Anyone else feeling the Daifukkatsu meh?

[Paradigm]

FYI.

Thank you for that, but I was already well aware of the point you were trying to make.

However, let's say Kamui is playing BG for a high score, he already knows the game inside out and is ready to attempt a new WR. Let's say he drops his medal chain in stage 1 - I have a very hard time believing he wouldn't restart at that point and try again.

But anyway, as I said, there is no rule for this sort of thing. It isn't a fact that a top player would play every credit through no matter what nor is it that they would restart due to any slight error. It's purely down to the individual.

[Kaiser]

And I was referring to a player that is making a scoring run, because the really high level players make good use of their time and credits, rather than restarting a thousand times on stage 1 for even the slightest error. High scores come naturally as you gain more familiarity and comfort with stages, and restarting for relatively minor problems slows down your progression. My best score on iOS Daifukkatsu (109bil, 2-2 URA, Normal diff.), was gained after completely fucking up stage4. FYI.

I see, so the point you're making that you should keep playing the game even if you lose your first credit so you can get familiar with all later stages every time you play through the game? (indepedently of the genre, for example same could be applied to beat-em'ups. AS LONG as the game ends)

[Frederik]

I'd like to carry on, but...

Meh.

I tried to think of a witty reply, but meh...

[Taylor]

Daifukkatsu.

Too easy and too hard.

Also contains unexpected chaining system.

[Jockel]

Daifukkatsu.

Too easy and too hard.

Surprisingly accurate.

[spadgy]

If auto bombing makes it so easy and awful.... then use power mode. If that mode is to hard for you... then, hell I don't even get it really. It's like when folks bitch about Futari BL's maniac being to easy but are scared of god mode.

Brentsg summed up my feelings pretty much verbatim with his last few posts.

But if I correctly summarize your feelings, it seems like you prefer to be kicked in the nuts straight away (DOJ). DFK 1.5 seems much more approachable, and it is. But there is still very much to learn, it's just hidden under the guise of an easy survival clear.

Yep - brentsg puts very succinctly why (so far) I really like this game.

And on autobombing - if it is so frustrating to accidentally use (and I think it is), isn't that the same frustration at loosing a life? I kick myself when an autobomb pops. It breaks my chain and it makes me feel stupid, and for those reasons it adds a pressure the game. Sure, it makes things easier, but it adds something else. The pressure of not falling back on a wimpy autobomb adds exactly the kind of pressure that makes these games so great.

I guess, to totally undermine my own argument, is that DFK gives you 15 lives. There's no pressure there (unless you want to use as few as possible, which you should).

EDIT:

Daifukkatsu.

Too easy and too hard.

Also contains unexpected chaining system.

I absolutely agree there's something of a flaw in that regard.

[Skykid]

Daifukkatsu.

Too easy and too hard.

Surprisingly accurate.

Yes, weirdly that about sums it up!

[ratikal]

If in some runs I can hit both extends in the first stage where in some other runs I can't, I think there is something wrong with your game.

Arrange A is where it's at though. The fact you could destroy those bloody lasers in Stage 5 sold me.

[PROMETHEUS]

I hate autobomb so Power is the only style to try to make headway in - but then I also dislike having no bombs (and having ones you collect autobomb.) It's a crappy way to balance things.

I mostly agree with this.
Also, what I dislike with this game is that you spend too much of the time cancellings bullets and not dodging anything. It seems to become really easy once you've figured out your scoring routes, at least in the first loop.

I've seen some Strong Mode superplay video of Black Label and I couldn't believe what I saw. Complete bullshit. The player never dodged anything, he was just standing at the top of the screen for 30 seconds cancelling bullets, then he moved a little, not much happened, and at the smallest danger, bam, he's back into hyper mode for 30 seconds not moving, cancelling stuff. Even on the stage 5 boss he barely dodged a single pattern without invicibility. It just seems really easy and stupid. Isn't it supposed to be the hardest mode in Black Label ?

I don't think being immobile and safe most of the time while scoring really high is what makes danmakus interesting/fun. I want crazy dodging damnit !

(however I still really dig the game's style and have found it enjoyable playing casually so far)

[chempop]

Arrange A is where it's at though. The fact you could destroy those bloody lasers in Stage 5 sold me.

Damn straight! ITA, rewarding the player for dodging while in hyper is far more exciting while still being able to cancel bullets if need be. The whole mode is so polished, it's got insane firepower, 30000+ chains (best I've done), sparse bombs, and partially visible bees (some may complain but I think it's better that way). The only gripe I have with the mode is that only one ship is available.

[gs68]

I've seen some Strong Mode superplay video of Black Label and I couldn't believe what I saw. Complete bullshit. The player never dodged anything, he was just standing at the top of the screen for 30 seconds cancelling bullets, then he moved a little, not much happened, and at the smallest danger, bam, he's back into hyper mode for 30 seconds not moving, cancelling stuff. Even on the stage 5 boss he barely dodged a single pattern without invicibility. It just seems really easy and stupid. Isn't it supposed to be the hardest mode in Black Label ?

You mean this bullshit?

[Emuser]

Also, what I dislike with this game is that you spend too much of the time cancellings bullets and not dodging anything. It seems to become really easy once you've figured out your scoring routes, at least in the first loop.

I've seen some Strong Mode superplay video of Black Label and I couldn't believe what I saw. Complete bullshit. The player never dodged anything, he was just standing at the top of the screen for 30 seconds cancelling bullets, then he moved a little, not much happened, and at the smallest danger, bam, he's back into hyper mode for 30 seconds not moving, cancelling stuff. Even on the stage 5 boss he barely dodged a single pattern without invicibility. It just seems really easy and stupid. Isn't it supposed to be the hardest mode in Black Label ?

I don't think being immobile and safe most of the time while scoring really high is what makes danmakus interesting/fun. I want crazy dodging damnit !

(however I still really dig the game's style and have found it enjoyable playing casually so far)

I share similar views on Black Label. A lot of people are really looking forward to it when the port is released in 3 weeks, but something about it just didn't click with me when I saw the player do like how many hypers on stage 5? It was seriously annoying just watching him hyper-plow through the trouble spots, and then be able to CANCEL his hyper on top of that to give him controlled invincibility when he needed it. The bad part about it in this case is that scoring is different in Black Label than in 1.5 so spamming hyper is actually what you're SUPPOSED to do to get a high score in Black Label. I swear to you all that there will be some angry people when that port comes out in a little while...

[Udderdude]

It's pretty established to anyone who's been paying attention by now, that any time Yagawa gets out of his comfort zone (Rank heavy medal chaining), the result is usually a mess. It's too bad, really.

(If you're wondering what relevancy this has, Yagawa did DFK Black Label)

[gray117]

I think there's some annoying things - but I'm certainly far from shelving it.

There's a spot too much glowy death via your weapon effects, et al, that pisses me off a bit - loli influences aside that just helps push the game into that neon color realm that dp/ddp/doj always avoided - always pissed me off with futari too, but I got how that suited the 'fantastic too colorful' a bit better in theme and setting.

Strangely I haven't hated the loli-boss-atrons as much as I thought, but they would be better as some kind of 'manly' ketsui mecha imho.

The music isn't bad, it may not be as iconic as some of the doj stuff, but its not unsuitable.

Black label should have been included, but I'm not outraged by that given the decent arrange modes.

I'd say just try and get along with bomb mode: It used to piss me off and seem almost to be violating the game. But it is something whose offense definately lessens to a mere mechanic after time... True I don't know why you can't turn it off somewhere, but then that leads to another thing I want an option to change:

I want to have the option to rescale/move/disappear that massive huge score/hit area. I know its kind of see through and I know its a key part to scoring - but ffs - that big with no options?

And - not that I should be seeing it - but that continue screen is ugly.

[mjemirzian]

There have been how many daifukkatsus released? And all but one of them (arrange A) is a hyper spamming mess?

Time to scrap it and start over, Cave!

[Imhotep]

I think Black Label in Strong Mode looks really exciting.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13266707

[Despatche]

That took long enough.

There have been how many daifukkatsus released?

-The original arcade game and its Black Label.
-The 360 ports for the original and Black Label.
-The iPhone/iPad conversion.

And all but one of them (arrange A) is a hyper spamming mess?

Because it's somewhat based on DOJ.

Time to scrap it and start over, Cave!

Sorry, this game is doing pretty well for CAVE, as you can obviously see.

[kernow]

dfk is alright, no ibara or batrider though is it.

[Skykid]

dfk is alright, no ibara or batrider though is it.

No it isn't. I'd rather have my knuckles skinned quickly and fiercely by Ibara than commit myself to the much more drawn out exercise of DFK.

Time to scrap it and start over, Cave!

Sorry, this game is doing pretty well for CAVE, as you can obviously see.

I'm actually curious about this. iphone versions aside, did DFK do really well in Japan in the arcade? And how are port sales compared to the other Cave releases, is it doing as well as Futari?

Just wondering about Japan's reception is all. I think Elixir noted something earlier in the thread that Ikeda was sick of the game. I'm not sure if this was taken out of context, but if you could elaborate on that I'd be very interested to hear about it.

Thanks.

[brentsg]

LOL @ people trashing BL by watching master players rape it after they've had a year to pick it apart.

Seriously, maybe it's just some of the attitude on this forum, but I can't help but wonder if perhaps it's time for the genre to die off. Were lucky to get more than a couple releases a year now and all people want to do is bitch.

DOJ BL has issues.
Espgaluda 2 got a mixed reception.
Ketsui did not live up to the hype for many
DS IIX was too ugly
DFK is too easy and too hard, and meh.. Apparently
DFK BL is already being fussed about
I guarantee a lot of folks will be turned off by MMP and PS
AK is going to be too short, and OMG bullet reflecting sucks

At least people liked Futari and DS.

[dan76]

You mean this bullshit?

That looks fantastic! Sure there's hyper cancelling but it's not like power mode is it. Some fine dodging in there - plus without autobomb the risk/reward is more balanced.

[PROMETHEUS]

I've seen some Strong Mode superplay video of Black Label and I couldn't believe what I saw. Complete bullshit. The player never dodged anything, he was just standing at the top of the screen for 30 seconds cancelling bullets, then he moved a little, not much happened, and at the smallest danger, bam, he's back into hyper mode for 30 seconds not moving, cancelling stuff. Even on the stage 5 boss he barely dodged a single pattern without invicibility. It just seems really easy and stupid. Isn't it supposed to be the hardest mode in Black Label ?

You mean this bullshit?

Yes ! So boring and dumb. Dodging is happening less than 10% of the time o_o

LOL @ people trashing BL by watching master players rape it after they've had a year to pick it apart.

Nope, problem is for a game to be good, execution of the high scoring routes need to be fun, or difficult. In the case of DFK BL, it's clearly mostly extremely easy and tedious. Figure out all of the stupid spots where you have to use cancel / stand with hyper invincibility for 30seconds, then... get bored in the execution. I don't find it interesting in the least.

It's pretty established to anyone who's been paying attention by now, that any time Yagawa gets out of his comfort zone (Rank heavy medal chaining), the result is usually a mess. It's too bad, really.

(If you're wondering what relevancy this has, Yagawa did DFK Black Label)

Aaaaah I didn't know that... Well that explains things for me, I think I hate all Yagawa games.

[david peterson]

Aaaaah I didn't know that... Well that explains things for me, I hate all Yagawa games.

I hate all people who play on keyboards with no display of skill on the intended arcade setup.
Look guise im playing table tennis with a cricket bat ! much better.

[PROMETHEUS]

Aaaaah I didn't know that... Well that explains things for me, I hate all Yagawa games.

I hate all people who play on keyboards with no display of skill on the intended arcade setup.
Look guise im playing table tennis with a cricket bat ! much better.

What are you insulting me for ? I didn't criticize you, only games I don't like. It doesn't mean I hate people who play and love them (on the contrary, I really don't, of course.). Those games are just not to my personal tastes.

By the way I play totally fine on "intended arcade setup", thank you. Not that the "intended" way to play has any relevance. Developpers make the games, I play them the way I want to.

[Udderdude]

I think Black Label in Strong Mode looks really exciting.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13266707

I have to admit, that looks pretty cool.

[Skykid]

Aaaaah I didn't know that... Well that explains things for me, I hate all Yagawa games.

I hate all people who play on keyboards with no display of skill on the intended arcade setup.
Look guise im playing table tennis with a cricket bat ! much better.

Dude, wtf? This is Prometheus we're talking about. He could probably destroy all of us on Dodonpachi using a Atari 2600 paddle if he wanted to.

[brentsg]

Aaaaah I didn't know that... Well that explains things for me, I hate all Yagawa games.

I hate all people who play on keyboards with no display of skill on the intended arcade setup.
Look guise im playing table tennis with a cricket bat ! much better.

Dude, wtf? This is Prometheus we're talking about. He could probably destroy all of us on Dodonpachi using a Atari 2600 paddle if he wanted to.

Let's see him do it with an Atari 7800 stick without serious injury, and NOT THE EU PAD.

[Despatche]

DOJ BL has issues.
Espgaluda 2 got a mixed reception.
Ketsui did not live up to the hype for many
DS IIX was too ugly
DFK is too easy and too hard, and meh.. Apparently
DFK BL is already being fussed about
I guarantee a lot of folks will be turned off by MMP and PS
AK is going to be too short, and OMG bullet reflecting sucks

The odd one out is quite obvious!

I hate all people who play on keyboards with no display of skill on the intended arcade setup.

Look guise im playing table tennis with a cricket bat ! much better.

Uh.

I'm not quite sure you really understand what you've just said. Good luck figuring it out, though...

[kernow]

Cave Cave, Cave Cave Cave, personally I think Cave Cave, Cave Cave Cave Cave Cave. Ah yes but Cave though, they Cave Cave, Cave Cave Cave. Do you see? Cave Cave.

[Drachenherz]

Cave Cave, Cave Cave Cave, personally I think Cave Cave, Cave Cave Cave Cave Cave. Ah yes but Cave though, they Cave Cave, Cave Cave Cave. Do you see? Cave Cave.

You forgot to mention that cave produces very good games.