chempop wrote:I'm not trying to start a fight,
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
chempop wrote:I'm not trying to start a fight,
No, you're stupid!drauch wrote:Understood the point. It was stupid.
Drum wrote:Wow, lots of people defending this bullshit. Ineptly. And personally attacking a guy who is concerned about it. Clearly these are gentlemen of quality and worth.
RegalSin wrote:Street Fighters. We need to aviod them when we activate time accellerator.
This is potentially incorrect...emphatic wrote:A downloaded copy of a game is not a lost sale
...and so is this. They ignore how basic economics work.nem wrote:Cave gets absolutely diddly squat from the $900 you spent on your Ketsui pcb.
This is potentially a great post.ZacharyB wrote:snip
RegalSin wrote:Street Fighters. We need to aviod them when we activate time accellerator.
Valid point, but to be brutally honest I'd still pirate a game if it was easier versus buying it legit. No, there's no moral breaking involved with me there, its as simple as how I can get hold of said game and whether the developers choose to put in the effort to get the game to my area. In the case of Guwange it consisted of this:ZacharyB wrote:This is potentially incorrect...emphatic wrote:A downloaded copy of a game is not a lost sale
...and so is this. They ignore how basic economics work.nem wrote:Cave gets absolutely diddly squat from the $900 you spent on your Ketsui pcb.
1. When you buy a piece of entertainment, a DVD, video game, book, whatever, you are not paying for the physical stuff of the entertainment. You are paying for the opportunity to be entertained. When you entertain yourself with said product without paying for it, you can't get that initial entertainment value back. It's spent. The only way to get it back would be to delete the memory of the entertainment in your head... technology we do not currently have (unfortunately). If you don't trust a piece of software to entertain you sufficiently for the cost of entry, then that's alright. But don't put the developer at risk. You guys KNOW that THE is a small developer... Just some food for thought. Can't stop anyone if they really want to do something.
2. About the CAVE (or anyone) not getting back money from the second hand market... this is also potentially incorrect. When you pay the person who spent that $900 (or $50 or whatever) on a second-hand product, you are reimbursing them for their initial purchase of it. This affords them the opportunity to purchase again. Of course, they may not buy the same make of product. But you maintain economic flow by giving that person the room to spend money again on whatever they like. And it just may be another CAVE PCB. (You could extend this analogy to cars or any product.)
disagree. Using MAME to play games that are going on 15-20 years old, and in many cases never got a console release is not the same thing. We are all fans of a half dead, niche genre of games that doesn't get a lot of quality development. NGDEV are making professional, quality games for us, the hardcore shmups fan. They deserve to be supported.Wonderbanana wrote:This whole thread is bullshit.
99% of people here must probably used Mame for shmups they don't 'own'.
Either piracy is piracy and you don't do it/condone it (bye bye shmupmame thread for example) or you accept it does occur and stop calling out folk individually as this thread has done (totally unfair to that user imo).
Any attempt to condone this because 'NG are small' or 'they post here' is crap regardless of your own thoughts/feelings on the matter.
RegalSin wrote:Street Fighters. We need to aviod them when we activate time accellerator.
emphatic wrote:Some people just download EVERYTHING because they can. Let's call them hoarders. They never play these games/albums/movies, and some of them actually put lots of time and money in printing out artwork for their copies etc. These are the same type of people who build MAME cabinets and spend no time playing, just tweaking the frontend etc and spend days setting up emulators for games that they never will play. They will never buy games, nor play them.
For every 100 completed downloads of Fast Striker, I'm betting that only 50% will actually unpack the game (to add it to their iso library) and perhaps 20% will burn it to a disc to try it in their Dreamcast. 10% of these will fail, as they have no idea how to burn a Dreamcast disc properly.Then another 5% will just remove the download, because they find something else that they need to shoehorn in on their overfull harddrive (hoarders, remember?).
emphatic wrote:Some people just download EVERYTHING because they can. Let's call them hoarders. They never play these games/albums/movies, and some of them actually put lots of time and money in printing out artwork for their copies etc. These are the same type of people who build MAME cabinets and spend no time playing, just tweaking the frontend etc and spend days setting up emulators for games that they never will play. They will never buy games, nor play them.
For every 100 completed downloads of Fast Striker, I'm betting that only 50% will actually unpack the game (to add it to their iso library) and perhaps 20% will burn it to a disc to try it in their Dreamcast. 10% of these will fail, as they have no idea how to burn a Dreamcast disc properly.Then another 5% will just remove the download, because they find something else that they need to shoehorn in on their overfull harddrive (hoarders, remember?).
Tosh. Example: Ketsui.burgerkingdiamond wrote:disagree. Using MAME to play games that are going on 15-20 years old, and in many cases never got a console release is not the same thing. We are all fans of a half dead, niche genre of games that doesn't get a lot of quality development. NGDEV are making professional, quality games for us, the hardcore shmups fan. They deserve to be supported.Wonderbanana wrote:This whole thread is bullshit.
99% of people here must probably used Mame for shmups they don't 'own'.
Either piracy is piracy and you don't do it/condone it (bye bye shmupmame thread for example) or you accept it does occur and stop calling out folk individually as this thread has done (totally unfair to that user imo).
Any attempt to condone this because 'NG are small' or 'they post here' is crap regardless of your own thoughts/feelings on the matter.
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
Lul wut?BPzeBanshee wrote:
Then you've got stuff like Fast Striker:
1) setup Dreamcast emulator
2) download ISO
versus:
1) find a guy on internet with Dreamcast
2) negotiate price
3) arrange delivery/shipping/moneyhandling
4) online purchase of Fast Striker
small difference is that they sell games only. A band can go out and make money touring.Heartwork wrote:As someone who is trying to make a living as a musician, I've had this debate many times with many people. The theory is that as independent musicians who are just starting out, we're supposed to hate pirates because we already don't make much money and they're stealing our sales by downloading. However, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Having people download our EP from a torrent site is the best promotion we can possibly have. I'm confident enough in the material we put out that I think anyone who hears it is pretty likely to enjoy it and become a fan. If they hear it via a torrent they downloaded, more power to them. The fact that they heard it is going to mean they'll probably come see us if we play in their city, and maybe buy a t-shirt or something. That's what puts gas in our van, gets us across the country on tour, and let's us do what we do.
I can't imagine indie developers like NGDEV are in a much different boat.
The funny thing is though it isgray117 wrote:For example, I wouldn't say this case is even similar to the ketsui emulation concerns I had; where some argued the passage of time and the unique offerings of the 360 port essentially made it a different product.
I know this started out with MjClark, but I actually forgot about him. I normally would stay out of this kind of discussion, but the particular circumstances struck a nerve.LtC wrote:'Don't ask, don't tell' policy should be applied here. If you really want to start a holy crusade against shmups piracy there are better targets than mjclark.
This thread is pointless and will do noone any good, I suggest locking this away.
All lowercase pleaseburgerkingdiamond wrote:I know this started out with MjClark