Blind Gamer

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:45 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... nd_gamer_1

I dunno if I'd be annoyed or horrified watching this in person.

I wonder which (if any) shmups he could play with any success?

TGK · Post by **TGK** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:52 pm

I would guess Pop n' Twinbee, or super Aleste on normal setting. I doubt he will ever 1cc any shmups, but he can finish those two given enough time to memorize stuff.

Post by **Ghegs** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:54 pm

That's...wow. I suppose he works solely on audio clues, then? But how would he know the fighters' positions in relation to one another? Boggles the mind.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:26 am

http://forum.shmups.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3244

Yeah, it was buried.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:42 am

I think there was an article about him in EGM a few months back. In EGM, it sounded like he only plays fighting games, which if you think of it are just about the only games he conceivably could play. I can't fathom how something even as simple as Space Invaders could be played without sight. But a fighting game, that's a lot of reflexes, and lots of motions to learn on the controller. I have no clue how he'd know distances, but there would probably be plenty of sound cues to tip him off to what attacks his opponent was attempting.

I don't think characters get eviscerated and decapitated in Soul Calibur 2. Sounds like the writer was describing Mortal Kombat.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:52 am

Blind since birth means he has no idea of what the world looks like or what "distance" even is.

His vision of the game is probably nothing like it really is.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:18 am

I'm sure he could play Ikaruga or Radiant Silvergun if he has the timing down to a T.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:25 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:Blind since birth means he has no idea of what the world looks like or what "distance" even is.

His vision of the game is probably nothing like it really is.

He knows what distance is. Distance is largely a visual thing, but there are other spatial senses. He knows the distance between the spacing of brail letters, he knows the distance he travels in a single pace. He probably understand distance better than we do, as he can't rely on visual cues to clue him into where he is.

Still, it is interesting to try to comprehend how he must interpret the games as.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:47 am

Poor guy. He can't play shmups as it's all about visuals.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:48 am

I'd guess that a shoot-em-up would be more difficult for him to play, since in many of them, unlike fighting games, there's usually not any kind of audio cue when something happens (i.e. a bullet is shot), so there isn't as much for him to go on. Still, it is cool that he's able to enjoy video games regardless of his condition.

IlMrm · Post by **IlMrm** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:38 am

Who would challenge a blind guy in a video game? You'd look bad if you win or lose.

The other player could be really messed up and go press the blind guy's buttons.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:19 am

IlMrm wrote:Who would challenge a blind guy in a video game? You'd look bad if you win or lose.

The other player could be really messed up and go press the blind guy's buttons.

Except not, because usually if somebody did that, blind or not, you'd feel the movement of the pad.

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:00 am

Elixir wrote:
IlMrm wrote:Who would challenge a blind guy in a video game? You'd look bad if you win or lose.

The other player could be really messed up and go press the blind guy's buttons.
Except not, because usually if somebody did that, blind or not, you'd feel the movement of the pad.

If you were in an arcade, you might be able to do it. But if it's a fighting game, then he'd probably have his hand over the buttons, wouldn't be able to sneak in and press anything.

And I agree, it seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation when you challenge a blind guy. You can't help but look like a dick if you're going to try to boast even a little about your victory. Although personally, if I were in that arcade, I'd ask to play a game with him. He'd kick my ass -- there are little girls who could -- but it'd just be amazing to see him play. Too bad he seems to be a 3D man. A nic game of Super Street Fighter II X would be nice.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:22 am

Ugh...this story is so fucking retarded. It made front page news on CNN.com the other day

It's apparently more important than people getting turned into beef stew in Iraq.

Of course he plays fighting games. He would be hopelessly doomed in other genres (Ikaruga? no way) and most people (including his challengers apparently) suck hard at fighting games. Fighting game fans: pick one you're well-practiced at, find an average competitor, keep your eyes closed, and you should be able to keep them off balance and own them with combos alone. That's what this guy does. It's a parlor trick. How does he know where the other player is? Well, it's a pretty good bet he's on the other side of the screen

He was playing SC2 in the article...if ever there was a fighting game you could play blind, SC2 is it. The most amazing thing is that he can keep the menus straight.

He must be trying to cull some money, doing the news circuit like he is.

judesalmon · Post by **judesalmon** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:25 am

I could easily beat him in SC2 - just hit him once, then run away - he wouldn't be able to see where you were.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:17 pm

Accutron wrote:Ugh...this story is so fucking retarded. It made front page news on CNN.com the other day It's apparently more important than people getting turned into beef stew in Iraq.

Of course he plays fighting games. He would be hopelessly doomed in other genres (Ikaruga? no way) and most people (including his challengers apparently) suck hard at fighting games. Fighting game fans: pick one you're well-practiced at, find an average competitor, keep your eyes closed, and you should be able to keep them off balance and own them with combos alone. That's what this guy does. It's a parlor trick. How does he know where the other player is? Well, it's a pretty good bet he's on the other side of the screen He was playing SC2 in the article...if ever there was a fighting game you could play blind, SC2 is it. The most amazing thing is that he can keep the menus straight.

He must be trying to cull some money, doing the news circuit like he is.

That's a bit harsh - he's blind and he's playing a game that wasn't meant to be played via the sound at any cost.

If anything, he should have some credit. Sadly, as said above, he won't be able to play shmups, RPGs, and basically 90% of the gaming world. But that really doesn't matter, because you'd be surprised at how advanced these fighters are getting. I'm pretty sure if you threw a gouki at me in 3rd strike, I'd be able to do it with my eyes closed.

Besides, who cares about people being turned into beef stew in iraq? It's a daily event, and it isn't anything ground breaking. The news doesn't even have good visuals. I'd rather play Mortal Kombat blinded and have somebody tell me what the fatality was, as opposed to having some real life drama censored out.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:51 pm

Elixir wrote:If anything, he should have some credit.

Credit for doing something that any skilled gamer can do, just because he's blind? I could beat a lot of people at SC2 with my eyes absolutely closed. Just because he can't open his eyes afterwards doesn't make it newsworthy. Yeah, he had to learn the game blind, but that's a matter of time and dedication...for that I give him credit, the same as any other gamer who has dedicated themselves to a game (strange...the AP didn't come knocking at my door when I got 120 stars in Mario 64). Okay, maybe that's not fair...his accomplishment is unique I guess. I do not believe however, that his actual game playing skills are extraordinary in any way. In fact, I would suggest that his blindness makes it easier for him to learn combos...he can focus totally on the button sequences, undistracted by the game's graphics or the other player's strategy. He can memorize all 50 billion combos in SC2, with nothing more than basic feedback from the other player on what the effects of each combo are..."Yeah, that took like half my health, and I couldn't move for 3 seconds" and soforth. There are simply not enough audio cues in SC2 to form a fully dynamic strategy based on audio cues alone. Therefore, he is not really playing, but dialing. Probability takes care of the rest...most of the time, the other player will be in range or close to it. Every time you attack in SC2, you edge closer to the opponent. It is impossible to not bump into each other.

Elixir · Post by **Elixir** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:27 pm

See now, this is why I don't play SC2. It has so much wrong with it that I premeditated my own refund.

But this isn't about audio "cues" or SC2 at all, it's about a blind guy playing a game. That's like, a blind guy using the internet. Why the hell would you do that? Well, for starters, you wouldn't. Second of all, if you did learn where the keys were and understand typing properly, and posted comments or had a maddox-style site, reading replies won't be happening either.

It's on the news just like Mortal Kombat 3 was on the news for about half a day back in 1997. Depends what you're watching though. Fox news goes to the extreme - every 5 minutes it's "BREAKING NEWS: Bush gets his leg inspected."

Minzoku · Post by **Minzoku** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:34 pm

^^ Actually, there are devices that will read what's on-screen for a blind person, so a blind person using the Internet isn't that farfetched. Certainly a blind person would get nothing out of pop-ups for porn sites...

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:05 pm

The guy outta try some sound/rythm games like Rez, for example. Serioulsy, he'd probably enjoy them a lot more then SC2.

But so the hell what if he's trying to make money off this?! More power to him if news channels want to pay him money for this! The job market in this country is tight enough as it is, much less having a disabilty like this guy does.

And it really shouldn't come as a shock to anyone in this country who watches "World News" on CNN, ABC, CBS, or NBC that campy stories like this regularly make the headlines, rather then more important international stories. American "World News" never has had decent international coverage; if you want that, get the New York Times, or get on www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice .

it290 · Post by **it290** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:56 pm

Rez? Space Channel 5, sure, but Rez is completely impossible to play without sight. It may be a 'music game', but the gameplay has nothing to do with rhythm (except the rhythm of moving the cursor cleanly to chain enemies).

TGK · Post by **TGK** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:56 pm

Accutron wrote: It's a parlor trick. How does he know where the other player is? Well, it's a pretty good bet he's on the other side of the screen He was playing SC2 in the article...if ever there was a fighting game you could play blind, SC2 is it. The most amazing thing is that he can keep the menus straight.

I have this feeling myself. As a kid I used to be schooled by a grown-up (well, teenager) playing SF with his eyes closed. He used to annoy the hell out of me, but then He explained later to me that the key to win like that is to just punch in combos like mad, and be a bit unpredictable with the combo choice so that the opponent can't block effectively. And he went on to beat everyone else who challenged him with his eyes closed. I think almost any fighting games can be played like that once you have learned to reliably perform all the combos.

While I don't deny that the effort he spent to learn the game without any visual is very impressive, I don't consider his feat in fighting games much more than parlor tricks.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:00 pm

Accutron wrote:Ugh...this story is so fucking retarded. It made front page news on CNN.com the other day It's apparently more important than people getting turned into beef stew in Iraq.

Of course he plays fighting games. He would be hopelessly doomed in other genres (Ikaruga? no way) and most people (including his challengers apparently) suck hard at fighting games. Fighting game fans: pick one you're well-practiced at, find an average competitor, keep your eyes closed, and you should be able to keep them off balance and own them with combos alone. That's what this guy does. It's a parlor trick. How does he know where the other player is? Well, it's a pretty good bet he's on the other side of the screen He was playing SC2 in the article...if ever there was a fighting game you could play blind, SC2 is it. The most amazing thing is that he can keep the menus straight.

He must be trying to cull some money, doing the news circuit like he is.

WTF is the wrong with you? Your post is some of the most idiotic, insensitive bullshit I ever read on this site. You obviously don't know what it's like to be handicapped, and for someone to overcome their disability to experience some normalcy that blowhards like you take for granted everyday should be commended. But you're right, Iraq is more important because that garbage has been status quo for over 2 years. More people killed, there is your update. And it's not about mastering a game then playing someone with your eyes closed, it's about learning and mastering a game based on visuals without the ability to ever see anything.

TGK · Post by **TGK** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:14 pm

Nemo wrote:
Accutron wrote:... see above
...
WTF is the wrong with you? Your post is some of the most idiotic, insensitive bullshit I ever read on this site....

...
see post above
...

Well, Nemo, I think we should just take it as a fact of life that a) there are many types of people on forums, including those who would make crude and insensitive response, and b) it wastes time to attack them with more forum posts. After all, real life is what we actually live, what actually matters. On the internet I only give my ideas then leave. No sort of reply can provoke me, regardless if it was the intention of the reply or not. You may find it less stressful if you take forums with a similar policy as I.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:31 pm

TGK wrote:
Nemo wrote:
Accutron wrote:... see above
...
WTF is the wrong with you? Your post is some of the most idiotic, insensitive bullshit I ever read on this site....

...
see post above
...
Well, Nemo, I think we should just take it as a fact of life that a) there are many types of people on forums, including those who would make crude and insensitive response, and b) it wastes time to attack them with more forum posts. After all, real life is what we actually live, what actually matters. On the internet I only give my ideas then leave. No sort of reply can provoke me, regardless if it was the intention of the reply or not. You may find it less stressful if you take forums with a similar policy as I.

A lesson I need to learn as well, TGK, but nevertheless, Nemo has about overcoming disabilities..

And Combo's in fighting games aren't even easy to learn with your eyes open; much less being blind.

However, Nemo, I fail to see what good this remark does:

"But you're right, Iraq is more important because that garbage has been status quo for over 2 years. More people killed, there is your update."

You don't think THAT comment is being insensitive to family's who've lost their loved one's in Iraq? It doesn't sound like you agree with the war; fine, I don't either, but we need to know what the hell is going on over there even if it just sounds like the S.O.S every day.

Part of the problem lies with CNN, though-more then any other news network in this country, they take one story-as courageous as that blind gamer's may be, and black out everything else. They do this with war coverage too; they're just completely unbalanced. Which is why I still suggest the BBC or the New York times as a much better news source.

Accutron · Post by **Accutron** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:12 am

Nemo wrote:WTF is the wrong with you? Your post is some of the most idiotic, insensitive bullshit I ever read on this site. You obviously don't know what it's like to be handicapped, and for someone to overcome their disability to experience some normalcy that blowhards like you take for granted everyday should be commended. But you're right, Iraq is more important because that garbage has been status quo for over 2 years. More people killed, there is your update. And it's not about mastering a game then playing someone with your eyes closed, it's about learning and mastering a game based on visuals without the ability to ever see anything.

What I said isn't even the most insensitive thing said in this thread. Hell, the guys above me were talking about effective ways of cheating when playing the blind guy. All I did was state probable fact...sorry it doesn't put the dude up on some pedestal. Whether or not he's overcoming a handicap, the story isn't very newsworthy. I don't have a problem with CNN picking it up, but front page news? I just tossed out Iraq as an example...just about anything belongs on the front page more than this lame special interest piece.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:36 am

TGK wrote:Well, Nemo, I think we should just take it as a fact of life that a) there are many types of people on forums, including those who would make crude and insensitive response, and b) it wastes time to attack them with more forum posts. After all, real life is what we actually live, what actually matters. On the internet I only give my ideas then leave. No sort of reply can provoke me, regardless if it was the intention of the reply or not. You may find it less stressful if you take forums with a similar policy as I.

When I encounter discrimination of any kind, "real life" or the internet, I feel obligated to say something. If someone was throwing around racial slurs here, I don't think most people would be cool with that. And people may quite possibly learn something on the internet that they can use in their real life. You don't have to treat the guy like a hero, just treat him with respect like you would any other human. To say this guy is a fraud and con-artist is offensive, are people these days really that cynical?

You don't think THAT comment is being insensitive to family's who've lost their loved one's in Iraq? It doesn't sound like you agree with the war; fine, I don't either, but we need to know what the hell is going on over there even if it just sounds like the S.O.S every day.

My intent isn't to demean the sacrafice these soldiers are making, there just isn't a lot changing over there so why dwell on the day to day negativivity of the situation in the media. And in the rare occurence a "feel good" story actually arises, you think people would welcome that, instead some just treat it with contempt.

TGK · Post by **TGK** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:48 am

The peculiar thing here is that I only observe extreme sarcasm and cynicism on internet, forums in particular, and no where else in real life. That's why I think that it is a waste of time to try to "correct the situation". It seems to me that acting high-handed and treating other people with contempt is a phenomenon that appears on the Internet more than any other places.

In life I observe two different trends, people are either reasonable and rational or completely moronic, trying to get into fights with you. There is no in between, no yakking, no snide remarks, no quasi-philosophical debates.

I think its great that you feel a strong emotion against discrimination of any kind. As an (ex) visible minority in the US, I salute you for that attitude. But I think it probably helps your sanity to just ignore the internet in particular. I've wasted hours, and never could make anybody behave any nicer.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:42 am

Nemo wrote:
TGK wrote:Well, Nemo, I think we should just take it as a fact of life that a) there are many types of people on forums, including those who would make crude and insensitive response, and b) it wastes time to attack them with more forum posts. After all, real life is what we actually live, what actually matters. On the internet I only give my ideas then leave. No sort of reply can provoke me, regardless if it was the intention of the reply or not. You may find it less stressful if you take forums with a similar policy as I.
When I encounter discrimination of any kind, "real life" or the internet, I feel obligated to say something. If someone was throwing around racial slurs here, I don't think most people would be cool with that. And people may quite possibly learn something on the internet that they can use in their real life. You don't have to treat the guy like a hero, just treat him with respect like you would any other human. To say this guy is a fraud and con-artist is offensive, are people these days really that cynical?

You don't think THAT comment is being insensitive to family's who've lost their loved one's in Iraq? It doesn't sound like you agree with the war; fine, I don't either, but we need to know what the hell is going on over there even if it just sounds like the S.O.S every day.
My intent isn't to demean the sacrafice these soldiers are making, there just isn't a lot changing over there so why dwell on the day to day negativivity of the situation in the media. And in the rare occurence a "feel good" story actually arises, you think people would welcome that, instead some just treat it with contempt.

Good point Nemo, my apologies. We DO need more positive stories in the media. Ever notice how they always say that it's going to be "partly cloudy", instead of "mostly sunny", in weather reports? Honestly negativity and worry is WAY to much a part of American culture; it's sad, really.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:45 am

TGK wrote:The peculiar thing here is that I only observe extreme sarcasm and cynicism on internet, forums in particular, and no where else in real life. That's why I think that it is a waste of time to try to "correct the situation". It seems to me that acting high-handed and treating other people with contempt is a phenomenon that appears on the Internet more than any other places.

In life I observe two different trends, people are either reasonable and rational or completely moronic, trying to get into fights with you. There is no in between, no yakking, no snide remarks, no quasi-philosophical debates.

I think its great that you feel a strong emotion against discrimination of any kind. As an (ex) visible minority in the US, I salute you for that attitude. But I think it probably helps your sanity to just ignore the internet in particular. I've wasted hours, and never could make anybody behave any nicer.

Very good points TGK, but I love the internet just because, no matter what your interest is, you can find devoted to that interest, and connect with like-minded individuals. But you're right; internet forums are no place to try and change people. You just have to let the negative comments go, and focus on the positive, on what the site is devoted to.