Emulation; gets too close for comfort sometimes?

[IseeThings]

So when will we get the espgaluda dump? GEIF

There are pictures of it on Hazes site. Its dumped, but with some problems.

[THE]

After all, emulation is rather trivial, unless you really emulate it down to circuit levels

This offends me in ways I cannot even begin to describe.

Rule #1 never take anything on internet personally
Rule #2 don't make your self esteem depending from others

The programming aspects of emulation are *rather* trivial, not completely. The only part that needs really skills and dedication is the reverse engineering of the hardware and protection. As soon as this is done, no high end skills are necessary anymore.

[neorichieb1971]

You reeeeally ought to consider taking all of this a lot less seriously. They're just words on a computer screen, produced by people who are often thousands of miles away. We're talking about 8-year-old video games that nobody has ever heard of but us.

I'm only here for the argument for and against. The outcome does not concern me in the slightest. I do feel for those people who think things should be different than what they are, but there are many things in life you can't change.

In regards to my weirdo quote, I was referencing the posts above it which were not relative the topic at hand. Bcass vs THE.

I will use quotations next time so that there is no confusion.

[THE]

You must have serious confidence issues if you consider my comment to be anywhere near as derisory as the crap THE wrote in that other thread.

I guess you didn't even understand anything I have written in that posting...at least the PCB collector posting doesn't fit at all...

*Edited typo

[emphatic]

you didn't even understood

[bcass]

You must have serious confidence issues if you consider my comment to be anywhere near as derisory as the crap THE wrote in that other thread.

I guess you didn't even understood anything I have written in that posting...at least the PCB collector posting doesn't fit at all...

You collect PCBs. You were deriding (and continue to deride) people who don't. There's nothing more to understand, nor worthy of further acknowledment.

[kernow]

brb playing my ketsui pcb.

[brentsg]

brb playing my ketsui pcb.

Do you OWN THAT?

[THE]

You collect PCBs.

True, I guess that makes me the devil for certain people

You were deriding (and continue to deride) people who don't.

You don't need to collect PCBs to play them. You can just buy them one after another and sell the old ones.
With an one time investment of say 500 EUR you could have played most Cave games in their supposed and original form by now...so pretty much everyone can enjoy PCBs. You don't need to be rich!

[bcass]

*EPIC YAWN*

[captpain]

In regards to my weirdo quote,

[Udderdude]

Hey THE, I'm sure you're enjoying making sure nobody here will ever even look at buying your games again, but you might want to try pulling your head out of your ass just a teensy bit?

[kernow]

brb playing my ketsui pcb.

Do you OWN THAT?

Yes but I must admit, this thread is just too close for comfort. I mean sometimes I just think, omg mame .. too close for comfort man, then I make a 500 word post no-one reads and somehow it turns into an 18 page thread.

[power UP]

lotsa stuff

tl;dr: You don't have the dosh!

[THE]

Hey THE, I'm sure you're enjoying making sure nobody here will ever even look at buying your games again, but you might want to try pulling your head out of your ass just a teensy bit?

Yes I guess I have a tendency to do stupid stuff like that...

[TrevHead (TVR)]

THX for posting that Richard Stallman and DRM lecture. It was very intresting especially when he talked about the shit sony was trying to pull off (and getting away with it to a certan extent). And ppl here take the piss out of me for adding $ to m$

[Zeron]

If you invest alot of times in the new PGM games you could atleast have the decency to pick up the 360 ports atleast.

just my opinion

[Lance Boyle]

If you invest alot of times in the new PGM games you could atleast have the decency to pick up the 360 ports atleast.

just my opinion

The decency to spend hundreds of dollars importing a console they didn't care for us to have so I can play a game they didn't care for us to buy. Woohoo Japan.

Also, does Cave actually get any money from me importing a second-hand copy of their game after the price sinks down to a reasonable amount?

[Zeron]

Also, does Cave actually get any money from me importing a second-hand copy of their game after the price sinks down to a reasonable amount?

So its alright to buy some 3 hour single player game for 60 USD that has no replay value whatsoever or these games where you invest massive time in for 70 USD and might be playing them consistently for many years?

[cstle]

If you invest alot of times in the new PGM games you could atleast have the decency to pick up the 360 ports atleast.

just my opinion

Why? I myself have a copy of Ketsui 360 that I can't play, and it feels nice to have... but let's be honest. Cave doesn't make any money from us buying these ports (which they didn't develop or publish) out of the goodness of our hearts or whatever. Emulating the games (well, downloading the roms) is still illegal even if you have the ports so unless you want the ports to have the games in a physical format on a console or to play the arranges... there's really no reason to buy them.

DOJBLEX is a turd of a release that should offend any Cave fan and is out of print anyways so you'll only find it second hand. The only reason anyone should've had to buy that was to play BL but it's emulated now. Ketsui is a good port, but it's also from the same people who brought us DOJBLEX. It bombed and is marked down pretty much everywhere though so I guess people should grab one before they run out like I did, but I won't look down on people for not doing it.

Cave got their money from both of those ports before they even came out anyways.

[Lance Boyle]

So its alright to buy some 3 hour single player game for 60 USD that has no replay value whatsoever

Where the hell did that come from? I never said anything like that, and I can't see why somebody would do something like that.

[NzzpNzzp]

The decency to spend hundreds of dollars importing a console they didn't care for us to have so I can play a game they didn't care for us to buy. Woohoo Japan.

Well, they never cared for you to play, either, but you still managed to find a way to do that, right?

[Lance Boyle]

The decency to spend hundreds of dollars importing a console they didn't care for us to have so I can play a game they didn't care for us to buy. Woohoo Japan.

Well, they never cared for you to play, either, but you still managed to find a way to do that, right?

Yes, and?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Now that Ketsui is emulated, I feel like I'd be wasting 80-90 USD for buying the 360 port.

Cave and 5pb aren't gonna care if I go the legal route and import.

It's easy to say "I'm just one guy, no one will be affected if I don't buy the port and simply emulate it" but the fact of the matter is that there will be hundreds to thousands of people thinking the same way you do, and voila.

I would think that this would be a stepping stone. Allow new comers to try out these masterpieces, as well as anyone who hasn't played them yet. If you actually like DoJ or Ketsui, buy the damn games.

To many ppl importing ketsui DOJBLEX or any other emulated game is a bridge too far but thats not to say If these games were someday released in our own territory either on disc or DL ppl who enjoyed the emulations will snap it up. That is aslong as Cave give players one or two simple extras like a new mode, character or online leaderboards or online muliplayer. Its not rocket science, we are quite easy to please, just give us something that is atleast as good as what we can get for free (thinks of Guwange and its fail resolution options, Anyone know how well that game sold?)

[bcass]

(thinks of Guwange and its fail resolution options, Anyone know how well that game sold?)

Not very well if its disappearance from the sales chart after just one week is any indication.

[idc]

(thinks of Guwange and its fail resolution options, Anyone know how well that game sold?)

Not very well if its disappearance from the sales chart after just one week is any indication.

Let's face it though, it was always going to be a niche title with relatively small target audience, right? Almost everyone who is ever likely to buy it probably bought it within the first week it was released. The fact that it was even in the sales chart for a week should be considered a good result.

[Aliquantic]

(thinks of Guwange and its fail resolution options, Anyone know how well that game sold?)

Not very well if its disappearance from the sales chart after just one week is any indication.

MyGamerCard has 2,772 players for it, as opposed to 70k for things like Rez HD or Ikaruga and 23K for Triggerheart Exelica, putting it below even most retail Cave STGs (aside from Ketsui). so it seems pretty poor so far yes :s

(I'm not sure if MyGamerCard includes all users worldwide but it's pretty close either way, and they aren't restricted to users who actually signed up... but for comparison, they have 96,811 people for Duels of the Planeswalker, which sold in the vicinity of twice that much)

[bcass]

(thinks of Guwange and its fail resolution options, Anyone know how well that game sold?)

Not very well if its disappearance from the sales chart after just one week is any indication.

Let's face it though, it was always going to be a niche title with relatively small target audience, right? Almost everyone who is ever likely to buy it probably bought it within the first week it was released. The fact that it was even in the sales chart for a week should be considered a good result.

Not really. Being in the sales chart indicates very little without numbers. No.1 could be selling 1 million and no.2 could be selling 3000 for all we know.

But yes, as I've said all along, it was the wrong game to premier on the service. The sci-fi themed titles would have been better bets IMO. The killer difficulty wouldn't have enamoured too many newcomers I'd imagine.

[littlenemo]

hi there and sorry to speak about those things if they have been mentioned already, but since ketsui and DOJ were playable on MAME, I had a lots of thoughts that might interest you regarding the subject of this topic.

First of all I have to say that as long as I will have the ability to buy a product that I really like and want to support, I will pay for it, and, being myself french, I travelled the long path leading to modern Cave gaming aka buying a jap xbox/ importing the games/ keeping on spending fortune despite Cave's bizarre foreign economic policy etc...

That implies I am actually supposed to like those products and the fact is that I am more and more wondering about Cave's console ports accuracy, now I don't wanna to create some kind of trolly debate over the question but let's face some objective facts :

- Graphical's lack of cohesion : if you have a CRT this is pointless but as the xbox 360 was designed to be ultimately played on a LCD, why is it that I can't find any cave's game graphical setting to be satisfying and accurate on a LCD ?
"HD" versions of the games ? Lowscale backgrounds upscaled with a baseball bat and HDfied sprites in a very weird taste ?
Simple ports of games like Guwange, DOJ or Ketsui ? Not even a scanline to ease the upscaling slaughter, and why not taking advantage of the real graphical possibilities of the platform ? Think of what could have been Guwange made in a Oboro Muramasa way ?
- No Save States
- Bugs, inaccuracy of emulation
- Adding arrange modes that wil be forgotten soon instead of focusing on what could be valuable for the core of the game as a console experience (I think about the Ikaruga's practice mode on Gamecube for instance or the fantastic Radiant Silvergun's Saturn version)

On the terrible and cruel market of "piracy" I have on the other side a product that is free and that allows me to :
- display the graphics at the resolution I want, add a sweet variety of scanlines to it
- save states
- emulation's accuracy
- customable interface in millions of ways
- forum trolling
- and so on

The core of the problem for me is there : I don't think that piracy is and will be a problem for Cave, personally I am quite convinced they don't give a shit about 360 and that they will focus on Iphone for the cash flow in a not so long distant future to finance their real passion aka making arcade cabinets for the Japanese market
But from now on, if Cave doesn't strongly change its perspective over making ports for the 360, and especially regarding DOJ, I will definitely support MAME's team's efforts instead of continuing to buy expensive crappy LE versions of games that are ported better, with much more love and much more passion on free emulators, and I will be more than inclined to give money to those who try today to emulate muchi muchi pork, Ibara and so on.

Not because I am full of hate or unwilling to spend my money but just because today Cave's emulation on MAME is a far better product than the actual 360 Cave's releases according to me

Sorry for the wall and bad english guys and hope it'll add utility to the debate )

[Elixir]

In brief.

1. Cave didn't make DOJBLEX.
2. Ketsui's 360 version is better.
3. Outside of these 2 titles, none of the other games for 360 can be emulated.
4. Even if they are emulated, none of the Arrange modes will be.

I don't think that piracy is and will be a problem for Cave, personally I am quite convinced they don't give a shit about 360

Is that why they keep making them?