Turn-based shmups.

[Drum]

So I really like Drain Storm: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment. ... rain_Storm
It is basically a cross between a roguelike and Robotron, and it is awesome.
It got me itching for more so I decided to do a Google search for 'turn-based shmup' and I got this:
http://gamejolt.com/freeware/games/stra ... hmup/1159/
This aspect of the genre is so little explored that one of two examples of the sub-genre is called 'turn-based shmup'.
I kind of liked it, but it's clearly just a concept.
Anybody know any other games like this?

[Treasurance]

R-Type Tactics?

[Drum]

R-Type Tactics?

Is (I am pretty sure) more of a strategy game with a shooter theme, like Cosmic/Paro Wars. There's also Gradius Arc, but I have no idea what that is - anybody know if it has Cosmic Wars-style gameplay? I'd really like to play a turn-based (we-go style) Gradius game. Is perfect - already has a tech tree!

I guess the question now becomes: how are strategy games with shooter themes different than turn-based shooters? We may need harrihaffi in here to clear this up. I'll go PM him.

[Despatche]

Games like Pocket Tanks, the Worms series, and Akantares come to mind.

[Ruldra]

Critical Mass is a nice turn-based arena shooter with strategy elements. But probably not what you're looking for.

[harrihaffi]

R-Type Tactics?

Is (I am pretty sure) more of a strategy game with a shooter theme, like Cosmic/Paro Wars. There's also Gradius Arc, but I have no idea what that is - anybody know if it has Cosmic Wars-style gameplay? I'd really like to play a turn-based (we-go style) Gradius game. Is perfect - already has a tech tree!

I guess the question now becomes: how are strategy games with shooter themes different than turn-based shooters? We may need harrihaffi in here to clear this up. I'll go PM him.

You called?
Turn-based shoter? Never really heard of the genre and I can't find any name of any game within that genre...Making it difficult to say anything about it. Maybe the diffrence is that you can control multiple ships/avatars in a turn based strategi game while you only control one ship/avatar in a turned-based shooter, but this is really just a guess and I really need to see what a turn-based shooter is before I even pretend to be sure about it's defintion. If there are any...
Inressting non the less...

MVHH

[captpain]

Let's remove this whole 'twitch skill' component from shmups, it's far past time. I hate how you have to like, have reflexes and stuff.

[Drum]

Let's remove this whole 'twitch skill' component from shmups, it's far past time. I hate how you have to like, have reflexes and stuff.

Sarcasm, I hope - the creeping turn-based shmup menace is a very real threat, aiming at the very heart of the genre and everything we hold dear. Sure, it's only a couple of games among thousands now, but how long before you load up Truxton II on MAME and find you have to roll a 20 sided dice just to move your ship? Turn-based gameplay very nearly totally consumed the strategy genre before Blizzard returned it to its former glory by inventing the passage of time.

[Blackbird]

Turn-based gameplay very nearly totally consumed the strategy genre before Blizzard returned it to its former glory by inventing the passage of time.

=P. Interesting perspective there. To me it seems like turn-based games have been eclipsed in popularity in the US by their real time counterparts for a quite a long time now. Maybe I'm just not old enough.

I'm rather fond of turn based games, actually. It's not that hard turn-based games don't exist - it's just a different type of challenge and a different skillset. Shooting games are more about reflexes and memorization, while strategy games are more about AI abuse and resource management, as a general rule.

[Drum]

Turn-based gameplay very nearly totally consumed the strategy genre before Blizzard returned it to its former glory by inventing the passage of time.

=P. Interesting perspective there. To me it seems like turn-based games have been eclipsed in popularity in the US by their real time counterparts for a quite a long time now. Maybe I'm just not old enough.

I can't tell if you're serious or out-smartassing me, so I'll just say that I was being a smartass: TBS were before RTSes (tho not actually all that much earlier videogame-wise), Blizzard did not invent the RTS (or time itself), and Truxton II is always going to be real-time (unless you have a really terrible PC) and captpain has nothing to worry about. Also, time manipulation mechanics are a proud tradition in shmups since Astro Blaster (and imma plug Chouji Meikyuu Legion's rewind feature here too) so a tbshmup isn't such a stretch really. A shmup with a button that makes everything temporarily turn-based or whatever would be pretty cool!

I do admit that this topic was started because only mostly out of genuine interest in the idea - I also figured the very notion would make somebody angry, so it had some troll value as well. Hi captpain!

[Heartwork]

You are quickly becoming one of my favourite posters on shmupsforum, Drum. That 4-D Warriors thread made me lol, and now this.

[EinhanderZwei]

Moonshine Runners - turn-based shmup + car combat

[Blackbird]

Oh, I can't believe I forgot to mention this before, since it's actually -relevant- to the topic. Has anyone here played Knights in the Nightmare for DS/PSP?

It's the best game I can think of in the emergent turn-based bullet hell genre, and an extremely fresh/innovatively designed game in a lot of ways... if you can wrap your head around it.

The gameplay goes something like this: You have an avatar, called the wisp, and a bunch of phantasmal knights on an isometric grid (somewhat reminiscent of Final Fantasy Tactics). Each "turn" is composed of an increment of time; I seem to recall it's about a minute. To attack, you must hover your wisp over the knight you want to attack with. In doing so, you consume time. However, enemies also continually spit bullets at you, so you must avoid the bullets while hovering over your knights. If you are hit, you take damage in the form of lost time. When time runs out, the turn is over. If you fail to complete the map objectives before all time/turns are exhausted, you lose.

Bosses can have pretty tricky shot patterns, approaching bullet hell glory.

[Drum]

Moonshine Runners - turn-based shmup + car combat

Interesting, just downloaded the demo but haven't played it yet.

In sorta the same vein is Car Wars, though that's a board game.

Blackbird: Knights in the Nightmare is awesome, but it is one of the most impenetrable games I've ever played. Any tips to help a noob get into it again? I've heard it's actually a good idea to *skip* the tuts.

Heartwork: Thanx! I was really proud of my 4-D Warriors thread. Probably my biggest system11 accomplishment yet.

I had an idea: I think I am gonna try a tool-assisted runthrough of Truxton II on hardest and fix it so it plays out turn-based. Is there a way I could map some frame-advance function to all the control keys so that pressing fire/moving makes everything proceed in frames? It will be like Truxton II: the roguelike! I think this might be a cool way to play Battle Garegga going for max rank. It certainly can't be worse than any other way to play Battle Garegga.

[Mischief Maker]

Blackbird: Knights in the Nightmare is awesome, but it is one of the most impenetrable games I've ever played. Any tips to help a noob get into it again? I've heard it's actually a good idea to *skip* the tuts.

I wrote a review of KitN for Caltrops a while ago that attempted to provide a clear explanation of the game for newbies. You may find it useful:

http://www.caltrops.com/review0058.php

[Blackbird]

Blackbird: Knights in the Nightmare is awesome, but it is one of the most impenetrable games I've ever played. Any tips to help a noob get into it again? I've heard it's actually a good idea to *skip* the tuts.

Let me get back to you on that. The game is rather complex, and I haven't played it in some time, so I could use a refresher myself. I will write a short guide/tutorial on the subject and then post it.

In the meantime, is there any point of the gameplay that you are specifically confused about? It would help if you could narrow it down, because there is a lot to talk about.

[Drum]

Blackbird: Knights in the Nightmare is awesome, but it is one of the most impenetrable games I've ever played. Any tips to help a noob get into it again? I've heard it's actually a good idea to *skip* the tuts.

I wrote a review of KitN for Caltrops a while ago that attempted to provide a clear explanation of the game for newbies. You may find it useful:

http://www.caltrops.com/review0058.php

I think that's where I read it's a good idea to skip the tutorials - awesome review.

Will start over and give it a proper playthrough. I was put off when I read there are a bunch of completely obscure and permanently missable secrets that can greatly affect the outcome of the game. That stuff just pisses me off in games that only crazy people play over and over (ie. JRPGs/SRPGs - it's aok in pure action games and roguelikes)

Blackbird: Tut sounds awesome. I hope it gets enough general interest to make the effort worth it, but I'm fearful that it won't - at least not here.
Honestly, it has been a while since I played KitN so I can't think of any specifics. A few general pointers and the benefit of the ritalin I just started on a couple of weeks ago should definitely help.

[Blackbird]

Don't worry - regardless of the interest level in said guide, it will still have value. I have found that writing a guide is an excellent way to improve your own knowledge. If you must fully explain the details of a game to someone else, then that provides an impetus to really sit down and figure out the math/metagame at a deeper level.

I can't speak for the part about secrets, though - my first playthrough was largely a learning experience. I was too busy wrapping my head around how to play the game to worry about stuff like that... I just barreled through it in the most direct and intuitive manner =P.

[Blackbird]

Wow, I just realized that Knights in the Nightmare doesn't have a complete walkthrough on gamefaqs. That's the first time I've ever seen that happen. There's -always- some hardcore nutter somewhere that knows the game inside and out.

I don't know how to feel about that. Should I applaud the game for it's complexity, or grimace that Sting made a game so amazingly inaccessible that no one understands it well enough to finish a guide =P?

[Mischief Maker]

Wow, I just realized that Knights in the Nightmare doesn't have a complete walkthrough on gamefaqs. That's the first time I've ever seen that happen. There's -always- some hardcore nutter somewhere that knows the game inside and out.

I don't know how to feel about that. Should I applaud the game for it's complexity, or grimace that Sting made a game so amazingly inaccessible that no one understands it well enough to finish a guide =P?

Don't panic. While there's a good amount of depth to the game, most of it is optional. You can race to the end credits in Easy mode without recruiting a single knight. Although you do get the worst ending that way.

Try Atlas' 4-part supplemental tutorial on Youtube to get the basics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWJSTpIouL4

[Blackbird]

Thanks for the thought, but I know how to play this game reasonably well. I've cleared the game on Normal before. I actually find Normal a bit easier than Easy, actually, because it is less difficult to open items like chests without insta-breaking them.

I was just commenting on how absurd it is that the game doesn't have a full walkthrough, when I've seen some -really- obscure games that have every detail of the metagame explained in full detail.

[Mischief Maker]

Thanks for the thought, but I know how to play this game reasonably well. I've cleared the game on Normal before. I actually find Normal a bit easier than Easy, actually, because it is less difficult to open items like chests without insta-breaking them.

I was just commenting on how absurd it is that the game doesn't have a full walkthrough, when I've seen some -really- obscure games that have every detail of the metagame explained in full detail.

Sorry, got you mixed up with the guy originally asking about the game.

[Drum]

Thanks for the thought, but I know how to play this game reasonably well. I've cleared the game on Normal before. I actually find Normal a bit easier than Easy, actually, because it is less difficult to open items like chests without insta-breaking them.

I was just commenting on how absurd it is that the game doesn't have a full walkthrough, when I've seen some -really- obscure games that have every detail of the metagame explained in full detail.

Sorry, got you mixed up with the guy originally asking about the game.

I figured that's what happened. I'm gonna go watch those tut videos now.


Another strategy/shooter hybrid (barely turn-based I guess, just trying to keep the thread going): Space Seeker (Taito, arcade, 1981). You are a little pixel and you can go around a world map engaging mother ships and their fighter cronies before they mess up your home base. Touch a mother ship and you go into a Scramble-like level, touch a fighter an it switches to a first person shooting gallery view.

[Andi]

Another strategy/shooter hybrid (barely turn-based I guess, just trying to keep the thread going): Space Seeker (Taito, arcade, 1981). You are a little pixel and you can go around a world map engaging mother ships and their fighter cronies before they mess up your home base. Touch a mother ship and you go into a Scramble-like level, touch a fighter an it switches to a first person shooting gallery view.

There's also Star Control (or better yet, Star Control 2) which has very interesting free roaming arcade based battles (ala Space War) but is primarily a strategy game.

On another forum I post at, someone recently made a strategy/trading game with a very shmup inspired battle system. Granted, the battles use mouse control and is alternately boring/frustrating but the idea is fine. It's in beta in any case: http://www.sapientgames.com/games/farscape/

[Blackbird]

An update: I've added the promised guide to Knights in the Nightmare to the Off Topic section of the forums. Check it out and let me know if you find it helpful!

Hopefully it clarifies the gameplay a bit for you.

[Mischief Maker]

Critical Mass is a nice turn-based arena shooter with strategy elements. But probably not what you're looking for.

Critical Mass is indeed a fantastic game, but I wouldn't call it an Arena shooter. More like a turn-based top gun flight simulator. I don't know how I would have ever figured out what the "right" time was to fire a missile and have it hit if I hadn't logged all those hours with Ace Combat. Awesome game, I just wish I could have the AI use my custom-designed ships.