Emulation; gets too close for comfort sometimes?

[bcass]

Anyway, whoever made that list of pros for the 360 version forgot the most important one: you get to have a crappy, valuable resource-wasting, plastic box on your shelf to go with the rest of your crappy, valuable resource-wasting, crappy boxes.

So, that's another pro for the PCB owners then, cardboard.

Nah, the 360 port packaging is far more resource-wasting and at least twice as tatty (especially the LE), so gets more bownie points.

[Vyxx]

Anyway, whoever made that list of pros for the 360 version forgot the most important one: you get to have a crappy, valuable resource-wasting, plastic box on your shelf to go with the rest of your crappy, valuable resource-wasting, crappy boxes.

So, that's another pro for the PCB owners then, cardboard.

Nah, the 360 port packaging is far more resource-wasting and at least twice as tatty (especially the LE), so gets more bownie points.

I'd like to give a big thank you to all the 360 Ketsui port owners for wasting our natural resources. You guys are dicks!

[bcass]

[IseeThings]

But think of all the silicone and other valuable resources that are used to build a pcb! Ecologically thinking, MAME-Versions of the games are the best.

Yes, yes, I confess, now I'm just downright silly...

but the MAME developers are assholes for requiring such high end systems to run anything well. MAME eats power stations for breakfast, that's not very eco-friendly at all! They should make Ketsui run on my 486!

[nZero]

I'd like to give a big thank you to all the 360 Ketsui port owners for wasting our natural resources. You guys are dicks!

Better to be a handsome dick than some filthy hippie

but the MAME developers are assholes for requiring such high end systems to run anything well. MAME eats power stations for breakfast, that's not very eco-friendly at all! They should make Ketsui run on my 486!

MAMEDev needs to stop hoarding 60fpsmame and EmuAllSystems, the public has a right to play whatever they want for free (with scanlines!) on computers that would have been considered obsolete 20 years ago! (I can't believe the ZTnet forums still exist in any form )

[Elixir]

- Arrange modes, as good as they can be (I don't care for any of them but that's another debate), are not going to "last" very long imo.
I am quite sure that in 10 years they will be forgotten and that what will be played are the original versions of the games, justifying the quality of a product relying on their existence is for me irrelevant.

Opinion.

Lady Gaga sells millions of albums, that doesn't mean they're good, are we really supporting console versions of the games because of that feature ?

Achievements are a deciding factor for some people, although I agree they're pretty arbitrary.

- Replay system on console as far as Cave is concerned is bad : you don't have a rewind button, that's precisely the point of having replays in shmup.

No, the point of a replay is to watch the replay for tactics/knowledge on the game.

360 was designed to be played on a HD LCD TV, if you upscale SD you HAVE to do it properly. Adding scanlines would be the cheapest way, correctly HDing them is good, redrawing with taste everything would be the best, Cave's ports fail in any of these ways. Apart Futari none of them feature scanlines, and the graphical balance is imo gloomy regarding the HD versions, with ugly SD backgrounds and strange HDfied sprites.

Opinion.

Why is it that on iphone they release perfect retina display (960x640) for 80's games like dragon's lair so easily and it seems so hard for Cave to find a balance at, let 's say at least 1280x800 ?

Because there wouldn't be a proper way to enlarge a vertically displayed game for LCDs. Either you give the user the ability to display them in the original ratio and play around with the settings, or you give the user an abnormal ratio which is totally unlike the original. Which sounds better?

And again what is the "added value" that justifies their use of a hardware such as the 360 ? In terms of graphics, in terms of Gameplay? What s the use of theses practice modes if you can't use save states, if you can't sometimes even choose the point of start in the levels like in Guwange ?
Saturn Radiant Silvergun and Gamecube Ikaruga are fantastic shmup console games, I don't think that Cave ports come close to that (except Futari maybe)

Opinion. Practice modes are fine and weren't previously available. Not every game needs to use the 360 fully in order to be enjoyable.

Since DOJ and Ketsui were emulated I never booted their 360 versions once, I even deleted Guwange to leave some space on my hard drive, and I am quite sure that when DS, DS BL, Galuda 2 and all the rest will be emulated I won't ever play the 360 versions again.

I don't think anybody is going to bother taking your argument seriously because you seem to be under the disillusion that everything available for the 360 will be emulated eventually.

Ketsui and DOJ took 8-9 years to be emulated. If we assume emulating the 360 titles will take the same amount of time,

and,

...considering we're all going to be dead by December 2012...

360 is your only option. Play shmups or die.

[Lance Boyle]

Well there you have it guys, break your bank account and start importing allllllllll the CAVE PCBs and ports you can get your hands on. Race to 1CC DOJ WL before Doomsday!

[DragonInstall]

Even if they do emulate Espgaluda II.. you wont be able to play BL which is 10x more fun than the original Esp II with better music to boot.

[Lance Boyle]

Even if they do emulate Espgaluda II.. you wont be able to play BL which is 10x more fun than the original Esp II with better music to boot.

In a couple decades, XBOX 360 emulation will be like what SNES emulation is today.

[DragonInstall]

Even if they do emulate Espgaluda II.. you wont be able to play BL which is 10x more fun than the original Esp II with better music to boot.

In a couple decades, XBOX 360 emulation will be like what SNES emulation is today.

lol... I always wonder if I will even be playing games by then.

[david peterson]

Even if they do emulate Espgaluda II.. you wont be able to play BL which is 10x more fun than the original Esp II with better music to boot.

they already have sorta...

[kernow]

ok now this is just getting *too close*

for comfort

[DragonInstall]

I would love to play Esp II on my pc and black label on the 360. I remember seeing those Screenshots a long time ago. Wonder why they cant emulate it?

[david peterson]

I would love to play Esp II on my pc and black label on the 360. I remember seeing those Screenshots a long time ago. Wonder why they cant emulate it?

wtf are you special needs? they CAN emulate it but wont release it because that is not the ethics of Mame and cave still release on SH-3.

[IseeThings]

http://www.lucaelia.com/mame.php/2010/Ibara

Important:

* This WIP driver has not been submitted to MAME dev (or anyone else, for that matter).
* It is not for inclusion in MAME for the foreseeable future.
* It won't be for at least 3 years after Cave stops earning from this hardware platform and games.
* Considering Xbox 360 ports are coming out in 2010, you're not going to see this game emulated before 2016 (probably later).
* Add 1 year for each request I get to release it [evil].

Also note:

* The game runs dog slow anyway (peaks at 5% on my Athlon64 3000).
* There is no sound (unemulated YMZ770C-F chip, also sound ROMs are not dumped).
* No EEPROM/Real Time Clock support (unemulated RTC 9701 chip).
* the SH-3 CPU emulation is very preliminary, hacked on top of the SH-4 core.

You won't be seeing these in MAME for a long time, nor would they playable at any decent speed if the driver was released, nor do they have sound. That is Luca's policy, and he wrote the driver. Somebody else could write a driver but they would encounter the same performance issues at least (5% speed on a top end system with MAMEs SH3/4 core)

[david peterson]

I cant help thinking the 5% speed is a little fictitious call me cynical .

[IseeThings]

Run the Naomi driver. Once you get past the boot logo and into the games they run at similar speeds.

This is due to the CPU emulation, not the graphics. The Cave SH3 games use the same CPU emulation as Naomi.

The figure is realistic for MAME.

[david peterson]

So a standalone emulator similar to makaron would be far more effective?

[IseeThings]

Yes, which is why Luca considers even releasing the driver a risk, because it could be used for the basis of something faster even if having them in MAME would pose no risk to Cave directly.

If others want to take that risk it's their choice. If somebody else was to write a driver Aaron might even consider it, but Luca has his own policy which has been clearly expressed on his page.

[DragonInstall]

I would love to play Esp II on my pc and black label on the 360. I remember seeing those Screenshots a long time ago. Wonder why they cant emulate it?

wtf are you special needs? they CAN emulate it but wont release it because that is not the ethics of Mame and cave still release on SH-3.

No need to throw insults. I didn't realize thats how Mame works. Just chill out.

[david peterson]

Im chilled bro no offense intended , please try to read threads more thoroughly though.

[kernow]

Guys, try not to get too close for comfort ok.

[jonny5]

http://www.lucaelia.com/mame.php/2010/Ibara

Important:

* This WIP driver has not been submitted to MAME dev (or anyone else, for that matter).
* It is not for inclusion in MAME for the foreseeable future.
* It won't be for at least 3 years after Cave stops earning from this hardware platform and games.
* Considering Xbox 360 ports are coming out in 2010, you're not going to see this game emulated before 2016 (probably later).
* Add 1 year for each request I get to release it [evil].

Also note:

* The game runs dog slow anyway (peaks at 5% on my Athlon64 3000).
* There is no sound (unemulated YMZ770C-F chip, also sound ROMs are not dumped).
* No EEPROM/Real Time Clock support (unemulated RTC 9701 chip).
* the SH-3 CPU emulation is very preliminary, hacked on top of the SH-4 core.

You won't be seeing these in MAME for a long time, nor would they playable at any decent speed if the driver was released, nor do they have sound. That is Luca's policy, and he wrote the driver. Somebody else could write a driver but they would encounter the same performance issues at least (5% speed on a top end system with MAMEs SH3/4 core)

Read the notes...."athlon64 3000" is hardly a 'top end system'. 2ghz single core....years out of date. That's hardly beefier than a modern netbook.

Also, who the heck are all these new people who have joined in the last couple months. I don't know who anybody is anymore.

They certainly like to argue a lot about a genre they seemingly just discovered. Play nice kiddies.

[david peterson]

Guys, try not to get too close for comfort ok.

Loled hard

They certainly like to argue a lot about a genre they seemingly just discovered. Play nice kiddies.

Yes because discovering the genre and this forum always occur in the same instance lol.

[jonny5]

Guys, try not to get too close for comfort ok.

Loled hard

They certainly like to argue a lot about a genre they seemingly just discovered. Play nice kiddies.

Yes because discovering the genre and this forum always occur in the same instance lol.

I wasn't necessarily referring to you david. There just seems to be a huge influx of new members, many of whom seem to be in there teens, and based on some posts, rather uninformed.

I only commented on it because I found it funny to see people I don't know (new members) arguing with other people I don't know on a forum I'm on every day pretty much.

[IseeThings]

Read the notes...."athlon64 3000" is hardly a 'top end system'. 2ghz single core....years out of date. That's hardly beefier than a modern netbook.

Also, who the heck are all these new people who have joined in the last couple months. I don't know who anybody is anymore.

They certainly like to argue a lot about a genre they seemingly just discovered. Play nice kiddies.

So you might get 10-15% speed on a more modern system (remember emulation of a single CPU can't be split across multiple cores so only raw mhz and architectural improvements in the processors actually makes a difference)

It doesn't change the fact that they're years off playable performance in MAME even if the driver was to be included.

[neorichieb1971]

This thread is getting close to being emulated next week by another thread. It will include at least 3 lots of people we all don't know.

[Drachenherz]

This thread is getting close to being emulated next week by another thread. It will include at least 3 lots of people we all don't know.

Pure win.

Btw... I'm Drachenherz, I don't think we've already been introduced? Oh wait, you're the one who compares pcbs to wives. Or, whores.

[jonny5]

This thread is getting close to being emulated next week by another thread. It will include at least 3 lots of people we all don't know.

Thank you Richie! I think with that golden nugget we can consider this thread done!

Seriously though, that was brilliant!

[neorichieb1971]

Oh wait, you're the one who compares pcbs to wives. Or, whores

That was supposed to be funny. I guess my ways of coming across to people is sometimes a little cloudy.