XRGB-3

[Fudoh]

Ok, and since my setup looks more like a battlefield at this very moment, I tried some other things as well.

1) MVS to XRGB to DVDO does not work on the 50pro. I also tried with an Extron RGB interface in between and I could get a picture, but it was rolling, no matter which settings on the XRGB or the RGB interface are applied. This very likely means that it doesn't work on the Edge or Duo either, since these two are derived from the 50pro. In the essence this means that only 15khz is accepted at "weird" rates, while VGA in only accepted when close to 60Hz.

2) MVS to XRGB to RGB Interface to LCD TV works (on my setup). I was surprised to see so, because the Extron does not change the output frequency and without the Extron my TV goes blank once the MVS is connected to the XRGB. A high AFC level is required to display the MVS properly (PGM as well). If I add a second RGB interface between the source and the XRGB, I can use an AFC level of 2, but it doesn't do much else...

Conclusion: the Extron interfaces are worth a try. They can be found as cheap as $30 for the older ones. As long as the display in question is able to handle the 59,1Hz output in general, the Extron interface should fix the sync signal to an extend where the TV works fine with the XRGB/MVS/PGM combo. The DVDO machines can't be used to correct the weird output frequency with the XRGB in the processing chain, they work fine though with the MVS directly connected, so just add a SLG3000 and enjoy MVS without the XRGB (see my previous posting).

[BuckoA51]

Have to ask, how about MVS->Xselect D4->XRGB3->DVDO->TV ?

Also there was something in the release notes for the new firmware on the Edge about improved handing of signals outside of standard or something? Are you on the latest frimware? I assume you probably are.

[Fudoh]

It doesn't seem make a difference if I feed the MVS in RGBs, RGBHV or component, the DVDO doesn't seem to be able to lock to the 59,1Hz 31khz output by the XRGB in all those cases. The XSelect itself handles the MVS fine. I used the output to feed the DVDO and the Videon linedoubler (which takes 15khz component only).

Your setup is really easy. You can continue to connect the MVS to the XSelect. Then just go via RGBHV from the XSelect to the XRGB and via D-Terminal to component to the Edge, so you can bypass the XRGB for MVS gaming. Then you just add a 1:2 HDMI splitter ($20), a HDFury ($80) and a SLG3000 ($70) to the Edge's output and you have your dedicated "scanline path" for everything that doesn't run through the XRGB.

PS: I don't have an Edge anymore (your firmware question).

[BuckoA51]

I don't have an XSelect I was just curious to see if it worked. Yeah its a shame the MVS seems so troublesome (the Master System Converter on the Genesis also seems impossible to get working).

I wonder if MVS would work if you went MVS->Phantom 1 converter->AES then plugged that configuration into the XRGB3 setup.

[Fudoh]

I wonder if MVS would work if you went MVS->Phantom 1 converter->AES then plugged that configuration into the XRGB3 setup.

it should work better, since the AES hardware runs faster (even with a MVS converter) (=closer to 59,94Hz).

I find both solutions (MVS-XRGB-RGB Interface-TV and MVS-Edge-Fury-SLG) easy and good enough though to stick to the original MVS hardware.

[Konsolkongen]

Hmm that SLG sounds amazing Have you tried MVS > XRGB-3 in B0 mode (640x480) > SLG > TV/whatever? How would that look? I can live with the lag from B0 mode for Master System and Neo Geo.

Any chance the XRGB-2+ will work better with MVS and Master System than the XRGB-3?

[SGGG2]

the Master System Converter on the Genesis also seems impossible to get working.

I have an Everdrive flash cart for my Model 1 (The Genesis has MS hardware built in) and SMS games work just fine with the XRGB.

[Konsolkongen]

Then there must be a difference in how the Everdrive handles Master System games and how the Converter does it. If I remember correctly not all Master System games work on the Everdrive. Besides I'd rather play my original Master System games than a downloaded rom

[gundamalpha]

Sorry for the noob question, but can I update the lastest firmware using fudoh's guide?

[BuckoA51]

Sorry for the noob question, but can I update the lastest firmware using fudoh's guide?

Yes you can, though if you are going for English firmware it's even easier because the updater tool is in English too.

Then there must be a difference in how the Everdrive handles Master System games and how the Converter does it

Or, you're using different display hardware from us that's more tolerant to the XRGB3's slightly out of frequency output. I should have said the SMS converter seems impossible to get working with the XRGB B1 to DVDO or Gefen scalers.

Besides I'd rather play my original Master System games than a downloaded rom

I'm with you there, I've downloaded virtually every ROM for every system I could find, it's great because I can quickly try out any retrogame I read about, but nothing beats owning and using the original hardware and software

[Konsolkongen]

Or, you're using different display hardware from us that's more tolerant to the XRGB3's slightly out of frequency output. I should have said the SMS converter seems impossible to get working with the XRGB B1 to DVDO or Gefen scalers.

You're right. Unfortunately my TV doesn't have a VGA input... for some reason Panasonic thought it would be clever to remove that, but it still has a composhite input So Gefen, DVDO or others are my only possibility for using the XRGB's B1 mode on my TV.

[BuckoA51]

Mine has a VGA input but it is dreadful, suprisingly because Fudoh uses a similar model and his VGA input is good. I think for my next display I will check out commercial monitors (the kind designed for shop displays etc) rather than TV's, if you have a videoprocessor you can get all your content (film and game) onto a display that way. I hardly ever watch TV anyway but if I did I could by a freeview box. I can see many manufacturers dopping VGA entirely in the future on consumer sets. Anyway here I go again throwing a thread wildly off-topic

[Fudoh]

Hmm that SLG sounds amazing Have you tried MVS > XRGB-3 in B0 mode (640x480) > SLG > TV/whatever?

not yet, but I will...

Any chance the XRGB-2+ will work better with MVS and Master System than the XRGB-3?

no, because it's not the XRGB's fault. Please buy yourself one of those Extron interfaces (get a cheap used one) and see if it help. I had a blast playing MVS last night and I wouldn't have expected the MVS to work this great since it wouldn't even display for a moment before...

[BuckoA51]

I don't understand, you said above that the picture was rolling even with this Extron thing? Or did you mean it might fix the problem on the Edge or the Gefen perhaps?

Also, just what are these Extron interface things? What were they originally sold for/to do? What should we look for when buying one? I've never heard of them before.

[Fudoh]

I don't understand, you said above that the picture was rolling even with this Extron thing? Or did you mean it might fix the problem on the Edge or the Gefen perhaps?

unfortunately I haven't got my Gefen yet and I don't know if I'll be able to check with a MVS in time I get it. it's worth a try though. Some of the Extron interfaces are really cheap. The Edge will probably behave like my 50pro (not able to lock to the signal).

Also, just what are these Extron interface things? What were they originally sold for/to do?

Just interfacing. Imagine a classroom with a beamer installed. Then a VGA cable would be running from the beamer to the teacher's table and at the table a RGB interface would be installed for a quick connection to notebooks or other sources. Those interfaces rework the sync signal and boost the VGA signal.

What should we look for when buying one? I've never heard of them before.

Extron RGB* on ebay. This is very nice one for example, with an integrated 2:1 switch, adjustable horizontal offset and even a display for showing the exact frequency. I have the same, just with 3 inputs. http://cgi.ebay.com/280578347972

[BuckoA51]

Okiedokey, I found a cheap 580i for £30 shipped, I'll give it a whirl and let you all know. I don't have a MVS but I'll try the Sega Master System converter and look into borrowing a friends MVS at some point too.

[Konsolkongen]

Looking forward to hearing the results. How does the Extron connect to the XRGB? By BNC to VGA or BNC to Scart cable?

[Fudoh]

Looking forward to hearing the results. How does the Extron connect to the XRGB? By BNC to VGA or BNC to Scart cable?

you can use the Extron for both, an input filter or an output filter. My idea is to use as an output filter, so XRGB -> (DB15 to DB15) -> Extron -> (BNC to VGA) -> TV or Gefen.

[Konsolkongen]

I have an Extron RGB 190F I bought to put between XRGB and Optoma hoping that would sync. It didn't Could it be used between the XRGB and Gefen to make SMS and MVS work?

[Fudoh]

I really don't know what's wrong with the SMS output, but give it a try for MVS. I mean, my TV went from complete blackout to 100% perfect picture just with the Extron in between.

[BuckoA51]

Might be a while before I can borrow a MVS but I'll do my best. I'm also curious to see if this device makes the XRGB's output any better when going directly to my TV.

I've also got another HDMI cable and wired up my VGA splitter, I'll make some Gefen Vs Edge screenshots in the next few days.

[Konsolkongen]

I tried the XRGB > Extron > Gefen combo just now with Master System. Unfortunately it didn't make a difference. My MVS is in pieces, and have been for a while. Was planning on painting it but then forgot all about it

I'm hoping the B0 mode in 640x480 > SLG3000 > Gefen will look nice. It's much easier than using a 240p capable device like the Edge > HDMI to VGA > SLG3000 > Gefen.

[gundamalpha]

@ konsol - What is wrong with my settings?

I followed your instruction carefully (after getting rid of the borders, before the script) and this is what I got. Any help?

[Konsolkongen]

Email me the raw screenshot and I'll have a look at it

[Konsolkongen]

I switched my XRGB-3 in B0 mode at 640x480 last night with my Master System connected. It looked really bad. The scaling was so uneven, I doubt all the scanlines in the world could make up for that

I'm looking forward to BuckoA51's results with the Extron

[BuckoA51]

It despatched today, along with the 5 RCA to VGA cable I needed, but I'm not very hopeful.

[gundamalpha]

Email me the raw screenshot and I'll have a look at it

Can't find your e-mail address

[naibas]

I'm having the same Power+Standby light and zero functionality problem that RVTK2DX was having. The difference is that mine seems to have to do with the fact that when I run the update tool, it can recognize the XRGB3, and allows me to select a file, but then immediately quits without an error, but leaving my XRGB3 in the power+standy broken state.

So I have no problem with the update tool seeing my XRGB3 (using the "hold PiP and press Power" emergency boot trick), but the update tool just fails to complete the flash.

My desktop and laptop both run Win7 64, which the update tool refuses to play nice with at all ("file open error"), so I tried running XPsp3 in VMWare, as well as trying it from the XPsp3 install I have an a fit-pc. Both behave with exactly the same quitting behavior I outlined above.

Anyone got any ideas?

UPDATE:

OK, I downloaded VMWare Player to my desktop (v3.1.3, run on Win7 64), and then grabbed a WinXP SP2 install disc. After it installed, I did not run Windows update, installed the 1.00 and 2.12e installers (in that order), and then I started seeing new problems:

1.00: When I selected this update file, I got the "File Open Error" message.
2.12e: When I selected this update, the app would crash.

I right clicked the shortcut, selected "compatibility", and chose "Win 2000". Then I got:

1.00: Success!
2.12e: Success!

[Konsolkongen]

gundamalpha>

I sent you a PM

[SGGG2]

The Gefen scaler rebuilds the XRGB sync into something most TV's can work with right? Does it accept 1080p? I'm thinking of picking a Samsung Plasma, and I have the feeling the compatibility I currently enjoy with my 37" LCD monitor is going to fly out the window...