Emulation; gets too close for comfort sometimes?

[Drachenherz]

Oh wait, you're the one who compares pcbs to wives. Or, whores

That was supposed to be funny. I guess my ways of coming across to people is sometimes a little cloudy.

I never said that I didn't think it was funny.

[jonny5]

Oh wait, you're the one who compares pcbs to wives. Or, whores

I guess my ways of coming across to people is sometimes a little cloudy.

Maybe to people who have barely been here for a month....the rest of us get ya buddy.

[Drachenherz]

*snip*

I only commented on it because I found it funny to see people I don't know (new members) arguing with other people I don't know on a forum I'm on every day pretty much.

Such things tend to happen on public forums. I'm experiencing exactly the same on a swiss psytrance-forum I hang out for a long time...

Btw... I'm 34... And with my backpack of experience.

And I kinda like this place, you know... At least for the moment. Until the time has come to make place for the young'uns...

And was it already mentioned that this forum is in desperate need of fresh smileys?

[Drachenherz]

Oh wait, you're the one who compares pcbs to wives. Or, whores

I guess my ways of coming across to people is sometimes a little cloudy.

Maybe to people who have barely been here for a month....the rest of us get ya buddy.

Hey, it's two months now for me!!!

[Evilmaxwar]

I played alot of Cave games on emulator. Feeling a little cheap about it i went and bought Mushihimesama Futari for Xbox360, even though i dont have a Xbox 360.

[littlenemo]

@Elixir

I just don't get what is the point of all that quoting/pointing out the fact I share with you opinions.
The lines you quote are precisely full of expressions such as "according to me", they are opinions with wich you can disagree, I never wrote those things as facts and once again you seem to avoid my point (opinion if you prefer) wich is :

What Cave and 5pb are doing on 360 is bad emulation packed inside a hollow shell full of glamourous arrange modes wich are (according to me/my opinion and only/not a universal truth) not going to hide the fact that these games don't stand to their emulated versions.

What I'm saying is leave emulation to professional emulators and start doing games that are properly designed for the hardware they are made for, which is regarding that matter, xbox 360 .

I am sick of all those backgrounds in SD. I am sick of all those buggy leaderboards. I had enough of these so called practice modes that don't let you do what you want with save states, of those replays that don't let you rewind (shmup is like a musical partition, when there is a hard part I want to play it again and again without having to read the whole partition from the start)

I wouldn't accept any of these flaws from any other genre or developpers on a modern console, why would I with Cave?

New levels, redesigned and coherent graphics, tons of practical exercises to practice specific parts of a shmup partition, this is the kind of stuff I am waiting from a console port of an arcade game (Radiant Silvergun for Saturn once again)

If I want to play the real stuff I'll go visiting Nimitz (as far as I am concerned/according to me/ blah blah blah .... my opinion)

[Despatche]

I see your point but would it hurt for you to explain it in a way that actually makes sense

[littlenemo]

I am french, you know we can't possibly find a way that makes sense to explain things )

[bcass]

What Cave and 5pb are doing on 360 is bad emulation packed inside a hollow shell full of glamourous arrange modes

Wrong. Non of the 360 releases are emulations. They're all ports.

You're right on one point though, Cave really need to spend more time testing before releasing. Their bug/patch record is horrendous. Eight ports in the space of 18 months, something tells me they're rushing things a little too much without due care and attention.

[Despatche]

Yes, they are. Since they can simply send out a patch sometime later, they don't have to worry about getting it right. A lot of companies enjoy doing this.

[Taylor]

Phwoar, check out my overwhelming sense of entitlement.

[kernow]

For Christmas

[Ed Oscuro]

Dear Little kernow,

Denied.

-God's Apostle On Earth

[gs68]

I give up. You assholes convinced me. Ketsui 360 is the biggest waste of 78 U.S. dollars I have ever invested in. Maybe I'll attempt to return it once it arrives, and failing that, set it on fire.

[Ed Oscuro]

When emulation gets too close for comfort, you can still sleep soundly knowing that four-bladed razor is waiting for you in the morning.

[TonK]

Emulation is fine.

I use it to try out games, and if I get an itch to play something, it's at my disposal.

I don't play emulators exclusively, but they don't bother me either.

I'm glad people can play Ketsui at will - it's one of my favorite games, and I hope other people get to enjoy it.

I'm not scared of my PCB's losing value - its the game that matters. Sure, I'd like to get back what I paid for them if I sold any. But they are games.

If you're scared of your PCB's losing value, you have them for the wrong reasons.

Hoarding mint arcade kits?

Collectors condition?

[Frederik]

Well, let me try to put a more positive spin on things:

Right now there are quite a lot ways to enjoy CAVE shooters - you have the PCBs, the 360 ports, the iPhone versions, and the emulation side. There´s something for everbody - emulation is a great way to ease into the genre without having to make a major investment.

The iPhone ports are an even easier way to access these games when it comes to "discoverability", and you´re spending only a little amount of money. While MAME still needs you to have some sort of knowledge about how emulation works (getting Espgaluda to run was quite a challenge for me), it´s really just a matter of touching your screen a few times on your iOS device to get to these games (and you´re actually buying these games properly).

On the other end, we have the 360 importers and the PCB buyers/collectors. I really don´t think these people need to justify their purchase - the ports have tons of stuff added to them, while I´m sure the joy of running a PCB in a full arcade cabinet must be unmatched.

As for myself, I´m just not dedicated enough to spend that kind of cash, as I´m broke pretty much constantly. I´m not trying to pretend that I´m running DOJ, Ketsui and Espgaluda, as well as a lot of other shmups in MAME for any other reason than that I can, and that I´m too broke to spend any money on videogames right now. I´m definitely not saying that I have the RIGHT to play these games - I´m just happy I can, and I´m planning to give something back to CAVE once I have enough money again to do so. (I bought Ketsui Death Label in a heartbeat since I was really into having a portable shmup, and it helped that the DS is region free.)

Right now I´m saving up to buy an iPod Touch, as I really, really want to have proper CAVE games on a portable device. I´ve been wanting that for years, and while some people really seem to hate that CAVE does ports that can´t be played via traditional input methods, on top of that on an Apple device, I really think it´s going to make them more visible in the market.

When I have the iPod Touch I will instantly buy Espgaluda II, DDPR and maybe even that Mushihime game I don´t care for just to give something back. Sure, that "I´m giving when I´m deciding it´s worth it" approach sounds a lot like "first pirate, then buy if I like it" position that certainly doesn´t excuse piracy. But emulation exists, and without it I probably would have never gotten into the genre (Batrider, for instance, never got a port, despite really deserving one), and I´m sure a lot of other people here wouldn´t be here either - at least those not being so lucky to have grown up with arcades readily available to them.

What I´m trying to say is that things aren´t as black and white. We have different types of players here - the hardcore dedicated, the newbies, the oldschoolers, the collectors - and all of these have different ideals and priorities. Emulation is not going to kill or seriously harm CAVE imho - they are pumping out new games, ports and collectors items like never before. I think it´s much more important that as many people as possible get to play them, get hooked on the genre, and wind up buying games. (Outright getting ripped ISOs of the 360 ports is a whole different matter, though, but I have no idea if people are actually doing this right now.)

So to sum it up: Emulation is a gray area at best - but if it gets new players hooked on these games and produces new fans of the genre it will help CAVE in the long run.

[Drachenherz]

Frederik, I couldn't agree more. Great post, thank you for your thoughts.

[Frederik]

Thanks

[Matskat]

In scerario A you have people living on pot noodles so they can afford X Cave PCB. In scenario B the PCB is emulated and therefore free and the consumer can therefore go back to eating roast dinners.

One of these days you're going to stop writing complete and utter nonsense.

Unfortunately that will probably be coincident with the end of neorichie's time on this earth.

I don't see how making the (flawed, but perversely enjoyable) argument that putting priorities on good food (so you can live longer) over disposables has much to do with...damn, well, anything really.

Really don't know what to say. If I didn't know better I'd say you were trolling. It's about as valuable as a troll post.

Are you serious?
Nonsense? makes sense to me... It's not complicated, weird, or a non sequitur...

Did I miss something? Not trying to flamebait or anything...
Dude is saying there's guys surviving solely on ramen so they can save $$$ for Cave PCBs and at the same time there's dudes eating fuckin' steaks and playing the aforementioned PCBs - dumped and emulated - because they didn't have to pay $800

It's an anology!
Maybe you're being sarcastic? I dunno...it's late I'm tired..

(Been playing 'galuda via MAME all nite )


I gotta give FREDERIK some props though...it's perspective.

I own the PS2 ports of DOJ and 'Galuda, I own the regionfree Futari and 'Galuda II ports, I bought Goowang on XBLA, and paid $18 to put DDPDFK and 'Galuda II on my office's iPad. As soon as I can afford \ find a 'Galuda PCB I'll buy one becuase I love the game. But I'll be dammned if I don;t play it in MAME until then - because :
1. I fuckin' CAN
2. Lag-free, arcade perfect (non interlaced) 'galuda is heaps better than the port.

"To each their own"
"Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks"

Emulation isn't hurting Cave - the dying arcade scene is. My buddy played DDP in MAME - his first "shmup" and went nuts over it - bought everything Cave did that he could get his mitts on. The moral?
Accessibility.

Our niche hobby isn't making anyone rich - well maybe the owners of Cave \ AMI or whatever, but they'll do OK. If Cave released am HD port of DDP straight up on XBLA, maybe with some extra arrange modes included, everyone on this forum would buy that shit...just because.

I don't claim to have a point here, like I said "I'm tired"

Haters gonna hate...
MAME will emulate
Prices will deflate
The West just has to wait to wait.
Akai Katana ain't that great
The time is getting late
My wife's become irate
(Now I won;t get....laidt?)
I'm done with this debate

[brentsg]

For Christmas

You know, I thought I had the flu for a couple days. Was having chills, night sweats.. bit of a fever.

But I think now this whole thing was just getting too close for comfort. I've been spending a little more time with my kits, mostly just admiring them. They really are special in a way an emulator can never be.

I think maybe it's gonna be ok. Just a little.. too close.

[gs68]

X Mode is probably gonna be dumb anyway.

"Okay this is kind of a fun mode...nope, wears out just as fast as Futari Arrange and Esp2 Arrange. Back to vanillatsui!"

[DragonInstall]

X Mode is probably gonna be dumb anyway.

"Okay this is kind of a fun mode...nope, wears out just as fast as Futari Arrange and Esp2 Arrange. Back to vanillatsui!"

Generally arrange modes in cave games are meh. Esp2 Arrange mode was a joke, but Espgaluda 2 BL is 10times better than the original. You can consider Esp 2 BL like an arrange mode since this was never released on a pcb.

[neorichieb1971]

I have this vision of Trafalgar Square and the pigeons. Where they seem not to take notice until you have FREE food and then suddenly you get attacked by a million birds.

Thats the power of freeness and emulation. It should not be under estimated. This thread has made the forum more popular as it is reaching the top of "search engines" listings just by typing anything related to this subject.

If you want to buy and support Cave products go ahead. If you don't, you can emulate.. But do it discreetly in a kind of taboo fashion.. When the title screen comes up lift one eye brow up, wipe the sweat from your fore head and think.. "Wow, Emulation; gets too close for comfort sometimes?".

Makes you feel better.

[BIL]

2. Lag-free, arcade perfect (non interlaced) 'galuda is heaps better than the port.

You make it sound like the PS2 port has input lag and forced interlacing. It has neither (it does lack the PCB's graphical glitches, though). Just keeping misinformation at bay - I'm only reading the topic for stuff like this:

But do it discreetly in a kind of taboo fashion.. When the title screen comes up lift one eye brow up, wipe the sweat from your fore head and think.. "Wow, Emulation; gets too close for comfort sometimes?".

I love you.

[Dave_K.]

If you're scared of your PCB's losing value, you have them for the wrong reasons.

QFT

2. Lag-free, arcade perfect (non interlaced) 'galuda is heaps better than the port.

You make it sound like the PS2 port has input lag and forced interlacing. It has neither (it does lack the PCB's graphical glitches, though). Just keeping misinformation at bay - I'm only reading the topic for stuff like this:

I think its a given that nobody in this thread owns the actual PS2 game, but are emulating it for FREEEEEEEE with PCSX2 with input lag and upscaled craphics on an LCD monitor. Otherwise you are correct in that the real PS2 port is every bit as good as the PCB except for convenience of playing in a cab.


This thread should have been locked after Frederik's post, as nothing more needs to be said.

[neorichieb1971]

This thread should have been locked after Frederik's post, as nothing more needs to be said.

Yeah I agree. But the more is said the more uncomfortably close its getting..

[brentsg]

Yeah I agree. But the more is said the more uncomfortably close its getting..

I can feel it.. so close.

[captpain]

THE EMULATION IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE

[mesh control]

I have emulations.