My GM shmups - Last Chance,MEGATANK, Flying V, XYX, ZPF

[renardqueenston]

My thoughts exactly! If it weren't so easy to break those things, a slightly more 'authentic' presentation might be worth the extra expense involved.

Oh! Anyone remember those cd-sized clamshell cases AOL discs used to come in? That would also work really well, assuming you can even find them out there.

In any case, I've already eyed up some clear DVD ones on Amazon. Just have to wait for the bad news from my friend (printing/CD pressing costs) to know if this'll even be feasible at all. >_>

CD pressing is cheap for short runs. you can get around 100 discs with full color printing and data pressed for around $150 from most places.

http://www.cdpostershop.com/ i went through these guys last year with great results and turnaround time, if other options are too expensive.

[S20-TBL]

I just had a quick thought, but please excuse me if this sounds naive. What if you also tried selling one or two of those games online? Perhaps $7 apiece would hit the spot (Big Fish sells their point-and-clicks for exactly that amount). Dunno if you'll try any software registration gimmick though, but you could always release a 3-level demo and keep the full version for sale instead of using some form of DRM.

[raigon50]

Actually, Selling some on the web isn't a bad idea, but you'll have to set up paypal or whatever. It's something to look into.

[Rozyrg]

@renardqueenston: Cool! Thanks for the info, I'll have to look into that.

Yeah, the 3-level demo vs. a 'full' version thing is a definite possibility.
I already have some funny ideas for the 'register me!' screen, too. I'm not opposed to just selling it online; but I'd rather have something else in there to make it feel more worth the money... and preferably something that couldn't simply be duplicated with a few mouse clicks.

I'm still holding out for some left field inspiration for a good hook/feature that could be exclusive to the full version, though. A Boss Rush would be easy enough; but that's pretty standard stuff. A 2player (or maybe a dual-play) mode crossed my mind; but I'm not sure it'd be worth the trouble... for me or anyone trying to actually play it that way. <_<

[raigon50]

A 2player (or maybe a dual-play) mode crossed my mind; but I'm not sure it'd be worth the trouble... for me or anyone trying to actually play it that way. <_<

I think 2 players would be kinda difficult for this game. To fast paced.
Perhaps a mode that plays like the game normally would, but instead of losing a life in a collision, you lose a life if an enemy makes it past you without blowing up. I'm all for a boss rush though. Sounds good.

[S20-TBL]

I'm not opposed to just selling it online; but I'd rather have something else in there to make it feel more worth the money... and preferably something that couldn't simply be duplicated with a few mouse clicks.

This is what I was thinking about when I was analyzing the scenario last night. Your primary competitor online will be games on Kongregate and stuff like Artix Entertainment. If one were to sell an online game he would have to consider that flash games, knowingly or not, are approaching PC gaming by grabbing customers from the bottom tier and then moving on upward by improving their output. They are doing it very well, and often for free.

If ZPF or any other game will be sold online you will have to consider implementing premium content that flash games can't simply duplicate "with a few mouse clicks" as you said. My suggestion would really be to go for some form of multiplayer. Most non-shmuppers I've met keep asking for multiplayer whenever they come across a shmup and show signs of interest in it--which they often do, as I've found out!

The trouble with multiplayer, however, would be implementation--what kind of multiplayer support (local or online), what types of multiplayer design (simultaneous play, alternating, or competitive a la Twinkle Star Sprites) and rebalancing. But I believe in the end it will be more than worth it.

[Rozyrg]

That's why I was thinking about it... every time I show a particular friend of mine a cool new/old shooter I've found, he always goes "is it two player?" and acts disappointed if it isn't, like it should be an automatic prerequisite for the genre. Whenever it actually is, he'll just go "cool!" and not play it with me anyways. I was showing him Flying Hamster this saturday and we went through the routine again...lol.

Digging through some of the code again, I don't think it'd be *too* hard to implement - well, locally at least, I have to admit I know absolutely zilch about online stuff with GM. Testing it might get a bit wacky, though. Still, wouldn't limitations on simultaneous key presses be an issue?

I did actually do a quick test just to see what having two ships on the screen blasting away would be like and it seems to work fairly well (aside from the cramped layout on this teeny keyboard); but I have to agree with Raigon that ZPF is probably a bit too fast paced for it. I'm actually hoping to get most of this squared away (art, print materials, page layouts, new demo) for XYX before I get back to work on that again. That's one reason time is not an issue as far as the music is concerned.

[S20-TBL]

That's why I was thinking about it... every time I show a particular friend of mine a cool new/old shooter I've found, he always goes "is it two player?" and acts disappointed if it isn't, like it should be an automatic prerequisite for the genre. Whenever it actually is, he'll just go "cool!" and not play it with me anyways. I was showing him Flying Hamster this saturday and we went through the routine again...lol.

Lol. A friend of mine from my old workplace also did the same, except he did look for people to play them with (guess he got tired of playing StellaVanity alone). Once he saw me playing Super Mario Bros. X and he went "Hey, is that 2-player?" I told him yeah, and he asked for a copy so he and his wife could play it. The next morning I asked him how it went, and he said "It was fun, but we never got to play together. The missus wanted to do solo runs."

Digging through some of the code again, I don't think it'd be *too* hard to implement - well, locally at least, I have to admit I know absolutely zilch about online stuff with GM. Testing it might get a bit wacky, though. Still, wouldn't limitations on simultaneous key presses be an issue?

Yup, it will be depending on the keyboard. BPzeBanshee brought up keyboard rollover with me early on, so how I tackled this was to make sure to include alternative control setups for my game (mouse and gamepad/joystick), with a flag to check if one player has keyboard control on. If he does the game automatically sets the other player's control to mouse so no funky issues spring up. Joysticks still had to be manually enabled in the settings though, so I might change that to automatically detect if joysticks are plugged in or not (GM's gamepad support is awfully lacking, but it's got enough basic functions).

As for online--I have no idea either. I don't know how efficient GM's online capabilities are, but I do remember there being a PDF tutorial for online implementation on the main YoYo Games website.

That said, whether or not multiplayer looks to be feasible or impossible because of any number of conditions, I'd say to also go with raigon's suggestion and do alternative game modes, hidden characters and levels, etc. Alluro's Xeno Fighters has Conquest Mode where you can play each stage individually as you unlock them in the main game mode. Most people nowadays don't have much time to sit down and play, so a mode like that would be a plus to them (I play Conquest more than I play Arcade mode myself--going through 10+ stages can be a chore).

[raigon50]

About the music. Can you possibly give me a better example of what sound you want? I know Blazeon, but I want to know what sort of style. I used to have a bunch of pxtone sound samples a long time ago, but not anymore. I can try to hunt them down again if I need (actually, I kinda want to mess with them anyways...)

[BPzeBanshee]

Regarding online play in GM, its possible but judging on when I last investigated it, is difficult to implement.
To begin with, GM's default online functions (I think its MPlay or NetPlay, something similar) are generally considered complete *shit* by most threads Ive read. There's official tutorials for it though.
Theres some external DLLs out there too, the better ones Ive seen work well in their examples but look very difficult to understand and are generally discontinued by the author. I know of a Online RPG example that uses 39dll I think, Id upload it but Im on the Wii and there's a cyclone nearby. :/
EDIT: There's actually quite a few online engines around, so I can't imagine you'd be lacking in resource information by doing a search through Yoyogames. Most of the ones I found are as old as GM6 but that shouldnt matter.

[Rozyrg]

About the music. Can you possibly give me a better example of what sound you want? I know Blazeon, but I want to know what sort of style. I used to have a bunch of pxtone sound samples a long time ago, but not anymore. I can try to hunt them down again if I need (actually, I kinda want to mess with them anyways...)

Sure. These are just some random favorites, but I think they all have the same kind of 'heart', if that makes any sense.

Raiden
Raiden/Raiden Trad
Raiden II
Raiden II
Outzone
Fire Shark
Twin Cobra
Truxton II
Soldier Blade

As for specific sound characteristics, I'm mainly concerned about the bass... I'd want either a nice jagged synth bass (think Genesis), or something like the funky (but still synthy) slap style you hear on a lot of SNES games. Everything else can pretty much be all over the board; but I'd still steer away from anything overly 'retro' sounding (meaning 8-bit and earlier). I'd rather the sound be a little out of place and sound like this or this than a NES game. (Although I know stuff like that can hardly be made on short notice...lol)

[renardqueenston]

I'm still holding out for some left field inspiration for a good hook/feature that could be exclusive to the full version, though. A Boss Rush would be easy enough; but that's pretty standard stuff. A 2player (or maybe a dual-play) mode crossed my mind; but I'm not sure it'd be worth the trouble... for me or anyone trying to actually play it that way. <_<

bonus ships, man. bonus ships! a second loop? a true last boss (or a secret last boss if you already have a TLB planned)? all sorts of possibilities you could sneak in there and just play around with. content content content!

[raigon50]

nice jagged synth bass (think Genesis)

Now THAT I know I can do. I've made a few Mega Drive-esqu songs before, so the bass is no problem. However, I'm not to good with making melodies. I can make good ones, but often times I lack the patients to do so. But I'll do it.

bonus ships, man. bonus ships! a second loop? a true last boss (or a secret last boss if you already have a TLB planned)? all sorts of possibilities you could sneak in there and just play around with. content content content!

I'd like to see a True Last Boss. Gotta make it insane though.
I had an idea for a shmup some time ago that you might consider using for ZPF. Concerning bombs, it bares the same idea as Daioh.
Each weapon has a different bomb. The strength of the bomb increases when you collect points (or in this case, coins.) When a bomb is used, the power resets (you keep the points though). The bombs can't be instant-kill bombs though, so the idea would be difficult to do without rewriting the code for the entire bomb system. A simplified version may work though.

[Rozyrg]

@raigon: Yeah, just give it a shot and we'll see what happens. No rush, as always.

I'll definitely consider doing a TLB, I didn't want to think about it before because of how slow I am to get around to making a boss, much less actually building it. The prospect of making one that can be a nigh unbeatable, unfair SOB is certainly intriguing, though. >_>

Speaking of bosses...

A few more tweaks and fixes and a new demo will be ready to go. It's not going to be the demo by any means, I'd like to get some feedback on the added difficulty settings for one thing.

This talk about extra content has already given me some ideas for some extra modes.. hopefully I'll have time to put them in.

[renardqueenston]

to be perfectly honest, i love XYX a lot (a lot lot), so i'm just gonna put this out there!

@raigon i produce music full-time and work with a lot of FM synthesis, if you and gryzor are interested, i might be up for helping. either of you guys shoot me a PM if you're interested in a little bit of assistance i can't promise full-time assistance but if you need some melody help here and there i'm willing to give things a shot.

[S20-TBL]

A bit off-topic, sorry...

Rozyrg, I tried test-implementing your ZPF beam code as I understood it and the scaling worked nicely, though it did do funky things just as you warned me; e.g. when I got too close to the edge of the screen, the beam object destroyed itself much quicker than my timeline and the object speed could allow for it to linger, resulting in the beam flickering. To shoot towards the right, I used view_wview for scaling the object.

What I can't wrap my head around right now is how I would be able to duplicate the same scaling effect towards the left side of the screen, since my game allows for bi-directional shooting. Using view_xview (the left side of the viewport), what happens is that the beam still scales towards the right side, but when I move left it shrinks down until it's invisible.

EDIT: Hmm, I picked up an idea from R-Type Leo. I noticed that the Red Beam weapon had an orb at the very tip of the laser. Basically the game draws the beam graphic from the ship to the orb tip, which then functioned as the collision object that determined where the laser would end. After looking at the GameCave Effects Engine (you might be able to use this too, BTW--it's totally free, though you still need to contact the creators for permission to use the engine in your game), I realized their laser object also works in the same manner as the Red Beam in R-Type Leo.

[SenpaiSamaKun]

I'm out the loop on the technical side, but concerning a extra/true boss, how about a true final level on the second loop/extra mode to go with it?

To take a page from a certain martian invasion from the high point of a certain series , a twist in the game layout causes a constant barrage of mini-bosses and gimmick sessions like inferior clones, obstacle courses, and a review of the previous boss patterns.

[renardqueenston]

I'm out the loop on the technical side, but concerning a extra/true boss, how about a true final level on the second loop/extra mode to go with it?

To take a page from a certain martian invasion from the high point of a certain series , a twist in the game layout causes a constant barrage of mini-bosses and gimmick sessions like inferior clones, obstacle courses, and a review of the previous boss patterns.

a true final level is a great idea, it really entices the player to actually play the second loop a second loop that seriously changes enemy patterns (or some background colors to spice things) would also be great, since i find second loops usually feel like they just drag on and on. i think there are others that could agree with that

[BPzeBanshee]

A bit off-topic, sorry...

Rozyrg, I tried test-implementing your ZPF beam code as I understood it and the scaling worked nicely, though it did do funky things just as you warned me; e.g. when I got too close to the edge of the screen, the beam object destroyed itself much quicker than my timeline and the object speed could allow for it to linger, resulting in the beam flickering. To shoot towards the right, I used view_wview for scaling the object.

What I can't wrap my head around right now is how I would be able to duplicate the same scaling effect towards the left side of the screen, since my game allows for bi-directional shooting. Using view_xview (the left side of the viewport), what happens is that the beam still scales towards the right side, but when I move left it shrinks down until it's invisible.

EDIT: Hmm, I picked up an idea from R-Type Leo. I noticed that the Red Beam weapon had an orb at the very tip of the laser. Basically the game draws the beam graphic from the ship to the orb tip, which then functioned as the collision object that determined where the laser would end. After looking at the GameCave Effects Engine (you might be able to use this too, BTW--it's totally free, though you still need to contact the creators for permission to use the engine in your game), I realized their laser object also works in the same manner as the Red Beam in R-Type Leo.

Excellent find regarding the beams, I really had no clue when it came down to making a proper beam. I may very well sign up to Yoyogames and ask them for permission for implementation in GMOSSE for a new ship if its not too complex. Currently the new ship I'm working on uses a beam for a bomber but uses a sprite the length of the vertical screen height to do so. Pretty crude method but works gameplay-wise.

[S20-TBL]

BPZeBanshee: No need to register on Yoyo Games, just download that package, open up the documentation PDF and check the authors' contact details near the very last page.

BTW, going back on topic, I don't know what these games are all about. Is there any background story / mythos behind XYX, Flying V and the other games, something explaining the worlds they take place in (e.g. the different-themed levels in ZPF)?

EDIT: Oh blast. My mind is so slow. Rozyrg's beam works the same way as the R-Type Leo beam. XD

[raigon50]

i produce music

*sarcastically* I would have NEVER guessed. lol


Anyway, I am all for this, however, I haven't started on music for any other game, and I just finished the victory jingle, so probably not atm. Hopefully soon though.

[raigon50]

Oh yeah! Found those pxtone samples. I went ahead and made a sample song.
http://www.truploader.com/view/112106

[Rozyrg]

i might be up for helping. either of you guys shoot me a PM if you're interested in a little bit of assistance .

Awesome! *duly noted* Glad you like the game too!

Here's a peek at the 2p mode, btw:

I've got the most basic stuff down - 2p's key config, split scoring, respawning behavior with checkpoints and without (you don't go back to the last checkpoint unless both players have died); but I feel the important stuff won't get ironed out until I can trick someone into helping me here. >_>

BTW, going back on topic, I don't know what these games are all about. Is there any background story / mythos behind XYX, Flying V and the other games, something explaining the worlds they take place in (e.g. the different-themed levels in ZPF)?

Nope, not really.. well, not at least.
I am writing a cheesy little story for XYX's manual, though. It's basically just there to tie the game and all my previous attempts together (including my Blast Works stuff). I'll probably have some short bios for the pilots too. Expect glaring cliches and unoriginality galore; but I don't intend to take it all that seriously.


Another Blast Works baddie returns

All I have now is that the enemy is an alien lifeform of unknown origin and composition that consumes technology and can easily integrate it into an attacking force. It/they can also consume biological life; but this is mostly for replenishing energy.. and as it encroaches further into occupied space, expanding it's forces, it's energy needs grow exponentially.

So yeah, as of now, they're basically a rip-off of the Borg or that weird alien crystal thing from Raiden. >_>

Right now, ZPF is just a hodgepodge.. "oh, that would be cool for a level" being as far as I've thought it through. I've used about the same amount of ideas from my old levels in it, though, so incorporating it into the story shouldn't be hard (although it probably will be completely ridiculous.) Level 1 is basically a remix of Gorygyx, boss and all... although it originally didn't have the Alien type baddies.

[Rozyrg]

Oh yeah! Found those pxtone samples. I went ahead and made a sample song.
http://www.truploader.com/view/112106

Wow... the gravelly bass synth in there is just fantastic.

[S20-TBL]

Righteous. Looks like you're in business.

Re: extra content, here's some suggestions I thought up:

1) Time Attack mode. Destroy bosses in the fastest time.
2) Caravan-style Survival Score Attack mode. See how long you can last against increasingly harder waves of enemies on one life.
3) Metal Slug-style "pinpoint attack" mode. Challenge each level individually for the highest scores.
4) Hidden midbosses a la Dai Fukkatsu. Depending on your performance, tough midbosses can appear at certain points in a level. Destroying them would award you a very generous amount of points.

EDIT: Re: ZPF, I thought up of something rather oddball, but I think it could work. It sounds a bit like Skyknight's storyline for Xeno Fighters though, in hindsight. Here goes:

Ko, the pilot of Gold and the pilot of a stolen enemy craft nicknamed "Bat" are among a fleet of starfighters sent to challenge a hostile alien invader bent on colonizing Earth. However, the aliens have managed to infiltrate the Earth fleet's central power generation facilities on Mars. After defeating the commander of the unit that infiltrated the power station, strange things began occurring; the enemy was actually planning to use the facility to power a singularity unit, which would transform the Sun into a neutron star in order to make the Solar System habitable for their kind. However, the destruction of the power station's core caused a chain reaction that resulted in the creation of a time warp!

This warp has caused anomalies throughout history, from medieval times up to the near future, and now the enemy is also planning to launch full-scale invasions in the past as revenge for what Earth has done! It's up to you and your newfound allies: Sword Knight, a warrior-mage from the medieval period and the pilot of Gladius, Earth's first production starfighter model, from each previous generation to challenge the alien invaders and save humanity from extinction! Stage 1 would be you trying to re-enter the infested alien hive in the central power generator and entering the portal to the past, and the final level would warp you back to BEFORE Stage 1, so you can prevent the takeover of the Martian facilities before the Time Warp incident.

Man, that was weird. You could make enemies enter the screen by warping in from portals, and you could include a feature that, depending on player performance, would cause you to warp to special, harder levels instead of having to go through the usual stage progression. However, unlike XFR's linear stage progression, those tougher levels would be alternate levels. You could also probably include a hidden stage-skip feature like in the original Gradius, which warped you one level ahead of where you were supposed to go next.

[S20-TBL]

Sorry for the extra post, but I found the clamshell case:

http://www.bisondisc.com/blank-media/bl ... pplies.htm

We had them before and they're quite compact, great for storage, but I don't think that would allow you to pack in a manual and/or artbook with its size. Regular DVD cases would be much better for packaging with extras.

Any news on those transparent cases BTW?

[Rozyrg]

I'm a pretty big fan of the Soldier series, so I'd honestly love to do a Caravan mode. That's a definite consideration; but I don't know if I'll have the time to do it right, so it might just have to wait. Right now it's looking like it'll be:

1. Boss Rush - (self explanatory)
2. Wave Attack - Destroy endless waves that increase in score value and aggressiveness as you do better.
3. Tank Smash - Just kill lots and lots of tanks. Sounds boring, I know; but it's what I love doing the most in classics like Fire Shark, so I'd be making this mode strictly for me...lol. Of course there will be some hyper aggressive varieties not in the main game, too.

I'm still considering the TLB, to. I'm thinking you'll get to him by either getting a certain number of Perfect Clears (which will vary based on the difficulty setting) or reaching the end of the second loop; but I'm open to ideas.

Nice shot at the story, btw. Awhile back, I kept asking a few of my friends to help me with something similar; but got basically no response, so I definitely appreciate it. I'll let you know if I 'borrow' some of your ideas whenever I get to fleshing it out more.

As for progress on the 2p mode:

-2p fire button from the title screen initiates 2p mode

-You can set both ships to 'autofire', allowing you to control both ships with only their respective directional keys (not bad at all for testing.) This works pretty good playing with a twin-stick gamepad, although you could just as easily set the triggers as the fire buttons.
- combos and wave completions are counted and totaled separate now. Waves are a bit harder to complete.. a player has to kill every enemy within a wave themselves for it to count, so I will probably make them worth 2x or 3x their current value.
- bonus jewels now give a set value rather than one based on the current combo. I might change it back to match the appropriate player's combo to encourage a little competitive deviousness, though.
- right now, continues are shared, with the losing player sitting it out until the other one's game is over. I'll probably change this for normal 2p play; but given that it's more convenient for playing dual style, it'll probably stay in one form or another.

@S20-TBL
Yeah, the DVD cases are looking like best option. I have looked high and low for the unique ones the AOL discs came in (think of a Nintendo DS case dimension wise) and all I can figure is they had them specially made for that purpose. I figure the only chance I'd have getting some is phoning a factory in China somewhere...lol.

I'm still waiting to hear back if my friend's printing connection can do DVD sized materials, as well as how much they would charge before I run out and buy a bunch of cases I might not end up using. The site suggested by renardqueenston (which only offers CD packaging at the moment) is still a possibility too.

[Rozyrg]

Worked on the logo some tonight.

[Udderdude]

Looks cool. Interesting that you went with a biological/horror style logo despite all of the in-game enemies being technology based.

[agustusx]

nice to see you still working man, good stuff.