Anyone else feeling the Daifukkatsu meh?

[cools]

Maniac 1.5 never clicked with me, vastly prefer it in BL.

Which sums it up, it's subjective. There's stuff in DFK I really don't like. I love Pink Sweets for a whole pile of "wrong" reasons. Progear isn't fun for me. Ibara's wonderful yet I rarely make it past L2 without serious practice.

No Cave shmup could be called a poor game by anyone attempting an objective STG review (good luck with that), but arguing our personal opinions is always good fun.

[spadgy]

Often a hard 1CC ends my relationship with a game

This coming from the guy who can 1cc JP Progear. No walk in the park. Why be apprehensive of hard games ever again?

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. What I meant was 'often, once I've achieved a hard 1CC my relationship with the game ends'. I seem to quickly move on after getting a tough 1CC. In contrast, when a 1CC is easy but there's plenty of opportunity after that to score high, I seem to stick around longer overall.

I'm certainly trying to up my game with tough 1CC's. I'd love to do DOJ this year. We'll see.

Overall though, I play for score rather than survival. I do like to get a 1CC a great deal of course, but I've never done well at playing for survival to get a 1CC, before switching over to playing for score. I can't resist reading STs and so on from the very first credit I play. For that kind of approach, DFK seems great thus far.

[Lance Boyle]

No Cave shmup could be called a poor game by anyone attempting an objective STG review

How exactly would one go about writing an "objective review", and could you link an example of one?

[BulletMagnet]

How exactly would one go about writing an "objective review", and could you link an example of one?

I think the keyword in that phrase is "attempting".

[cools]

And the "good luck" in parentheses immediately after

[Skykid]

And the "good luck" in parentheses immediately after

Nobody actually reads anything on forums, they just pass comment unnecessarily.
This thread being a fine example of such activity.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Sorry, I did misunderstand the point, I thought you meant the tough 1CC was offputting.

As far as 1cc'ing DOJ this year, race?

[apple arcade]

Often a hard 1CC ends my relationship with a game

In contrast, when a 1CC is easy but there's plenty of opportunity after that to score high, I seem to stick around longer overall.

I'm certainly trying to up my game with tough 1CC's. I'd love to do DOJ this year. We'll see.

I agree. IE Deathsmiles IIX.

Good luck with DOJ.

I've been playing over a year now and still can't reach the 5th stage.

[spadgy]

As far as 1cc'ing DOJ this year, race?

It worked well for Progear right?

You've got a bit of a head start though eh (in that you're already pretty tasty at DOJ)? I tell you what; once I retrieve my PCB from Casino arcade, we'll call that the starter's gun!

[Skykid]

As far as 1cc'ing DOJ this year, race?

It worked well for Progear right?

You've got a bit of a head start though eh (in that you're already pretty tasty at DOJ)? I tell you what; once I retrieve my PCB from Casino arcade, we'll call that the starter's gun!

Edit: Hm, it's not going to work I just realised.

To be honest we'll probably both fail anyway, not sure 12 months is enough.

[gs68]

Also, people are complaining about bullet canceling, but doesn't Black Label have even more?

Cancelling bullets by killing enemies is fun. Cancelling bullets with Hyper shot, on the other hand, is so gratuitous, and encourages the aforementioned midboss milking.

[DragonInstall]

Also, people are complaining about bullet canceling, but doesn't Black Label have even more?

Cancelling bullets by killing enemies is fun. Cancelling bullets with Hyper shot, on the other hand, is so gratuitous, and encourages the aforementioned midboss milking.

Couldn't agree more with this.

[chempop]

Ahhh gotcha, makes sense. I guess that's why Arrange A feels better in some ways to me, because you are encouraged to NOT cancel bullets while in hyper unless you need to for survival. I still very much enjoy 1.5 although anything past 2-2 gets a bit ridiculous for me, thank goodness for autobomb lol

[brentsg]

Also, people are complaining about bullet canceling, but doesn't Black Label have even more?

Cancelling bullets by killing enemies is fun. Cancelling bullets with Hyper shot, on the other hand, is so gratuitous, and encourages the aforementioned midboss milking.

Canceling bullets by grabbing bees is fun as well. It introduces an element of timing and the risk/reward thing, particularly when going for large stars.

[Frederik]

Starting to think the iPhone mode is better. o-o

So how is the iPhone mode actually? The iPhone modes on both Espgaluda II and DFK looked pretty janky to me when I watched the PVs, but some people really seem to like it on EspII, and after reading up on it the mix between bullet scraping and rapid enemy killing (with the complete lack of any chaining going on) sounds quite interesting. (The spinning stuff for the hyper cannon still looks a bit retarded, though )

[chempop]

So how is the iPhone mode actually?

Worth it for playable Hibachi

And yes, the spinnyshit for hypering is lame.

[Skykid]

Starting to think the iPhone mode is better. o-o

So how is the iPhone mode actually? The iPhone modes on both Espgaluda II and DFK looked pretty janky to me when I watched the PVs, but some people really seem to like it on EspII, and after reading up on it the mix between bullet scraping and rapid enemy killing (with the complete lack of any chaining going on) sounds quite interesting. (The spinning stuff for the hyper cannon still looks a bit retarded, though )

Espgaluda II is really good on iphone, genuinely enjoyable. Scoring is basically the same as its big brother, only slightly easier because you can move more speedily. That allows you to go nuts in zesshikai overdrive and wash the screen clean with golden points. You need to get a handle on expert (4 button) controls to make the most of it though.

[Strider77]

DFK 1.5 feels like it's got all the hard work and little of the enjoyment in the scoring dept because it's so freaking thankless and the ship types are all fucked up by having no straightforward bombs. I really think the bomb implementation in the game is poor judgement on Cave's part.

That surprises me considering how much you rave about DOJ.... the scoring in that game is FAR more of a pain and chore. I hate the scoring in the old pachi's to the point of not even remotely bothering when I play them.

[Skykid]

DFK 1.5 feels like it's got all the hard work and little of the enjoyment in the scoring dept because it's so freaking thankless and the ship types are all fucked up by having no straightforward bombs. I really think the bomb implementation in the game is poor judgement on Cave's part.

That surprises me considering how much you rave about DOJ.... the scoring in that game is FAR more of a pain and chore. I hate the scoring in the old pachi's to the point of not even remotely bothering when I play them.

I definitely tried to explain myself with regard to this, probably a few times now. DOJ is tough to chain, but learn to put a few decent sections of a stage together and you might not reach the top of the boards, but if you can couple the performance with a decent survival run you have a shot at running with the better numbers. My DOJ BL score was done exactly this way and, inexplicably, pretty quickly after getting the game. DFK's myriad of requirements in addition to chaining and many unorthodox attempts to mix up its game is what I find less comfortable to hang with. And screwing up full stage chains or missing ura bosses pretty much means you can't even see the scoreboards. I prefer simpler parameters i suppose.

But look, I'm only summarising a handful of reasons better outlined and fleshed out by the majority of posters in this thread. Most comments are closely related in criticisms - I just opened the thread to see if anyone felt the same. And most do, so question answered.

[captpain]

I definitely tried to explain myself with regard to this, probably a few times now. DOJ is tough to chain, but learn to put a few decent sections of a stage together and you might not reach the top of the boards, but if you can couple the performance with a decent survival run you have a shot at running with the better numbers. My DOJ BL score was done exactly this way and, inexplicably, pretty quickly after getting the game.

Your ~58 million score, or something higher? (btw I don't know how to ask this without sounding like a dick, but 58 million is not anywhere near "running with the better numbers", it's what you should get from barely any chaining)

[Despatche]

This is for the heck of it but ah I'd be a lot happier if people would just use "Resurrection" to refer to the iGame and "Daifukkatsu" to refer to the arcade game and 360 port of that. I'm sure you understand...

[Skykid]

I definitely tried to explain myself with regard to this, probably a few times now. DOJ is tough to chain, but learn to put a few decent sections of a stage together and you might not reach the top of the boards, but if you can couple the performance with a decent survival run you have a shot at running with the better numbers. My DOJ BL score was done exactly this way and, inexplicably, pretty quickly after getting the game.

Your ~58 million score, or something higher? (btw I don't know how to ask this without sounding like a dick, but 58 million is not anywhere near "running with the better numbers", it's what you should get from barely any chaining)

Exactly, I barely can chain! That's my best score to date, almost got to the last boss. I don't want to be misunderstood, I'm under no illusions that's a great score and I'd rather see the 1st loop clear on that game than anything else. But I enjoy the combination of survival to progress in addition to basic chaining - that was enough to get me on the scoreboard (which is what I meant by 'better numbers' - I suppose I'd consider worse numbers not registering on the board at all.)

It ain't 200mil+, but I'm happy with it. For now.

[Taylor]

I don't see how you can sing DOJ's praises, then describe DFK's score system and say it's too anal. Or claim that DOJ intertwines score and progression, when it actually just forces you to chain the first two stages for extends, a feat harder than chaining the whole of DFK, and memorise the position of every damn enemy after the stage 3 mid-boss.

I tired of futari after about 10 plays, fucking lobsters firing bullets at me wtf.

I know, and I hate the idea of ANY kind of bugs as bosses (no offense towards insects).

[brentsg]

I don't see how you can sing DOJ's praises, then describe DFK's score system and say it's too anal. Or claim that DOJ intertwines score and progression, when it actually just forces you to chain the first two stages for extends, a feat harder than chaining the whole of DFK, and memorise the position of ever damn enemy after the stage 3 mid-boss.

Well he's comparing a game that's been kicking his ass for years to one he didn't figure out, and wrote off in 2 weeks.


By all means, play what you want, avoid what isn't fun. But seriously, trying to dissect everything and put words around it when you haven't played enough to understand it .. is silly.

[Skykid]

I don't see how you can sing DOJ's praises, then describe DFK's score system and say it's too anal. Or claim that DOJ intertwines score and progression, when it actually just forces you to chain the first two stages for extends, a feat harder than chaining the whole of DFK, and memorise the position of ever damn enemy after the stage 3 mid-boss.

Well he's comparing a game that's been kicking his ass for years to one he didn't figure out, and wrote off in 2 weeks.

No, no, no!

Hate internet 'conversation', so this one is over. For more information, there are four pages of thread here with a painful amount of repetition.

[brentsg]

I don't see how you can sing DOJ's praises, then describe DFK's score system and say it's too anal. Or claim that DOJ intertwines score and progression, when it actually just forces you to chain the first two stages for extends, a feat harder than chaining the whole of DFK, and memorise the position of ever damn enemy after the stage 3 mid-boss.

Well he's comparing a game that's been kicking his ass for years to one he didn't figure out, and wrote off in 2 weeks.

No, no, no!

Hate internet 'conversation', so this one is over. For more information, there are four pages of thread here with a painful amount of repetition.

The point is that DFK requires a lot of memorization and learning to play properly. There's no way that most people have had enough time with the port to do that. It's really just not as straightforward and easy as it seems, except of course when played for survival. It's also not surprising that many people won't "get it", especially since it's such a long-ass 2 loop game.

But if I correctly summarize your feelings, it seems like you prefer to be kicked in the nuts straight away (DOJ). DFK 1.5 seems much more approachable, and it is. But there is still very much to learn, it's just hidden under the guise of an easy survival clear.

I also bet that many people who complain about autobomb and "easy" difficulty are spending most of their time with strong mode.

[DragonInstall]

I still don't understand why people hate auto bomb so much. Whats so bad about it? How is it any different than if you would of gotten hit? It still fucks up your score.

[captpain]

I still don't understand why people hate auto bomb so much. Whats so bad about it? How is it any different than if you would of gotten hit? It still fucks up your score.

To me it's almost like having a health bar.

[Udderdude]

DFK = Cave's first euroshmup :D

[njiska]

I still don't understand why people hate auto bomb so much. Whats so bad about it? How is it any different than if you would of gotten hit? It still fucks up your score.

Well if you play for survival it's an issue because it greatly decreases the difficulty. It also creates an unwanted comfort zone.
In modes like DFK BLs Strong it can also leave you at a tactical disadvantage due to the higher bomb consumption. Though this is a nice way to balance the aforementioned difficulty issue.
For score I don't really see how it has an impact, theoretically if you were going to get hit the death or bomb penalty would be the same or worse anyways.

DFK = Cave's first euroshmup

Oh come now, that's not completely fair. At least your hit box isn't larger than the ship.

[dan76]

Having an auto bomb greatly reduces any sense of accomplishment from a 1CC - that's a big part of the problem with the game. Auto bomb is fine for novice modes etc, but for the main game it's a killer. For me, the 1CC is more important than score untill I get it. Once I've got the 1CC, and if I've enjoyed the game I'll go for score. Most cave games are difficult enough, which make scoring well in them an even greater accomplishment - but not with this, it holds your hand all the way through.

That's the problem, though reading through some of these posts other players put a lot more emphasis just on score and don't mind being "nursed" to the 1CC/2-ALL - so I guess you'll get more from it.

One of the great things about shmups is that at their most basic, the idea is to not get hit and shoot stuff (I'm paraphrasing that fella from M2 - I think). It's simple, it works, always has done, always will. Auto bomb gives you something like 12 lives... what kind of a challenge is that? Makes you feel useless for not getting a 1CC rather than feeling good about reaching a stage 3 boss.

Anyhoo - Black label seems to have addressed most of the grumbles - except for the hyper bullet cancelling. Not long to wait...