Famitsu scoring and erotic pig girls (from MMP/PS thread)

[Elixir]

Ocarina of Time has definitely not stood the test of time, which immediately makes it not worth a perfect score.

Wasn't it reviewed at the time though?

[dunpeal2064]

Ocarina of Time has definitely not stood the test of time, which immediately makes it not worth a perfect score.

Wasn't it reviewed at the time though?

Yeah, I don't think they took aging into consideration. I mean, it was early 3D, of course it got dated. Also, apologies for even opening the can of worms that is the Zelda debate. It is kind of pointless.

So, sorry if this has been asked before, but what would be the place to order this in the states? The only place I know of is Play-Asia

[MachineAres 1CC]

Ocarina of Time has definitely not stood the test of time, which immediately makes it not worth a perfect score.

Wasn't it reviewed at the time though?

I imagine so, but I was just speaking from my personal and current point of view, as in if someone were to review it today, it wouldn't be so great. I wasn't saying they should've incorporated how well the game stood the test of time into the original review, since that is literally impossible, aside from not being proper, per se. On the same token, if someone were to review the game today, they shouldn't write the review using all of their experiences they had with the game back when it came out, as it just creates delusions on grandeur and nostalgia, which make reviews pretty terrible and essentially equate them to an editorial piece instead of an informative review.

Perfect scores honestly probably shouldn't even exist if they're taking the review seriously. Even a 99% or 9.9 would be much more appropriate because every game has its flaws here and there. Ocarina had a number of them, for instance, like framerate issues here and there, as nearly every N64 game had. If the game was so "perfect", by definition of the word, why would it have framerate issues? Couldn't the developers have worked this out?

Also, this discussion belongs elsewhere.

[Paradigm]

Perfect scores honestly probably shouldn't even exist if they're taking the review seriously. Even a 99% or 9.9 would be much more appropriate because every game has its flaws here and there.

I disagree. If 10/10 is strictly reserved for a 'perfect' game, then you may as well rate out of 9 instead because such a thing will never exist. 10/10 doesn't have to mean the game's flawless, just that it gets the highest possible recommendation.

[Skykid]

Perfect scores honestly probably shouldn't even exist if they're taking the review seriously. Even a 99% or 9.9 would be much more appropriate because every game has its flaws here and there.

I disagree. If 10/10 is strictly reserved for a 'perfect' game, then you may as well rate out of 9 instead because such a thing will never exist. 10/10 doesn't have to mean the game's flawless, just that it gets the highest possible recommendation.

Agree and disagree. 10/10 does suggest a perfect game and no such thing exists. Personally I considered a 10 to be a game that was and remains a redefining moment in gaming history that can be appreciated across a broad spectrum, and one that will always be remembered as such.

I could count on one hand the amount of games worthy of that kind of distinction, as opposed to the one a week modern reviewing politics seem to churn out.

[DocHauser]

Taking marks off Zelda because of minor framerate issues seems a bit petty. I don't think reviewers look at a story-oriented adventure game like Zelda in that sort of way, and I'm not sure they should. It'd be like a movie reviewer criticising Seven Samurai because of a continuity error. Unless it's something that really spoils the viewer/gamer's enjoyment of the product, then it's not really an issue.

[Skykid]

Taking marks off Zelda because of minor framerate issues seems a bit petty. I don't think reviewers look at a story-oriented adventure game like Zelda in that sort of way, and I'm not sure they should. It'd be like a movie reviewer criticising Seven Samurai because of a continuity error. Unless it's something that really spoils the viewer/gamer's enjoyment of the product, then it's not really an issue.

Good point well made.

I've never had a problem with superfluous graphical issues as long as the game is good enough. Ocarina is still a masterstroke of game design that no amount of aged graphics or controls are going to change.

[NzzpNzzp]

If they made an Ocarina of Time remake with a camera that works properly/a better inventory system/combat that wasn't just spinning the stick in a circle spamming B most of the time/no unskippable cutscenes every two minutes, would that be worth 11/10? Serious question!

[mesh control]

chub shooting = Zelda

[Paradigm]

10/10 does suggest a perfect game

I don't see why it has to. Say you handed in an essay as a piece of coursework and got an A+ grade, you achieved the top mark but that doesn't necessarily mean the essay was perfect and couldn't be bettered in any way.

Where do you stand on 5/5? Does that also denote a perfect game to you? It doesn't to me. I'd say the scale goes something like: terrible, poor, average, good, excellent. I don't see why doubling it would drastically change anything.

I know this is off topic, but all this will get buried soon anyway once the game gets released.

[Skykid]

Where do you stand on 5/5?

In exactly the same place. It's just the top end of a different numerical scale.

[Paradigm]

Where do you stand on 5/5?

In exactly the same place. It's just the top end of a different numerical scale.

My point exactly and the lower you go the more ridiculous it seems. If we were rating games out of 2 (1 for a bad game, 2 for a good one), by your logic, every game would score 1 because otherwise it would be awarded the top score and would therefore have to be a perfect game. That's downright silly, especially coming from someone who writes reviews himself (albeit for Lovefilm).

[dunpeal2064]

chub shooting > Zelda

[Skykid]

Where do you stand on 5/5?

In exactly the same place. It's just the top end of a different numerical scale.

My point exactly and the lower you go the more ridiculous it seems. If we were rating games out of 2 (1 for a bad game, 2 for a good one), by your logic, every game would score 1 because otherwise it would be awarded the top score and would therefore have to be a perfect game. That's downright silly, especially coming from someone who writes reviews himself (albeit for Lovefilm).

I don't think this is an argument that makes much sense dude. I already clarified what I consider on a scale of one to ten that a 10 would represent. It's a personal opinion that only a few true tens exist, and it's not a number that's reserved for every 'satisfying' experience that comes along.
By that note I have to admit some success on Famitsu's part. In all their years they've only award 14 perfect scores, whereas GamesTM and Edge have probably given 14 out in the last twelve months.

Ultimately it's a matter of taste, I just prefer the idea of the 'highest possible score' being representative of something genuinely groundbreaking.

Hope that makes sense.

[DocHauser]

Edge has awarded just thirteen 10/10 scores since it was first published over 17 years ago. So I don't think it's any worse than Famitsu in that respect. From 1993 to 2003 there were only four 10/10 ratings. Since 2004 there have been nine, which is actually a fairly similar amount to Famitsu.

Games TM have given twelve 10/10 scores since 2002.

[Skykid]

Edge has awarded just thirteen 10/10 scores since it was first published over 17 years ago. So I don't think it's any worse than Famitsu in that respect. From 1993 to 2003 there were only four 10/10 ratings. Since 2004 there have been nine, which is actually a fairly similar amount to Famitsu.

Games TM have given twelve 10/10 scores since 2002.

Ah, ok, that ain't so bad. At least it seems the chaps are at least respecting the big one zero.

EDIT: Now you've piqued my interest I wanna know who's given out the most perfect scores, any chance of getting some stats on that?

[DocHauser]

Hmm, there are a lot of magazines, though, so there'd be plenty of competition, more so if you include websites as well. My guess would be one of the 'Official' magazines. They tend to be slightly more generous...

[Dale]

Why would anyone on this forum want to defend or say anything remotely good about a mass published magazine? Fuck EGM, Fuck Famitsu, Fuck whatever that Edge shit you have in Europe is, fuck everything else, g'day.

[RNGmaster]

Why would anyone on this forum want to defend or say anything remotely good about a mass published magazine? Fuck EGM, Fuck Famitsu, Fuck whatever that Edge shit you have in Europe is, fuck everything else, g'day.

Because the fact that they don't always understand us doesn't mean we shouldn't even try to give them a chance. Despite the fact that no shmup has scored over 6/10 (besides Ikaruga, derp), I still love opening a new issue of GameInformer, because I still enjoy mainstream games at times, don't want to stay out of the loop, and want something with more permanency and collector's value than a Destructoid post (and less Jim Sterling, for that matter).

[Dale]

Despite the fact that no shmup has scored over 6/10 (besides Ikaruga, derp),


Hmm

Its good that you have faith but from what I see in 2011 after we've been dealing with dumbasses saying the same things about shmups in this year from the mid-nineties I don't think things are ever going to change with them. Some might smarten up but the whole industry has been free-falling in this direction for too long. I actually enjoy Mainstream games too I've been playing a lot of Saints Row 2 a matter a fact. But these publications don't even reveiw mordern games very well their is always a feeling of bias and not looking at all the details and being unfair to games for aesthetic reasons(or being paid to like something better). Unless I see a magizine talk about scoring and a Cave shmup soon and an actual appreciation for the intensity that 2-D games offer that 3-D ones can't, I don't think we'll ever see the proper appreciation for the genre that I only find on this forum(nowhere else online really).

[DocHauser]

Edge is probably more 'arty' than mainstream. It can be a bit pretentious at times, but they do give shmups more coverage than the average mainstream magazine. For example, on shmups.com there's an archived review from Edge in 1993, of Tatsujin 2 on the FM Towns Marty. That would have been pretty obscure in the UK back then (it must have been a Japanese import). It got 8/10 and one of the complaints was that 'it gives you infinite continues'. So maybe they do understand us sometimes...

[supergrafx77]

Fuck EGM, Fuck Famitsu, Fuck whatever that Edge shit you have in Europe is, fuck everything else, g'day.

[DocHauser]

Ah, there's too much hate going around. Live and let live I say. In any case, the term 'shmup' originated in a mainstream magazine (Zzap64) so where would this site be without it? <head explodes>

[bcass]

Seems a bit dumb to be slating Edge, of all magazines, given how they've been universally positive about all of Cave's ports over the years. Sounds like the kind of ignorant elitist nonsense that has contributed to making the genre so inaccessible to the mainstream.

[Dale]

A doubt they could be that much better. What kind of scores have they given shmups in the past 5 years? Probably no perfect scores I'm assuming. I've never heard of any magazine giving a real hardcore 2-d action game a perfect score(ever probably).

[bcass]

I doubt even most people round here would say there's been a perfect shmup, never mind what some magazine thinks. I've been playing shmups since the early 80s and there isn't a single shmup I've ever played that I would score 10. All the Cave scores in Edge have been above average (7s and 8s out of 10 IIRC). Besides, Edge tend to give 10s to genre-defining titles. When was the last time you played a shmup that was genre-defining?

[Dale]

Genre-defining? You sure you don't work for a mainstream game publication?

Their is an abundance of shmups I'd give a 10 score based off the quality of gameplay, scoring, collision, uniqueness, scoring and balance of challenge. Why are you on a forum dedicated to a genre you don't even think has an example of a 9/10? You'd probably give a Final Fantasy game or a Zelda game a 10 score but no game in one gamings oldest genres a 9 out of 10? I guess you just casually enjoy shmups which is fine but you shouldn't be able to say whats acceptable for a magazine to say regarding a genre you only have a passing interest in. I love this genre and when magazines only give just above average scores to shmups or completely shitty scores, that's killing the genre I love, because sales figures of games are directly tied into the scores that big gaming media outlets give them. The reason DS2 sold more then any other Cave shmup is for that exact reason Famitsu gave it the highest score, 7,s and 6,s out of 10 don't move many units nowadays. If Edge really had any love for this genre or any significant respect for it they would stick their neck out for a 10/10 on a lesser known shmup. Even if they don't really think its a 10 I could list enough reasons in a reveiw structure to give any almost any newer shmup a 10 out of 10 even if my heart wasn't in it. If they want to see this genre stay around and be remotely prominent they need to stick their neck out with a 10, so more people will buy and enjoy these games who normally wouldn't. I know that their is journalistic integrity but that concept is wasted on gamers. They don't have much in the way of their own opinions, a game that they are told to like is one they'll buy, not all will like the game but letting a perfect score go to Espgaluda2 would allow more people to enjoy and get into the genre then normal. Most movie goers will avidly hate something no matter how many critics rant about how good the movie is. Gamers opinions generally go with gaming critics. Which may be good in way because you don't have the gaming equivalent of Transformers2's sale's figures but at the same time its just a different evil really.

[brentsg]

Someone should start a thread about MMP and Pink Sweets. I heard it's coming out for Xbox.

[dunpeal2064]

Someone should start a thread about MMP and Pink Sweets. I heard it's coming out for Xbox.

Time for Skykid to insert another gorgeous shot of our lovely swine ladies

[Drum]

Ocarina of Time has definitely not stood the test of time, which immediately makes it not worth a perfect score.

Wasn't it reviewed at the time though?

I imagine so, but I was just speaking from my personal and current point of view, as in if someone were to review it today, it wouldn't be so great. I wasn't saying they should've incorporated how well the game stood the test of time into the original review, since that is literally impossible, aside from not being proper, per se. On the same token, if someone were to review the game today, they shouldn't write the review using all of their experiences they had with the game back when it came out, as it just creates delusions on grandeur and nostalgia, which make reviews pretty terrible and essentially equate them to an editorial piece instead of an informative review.

Perfect scores honestly probably shouldn't even exist if they're taking the review seriously. Even a 99% or 9.9 would be much more appropriate because every game has its flaws here and there. Ocarina had a number of them, for instance, like framerate issues here and there, as nearly every N64 game had. If the game was so "perfect", by definition of the word, why would it have framerate issues? Couldn't the developers have worked this out?

Also, this discussion belongs elsewhere.

This discussion doesn't belong anywhere, it is completely terrible and your arguments are terrible. Please do not respond to this post. Thanks.