XRGB-3

[BuckoA51]

The problem with using a PAL Megadrive (or indeed most PAL consoles) at 60hz is that you're not outputting a true 60hz signal but some sort of halfway house between PAL60 and NTSC. Most TV's will deal with it ok but it can and does cause problems, particularly with quirky equipment like the XRBG3. The jailbars I believe can often be cured by using composite sync rather than sync on composite video. However, you may need to mod your Megadrive for this, see this link:-
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/sega/md-sync.htm

The audio hiss can be cured by routing the audio left right outside of the SCART cable and then joining them in again at the SCART end.

[Konsolkongen]

Using an European MegaDrive 1 instead of a Japanese one doesn't make a difference. The jailbars appear on all 3 or 4 MegaDrives I have had over the years, on my MegaDrive 2 the picture is perfect...
Fudoh's friend claims he has achieved a jailbar free picture from his MegaDrive 1. He's supposedly very busy atm. but Fudoh has promised me to ask him how he did this

[BuckoA51]

Nevertheless my comments regarding 60hz still stand, it can be problematic unless you use a genuine NTSC console.

Funny, I never had jailbars on either my Megadrive or Genesis, certainly not to any degree I'd consider a problem.

[Konsolkongen]

I have never experienced any differences between Eu and JAP consoles so I can't comment on that

[SGGG2]

Fudoh's friend claims he has achieved a jailbar free picture from his MegaDrive 1. He's supposedly very busy atm. but Fudoh has promised me to ask him how he did this

Be sure and let us all know. I'll be doing the csync mod as soon as the parts get here.

[Rock Man]

Ran into a minor prob on the XRGB-3 I was at my friends house tweaking most of the options on the device trying to get his Super Gun & PC Engine to recognize it. While there I think I may have hit something called "YUV" in one of the Screen+ RGB D-Terminal options and I lost the picture, couldn't get it back for the remainder of my stay there. When I got it home I tried to get the options to display at the very least but the picture isn't coming up at all. I tried switching to various inputs and resetting my XRGB-3 device, nothing.

Is there a way to get the menus back?

[BuckoA51]

Resetting the device also resets that setting, try resetting it again.

Here's the info regarding the difference between a Genesis at 60hz and a Mega Drive, unless I misunderstood the article if you are using composite sync then this will not affect you since it only affects the component video generation - http://www.zipplet.co.uk/index.php/cont ... cs_mdpal60

[Fudoh]

Is there a way to get the menus back?

doesn't reset change the FPGA setting to B0 ? Anyway, you can navigate into B0 blindly. Menu, 10x down, Enter, 3 x down, Enter, 1x Left, Enter. Switch off, switch on.

You usually get a picture in B0 much easier; after that you can start checking the options you might changed.

[Rock Man]

Is there a way to get the menus back?

doesn't reset change the FPGA setting to B0 ? Anyway, you can navigate into B0 blindly. Menu, 10x down, Enter, 3 x down, Enter, 1x Left, Enter. Switch off, switch on.

You usually get a picture in B0 much easier; after that you can start checking the options you might changed.

Dear BuckoA51 & Fudoh. I love you. It worked just the way you said even though the picture was all jacked up when I managed to retrieve it, lol (it's fixed now). Thank you for saving my babies life. XD

Btw Bucko, dunno if you were the one who mentioned it but I remember having a convo with someone about B1 Mode and how the quality shakes. I was told TV mileage may vary. I consider myself lucky as my picture manages to remain stable in B1 with the V-Sync option inverted. Sometimes though, if the device has freshly been powered on, it will show some sort of line break. It's hard to describe, say I'm playing Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Spider-Man's head is too loose, it's almost as though it's sliding off and back on while in his battle stance. There is a line cutting through his head all along the screen, I found that when I reset my XRGB though, it disappears.

Additionally the top screen of the health bars seem curved while playing Street Fighter III, weird. These problems don't kill the experience since the first problem can easily be corrected via reset and the 2nd isn't too bad an issue to begin with.

[BuckoA51]

Yeah the picture shakes like crazy on the VGA input on my TV, inverting the V-sync helps but it's still not adequate for me. Using the DVDO Edge or the Gefen with the XRGB3 eliminates the shaking pretty much altogether, however.

You can sometimes get rid of the curving by playing with the NTSC AFC level. Mess with this too much and you'll lose the picture altogether, but a reset will bring it back (or quickly change the AFC level again on the remote before it sticks).

[angryswede]

I recently bought an dell 2209wa and a xrgb-3. The screen have a rotatable stand allowing for easy tate'ing and the 16:10 is a good compromise between 16:9 and 4:3. I love the gear, but I have played pal for twenty years now and that shows in the collection.

So back to ebay it was. I now have a super famicom and a ntsc n64 on the shelf. The sfc have a way better picture than on my old crt imho,
and my old modded pal snes unit have an ok picture in pal60. But the n64 is horrible. The s/n is very high (ns2521…) so I use a generic
ebay s-video/composite cable. I get a bad moire pattern and washed out colours - both which I blame the s-video for.
The nes and playstation won't work at all with the screen - it just shows a garbled picture with (inverted?) colours and the screen
gives off a high pitched noise. Naturally I haven't tried this combination too many times.

I would really appreciate it if someone could answer the following for me:

1. I have a eu rgb scart switch and the micomsoft scart adapter. Can I connect both the pal snes scart and the official
sfc scart to the switch box with an eu scart leading from the box to the micomsoft adapter and finally into the xrgb? Or will this be harmful to the
xrgb considering the different cables used?

2. Can anyone recommend the best possible s-video cable for the n64?

3. In both Mario 64 and Diddy kong racing I sometimes get a black screen for a second when playing. It seems to happen
only in certain situations with high contrasts - like staring into the sun in Mario 64. A post on digitalpress mentioned that
it could be a problem with an unofficial expansion pack - but my unit still has the jumper pack installed. Everything is
of course cleaned.

Thanks!

[BuckoA51]

1) You can use regular SCART switches as long as the last link in the chain goes into the SCART to JP21 adaptor and then to the XRGB3. However, the XRGB3 is (suprise suprise) fussy about SCART switches too. If you're using just regular manual switches with push buttons it should be fine. I wrote a little bit about SCART switching on my site if you want to take a gander (link in my siggy).

2) If it's NTSC N64 why not have it RGB modded? Console passions conversions are known to work very well with XRGB3.

3) Does this happen if you hook directly to your TV too?

[Artemio]

Hey guys,

I've been working on a 240p test pattern suite that we can run in some of our consoles to help us evaluate and calibrate our equipment. You can find all the info about it, and binaries for Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and Dreamcast at: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite

All feedback is welcome, hope this tool is useful.

(I didn't start a new thread yet because I want it tested by some guys from this thread first, instead of posting a new thread.. I don't want to hijack this one either)

[BuckoA51]

Brilliant idea, I'll dig out my Dreamcast SCART cable and get testing!

Ok, this works really well, as expected both the DVDO Edge and the XRGB3 (B1) pass all tests, with the XRGB3 doing better on the Horizontal Stripes test. The lag test says I have virtually no lag (I like how it says "Excellent reflexes" too )

The only thing I did notice is that the last row or two of pixels on the grid and linearity tests are missing on my Dreamcast, even if I use the DVDO Edge overscan adjustment to try and get them back. I am however, using a PAL Dreamcast with a modchip.

Fantastic work, a very useful disc!

[Konsolkongen]

Wow! Sounds like a great tool! Unfortunately I don't have any spare CD-R's atm and don't own an EverDrive yet

[Artemio]

Brilliant idea, I'll dig out my Dreamcast SCART cable and get testing!

Ok, this works really well, as expected both the DVDO Edge and the XRGB3 (B1) pass all tests, with the XRGB3 doing better on the Horizontal Stripes test. The lag test says I have virtually no lag (I like how it says "Excellent reflexes" too )

The only thing I did notice is that the last row or two of pixels on the grid and linearity tests are missing on my Dreamcast, even if I use the DVDO Edge overscan adjustment to try and get them back. I am however, using a PAL Dreamcast with a modchip.

Fantastic work, a very useful disc!

Great you liked it =)

The lag test is still in testing.. I am not really convinced of it yet, but it does what it should so far.. of course teh evaluation is dependent on reflexes and/or rhythm more than anything.. the visual and audio cue are the more revealing aspects. A frame is around 16 ms, so that is the window of error it has anyway.

I am guessing you tested B1 mode, I have found interesting patterns on B0 mode with the checkerboard, horizontal and vertical stripes (yes, they are hidden in the horizontal pattern, just press Y).

Regarding the missing pixels, I've noticed this as well with some cables, if I remember correctly via VGA I get it to display fully.. can't recall via RGB.. will check tonight and post it.

Just added a Sonic background and sprite to the Drop Shadow test on the Genesis Version, will add it to the DC version as well later. it is the Buzz sprite, which has fake transparent wings.

If you have any suggestions, please let me know.

[angryswede]

1. Thanks for clarifying, one thing less to worry about!

2. If I understand correctly the high serial number on my unit indicates
that it don't have the needed vdc-nus chip. I'm currently looking to source the necessary components for the eviltim mod but it will take time to track and build that crazy thing. In the meantime I'm stuck with the s-video.

3. I don't have a tv any more After reading the xrgb wiki I suspect the that it's the known sync problem - will try if 220ohms helps later tonight. I'm still curios if anyone else have had the problem with a n64 though.

Also, the old ps1 I have is kitted with some mod chip enabling ntsc support, but when I boot it up the colours are wrong - the white background on the logo is blue for example. Anyone here successfully running ntsc disks on a modded pal ps1 with the xrgb-3?

[Fudoh]

the white background on the logo is blue for example. Anyone here successfully running ntsc disks on a modded pal ps1 with the xrgb-3?

works fine using RGB. Make sure the Scart input on the XRGB is set to RGBs and not YUV.

[BuckoA51]

Regarding the missing pixels, I've noticed this as well with some cables, if I remember correctly via VGA I get it to display fully.. can't recall via RGB.. will check tonight and post it.

I gave the 240p test disk a whirl on our Panasonic Plasma, Dreamcast to SCART directly to the TV. On that screen the image is not only cropped but off centre too! Obviously I think this is my Dreamcast rather than your software. In honesty I was surprised at how well the Panny coped with 240p, it failed the drop shadow test as you might imagine, but did ok on the lines and checker-board. In game mode the picture had some flickering (perhaps deinterlacing artefacts?) and most damningly would not let me switch out of widescreen, but that's all irrelevant I'm just rambling.

If you have any suggestions, please let me know.

Some things I thought of that might be useful:-

1) Simple stereo audio test, for completeness.
2) A screen that simply shows bright white, to check for sync problems on the XRGB3, also to test SCART cables for buzzing in the audio.
3) Somewhat harder to implement but, a scrolling background pattern like Metal Slug has, since this trips up deinterlacers quite often.

[HDgaming42]

Hey guys,

I've been working on a 240p test pattern suite that we can run in some of our consoles to help us evaluate and calibrate our equipment. You can find all the info about it, and binaries for Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and Dreamcast at: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite

All feedback is welcome, hope this tool is useful.

(I didn't start a new thread yet because I want it tested by some guys from this thread first, instead of posting a new thread.. I don't want to hijack this one either)

This is a dream come true! Thank you for putting this together!! I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but most certainly will. I will follow this with great interest! I have access to a waveform monitor and vectorscope, so being able to generate test patterns with known parameters is invaluable! I'd agree that a full white screen would be helpful too...

[Artemio]

I gave the 240p test disk a whirl on our Panasonic Plasma, Dreamcast to SCART directly to the TV. On that screen the image is not only cropped but off centre too! Obviously I think this is my Dreamcast rather than your software. In honesty I was surprised at how well the Panny coped with 240p, it failed the drop shadow test as you might imagine, but did ok on the lines and checker-board.

Did it also cope well when alternating the lines each frame (pressing the a button), if so I am impressed. Al Progressive sets I've used (via s-video and composite, I admit), simply can't display that correctly...

1) Simple stereo audio test, for completeness.
2) A screen that simply shows bright white, to check for sync problems on the XRGB3, also to test SCART cables for buzzing in the audio.
3) Somewhat harder to implement but, a scrolling background pattern like Metal Slug has, since this trips up deinterlacers quite often.

1) Sure, would making the stereo effect on the Lag Test alternate between speakers be ok? Or should a specific option be added (more on this later)
2) I can add that quite easily of course, We could add full black and maybe gray screens as well. These might go under it's own sequence of test patterns for video adjustment, or a submenu to group them if we think of others we might need or want. At this point I did all my research on playing around with these elements, and can implement stuff like that fast.
3) Sure, the only issue would be getting the background.. on the current 1.1 release I have a new one from sonic (In 640x480 when in that mode) maybe that would do... Maybe with variable speeds.

This is a dream come true! Thank you for putting this together!! I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but most certainly will. I will follow this with great interest! I have access to a waveform monitor and vectorscope, so being able to generate test patterns with known parameters is invaluable! I'd agree that a full white screen would be helpful too...

[trunk]

I tested a couple of setups using the genesis software using a Tototek Mega Cart.

genesis RGBS->game port xrgb-3->edge->tv Looks great and passes the various tests
genesis RGBS->RGBS to YUV transcoder->D1 port xrgb-3->edge->tv Looks good(not as good as gameport) and passes the various tests
genesis RGBS->RGBS to YUV transcoder->D1 port xrgb-3->slg3000->edge->tv Look good and passes the various tests
genesis RGBS->RGBS to YUV transcoder->HD Box Pro->slg3000->edge->tv Looks poor and fails all the tests. (especially dropshadow and scanline)

I learned that the HD Box Pro is crappy when taking 240p to vga. The thing is when fed 480p through PS2 on my sonic 1 test above it looked much better than actual hardware with a transcoder.

ps2 480P->HD box Pro->slg3000->edge->TV looks good but
genesis RGBS->RGBS to YUV transcoder->HD Box Pro->slg3000->edge->tv looks poor

I was trying to figure out if the RGBS to YUV transcoder was just poor but it turns out as tested above with the xrgb-3 it performed just fine.

I guess I have not found a satisfactory(and cheaper) alternative to the xrgb-3 yet.

So:

RGBS to YUV transcoder=good
slg3000=great
xrgb-3=great
HD Box Pro=bad(at 240P),ok(at 480P), untested(at 480i)

I have a cga2vga converter on the way and will add the SCART port to it with the sync circuit when it arrives. I know its an HD BOX clone but hopefully it will perform better than the transcoder and HD Box Pro combination.

Thanks for the awesome software Artemio!

[Rock Man]

Hey guys,

I've been working on a 240p test pattern suite that we can run in some of our consoles to help us evaluate and calibrate our equipment. You can find all the info about it, and binaries for Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and Dreamcast at: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite

All feedback is welcome, hope this tool is useful.

(I didn't start a new thread yet because I want it tested by some guys from this thread first, instead of posting a new thread.. I don't want to hijack this one either)

Pretty cool Artemio, I owe you many gratitudes for sharring such awesome programs for Sega's legacy consoles.

Someone stop me if you've heard this one before. Say you're operating on a CRT PC projection running a Super Gun. You recieve copies of the HISPANIC versions of MvC1 & X-Men vs. Street Fighter on top of that a "Rival Schools: United by Faith" game. A CPS2 and Sony Arcade board just happens to find their way into your lap, ya pick up a CGA/EGA/YUV to 2VGA converter PCB. So now you have the means to play these boards in all kinds of RGB's. But I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in there. Say there is a listing on Ebay, there are two Super Gun bundles that take RGB SCART and VGA. You decided to go SCART because it's cheaper, well now you can't connect it to your VGA PCB converter directly due to incompatible SCART lead so you whip the SCART to Component Video YUV adapter out of your skeleton closet. Everything works!

But let's say for the sake of cutting down on the redundance factor you'd rather use the XRGB-3 to run the aformentioned Arcade Boards. The easiness of just connecting the Super Gun RGB cable to a Japan 21-Pin adapter inserted to the XRGB(3) unit into monitor VGA out is what's preferred. INSTEAD of placing your SCART line through the YUV SCART/Component converter, plugging component cables into the PCB converter finally going into the CRT display in VGA which is not preferred. So, let's say you're reviewing the XRGB-3 system compatibility section of the Wiki, ya think you KNOW what to do.

You connect everything via XRGB-3 using the method as explained above. Other Arcade Boards work like a dream namely the Hyper NeoGeo 64 and Samurai Spirits 64, Warriors Rage, Buriki One, and Fatal Fury Wild Ambition. Alright, your confident so try out the CPS2! The Hispanic version of X-MenvsSF/MvC1 (Orange Cartridge looking thingies) the picture keeps going black for lengthy periods of time. RGB-21 INPUT termination is set at 220 OHM (255 A/D), using the RGB SCART through Japanese 21 conversion method. Yet the problem persists, you cut your losses and try out Rival Schools. The game comes on albeit unlike the last situation where the picture is too dark, this time it's too gosh darn bright. The Board name itself is unknown, all that is clear is it's some kind of Sony Arcade Board. So, you figure it's gotta be the Sony ZN-2 because it's listed in the XRGB-3 Wiki. You set the settings in the manner it specifies yet the picture is, again continually glarring.

How to fix this with the XRGB-3?

True story too, my friend has the Arcade goods. He bought a Super Gun, Rival Schools Board, PCB converter, SCART 2 Component Box, and the Hispanic versions of (specifically because they were slightly cheaper) MvC1/X-Men. I've got the XRGB unit on along with the 21-Pin Adapter cable. In a nutshell we tried to combine our tech to see if we would get better results than if his Super Gun was hooked up from the YUV box/PCB adapter. It will help me should I ever get a Super Gun, it would help him as well since he'll be getting the XRGB-3 too and would need to know the settings on said Boards. There is one other thing we haven't tried that was listed in the wiki, and that's adjusting potentiometers of the Super Gun. Then again I'm not even sure if his Super Gun has it, even if it does he has no idea how to configure it.

[Artemio]

1) Simple stereo audio test, for completeness.
2) A screen that simply shows bright white, to check for sync problems on the XRGB3, also to test SCART cables for buzzing in the audio.
3) Somewhat harder to implement but, a scrolling background pattern like Metal Slug has, since this trips up deinterlacers quite often.

Well, 1 and 3 are in the latest Dreamcast build (1.2). I still have to implement 3 on the Genesis. 2 is quite easier.. would take just a few minutes to do.. but I am wondering what you guys think is the best way to organize it. I also optimized a bit the rendering code and added full 640x480 backgrounds for some patterns and their own video mode.

Thanks for all the positive feedback, please let me know if you think of anything else. Regarding the scrolling right now it is a part of the bg form Metal Slug 1.. maybe vertical scrolling form a shooter would be nice.. or adding the sprites with drop shadows while scrolling...

[BuckoA51]

sounds great, I'll give it another go tonight. Regarding the sound test I think perhaps a voice saying "Left channel, right channel" would be best, that way its easy to spot if your speakers are wired the wrong way around.

Adding a vertical scroller and allowing the sprites to be overlaid would be great too

How to fix this with the XRGB-3?

CPS2 is known for being problematic, a sync splitter might help, you'll need to research the best solution and be prepared to get your soldering iron out (or know someone that has good soldering skills )

[Artemio]

I am off to sleep now, but read a bit about the cps2... I have several hispanic and japanese boards, a supergun I crafyed and xrgb aw and 3 as well as arcade crts. Check out the xrgb 3 wiki for my findings, documented them there.

I also posted a video on yputube with te sync separator and cps2 and how it just got in the wayl Will read and post more tomorrow after sleeping

[Konsolkongen]

Looks like you fell asleep on your keyboard...

I received a spindle of CD-R's today but I wasn't home when the postman was here. Have to wait until tomorrow before I can try this out on my XRGB-3 > Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler combo

[Artemio]

Yes, I was really sleepy and without my contacts.. anyway tried to give some info, of course I see I was unsuccessful =P

Well Rock Man, I have a couple dozen CPS-2 boards, and I get a very stable picture with them on the XRGB-3. As stated in the wiki: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/CPS-2 however this is with default settings and AFC set to 3 on my setup. As stated there, if V-Sync Lock is enabled I have seen blackout problems.

I would also check if the supergun isn't doing anything funny to the signal, when I placed an LM1881 on my setuop I got these results with CPS-2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYXkhi5yEpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OxmrN6BH0k

Hope it helps a bit, I would also try other displays.

[Rock Man]

sounds great, I'll give it another go tonight. Regarding the sound test I think perhaps a voice saying "Left channel, right channel" would be best, that way its easy to spot if your speakers are wired the wrong way around.

Adding a vertical scroller and allowing the sprites to be overlaid would be great too

How to fix this with the XRGB-3?

CPS2 is known for being problematic, a sync splitter might help, you'll need to research the best solution and be prepared to get your soldering iron out (or know someone that has good soldering skills )

Yayyy more research! ^0^ Awww more research... -_-

I kid, I kid. This sounds like a lot to wrap my head around though. He may as well stick with the current set-up he has using the help of the SCART/Component Box, then again even with that the picture does occasionally flicker in and out, in anycase looking up CPS2 res and locating a competent sync splitter certainly sounds like a good idea. I suppose my only issue with his method is you get a sort of UNNATURAL pink color within the visuals. Plus he has to connect Component cables from that YUV box which apparently works on analogue TV's and won't take my Plasma.

Now this is just me planning for the future here but say I was thinking. If I got a Super GUN with a VGA output along with the CGA EGA YUV to VGA video converter. Upon hooking the Super GUN up through the converter where VGA goes IN and OUT, would I be able to turn down the hertz level so that my TV accepts CPS2 and possibly Rival Schools? I was wondering since his Super GUN is SCART exclusive. This is in the event I can't get the XRGB-3 to work in conjunction with his Super GUN.

Yes, I was really sleepy and without my contacts.. anyway tried to give some info, of course I see I was unsuccessful =P

You'll have to forgive me if I don't reply to your responses right away. It's because I have so many activities during day/night I can't get to messages as fast as I would like to. Plus my type speed is slower than others creating further delay so please, don't think your info was useless because I found it very informative. =)

Well Rock Man, I have a couple dozen CPS-2 boards, and I get a very stable picture with them on the XRGB-3. As stated in the wiki: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/CPS-2 however this is with default settings and AFC set to 3 on my setup. As stated there, if V-Sync Lock is enabled I have seen blackout problems.

I would also check if the supergun isn't doing anything funny to the signal, when I placed an LM1881 on my setuop I got these results with CPS-2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYXkhi5yEpo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OxmrN6BH0k

Hope it helps a bit, I would also try other displays.

I read that entire guide the other day while over my friends house. I did everything it said, except I botched the V-Sync Lock, in a couple of minutes time I corrected that flaw by disabling it. Still the picture kept blacking out, noticed the problem was most prevelant in B1 linedoubling mode. B0 worked a little better but the pictrure was too glarring (besides I normally don't use B0 mode. I try to stay away from lag while playing fighting games) so yeah I pretty much followed your guide. It's strange that none of those settings worked.

I guess this leaves me with a few options. Tell my friend to check his Super GUN make sure it's not doing anything funny to the signal. I might consider getting that switched installed one day should I experience the same problem with my Super GUN. In light of that I ask where do I get the LM1881 installed does it go on the Super GUN itself or the XRGB-3? (Even though I'm asking some how I doubt this is issue) My last option would be to try a different display as you put it. Will try my TV and see what happens.

I may have a Plasma and not CRT but I did notice a couple of things between the two displays he used and mines. Mines doesn't flicker or black out during intense gameplay. On his I played X-Men versus Street Fighter for the Saturn. Everytime I did Chun-Li Senretsu Kyaku or Wolverines Beserker Barrage X the the screen would go black and come back again. Same for King of Fighters '96 on NeoGeo CD the screen kept jumping every random second. I tested the same console games through my TV and the games played normally. That does it I'm going to see if I can get him to bring his Super GUN over here.

[BuckoA51]

On his I played X-Men versus Street Fighter for the Saturn. Everytime I did Chun-Li Senretsu Kyaku or Wolverines Beserker Barrage X the the screen would go black and come back again.

Classic XRGB3 sync problem, you need to use composite sync from the Saturn to cure this.