Help me get into Ketsui (360)

[Annoyboy]

I first got Ketsui back at release, but didn't have much time to play it, then spent several months in another country and didn't have access to it. I just decided I'm done with Mushihimesama Futari for now, and popped in Ketsui. It's kicking my ass, the graphics are kinda sucky compared to other games on the system and I hate that constant beeping noise from the lock-on.

I understand that Ketsui is a very popular game, but I get the feeling I'm missing something. I can't really tell the difference between X mode and Arcade mode. Is there an option for HD graphics somewhere or did 5pb not bother updating them? Is the lock-on only necessary when going for high scores, or is there a way to change or remove the sound of it? What's the recommended way of playing this game for survival? Oh, and where the frig is the hitbox?

[drunkninja24]

I first got Ketsui back at release, but didn't have much time to play it, then spent several months in another country and didn't have access to it. I just decided I'm done with Mushihimesama Futari for now, and popped in Ketsui. It's kicking my ass, the graphics are kinda sucky compared to other games on the system and I hate that constant beeping noise from the lock-on.

I understand that Ketsui is a very popular game, but I get the feeling I'm missing something. I can't really tell the difference between X mode and Arcade mode. Is there an option for HD graphics somewhere or did 5pb not bother updating them? Is the lock-on only necessary when going for high scores, or is there a way to change or remove the sound of it? What's the recommended way of playing this game for survival? Oh, and where the frig is the hitbox?

There is no HD mode in Ketsui, unfortunately. I don't think it looks that bad though, but I am playing on a CRT. AFAIK, there isn't a way to disable the lock-on noise either. The lock-on itself, outside of scoring, is useful for taking out larger enemies more quickly than the standard shot can. As far as scoring, in a nutshell, in arcade mode, you want to take out an enemy point blank with a regular shot to get a stock of 5 chips, and then use lock on to cash in on the bonus until you run out of chip stock, then reload it again by doing the same. In X mode, you want to try getting a bunch of bullets to appear, and then destroy the colored enemies in a close proximity to acquire chips from the enemy and all on screen bullets. From there you can build the bonus by destroying enemies with regular or lock shot until the counter goes back to 0.

There's probably some intricacies I missed, but as I said, that's it in a nutshell. And the hitbox is pretty much directly in the center of the ship (if using the Tiger Schwert, it can be more easily identified by the little square shape in the center).

If you just want to survive, the way I've found is to take out the large enemies ASAP with the lock shot when they appear, and use my regular shot to destroy the smaller enemies.

[Vyxx]

hitboxes picture From the INH DVD booklet.

[Smraedis]

Play it over and over again, and then you'll learn more all the time.
Just watch any of the good replays too, not the top ones, and you can see what they do. You just have to keep in time with the game, shooting everything as quick as possible, most of the time.

For the sound, you can turn the sound effects down and the music up, I did this myself.

[supergrafx77]

I think you should start off w/ x-mode since you can cancel bullet patterns and it is easier but still awesome and is a lot like arrange mode in dfk bl retail disc . If you are playing on a cab/crt, I think bicubic should be set for resolution. It is really a great game that I believe will suddenly impact you in mysterious and cult-ish ways when you least expect it!

[apple arcade]

I like Ketsui but think people make more out of it than it is. I really hate the boss designs in this game. Just metal blobs, they drain the life out of the aesthetics.

[OBSCVRA]

Agree with supergrafx, and had a similar experience with Ketsui as you, but when it clicked with me... ooooh boy did it click.

One of the few shooters that once i start playing i have a really hard time stopping...

stick with it, it really is worth the hype (in my opinion).

[tinotormed]

hitboxes picture From the INH DVD booklet.

Tnx for the info, Vyxx. Now I can easily beat this game while noting of this hitbox thing.

[Kollision]

Don't flame me guys, for I haven't properly played Ketsui yet. Buuuut....

To me it always sounded just like another DoDonPachi.
Different scoring system, but overall same feel, same vibe.

[apple arcade]

Don't flame me guys, for I haven't properly played Ketsui yet. Buuuut....

To me it always sounded just like another DoDonPachi.
Different scoring system, but overall same feel, same vibe.

DDP feels MUCH better!

[emphatic]

I like Ketsui but think people make more out of it than it is. I really hate the boss designs in this game. Just metal blobs, they drain the life out of the aesthetics.

Who the hell look at the bosses, with all those beautiful patterns of nice colorful bullets pumping out of them?

[Necronopticous]

Don't flame me guys, for I haven't properly played Ketsui yet. Buuuut....

To me it always sounded just like another DoDonPachi.
Different scoring system, but overall same feel, same vibe.

The aesthetic is really the only similarity to Donpachi. The vibe is completely different. This is mainly because you're not worried about breaking a janky ass chain every second of every stage, but there is also something to be said about the personality of the patterns in Ketsui--they are unique and tricky in ways not seen in other Cave shooters. I don't know if Ketsui is decidedly better than the Donpachi offerings, but it is certainly a lot more unique than many give it credit for.

[NzzpNzzp]

Don't flame me guys, for I haven't properly played Ketsui yet. Buuuut....

To me it always sounded just like another DoDonPachi.
Different scoring system, but overall same feel, same vibe.

They're different. DDP has swarms of enemies shooting streams right at you, while Ketsui has spread out enemies firing individual shots. It's like, y'know Dodonpachi gameplay is kinda creeping across the screen and then ducking through a gap and creeping back to the other side? Ketsui has more in the way of enemies all over the screen shooting spread patterns at you.

Yeah I probably coulda phrased that better.

[kernow]

I also think the bosses look a bit meh, nice patterns, but omg prerendered blobs

Hit a wall early, never beat my score since the first week of owning the game.

I just suck at scoring in it, can't get the extra 5's out of the bosses, but hey

at least its not normal chaining. Else it would have been sold long ago.

[Frederik]

Don't flame me guys, for I haven't properly played Ketsui yet. Buuuut....

To me it always sounded just like another DoDonPachi.
Different scoring system, but overall same feel, same vibe.

The aesthetic is really the only similarity to Donpachi. The vibe is completely different. This is mainly because you're not worried about breaking a janky ass chain every second of every stage, but there is also something to be said about the personality of the patterns in Ketsui--they are unique and tricky in ways not seen in other Cave shooters. I don't know if Ketsui is decidedly better than the Donpachi offerings, but it is certainly a lot more unique than many give it credit for.

Exactly. A lot of things feel similar in Ketsui and DOJ on first sight, but if you look closer you see the differences.

DOJ just throws a ton of bullets that travel from top to bottom, just like in DDP. I was used to DDP so I felt right at home in DOJ. If you don´t care for scoring you can stay in the bottom half of the screen while doing the usual swooping, bullet-herding motions and most of the time you´ll be fine.

Ketsui, however, really makes you move a lot, and dodge in a somehow more deliberate manner. Some of the boss patterns are extremely clever in their erratic behaviour - for instance, that last attack of the stage 2 boss always throws me off. Bullets travel in straight lines in DOJ, but in Ketsui they really have a mind of their own - very similar to some of the stuff in Progear and definitely an inspiration for the more loopy patterns in the Touhou series (yeah yeah, I know, a lot of people hate it when you connect CAVE and Touhou, I´m talking strictly about the "bullets with their own minds").

That´s not to say that I don´t like DOJ, I actually kinda enjoy it on a pure survival basis. However, it doesn´t really feel all that different from DDP, hypers aside - and I rather play DDP, which has more charismatic stages, much better looking art and a lot more interesting bosses as well (and a stage 3 sky background that doesn´t look like a badly compressed JPEG nicked from Google image search).

I also think the ship design in DOJ is ridiculously ugly - the A ship is kind of passable, while still looking like a plastic toy in it´s hardly touched-up prerender look, but the B ship really needs a paper bag. On the other hand, sometimes I fire up Ketsui just to look at the Tiger Schwert or the Panzer Jäger. I love their cute little rotor blades!

And yeah, the scoring - aside from Progear and Dangun it´s the only game with a scoring system that I actually find enjoyable.
And I happen to really enjoy the lock-on beeping, as well as the bass-driven lock-shot sound - it´s an aquired taste though, I can see how you could find it annoying.

In the end, though, there´s no need to forcing yourself to like it. Put it aside, pick it up later when you had enough from, say, the fabulous kitschy glam asthetics of DFK and you might appreciate it then.

[Skykid]

Ketsui is God.

[TonK]

Ketsui is God.

This.

[Demetori]

Pretty evil god...

[Treasurance]

Make sure you check out Ketsui Death Label, it's even better

[drunkninja24]

Make sure you check out Ketsui Death Label, it's even better

I wouldn't quite say that, but it is a damn good game to have with you on the go.

[Special World]

For me, the bullets are the real star. Ketsui has the most fun dodging out of any Cave game, imo. The normal enemies fire exhilarating aimed shots and the bosses shoot these crazy fucking bullets that play with your head.

I don't give it as much playtime as I should, but damn those are some fantastic bullets. Now if only I were good at it.

[chempop]

My god, the day when shmups fans don't like helicopters and tanks has really come

Personally I like the designs a whole lot, military themed shmups are rare these days, I believe Ketsui is the swan song in respect to that style of art. Under Defeat had it too, were those bosses just metal blobs too?!?

As folks have already pointed out, its the patterns and intense level design that makes Ketsui so great. The excellent music and military aesthetics just backup the solid gameplay so well, and the lock-on shot is quite badass too. The "beeping" does drive me a tad nuts, I'll admit, I think my music/sound effects settings are 100/45% which does help though.

I have a difficult time rating CAVE's games against one another, I enjoy them all, including Ketsui. Is it in my top 5, probably not at the moment, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to play the heck out of it.

[emphatic]

Ketsui is God.

This.

This.

[stryc9]

Ketsui isn't God. It isn't even OF God. Ketsui is the work of the Devil.

Actually come to think of it, DOJ White Label IS the Devil. Ketsui is just his right-hand man.

[Paradigm]

The only thing that really bothers me about Ketsui is that some of the bullets seem much bigger than their actual hitbox, so I get a lot of those 'how the hell did I just dodge that' moments.

[emphatic]

The only thing that really bothers me about Ketsui is that some of the bullets seem much bigger than their actual hitbox, so I get a lot of those 'how the hell did I just dodge that' moments.

That's a bad thing?

[third_strike]

I thing the peoples say and annoy me is, ketsui is a very intuitive game and don't need (1)heavy memorization and (2)strict timer.

(1) Who here can point blank enemies after stage 2 without lots of memorization?
(2) In Arika's super play in first Power up carrier of first stage the player do a shit (I don't know explain what) to get more cubes and keep doing that the whole run.

[guigui]

The only thing that really bothers me about Ketsui is that some of the bullets seem much bigger than their actual hitbox, so I get a lot of those 'how the hell did I just dodge that' moments.

That's a bad thing?

I also find it quite disturbing. I'm sure I'm dead, but I'm not !

[mjclark]

If only Ketsui had Hypers then all other shmups would die out through a process of natural selection.

[Barrakketh]

I thing the peoples say and annoy me is, ketsui is a very intuitive game and don't need (1)heavy memorization and (2)strict timer.

(1) Who here can point blank enemies after stage 2 without lots of memorization?

If you screw up it's not the end of the world. It's not like DOJ where you make one mistake and the chain is reset.

(2) In Arika's super play in first Power up carrier of first stage the player do a shit (I don't know explain what) to get more cubes and keep doing that the whole run.

IIRC it's only used a few times during the run (hold auto-fire, press regular shot so you transition to a lock-shot as the enemy is destroyed for lots of 5s). Most of the time you just shoot some canon fodder to get the 5 chips and finish off a large enemy with the lock-shot.