SONY PVM 2530 V-hold/Sync issues via RGB

[kamiboy]

I came into the possession of a lightly used early 90's PVM 2530 yesterday. Disregarding some geometry issues it works flawlessly via S-video on the systems that I tested on it, these being a NTSC/U SNES and a NTSC/U Saturn.

But the unit has proven to be almost useless when using its RGB input, via the 25 pin d-sub labeled CPTR on the back. My setup is a XSELECT-D4 that I use as a hub and YUV to RGB converter whose RGB output is fed into a BNC to D-sub 25 converter cable.

I first tested my CDX and discovered that the picture it was giving was very sharp and stable if the V-hold knob is turned such that the screen scrolls constantly. When brought into the sweet spot the screen would stop scrolling but would bob violently, sort of like the picture was being zoomed slightly up and down rapidly.

Sometime with the CDX I can find a very hard to locate tiny sweet spot that will reduce this constant bobbing down to a random occurrence once or twice a minute, sometimes more, sometimes less. After discovering this I thought I was in the clear and started playing but after about 40 minutes of playtime the bobbing returned suddenly and would not stop.

I tested a few other systems and here are the results:

SATURN - same as CDX

NTSC/U PS3 @ YUV - constant scrolling, cannot find a sweet spot to stop the screen from scrolling

PAL PS2 @ YUV - same as above but screen is very washed out.

PAL PS2 @ RGB - When playing back PS2 games I can find a sweet spot, but the screen is not stable, it shakes violently up and down instead of bobbing. However when playing back PS1 games, Symphony of the Night specifically, I get a clear stable picture which was maintained for about 20 minutes. Perhaps it will be stable indefinitely or perhaps like the CDX it will start misbehaving after a while, I need further testing to find out.

To test to see wither the XSELECT-D4 was the culprit I tried to use some thin DIY wires to connect the CDX's RGB and composite sync pins from the SCART directly to the BNC ports of the cable I had coming out of the PVM. I was not at all successful in getting a usable picture by doing this even though I spent a hour trying to make sure all the wires were connected properly. I always got a picture with inverted, garbled colours and a lot of distortion. But there was not bobbing, what was being displayed stayed put. Of course that means little when parts of the the picture were distorted as hell and the colours were all wrong.

Forum member Arasoi has a PVM 2530 s well, and uses it via XSELECT-D4 without any problems, so I guess the fault is with my set. But the fact that my PAL PS2 playing a PS1 game via RGB SCART works without a hitch makes me think that perhaps the PVM's RGB input might be salvageable somehow.

I would like to do some further testing trying to connect RGB directly but I do not have the proper tools to ensure a good connection, as such my previous attempts were a failure. As I said this set is 20 years old but has seen only light use, but has been left plugged into the wall all of that time.

I believe leaving such equipment plugged in for so long will strain them even though they are left off. So could the problem be some damaged caps or this specific unit just not dancing with the signal the XSELECT is putting out? Anything I can to to fix up the sync problem? Perhaps by way of a cheap device between the XSELECT and PVM?

[neorichieb1971]

If its like the 2950 there is a PCB in the right side (of the inside) with small holes in it. Using a plastic screwdriver you can adjust all the different forms of sync and geometry there.

But only if its like the 2950.

When I say the right side, I mean turn the CRT to its actual side and the PCB should be staring you in the face. The holes are pretty small. Nothing bigger than the smallest screw drivers are applicable. You have to take the casing off to get to it. Be careful though, its quite near dangerous places.

Its the side nearest in this pic



Check both sides to be conclusive.

[kamiboy]

I see, so you think that the sync problems can be solved by adjusting dials on the inside. I assume they are labelled on the 2950? Or am I going to adjust them at random? Well I am willing to give it a shot, but since the worst case scenario is I die from electrocution I want to make better sure that is my only bet first.

[neorichieb1971]

On the 2950 the holes were labelled with 2 letters. Like VS would be vertical sync. It wasn't exactly easy to find these holes when I first looked. They are only 2 or 3mm in diameter.

No harm in taking the case off to see if you can see where I am talking about. I don't see any easier way. The next step is to recap the CRT.

edit - I will add that it could be your signal. Have you tried successfully on the other monitor to get a picture with the same cables?

I will also add that I have a Hantarex RGB monitor that doesn't sync at all. Tried everything. It works with svideo just fine.

[kamiboy]

Outside of the BNC to 25 pin D-Sub cable the exact same setup works perfectly with my Nec XM29 monitor, no sync problems at all with that one, it is rock solid. Too bad the 2530 puts it to shame in terms of PQ, otherwise I'd just count my losses.

That and the fact that XSELECT works for Arasoi on a PVM makes me conclude that something is slightly off with my PVM monitor. But I'd like some more educated opinions. If caps need replacing, well, I am not much for doing that to be honest. But I can take off the lid and have look inside if need be, but I keep hearing its dangerous stuff, even if a CRT is not plugged in.

[neorichieb1971]

Well I am an amateur to be honest. The main charges are around the neck of the CRT and you won't be touching anything near there. Most circuit boards have little voltage going through them. The only thing I was scared of was putting something in the hole and not knowing where its going. As its a small hole you have to fiddle to find the groove, once aligned, turn.

[kamiboy]

Okay, I have the buttocks of the PVM off now, it was dead easy just took loosening about 10 screws and off it came. There are two PCBs, one on the right side and one on the left, just as you said.

Here are the list of labeled holes of various sizes on the right side:

R BLACK ADJ
G BLACK ADJ
B BLACK ADJ
RDC ADJ
GDC ADJ
BDC ADJ
ACC ADJ
HUE ADJ
AMP ADJ

On the left side I find:

H.CENT
H.FREQ
V.SIZE
V.CENT
DIST
T.PIN
B.PN
PIN.PHASE
PIN
H.V
and one that has no label

I don't know, none of these seem to read like the one I need be adjusting. Is it possible that the one controlling the vertical-whatever-it-is-I-need-to-adjust is actually the V-HOLD knob conveniently placed on the back for easy control?

Does the 2950 have a V-HOLD knob on the back? If not perhaps the 2530 has it there instead of on the inside board and I am shit out of luck.

[viletim]

kamiboy,

From your description, it sonds like your monitor is not receiving a sync signal. Can you describe how your converter cable is wired?

I recommend against playing with the internal adjustments. Electronic equipment doesn't un-adjust itself to the point of failure! Those adjustments are for performing a calibration only. If the unit doesn't work properly, you are doing something wrong or there is a fault, it's as simple as that.

[kamiboy]

Too late man, I already fiddled with all of the dials on the left board with the exception of T.PIN and B.PN. None of them had any effect at all on the problem at hand, but I did manage to make the pin cushion problem of the monitor go away.

I also discovered that opposite what I wrote earlier my NTSC/U Saturn acts more like the PS2 via component as in I cannot get the image to stop scrolling no matter how much I fiddle with v-hold, I can only slow or speed up the scrolling speed.

As to how the converter wire is wired, I am almost 100% certain that the wire is not the problem here. Why? Well, I did not build the converter cable, it is one made by EXTRON, and I have seen it attached to other PVM 2530's being sold online, so I assume this cable is meant to work with this particular monitor. It is a very simple little thing, with four BNC jacks labelled R, G, B and SYNC on one side and a 25 pin BNC port on the other.

There is a picture of it here.

Anyway, I think you are right, there is something wrong with this monitor that goes beyond my ability to remedy. It is an excellent S-video monitor, but for RGB I am forced to use the inferior XM29.

[Arasoi]

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[neorichieb1971]

H.V is probably the right one to turn. Well its nearest what I think it would be anyway.

Viletim speaks sense though, its obvious the vertical hold is holding with svideo so its either with the cable or the internal workings of the RGB input connector on the monitor. Like I said though I get this on my Hantarex RGB monitor and so far I have never been able to use it with RGB. I've even had people round that wire superguns and stuff and they tried quite a few things and it still didn't work. My setup is even more straight forward since it has a scart input on it. So the one purpose I bought my monitor, its useless. I do use it for Svideo though.

I did warn you about all these things before you started out on this path. I've been down this road too many times and spent probably close to $1000 on monitors/shipping/parts/cables that gave me unsatisfactory results. I do like my cabinets though they have never given me any problems and the monitors have worked spectacularly. Now Viletims SCART adapter is almost ready with controller modules yet to come, perhaps its an option you might explore. Rest assured, whatever the results you are looking for, you'll get them with that setup.

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

One thing to note about the PVM 2530 is that it does not support separate VSYNC signals from analog RGB sources, the vsync pin is only for digital TTL (RGBI) signals ala CGA.

The Xselect outputs 15khz, but in a VGA format with separate H/V syncs from the VGA out port. The H/V syncs have to be combined to composite sync for the PVM to play nice. I had a old sync cleaner board laying around I tossed into a project box that did the trick for me, but as viletim will likely tell you it only takes a diode and a resistor to do this.

If you are still having trouble plugging your SCART related things directly in not with the X Select then this probably wont help, but just something I forgot to cover in our PMs.

Interesting, I thought the XSELECT was sending out combined sync even via its VGA output port. The VGA to BNC cable I have does end in 5 wires, three colour and two sync. I assume that if I were to buy a 4 wired version that would not help, correct? Because it would not combine both syncs into that one sync wire, it would just put out the untouched signal from the H-sync pin only, or am I wrong?

If a VGA to BNC/RCA wire existed that combined H/V sync into one wire at one end then that would simplify things by a lot. I think I've heard about some EXTRON RGB devices with the ability to take in and convert between all sorts of RGB combinations, even sync on green which the PVM supports.

Anyway first order of business would be to to try and get a successful direct connection going for test purposes. I'll need some tools that I do not have though.

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

Thanks Arasoi, I believe you cracked this one. I took two thin wires and at one end twisted their ends together and put it into the female SYNC BNC input of the cable coming out of the PVM, which was easy enough. Now for the difficult part, the other two ends had to be brought into contact with the two male BNC output pins of the cable connected to the XSELECT. I spent about 15 minutes trying to make this work with little to no luck, only thing it did was make the screen turn into a garbled mess. But then suddenly the ends met just right and magic happened, a clean stable image from my CDX, PAL PS2, NSTC/U PS3 and NTSC/U Saturn. Only problem is that the image is suddenly skewed to the left at the very top of the screen, but perhaps that wills solve itself with some proper cables, or maybe my messing around with the internal dials is responsible for this.

Mind you this is very unstable configuration, if a mouse farts somewhere in the house I have a mind to believe things will fall out.

I am surprised to hear that a Y cable did not work for you, I mean, why wouldn't it? that is exactly what I am doing right now to get things to work, just joining two cables into one. This would be the easiest way for me to fix things, by getting a BNC splitter cable and be done with it. Right? But why on earth did it not work in your case? Strange.

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

This would solve all my problems I think. Too bad no place around here carries anything as esoteric as that.

EDIT:

I'll take that back, it seems these are used for cable so I might be able to find one, I'll try and hunt one down today. Would be so great if today was the end of my RGB quest, to think it has come down to a tiny lump of nickel settling all my remaining issues.

[kamiboy]

30 ducats, two BNC to RCA adapters and one RCA Y-splitter later and success at last!

Now time to get some quality time in with Snatcher, without sync interruptions.

Arasoi thanks a thousand for your accurate, insightful and helpful comments, you sure are a jolly good fellow.

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

[donboyage]

Hi I found this thread through googling how to connect my PS2 to the pvm 2530 I just bought. This is quite an old thread so all of the pictures here are 404 links. What ended up being the problem/solution to being able to use the RBG on the 2530? Was it just an individual unit problem or is it difficult to use because of the design? What is the best way for me to utilize the RGB input on my 2530?

[Hoagtech]

Hi I found this thread through googling how to connect my PS2 to the pvm 2530 I just bought. This is quite an old thread so all of the pictures here are 404 links. What ended up being the problem/solution to being able to use the RBG on the 2530? Was it just an individual unit problem or is it difficult to use because of the design? What is the best way for me to utilize the RGB input on my 2530?

Find a pin out of your dsub 25 input for your display. Then buy a screw terminal dsub 25 connector: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DSUB-25PIN-MALE ... xy9ERSQmuQ

If your tv accepts 15khz rgbs on that input you can wire it up to a scart lead. If it is 31khz or above input it is most likely rgbhv only in which case you would need a line doubler that converts combined sync into h and v sync.

My tvs RGB inputs only accept rgbhv 31khz and above so I am going to test the ossc with a digital to analog rgbhv converter chained.


I'm in the same boat and can't wait to use these ports.

My monitors are:

Mitsubishi XC3725C 37" Megaview