Touhou project games

[Despatche]

The only good Touhou games are the PC98 ones! I guess Seihou is also ok.

pc-98 games are more fun to play than windows games somehow

seihou is just a giant troll to the doujin industry

I think even ZUN disapproves the obsessive fans who don't play the games, mentioned somewhere that he feels like Touhou has strayed too far from its roots, but who knows. I guess it's admirable that he still wants to keep the games "underground" and doesn't want to profit from licensing, could be a very rich man otherwise

he also doesn't like the creative people who refuse to move past touhou, claiming that they're wasting their talents on the silly little games he makes for himself

huh, just because someone likes something you're not into, that makes it stupid?

i'm a shmup player, manga reader and figurine collector and touhou has all those three things that i like...

you are one of the true fans I'm talking about

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I keep watching YouTube shmups vids and I have NEVER seen anybody dissing ANY coin-op game (any game at all in fact) based on them looking less difficult than Touhou. Those "Touhou fans" beings allegedly doing so are the Black Volga of shmups in my book.

I have on quite a number of shmups videos, its usually on shmup vids where the shmup in question is thought to be hard by the poster or those commenting, usually its one of 3 comments, ie "this is just like touhou", "this is a touhou ripp off!", "bah touhou is way harder"

Would be awesome if cave could work with the creators of touhou to make a game. Although I don't really like touhou's game play, I do think some of the characters are awesome and would like to see a touhou theme Cave style game.

If that happened and cave made it as hard as say mushi or doj then i wonder how many touhou fans really would play it properlly. It would just give them more ammo to the you tube commenters.

Still theres nothing wrong with the games themselves or those who really do play them, As a lover of doujin games im mostly just sick of seeing it everywhere and with all the cookie cutter touhou fan games, manga and music, comiket really should be called touhouket.

[lmagus]

Most of the skilled touhou players also play all kinds of other shmups..

Anyone who's naive enough to compare Touhou to Futari has never played past normal mode.

[RNGmaster]

The games may be "popular" by doujin standards, but they are not popular by any other standards at all as far as I can tell. First time I stumbled upon the name Touhou would be when I was doing research on shmups and the bullet hell subgenre in particular. Moreover, I keep watching YouTube shmups vids and I have NEVER seen anybody dissing ANY coin-op game (any game at all in fact) based on them looking less difficult than Touhou. Those "Touhou fans" beings allegedly doing so are the Black Volga of shmups in my book.
Granted, I don't read comments on every YouTube vid I watch as reading comments on YouTube is one of the saddest things internet has to offer.

Perfect example here (OyVeey is my account). It's the 5 most recent posts or so.

Aaaand... inb4flamewar. Bring up touhou in this forum, and that's a natural consequence, I guess.

[gs68]

I don't mind the games, it's just that parts of the fandom are just...ugh.

I know someone who isn't even into Touhou, yet thinks I can 1CC Strikers 1945 III because its final stage looks like a Touhou game on Stage 1 Normal. I don't even know what the last stage of S1945III looks like because I'm too busy getting my shit ruined by the time I'm on my 4th or 5th stage.

Oh yeah, and people who try to demonstrate the games (particularly at Touhou anime convention panels) by showing, say, Lunatic difficulty? Hi, you just scared away a good chunk of people from ever playing shmups.

[rancor]

I guess it's admirable that he still wants to keep the games "underground" and doesn't want to profit from licensing, could be a very rich man otherwise

So what about the Touhou branded rice, plush dolls, keychains, carbonated beverages, toys, calendars, candy, books, and iphone skins... Do those qualify as "licensed" products?

[NzzpNzzp]

The guy who makes Touhou doesn't have anything to do with those things you mentioned. It's just people making products using his characters. He doesn't get anything out of them.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

The guy who makes Touhou doesn't have anything to do with those things you mentioned. It's just people making products using his characters. He doesn't get anything out of them.

If he really is allowing others to make money from his IP without taking a cut then he is a drunken fool imo. Either licence it properlly or force them to stop.

[Aliquantic]

I don't mind the games, it's just that parts of the fandom are just...ugh.

This, very much... a large chunk of the fandom is beyond creepy, and that goes far beyond the standard stupid Youtube comments (Look at the Futari TLB "HARDEST VIDEO GAME EVER" for more of that) It helps if you think of Touhou as some sort of sprawling mass of cultural assimilation that just happens to include STGs too, along with pretty much everything known to humankind (most notably some excellent music).

If you want to try Touhou seriously or can walk over Lunatic with only a few deaths, though, remember to play for score Touhou has some very twisted scoring systems often involving grazing bullets and suiciding so it won't be everybody's cup of tea (I only really like PCB and UFO for scoring myself), but it's a highly competitive scene if you check the Royalflare leaderboards.

TrevHead: There's nothing strange about that since people borrowing from other universes is just standard doujin fare... the "weird" thing by money standards is how ZUN has refused to license his universe for commercial adaptations, say anime, even if it would be obviously very popular.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

While I understand that allowing fans to use the IP is the norm (which is one of the great charms about doujin) I see the sale of dolls which advertised at Destructiod and other touhou merchandising as been strictly busness and has nothing to do with fandom. Unless im missunderstanding something somewhere and all these dolls are been made by one fan in his shed or all the profits go to feed starving children.

Still its not my IP its Zuns and he can do what he wants with it. But anyone who might think he hasnt sold out because he doesnt see a penny of the profits is mistaken imo, somebody is making a profit from it which makes it just as bad.

Edit im no Touhou fan and really dont give a shit, im just making an observation

[Drum]

Moreover, I keep watching YouTube shmups vids and I have NEVER seen anybody dissing ANY coin-op game (any game at all in fact) based on them looking less difficult than Touhou.

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet? ... QZuidKexBQ
ctrl+f Touhou and see what you can see, why doncha?

I guess the video name was kinda asking for it, though.

I think some of them might be joking:

So, I read this awesome dickgirl manga and I found out they were from some space shooter called touhou. Now, I couldn't get past the first level, but I watched some videos and in my expert opinion this isn't as hard. Sure everything is faster, bigger, aimed and more compact, and you get less extends, you can't bomb after you get hit and the patterns are more devious. But you gotta play that touhou with one hand. Imagining your favourite touhou's and their hot, giant, thobbing cocks. Can't focus.
wondersquare 1 week ago

@Pyhankoski I'm sorry, I get so passionate when I'm thinking about my touhous. My favourite touhou is Mokou because she is really cute, and like a pheonix, and sometimes she makes a huge penis out of fire and has hatesex with a Japanese lunar orbiter spacecraft. It’s unlikely Gensokyo exists but Pascal’s Wager tells me I should I post strong yet uninformed opinions about her stage difficulty on youtube so, if it does, she will be impressed and we'll have hot straight sex with her burning willy.
wondersquare 1 week ago

[moozooh]

The bullet patterns in the games are boring. They're very slow and either completely memorizable or aimed exactly at the player's hitbox (which means that you just tap to avoid). However, the bullets are multicolored and move in pretty ways, which makes them look much scarier than they actually are. This has deluded a lot of people into thinking that Touhou are the hardest STGs (or even hardest games, period).
They're really freaking popular. Due to the mediocre quality of Touhou games (slow bullets, pretty colors, etc.), it makes fans of other STGs rage when they bring up bullet hell in a conversation and the person they're taking to says "Oh, those tow-how games?"

Hey, I don't see you in the high score forum that often. Are you even playing games for score? Because if you did, you would have noticed that the challenge of Touhou games lies exactly in scoring and not just surviving the patterns. Surely those overly elaborate scoring systems are put there for a reason. Actually, on a high level of competition most of the TH games become painfully similar to Yagawa games (Garegga/Batrider/Ibara in particular) in terms of scoring as you need to use the numerous lives and bombs you get as a scoring resource as opposed to survival aid, and consciously put yourself in even greater danger for greater reward.

Take a look at this Easy mode PCB replay, and if it still looks easy and boring to you, it means you can either come within 2/3 of the final score on a whim, or you don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm guessing the latter, because realistically as much as matching his stage 1 score will have you pulling your hair out.

Perfect example here (OyVeey is my account).

It's kind of ironic you illustrated the point with Psyvariar 2, a game that has slow, boring, pretty-looking patterns that don't pose any threat until you start scoring aggressively. Five-stage 1CC is roughly identical to Touhou on Normal in terms of survival difficulty.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

@ Drum hehe ive noticed a few comments like that aswell, ever since this issue was brought up here while back (partly my fault for ranting) Ive been trolled once or twice on YT. I highly suspect its some of you cunts who take great pleasure in winding up a ranting nerd

So come on own up who was it!

[gs68]

Generally, I don't regard Touhou as a shmup series. It's more like a massive array of doujin stuff (manga, remixes, fanart, etc.) with the shmups satellite to them. After all, most people who are really into TH don't even play the games (or if they do, not very often.)

Then again, I like BlazBlue characters and kinda wanna learn more about the series' plot, yet I don't play fighting games (BB included), so I shouldn't insult Touhou fans who don't play the games just because of that.

[Drum]

@ Drum hehe ive noticed a few comments like that aswell, ever since this issue was brought up here while back (partly my fault for ranting) Ive been trolled once or twice on YT. I highly suspect its some of you cunts who take great pleasure in winding up a ranting nerd

So come on own up who was it!

To be fair, joke comments like that can only exist in a climate created by the genuine article (loli) dickriders, which they are clearly making fun of just as much as they are trolling you.

[Bananamatic]

From what I've seen most good touhou players are really cool guys while the "serious fans" are weeaboos in denial.
Hell, the "I'm in for the loli" guys are 10x cooler than them

[NzzpNzzp]

Perfect example here (OyVeey is my account). It's the 5 most recent posts or so.

Cool example of you talking down a guy's game for being too easy and then trying to make him switch to a different one just because you prefer it. Weren't we talking about how that was a bad thing?

[Despatche]

If he really is allowing others to make money from his IP without taking a cut then he is a drunken fool imo. Either licence it properlly or force them to stop.

apparently japanese copyright law allows the "doujin industry" to even exist and do what it does

also more often than not neither ZUN nor anyone else at comiket actually gets anything except publicity (e.g. Milestone)

Generally, I don't regard Touhou as a shmup series. It's more like a massive array of doujin stuff (manga, remixes, fanart, etc.) with the shmups satellite to them. After all, most people who are really into TH don't even play the games (or if they do, not very often.)

Then again, I like BlazBlue characters and kinda wanna learn more about the series' plot, yet I don't play fighting games (BB included), so I shouldn't insult Touhou fans who don't play the games just because of that.

no you shouldn't you are silly

I regard touhou as a shmup series with some supplemental material (the canon mangas) and that's it

[shadowbringer]

tbh I like other factors of this series besides the gameplay (the setting, the music, and some of the fanwork -- including fangames). This series got me interested in trying to 1cc shmups (I had no clue that they were meant to be 1cc'd, until knowing of the good ending requirements and then seeing that shmups -- Sonic Wings, 1942, B-Wings, etc -- weren't just a lot of stages thrown together without regard for the possibility of getting through them without dying), and made me a bit more interested in japanese culture, folklore, mythology, etc.

Back to the subject of the gameplay, I believed that capturing spellcards, getting through the game with few deaths and many bombs and collecting enough point items would be enough to get a good score, until I've realized that I should graze (or keep a faith meter from dropping). Since I've been struggling with the characters' hitboxes (while I could adapt myself well enough when playing DDP or ESP Ra De.. or even slave ships in RFJ/RF2), trying to graze (or keep the faith meter in MoF) was frustrating in both ways: either I try to graze too much and end dying, hurting my scoring potential, or I feel that I haven't grazed enough.. (I'm too greedy to ignore the opportunities, when I see them..) ..besides, the grazing factor forces me to memorize stages, which is another problem for me. Especially in the Touhou series, where the bgm is sometimes used (and suggested) for this purpose, more than the background..

so I either keep rageretrying, trying to figure out the "correct path" (because my memorization is too unreliable for so many checkpoints to be remembered), or am told to watch replays. The problem (imho) with the latter option is that it's not easy to actually know what the player was aiming for, or if this replay could've been improved in some other way. There aren't any guides regarding to the scoring routes, afaik. Finally, there are some grazing points (which may be known as point-blank grazing or near point-blank grazing) which can give a nice boost to your graze score, but require almost pixel-precision (example: EoSD stage 6's Sakuya's final spellcard, among others such as SA's stage 2's ring spread patterns -- which you use bomb invulnerability to graze them as soon as they spread out from Parsee), besides being prepared in advance for taking such an opportunity.

conclusion.. I like the series, but can't get ungreedy enough to ignore scoring, but a miss when you're not expecting it along the 6 stages will hurt your score, besides the high demand for memorization and execution for grazing, besides being able to handle the attacks without dying or bombing, save for few exceptions.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

@ Despatche my point is that I doubt Touhou dolls, key chains, rice and all the other shit rancor listed isnt doujin or fandom, its strictly busness with those selling them making a profit. I know doujin has become a kind of grey area due to non comiket sales online and retail, but all this merchendising looks non doujin to my laymans eyes.

[RNGmaster]

The bullet patterns in the games are boring. They're very slow and either completely memorizable or aimed exactly at the player's hitbox (which means that you just tap to avoid). However, the bullets are multicolored and move in pretty ways, which makes them look much scarier than they actually are. This has deluded a lot of people into thinking that Touhou are the hardest STGs (or even hardest games, period).
They're really freaking popular. Due to the mediocre quality of Touhou games (slow bullets, pretty colors, etc.), it makes fans of other STGs rage when they bring up bullet hell in a conversation and the person they're taking to says "Oh, those tow-how games?"

Hey, I don't see you in the high score forum that often. Are you even playing games for score?

Moving up there in Progear. Haven't been playing shmups for score that long, and I don't want to jump between a bunch of titles. I'm trying to get good at just Progear ATM. And my Crimzon Clover score ain't too shabby either.

I do appreciate the scoring systems in Touhou. I find UFO's scoring system to be really interesting, and it rewards player skill (I could never figure out how scoring in PCB works). My problem is the people who don't actually play the games but are convinced that they are harder than CAVE or Raizing titles because of higher bullet count and multicolored, pretty patterns. Touhou players who can get high scores on any mode deserve my respect. It's people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about and haven't done their research that are the problem.

Scoring in any game is difficult. Surviving in Touhou games, however, is much easier than doing so in Battle Garegga (for example). Stages are mostly tap-dodging (aside from Stage 4 in MoF, which actually - gasp! - requires U-streaming on higher difficulties), and bosses are damn tough but only on higher difficulties. Lots of people bombspam through Normal mode and are convinced that they are video game gods and it is therefore their right to go on any STG video and say "touhou looks harder than this".

[moozooh]

I do appreciate the scoring systems in Touhou. I find UFO's scoring system to be really interesting, and it rewards player skill (I could never figure out how scoring in PCB works). My problem is the people who don't actually play the games but are convinced that they are harder than CAVE or Raizing titles because of higher bullet count and multicolored, pretty patterns. Touhou players who can get high scores on any mode deserve my respect. It's people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about and haven't done their research that are the problem.

Have you? What's with the talk of mediocre quality, boring patterns and so on, if you completely detach it from the way these games are meant to be played — i. e., for score? As I noted earlier, Psyvariar 2 is for most intents and purposes identical to Touhou games' Normal modes with its difficulty curve. I should know, I cleared it on my 3rd or 4th credit with a score I'm not ashamed of. And you go there having done the research (obviously) and convince a random YouTube user that "Success games like this" are very hard while Touhou games (we don't just mean Normal here, right?) are not. Which means you either aren't comparing them fairly at all or you are being a huge hypocrite.

Scoring in any game is difficult. Surviving in Touhou games, however, is much easier than doing so in Battle Garegga (for example). Stages are mostly tap-dodging (aside from Stage 4 in MoF, which actually - gasp! - requires U-streaming on higher difficulties), and bosses are damn tough but only on higher difficulties. Lots of people bombspam through Normal mode and are convinced that they are video game gods and it is therefore their right to go on any STG video and say "touhou looks harder than this".

I almost start feeling as if your only reason for disregarding the games is your dissatisfaction with some of their fanbase. Because that is so far the only point of yours that makes any sense to me.

[Estebang]

Every self-professed Touhou fan I've met only plays the platformer/RPG/etc. fan games. If they even know that the shmups exist, they just ignore them for being too hard.

[RNGmaster]

Perfect example here (OyVeey is my account). It's the 5 most recent posts or so.

Cool example of you talking down a guy's game for being too easy and then trying to make him switch to a different one just because you prefer it. Weren't we talking about how that was a bad thing?

He admitted that he had not done the research and, in his words, "made that coment back when I thought I was top shit for being mildly ok at touhou, but now I'm like wow ok this shhit is too hard for me". I hardly call that me convincing him that he's wrong. While I did recommend ESPGaluda, that's because he proceeded to make the erroneous remark that "like, shit man Icouldn't even imagine playing something like Mushihime or whatever this is". I attempted to talk him down from the opinion that "non-touhou shmups are too hard" by giving an example of an easier shmup that nonetheless tested dodging skill in a way that Touhou does not.

Have you?

I played Touhou on Normal and Hard for at least 9 months, got a couple of 1ccs and Extra clears under my belt. I then moved to Cave games and, in retrospect, can say that the higher-speed bullets, barrage of obliquely aimed attacks that require constant dodging, and lower number of extends combine to make them harder games overall (especially when played for survival).
I am not trying to say the the accomplishmetns of Touhou high-scorers like GIL or proficient players like Jaimers, Kefit, Naut, Baity and KrimsunMonkey are not valid. I think they're great players, and they play other shmups proficiently as well. My problem is with the people who sumble through a clear of Normal mode with max life stock, and then feel the need to go brag and comment on YouTube that Touhou is harder than Mushi Ultra or whatever the fuck.
There aren't a lot of these people, but man do they get on my nerves.

tl:dr - The fanbase of Touhou is, for the most part, retarded. People who actually play the games, play other shmups, and in general know what the fuck they're talking about are not.

[moozooh]

So how does any of that make them boring, mediocre games? How does a Touhou game on Lunatic not test your dodging skill if you can't clear it?

[MathU]

I find Touhou shooters generally pretty dull and mediocre myself.

[originalz]

@ Despatche my point is that I doubt Touhou dolls, key chains, rice and all the other shit rancor listed isnt doujin or fandom, its strictly busness with those selling them making a profit. I know doujin has become a kind of grey area due to non comiket sales online and retail, but all this merchendising looks non doujin to my laymans eyes.

It's not like big corporations are making these things, most of the merchandise is made by groups of fans that happen to have the resources to produce them. I've met and talked with a lot of these groups and they're definitely big fans of the series, and I didn't get the impression that they're really only in it for the money. Most of these things you won't find outside of doujin and specialty stores. Maybe there's some commercialism involved in the high-quality 7000yen figures, but overall I think that if ZUN "sold-out" with Touhou and started demanding royalties and contracts with the producers, the series would cease to become what it is and completely ruin the following that it has.

Really, doujin "culture" is built on these things, and even the big corporations know that there's no point in trying to stop people from using their work to produce unlicensed products (that are sold in small and relatively obscure venues). It's a very different mindset from what you'd see in the west, I suppose.

[RNGmaster]

So how does any of that make them boring, mediocre games? How does a Touhou game on Lunatic not test your dodging skill if you can't clear it?

Well, that's one of the big mistakes I made. The other was saying that Success games are harder than Touhou without ever having actually played a Success game myself. I guess that makes me a hypocrite.

[KennyMan666]

Eh, the Touhou fanbase is pretty bad. And I'm saying that as part of it. Stay away from us.

But yeah, while I make it no secret that I read doujinshi, partake in fanon, play doujin games ('course, a lot of them are pretty shitty, and the ones that aren't are usually being good games on account of just being honestly good games) and got really happy when my friend who had been in Japan gave me a Marisa plushie as a gift, the primary reason I'm into it is still the awesome bullet patterns. Strip away everything else, keep only the scoring and the bullet patterns, and I'd still love it. Sure, it would be blander, but it would still be awesome.

So. Yeah. Control config. While I don't find anything wrong with the default keys, I do agree that it should be customizable more.

[lmagus]

Right now I'm using a program called "Key Remapper" because my notebook doesn't like when i'm pressing two arrows + shift + z

that really sucks, so i'm playing in a less than conventional way