Anyone else feeling the Daifukkatsu meh?

[Strider77]

If auto bombing makes it so easy and awful.... then use power mode. If that mode is to hard for you... then, hell I don't even get it really. It's like when folks bitch about Futari BL's maniac being to easy but are scared of god mode.

Brentsg summed up my feelings pretty much verbatim with his last few posts.

But if I correctly summarize your feelings, it seems like you prefer to be kicked in the nuts straight away (DOJ). DFK 1.5 seems much more approachable, and it is. But there is still very much to learn, it's just hidden under the guise of an easy survival clear.

I also bet that many people who complain about autobomb and "easy" difficulty are spending most of their time with strong mode.

By all means, play what you want, avoid what isn't fun. But seriously, trying to dissect everything and put words around it when you haven't played enough to understand it .. is silly.

He kinda busted you with that one also.....

Let's just all agree that DFK is awesome when compared to Trigger Heart, now that's garbage.

[njiska]

If auto bombing makes it so easy and awful.... then use power mode. If that mode is to hard for you... then, hell I don't even get it really. It's like when folks bitch about Futari BL's maniac being to easy but are scared of god mode.

I think what's putting people off in this case is the lack of a traditional mode. If strong had powered up weapons and no auto bomb the whole experience would have probably gone over better.

[dan76]

Let's just all agree that DFK is awesome when compared to Trigger Heart, now that's garbage.

very true but...

I think what's putting people off in this case is the lack of a traditional mode. If strong had powered up weapons and no auto bomb the whole experience would have probably gone over better.

Exactamundo!

[nZero]

Let's just all agree that DFK is awesome when compared to Trigger Heart, now that's garbage.

[adversity1]

If strong had powered up weapons and no auto bomb the whole experience would have probably gone over better.

Yeah!!

Shame that Power doesn't have that! Oh wait.

[brentsg]

If strong had powered up weapons and no auto bomb the whole experience would have probably gone over better.

Yeah!!

Shame that Power doesn't have that! Oh wait.

There has been an adverse sighting.

[TonK]

I'm kinda in SkyKids boat on this one.

I was actually on the phone while playing DFK one night, and didn't even know I 1CC'd it.

Very underwhelming 1CC for me.

Now, don't get me wrong, the game is fun. I really like it - but everything SkyKid said about scoring applies to me as well.

I'm still trying to "get" the scoring - and I'm a decent player.

If I lose a chain on stage 1, I have to start over.

I'm not a good scorer at DFK at all, and it really frustrates me.

Even though I can 1CC it, there's no satisfaction there.

I was looking to trade my kit off for something else, but I think I'm gona try some more to score.

I really want to try BL.

[Emuser]

Yeah!!

Shame that Power doesn't have that! Oh wait.

Adverse! Where have you been, I didn't see you once last year!

I'm surprised no one has brought up power ships yet, I'm having a ton more fun with this game after learning how to play the power ship. It's harder of course, but it effectively addresses the issue of any "lack of challenge" one could make.

[Icarus]

So I'm guessing the people complaining about the game being easy/underwhelming are playing as Strong type? And complaints about autobomb? I would have thought some players would have appreciated the addition of something to help them survive longer. Yeah, it's a nuisance on occasion, but if you're playing through the game relying on autobomb to get you through difficult spots all the time, perhaps you should try moving off Bomb/Strong and playing Power instead, no?

And stage5 is one of the most entertaining stages I've played in a long while. Those laser discs give you fun obstructions in a vert - usually unheard of outside of the likes of Guwange and Image Fight - and yes, agreed, they can be tricky to deal with, but if someone like me can work out and execute a full-chain route through the whole stage on an iPhone, it can't be all that difficult, right? (And the four stages prior to st5 are already very challenging to score in when playing as Power.}

[antares]

I imagine the situation at Cave when developing DFK something like this:

Cave marketing guy: "People aren't playing our games anymore. They are complaining about the harsh difficulty. Our next game has to be really easy to attract more casual gamers to it."
Cave programmer: "Yes, but what about our hardcore fans and the super-players? They want our new game to be even more challenging than the last ones."

And the outcome was DFK: piss easy to 1CC but even harder and more frustrating to play for score than previous games in the series.
So casual shmuppers were happy and hardcore players were happy. But everyone in the middle is feeling meh.

[Frederik]

Fuck, do I ever hate the word "meh". I wish people would instead pick words like "underwhelming", or "not impressive". Or "disappointing". Or "mediocre". Or "middling". Or "bloody bloomin bollocks".

Anything other than "meh".

Anyways, rant over. Carry on.

[CptRansom]

I'd like to carry on, but...

Meh.

[EPS21]

I agree with the scoring part, it sucks to go through a decent run and then die or drop a chain somewhere and then your score is pretty much fucked for the whole stage. Even though in practice I can stage all the first loop stages but the 5th, in a full run I screw up somewhere and can be quite rage inducing. Everything else about the game is awesome.

[Skykid]

He kinda busted you with that one also.....

No one's busted me, I busted DFK. With this thread.

I may have opened the door but you're all invited to look at other people's feedback too y'know. Jesus.

[TLB]

I imagine the situation at Cave when developing DFK something like this:

Cave marketing guy: "People aren't playing our games anymore. They are complaining about the harsh difficulty. Our next game has to be really easy to attract more casual gamers to it."
Cave programmer: "Yes, but what about our hardcore fans and the super-players? They want our new game to be even more challenging than the last ones."

And the outcome was DFK: piss easy to 1CC but even harder and more frustrating to play for score than previous games in the series.
So casual shmuppers were happy and hardcore players were happy. But everyone in the middle is feeling meh.

Are you sure? If that were so, nobody here would be complaining.

[captpain]

I agree with the scoring part, it sucks to go through a decent run and then die or drop a chain somewhere and then your score is pretty much fucked for the whole stage. Even though in practice I can stage all the first loop stages but the 5th, in a full run I screw up somewhere and can be quite rage inducing. Everything else about the game is awesome.

I honestly do not understand why people keep posting this. If you fuck up a chain in DDP, DOJ, and apparently DFK too (same series, who'da thunk) your score is largely ruined.

[EPS21]

I agree with the scoring part, it sucks to go through a decent run and then die or drop a chain somewhere and then your score is pretty much fucked for the whole stage. Even though in practice I can stage all the first loop stages but the 5th, in a full run I screw up somewhere and can be quite rage inducing. Everything else about the game is awesome.

I honestly do not understand why people keep posting this. If you fuck up a chain in DDP, DOJ, and apparently DFK too (same series, who'da thunk) your score is largely ruined.

Maybe its just me largely because I'm not playing DDP or DOJ at the moment, and am seriously trying to score in DFK at the moment, whereas the former two games I haven't tried to score in them so much to get full stage chaining down. Its more of a headache trying to get the full chains in the earlier games than DFK though.

But even so, DFK is different in that if you die somewhere in the early stages (easy to do in Power) it can throw you out of the ura loop for the next stages, and those ura midbosses are pretty important for scoring. The earlier pachi's even if you screw up an early stage, you can make up for it in the next stage, and that's not exactly the case in DFK.

[Icarus]

While I can see why everyone wants/thinks Black Label is/will be better than ver1.5 - single loop game, Ura loop bullet patterns etc - one thing people don't realise is that, when playing for score, Black Label is even more anally retentive than ver1.5 is, especially when you include more bullet-cancelling targets (certain enemies, bee medals), and in the case of Power type ships, scoring is relegated to sitting in one place, usually off the side of the screen, and spamming Hyper to cancel bullets into point items. Much like Espgaluda 2 Arrange, the game is changed from something that is free-flowing, into a point item milking fest.

I'll actually be quite amused when, come February, this thread is repeated almost word for word, with "Black Label" replacing "ver1.5" being the only difference in the comments.

[Strider77]

Now, don't get me wrong, the game is fun. I really like it - but everything SkyKid said about scoring applies to me as well.

I'm still trying to "get" the scoring - and I'm a decent player.

If I lose a chain on stage 1, I have to start over.

I'm not a good scorer at DFK at all, and it really frustrates me.

I get what you are saying.... but your not raving about DOJ which is WAY more harsh and frustrating as far as score goes.

Side note, I still don't get why folks HAVE to play strong and need no auto bombs in that mode when power mode is sitting right there. I guess it's that folks still want bombs period... just no auto bombing, I get that and would prefer it also. Although it doesn't begin to ruin the game for me. I'll probably like BL more than 1.5 also.

No one's busted me, I busted DFK. With this thread.

I may have opened the door but you're all invited to look at other people's feedback too y'know. Jesus.

Skykid busts DFK > Brent busts Skykid > Skykid busts me > I bust on Trigger Heart.... alll kinds of busting up in here!!!

[brentsg]

Skykid busts DFK > Brent busts Skykid > Skykid busts me > I bust on Trigger Heart.... alll kinds of busting up in here!!!

You forgot the part where adverse posted just enough that we'd all know he was laughing at us.

[Strider77]

I did miss that.....

Skykid no hard feelings... I feel like I've been on your case a bit recently. It's not a "habit" per say, it's just you've been on a few things that I enjoy's cases recently.

Now back to more busting, then again maybe we should leave the busting to the leader boards.

[Danza]

I am with SkyKid on this one.

The argument that because someone sucks they hate the game are really silly in my opinion.

An individual criticising the game because it is bordering on being a convoluted mess is legitimate I think. It isn't an objective statement, but a subjective comment. I feel "meh" about DFK because to me, the scoring system is unbalanced and intricate in irritating and "un-fun" ways. Would there be as much controversy if people said they didn't enjoy Espgaluda II because of the scoring system or what?

The bosses are uninspired and generally make me feel "meh" as well. Stage 5 boss (if you don't trigger Ura) is so underwhelming I don't even feel like it is the end of the Loop. I don't know any other way to put it other than it feels uninspired.

I won't go through and repeat everything else that has already been said, but another thing that bugs me is that the first loop could pretty much end up like the first 2 stages of Futari.

Anyways.

[TLB]

I am with SkyKid on this one.

The argument that because someone sucks they hate the game are really silly in my opinion.

An individual criticising the game because it is bordering on being a convoluted mess is legitimate I think. It isn't an objective statement, but a subjective comment. I feel "meh" about DFK because to me, the scoring system is unbalanced and intricate in irritating and "un-fun" ways. Would there be as much controversy if people said they didn't enjoy Espgaluda II because of the scoring system or what?

The bosses are uninspired and generally make me feel "meh" as well. Stage 5 boss (if you don't trigger Ura) is so underwhelming I don't even feel like it is the end of the Loop. I don't know any other way to put it other than it feels uninspired.

I won't go through and repeat everything else that has already been said, but another thing that bugs me is that the first loop could pretty much end up like the first 2 stages of Futari.

Anyways.

I don't understand. Nobody I can recall seeing complain about it can score anywhere near well enough to critique the scoring system. If you don't know what the fuck is going on, how can you criticize?. Also guys Garegga, Batrider, Bakraid, Ibara, Galuda 2, Guwange, et al all fucking suck because their scoring systems are too full of shit to know. Honestly, christ the jesus, the game is pretty straightforward. Stand behind somebody who knows how to play for a few minutes and they will show you a path to chain. Chain it. It's not hard. What "intricacies" are you guys talking about? How necessary are they to getting a halfway respectable score? Odds are, they aren't. Just learn to chain 1-5 and bam, you've beaten most of shunsp forum.

Also let's bitch about how the game is so fucking easy when there are two loops. Hello?

[antares]

Also guys Garegga, Batrider, Bakraid, Ibara, Galuda 2, Guwange, et al all fucking suck because their scoring systems are too full of shit to know.

I still think there is a difference between these games and DFK. For example if you are a decent player in Espgaluda 2 and could get say 400 mills through the game. If you fuck up once every stage your score will be 200 mills at the end instead of 400. But if you fuck up in DFK once every stage your score will be 10 bills at the end of the first loop instead of 100 bills.
Of course a top player at the upper end of the scale would restart if he fucks up once no matter if it is ESP2 or DFK.

[Danza]

I don't understand. Nobody I can recall seeing complain about it can score anywhere near well enough to critique the scoring system. If you don't know what the fuck is going on, how can you criticize?. Also guys Garegga, Batrider, Bakraid, Ibara, Galuda 2, Guwange, et al all fucking suck because their scoring systems are too full of shit to know. Honestly, christ the jesus, the game is pretty straightforward. Stand behind somebody who knows how to play for a few minutes and they will show you a path to chain. Chain it. It's not hard. What "intricacies" are you guys talking about? How necessary are they to getting a halfway respectable score? Odds are, they aren't. Just learn to chain 1-5 and bam, you've beaten most of shunsp forum.

Also let's bitch about how the game is so fucking easy when there are two loops. Hello?

You are making assumptions about people's understanding of the scoring system. The logic of your post more or less dictates that if you do understand the scoring system, you can't have a negative opinion of it. Which is absurd. Understanding how the scoring system works, but not being overly fond of it is what people seem to be saying.

As for the difficulty, I'm saying the first loop is a piece of piss (scoring aside I guess), and it will get redundant working through it each time to get to Ura loop (especially after learning to chain 1-5). Surely this isn't so hard to understand? I admit it may be something of a petty remark or somewhat misguided, but still.

Also, take it easy.

[EPS21]

I don't understand. Nobody I can recall seeing complain about it can score anywhere near well enough to critique the scoring system. If you don't know what the fuck is going on, how can you criticize?. Also guys Garegga, Batrider, Bakraid, Ibara, Galuda 2, Guwange, et al all fucking suck because their scoring systems are too full of shit to know. Honestly, christ the jesus, the game is pretty straightforward. Stand behind somebody who knows how to play for a few minutes and they will show you a path to chain. Chain it. It's not hard. What "intricacies" are you guys talking about? How necessary are they to getting a halfway respectable score? Odds are, they aren't. Just learn to chain 1-5 and bam, you've beaten most of shunsp forum.

Also let's bitch about how the game is so fucking easy when there are two loops. Hello?

You are making assumptions about people's understanding of the scoring system. The logic of your post more or less dictates that if you do understand the scoring system, you can't have a negative opinion of it. Which is absurd. Understanding how the scoring system works, but not being overly fond of it is what people seem to be saying.

As for the difficulty, I'm saying the first loop is a piece of piss (scoring aside I guess), and it will get redundant working through it each time to get to Ura loop (especially after learning to chain 1-5). Surely this isn't so hard to understand? I admit it may be something of a petty remark or somewhat misguided, but still.

Also, take it easy.

Maybe its because, anyone who put in enough to understand the scoring system (ACTUALLY understand it, not just hurr durr its all chaining and bullet cancelling) probably liked the game enough initially to get that far, and everyone else who was put off by something (auto-bomb, strong mode, loli bosses, the scoring, whatever) just didn't like it enough to learn the system. Granted those in the opinion of the latter should be ignored if they don't even try to learn the game before judging it.

and it will get redundant working through it each time to get to Ura loop (especially after learning to chain 1-5).

Doesn't every looping game "get redundant" if you can consistently score well in the first loop then? By the time one can do that the first loop will be piss easy compared to the 2nd.

[Skykid]

I did miss that.....

Skykid no hard feelings... I feel like I've been on your case a bit recently. It's not a "habit" per say, it's just you've been on a few things that I enjoy's cases recently.

Now back to more busting, then again maybe we should leave the busting to the leader boards.

That's cool dude. To be honest I do enjoy debating and talking stuff out with people here, but it perplexes me when if I feel there's some tension or it's getting personal. I'm cursed by my own opinions most of the time: I find very little translates graciously in forum speak.

If we were sitting in a bar having this debate, it wouldn't seem anywhere near as highly strung.

As for you, Strider-san, I'm not trying to single out things that you like as things that I don't! I played that C:LOS right through cos of you, and liked it more than I though I would. Same with Inception.

If Icarus's skills and tutoring turn DFK around for me after Saturday, I'll come on here and say so.

[Icarus]

Of course a top player at the upper end of the scale would restart if he fucks up once no matter if it is ESP2 or DFK.

Actually, a top player at the upper end of the scale won't restart at all, so he/she can practice the later stages without wasting time traipsing through earlier ones. Just so you know.

[Paradigm]

I'm pretty sure antares was referring to a player making a scoring run, not simply playing for practice. In which case, yes, I think it's quite likely they would restart after making an early mistake.

Either way though, there is no rule for this sort of thing, it's purely dependant upon the player and his/her own individual mindset.

[Icarus]

And I was referring to a player that is making a scoring run, because the really high level players make good use of their time and credits, rather than restarting a thousand times on stage 1 for even the slightest error. High scores come naturally as you gain more familiarity and comfort with stages, and restarting for relatively minor problems slows down your progression. My best score on iOS Daifukkatsu (109bil, 2-2 URA, Normal diff.), was gained after completely fucking up stage4. FYI.