The Last Story, Xenoblade

[Mortificator]

the scenario writer of Gears, the most important person, had nothing to do with Saga

Tetsuya Takahashi wrote both, brah.

Adding the "Xeno" prefix for it to sell is just a shameless tactic, especially if the game is not even spiritually tied to the other two.

Remind me again how related Xenosaga really is to Xenogears.

The same way the newer Star Wars movies are related to the original trilogy.

[Despatche]

Sorry, that second bit just reads like a lie.

[Specineff]

The link between Gears and Saga is spiritual, as Xenosaga is not even a side story. They just share elements and concepts:

The Wave Existence and U-Do (Though U-Do seems malevolent compared to the Existence)
The Zohar as a limitless Energy Generator.
Vessels of Anima and Anima Relics, turning ordinary Gears into super machines.
Fei and Abel as contacts of an Extra-dimensional higher being.
Elly and Nephilim.
The Seraphs and Gnosis.
Esmeralda and KOS-MOS as droids/Cyborgs.
And a sword-wielding, badass doctor.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Even though the screenshots I saw were obviously rendered by something more powerful than Wii (or rendered by Wii in more time than it'd take to make the game playable), I admit that I like the artistic direction. Nevertheless, having played through Xenogears all the way I steer away from games those people make. EVERYTHING I read about Xenosaga makes me think it's right thing to do.

[Drum]

Maybe I should have started a new thread. People should be talking about The Last Story, which looks good, and not Xenowhatever, which does not.

[linko9]

Everyone I've heard talking about Xenoblade has nothing but praise for the game. It was just rated the best game of the year by some japanese fan-voting site (I heard this on Warning a huge podcast, don't remember what the site is). I'd certainly rather play Xenoblade than Last Story, but I doubt I'll ever play either, due to lack of localization.

[Rob]

It was just rated the best game of the year by some japanese fan-voting site (I heard this on Warning a huge podcast, don't remember what the site is).

4gamer.net

I want both of these games badly. Too bad about Wii and such.

[Zeether]

I'm still optimistic that Xenoblade is coming out here since Nintendo still says it's TBA (and with a game that text heavy it might be taking a while)

Last Story they said they have "currently no plans" to release but that could change...and with the hype it's receiving in Japan I hope to god they don't lock us out.

[Jockel]

I'm still optimistic that Xenoblade is coming out here since Nintendo still says it's TBA (and with a game that text heavy it might be taking a while)

Last Story they said they have "currently no plans" to release but that could change...and with the hype it's receiving in Japan I hope to god they don't lock us out.

The Nintendo-dude that claimed there would be no plans to localize the Last Story was the same guy that said there wouldn't be a DS hardware revision... a day before the DSLite was announced.

[Zeether]

I'm still optimistic that Xenoblade is coming out here since Nintendo still says it's TBA (and with a game that text heavy it might be taking a while)

Last Story they said they have "currently no plans" to release but that could change...and with the hype it's receiving in Japan I hope to god they don't lock us out.

The Nintendo-dude that claimed there would be no plans to localize the Last Story was the same guy that said there wouldn't be a DS hardware revision... a day before the DSLite was announced.

[cj iwakura]

No Fatal Frame IV, no Disaster, no Trace Memory, zilch. Noteworthy imports are being left to rot.

And then Atlus continues onward with 999. What a world.

Aksys, actually. They've been running circles around Aksys.


And Resonance of Fate is really fun. The story doesn't take itself seriously, and you can shoot people into the air, somersault over them, then blast them into the ground.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I should be done with Xenoblade Chronicles just in time to buy The Last Story (and Skyward Sword) at reduced prices. Such is my way with Nintendo. That said, something keeps telling me to buy The Last Story the very next payday, if only to shake it at the "shame about Wii" cool bros. I miss times when even Square was good at making games about wee dudes twatting huge monsters in real time.
Interestingly, it's the first PAL game known to me that does not output 50 Hz (the official site says "60 Hz only").
I am, however, suprised by the opinions that either game looks "good for Wii". The Last Story's cheap animations alone would make it look rough around the edges on a last gen console. Xenoblade Chronicles in 480i literally does look rough around the edges.
Frankly, the only Wii games I've played so far with the presentation worth of fully beefed up exclusives would be Metroid: Other M and Red Steel 2 (not that the latter had much substance to it). What else is there that neither looks nor sounds cheap? PoP: The Forgotten Sands? Tatsunoko vs Capcom? The hardware seems about as potent as I thought and I wonder which devs at least tried to do it justice.

[Drum]

Metroid Other M has awful presentation. Prime 3 is a lot better. Or are you just talking 3rd party? (that's the only way I can make sense of the odd picks/omissions.

[Obiwanshinobi]

All first party Nintendo games for the Wii and a bunch of second party ones I've seen so far look either cheap or not very polished, or there's just something skanky about them: the dudes in both Legends of Zelda, the animations in Battalion Wars 2, the everythnig except for animations in Mario Kart Wii... Granted - Mario Kart Wii, S&P2 and Other M are well programmed, which SHOULD be a priority for the devs tight on the budget, but you'd think Nintendo, of all companies, with smaller development costs and bigger profits than the other hardware manufacturers, should be able to give their console overkill presentation in at least a couple of exclusives. Last time I checked it was a matter of prestige to ensure your customers will get the feeling their console is getting squeezed to the last drop. My "GameCube and a half" barely competes with the original GameCube in this regard, let alone the PS2 (a platform initially struggling to compete with the DC) at the same point of its lifecycle.
Other M looks and sounds like Metroid in 3D (not during the cutscenes of course, but it's a minor issue) at pretty good framerates, has got pretty good character animations and is just the sort of a TPP action game consoles are about for my money. It certainly has not disappointed me (not that I had very high expectations to begin with).
Frankly, of all 3D (i.e. polygonal) games for the Wii, I liked the looks of Another Code: R and Rune Factory Frontier best. Speaks volumes that both games have their origins on the DS.
Mind you, I've yet to play Super Mario Galaxy, but SMK Wii recently made clear to me that I've never liked the Mario cast in 3D (although it's mostly about the voices), so that one is unlikely to not make me wince at any point.

[linko9]

All first party Nintendo games for the Wii and a bunch of second party ones I've seen so far look either cheap or not very polished, or there's just something skanky about them.

That is a very odd opinion indeed. The Galaxy games, Skyward Sword, Rhythm Heaven, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Wario Land Shake it, Super Paper Mario, Smash Bros, hell, even Wii Sports Resort: Say what you will about the games (I think they're all pretty damn good), but I think visually they're all among the best looking on the system, and look great objectively, even when compared to games on other platforms. I certainly wouldn't say any of those games look cheap or unpolished. Hell, I can confidently say Nintendo is the company that gives its games the most polish of any major developer.

[Drum]

DKCR, MP3, the Galaxies and SSBB are probably the high water marks on the system in terms of visual fidelity/framerate etc.
EDIT: Kororinpa and Muramasa are nice-looking games too.

[TransatlanticFoe]

The Last Story came in the post today and it's indeed 60 Hz only (there's some blurb in the manual about wanting it to be the best it can be). My CRT from 1998 is capable of displaying 60 Hz, so it shouldn't be a big deal for anyone by now. I have the Gamecube Zelda Collector's Edition and that's 60 Hz only too.

Metroid Prime Trilogy looks pretty incredible... which is a sad indication of the state of ground-up Wii development because two of the games are pretty much straight 'cube ports (new controls aside). I think the key a lot of the time is artistic direction. Red Steel 2 case in point right there. Xenoblade went for draw-distance at the expense of texture resolution (no idea about the weird faces though) and it works for me because I've got a small (19") TV.

Aside from Mass Effect, I've had more fun out of my Wii than my gaming rig. I can cope with things being a little rough around the edges presentation wise if it hits the spot where it matters.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Perhaps nobody buys a Wii for the graphics, but I still expected it to rock my lovely CRT a tad harder, because why not? Say, some flashy Rogue Squadron and F-Zero updates: now-malnourished genres, fondly rememberd past...

Hell, I can confidently say Nintendo is the company that gives its games the most polish of any major developer.

Then why the hell Mario Kart Wii (second best selling Wii game, and I'm sure Nintendo was pretty confident about that bundle) can't muster any tracks looking as good as the tracks in Jak X? (Just the most cheerful ones, to keep things "cartoony".) The former might have been the most polished "everyone's" racer to date, but why doesn't it even look NICE, let alone cutting edge?
I'm still a pretty fresh Wii owner so there's plenty of stuff I haven't seen. Just saying that nothing blew me away thus far, whereas a handful of PS2 games did back when PCs technically already left it far behind.

Xenoblade went for draw-distance at the expense of texture resolution (no idea about the weird faces though) and it works for me because I've got a small (19") TV.

Hiring good artists costs money too, and with second parties like Monolith and Treasure, thriftness in this area would explain a lot. The mugs and 3D "acting" inferior to FFX, however, can't quite be justified by the world size and draw distance. To say it's well done for a Wii game is to keep your expectations lower than necessary. Actually, BG: Dark Alliance (about as old as FFX) sports dudes looking and "acting" better than Xenoblade, with superior antialiasing at that.
As for The Last Story, while it sounds interesting, I don't get what makes it LOOK any better than FF Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers (and that doesn't even have the charm of ye olde Threads of Fate).

[Drum]

I agree, there isn't anything that blows away the best of GC, but there is some stuff that looks comparable - you just haven't played it.
Generally speaking, the best graphical craftsmen in the industry worked on 360/PS3 games because, really, they'd be wasted on Wii. So even though the Wii did have a bit more power than GC, it wasn't really taken advantage of.

EDIT: Treasure is 3rd party, Monolith is 1st party now (they were bought not too long ago).

[Obiwanshinobi]

S&P2 is a game of Nintendo franchise, published by Nintendo, made for Nintendo money by a development studio not owned by Nintendo. Sounds like second party development to me, akin to F-Zero GX. By the way, I wish they hired the makers of Mashed to work on Mario Kart (could make the AI at least SEEM to work against you without losing the accessibility).

Generally speaking, the best graphical craftsmen in the industry worked on 360/PS3 games because, really, they'd be wasted on Wii.

Not sure about both statements. Japanese games, for one, apper to have severe issues with their graphics this gen regardless of the platform (Golden Sun: Dark Dawn vs both GBA Golden Suns is the most gash example I can think of right now). Also, if for the price of one 360/PS3/PC multiplatform game development you can make two different Wii games or three different handheld games (no idea if that's the exact rate, but you know what I mean), I can't see why the elite shouldn't be also working on the platforms cheaper to develop for.

[Drum]

Well, 2nd party never really had a proper meaning. I think it first started getting tossed around by Nintendo in reference to Rare, who were part-owned so I'm going with that useage. There are others:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game ... ment_party
I would rather bite my dick off than get into a protracted debate about that though, so let's just say it was a bit silly to 'correct' you over the useage of a term that doesn't really have a clear meaning.

[BulletMagnet]

As for The Last Story, while it sounds interesting, I don't get what makes it LOOK any better than FF Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers

For whatever it's worth I thought Crystal Bearers was a pretty good-looking game in most respects...guess it's just one's own perspective.

[Estebang]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but The Last Story is confirmed for a US release, with Pandora's Tower now being the only remaining Project Rainfall game.

It might be hard for you Euro folks to get Last Story, as I've heard a few retailers there have cancelled all preorders of the game. (EDIT: Seems it actually came out yesterday there...how'd it go?)

[sjewkestheloon]

The problem is with the chain Game, other places seem to have plenty of copies. Game have failed to stock a few games now and are in some financial difficulties.

I have passed on this game for now as I am still playing xenoblade and mass effect 3 is on the horizon.

[TransatlanticFoe]

I'm about halfway through this and it's superb.

Aside from a few minor clipping issues and framerate dips (mostly in crowds or areas with reflections, I haven't noticed it in combat), the game looks fantastic. Outside of the two Conduit games it's technically one of the best looking Wii games but it is a little too much for the console - the framerate dips remind me of the start of Shenmue 2 where you run through the park with the fountain and all the birds take off.

Camera control is bit iffy with Wii remote and nunchuck so I'd advise Classic Controller use if you have one - it has indepedent camera control whereas the standard input just has a "reset facing forward" function. Occasionally you'll get whacked about with little chance to react and some of the bosses get a little unfair - with tough to spot instant death abilities and random health regeneration. It's mostly well balanced and is far more satisfying than, say, Mass Effect's combat.

Obligatory comparison alert! It's not as good as Xenoblade but has its charms - there are cats everywhere and people will randomly bang their heads on signs as they walk along.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Played Xenoblade a bit (still early into the game) with a Classic Controller Pro.
Good - Wiimote & Nunchuk worked fine, but made the game feel like ported from PC with the point & click interface omitted. Not being able to use the Wiimote to point at stuff and click felt wrong to me in the game clearly inspired by MMOs. Classic Controller Pro doesn't give me this feeling.
Bad - sheesh, I can live with the lack of buttons beneath the sticks and no vibrations (few PlayStation games make use of L3 & R3 all that often anyways), but why, with default setup, I must press two buttons to reset the camera? Can't it be mapped onto just one?

Still mixed feelings overall (although I feel more inclined to contiue this than to revisit and finish Valkyrie Profile 2). I like neither the MMO vibe present here, nor the easy-arse achievemet giving. This game doesn't need either. Are MMOs where the audience is? Girl, do I feel left out in the cold.

The exploration reminds me of Gothic, which is a good thing, though. Depicted world was one of very few things good about Xenogears. Xenoblade's story is better than that of Xenogears, fortunately. I do hope third time's the charm (as many things about the story seem similar here).