Emulation; gets too close for comfort sometimes?

[DragonInstall]

Its fine as long as Cave puts extra goodies into their ports. Such as Espgaluda II BL and all those extra modes in all their games. Lets not forget the HD sprites which look way more sexy than the pcb versions plus online replays and scoreboards. Plus if you plan to post your scores, showing your leader board /replay looks much more legit/impressive than emulating.

Achievements are fun as hell to tackle too

[neorichieb1971]

To each their own.....these arguments are silly.

Who cares what anybody else is doing; keep it real for yourself and that's all that matters!

Everybody is acting as if these were the first emulated cave games or something.....I'm willing to bet this release does absolutely nothing to cave's bottom line(in terms of losses) and even less affect on the PCB prices.

But again your not taking into consideration that certain individuals buy a product for the divine right to own it and play it.

If you buy a game, 3 months later someone emulates it gets it for free. Then repeat that cycle 3 or 4 times and you end up regretting all your purchases.

The reason anti piracy is there and the reason anti emulation is there, is simply to reward the fans. In this day and age the only thing the fans get is a smack in the face. As any sequel they helped support by buying the original is also copied/pirated/emulated. Thats why I say having these types of posts is obsolete. Making a thread doesn't change anything, it only unearths truths you don't want to hear.

Dcharlie, your sentiments are very often on the positive but unrealistic side. Remember that charitable thing a few studios did a few months ago with 5 or 6 games. Some people still torrented those games and others paid $00.01 for all of them. Given the choice the majority of people will opt to get the most for as little as possible.

If there is a future where the original copyright owner can tag any online file they created and get rewarded for its download. Thats the only way I know where this can be governed. It needs to be governed.

[Keade]

The reason anti piracy is there and the reason anti emulation is there, is simply to reward the fans.

This is so terribly naive and self-centered. I can only say AHAHAHAHAHAAA
Seriously.

[neorichieb1971]

If the fans are not protected by their purchase, they convert to pirates. The company at the top loses.

If you think a free for all system via donations would be more profitable for Sony, Cave, Microsoft you are living in a dream world. The corperations need the fans and the fans need the corperations. Nobody needs freeloaders.

[Ex-Cyber]

If you buy a game, 3 months later someone emulates it gets it for free. Then repeat that cycle 3 or 4 times and you end up regretting all your purchases.

No, I don't. Seriously.

[jepjepjep]

keep it real for yourself and that's all that matters!

I've bought a J360, DOJ:BLEX and Ketsui Extra. And I'm ecstatic that these games are emulated so well in mame!

[JGcontraman]

Personally I haven't figured out how to emulate ketsui successfully. I've used all the DS emulators

Emulation is always great for playing discontinued games from discontinued systems. Also the fact that with 8-64 bit systems, most games download very fast and some run quite well or even at perfection.

[pixelcorps]

you do know that ketsui didn`t sell well at all, right?、go check a japanese game seller like sofmap. They don`t even have new copies anymore.. It was pretty heavily discounted a number of days after release.. it came out 8 months ago, and the retails sales have run their course. The only people profiting from the game now are used game sellers.

DOJBL due to its bugs is now so heavily discounted, its not like people will buy it in droves once its patched. and again, didn`t sell too well.

I don`t think the release of either of these roms is damaging... the sales have run their course, its not available in the west...so..

[gameoverDude]

Sure, there are ports of Ketsui & DOJBL on 360- and Espgaluda on PS2. And I bought them. But if you don't have a J360 (or JPS2 for Espgaluda), you won't be able to play them. A US publisher would be more likely looking at Daifukkatsu before these older titles.

Even if this Cave PGM emulation had seen release PRIOR to Ketsui Extra & DOJ BLEX coming to 360, I would still have bought the ports. I'll just quote bcass' statement for truth- the Extra mode in Ketsui Extra is good.

If you hadn't noticed, there are *very* good reasons to buy the ports, even if the games have been emulated - leaderboards, achievements, easily sharable replays, extra modes (some of them very good in their own right) etc.

As for the CV-1000 titles, emulation of those would be impractical at least in MAME due to CPU speed. That's not saying someone else out there wouldn't try to make their own standalone emulator which would have the speed issue licked. Ibara or original Mushihime emulation wouldn't upset me, but I'd draw the line at Death Smiles (2007). Anyway, Luca Elia is wise to hold his CV-1000 MAME driver back. I can easily see Cave releasing at least four to six more games on CV-1000 before it gets retired.

[jonny5]

To each their own.....these arguments are silly.

Who cares what anybody else is doing; keep it real for yourself and that's all that matters!

Everybody is acting as if these were the first emulated cave games or something.....I'm willing to bet this release does absolutely nothing to cave's bottom line(in terms of losses) and even less affect on the PCB prices.

But again your not taking into consideration that certain individuals buy a product for the divine right to own it and play it.

If you buy a game, 3 months later someone emulates it gets it for free. Then repeat that cycle 3 or 4 times and you end up regretting all your purchases.

Did you read my post? I'm taking into account that anybody can do whatever they want, and it makes zero difference to my enjoyment of a game if I paid a $1000 for the PCB and somebody else emulates it for free. I'm still happy playing my game and so are they.

You said it yourself; you like PCB's for the distinction of having and being able to play things most can't. So it's understandable it might bug you if something like this gets emulated. But for people who are just out to enjoy games, whether obscenely expensive or free, its fun either way.

Don't let what other people do affect your enjoyment of things.

[bcass]

I don't like emulation and don't use it except if I want to play moon cresta or something as old as that.

<devils advocate> given that we have things like Gamesroom etc where companies want you to purchase the rom to play, is this a defense anymore? The limit to when a game is no longer viable commercially seems on thin ice </devils advocate>

The big flaw with this is that the vast majority of retro-compilations (incl. GamesRoom) don't have anywhere near the amount of attention lavished on them that the best PC emulators do. The emulation quality is almost always of questionable quality where big companies and the commercial side is concerned. That's not something I'll ever support.

One very important aspect of the emulation/retro scene (free and commercial) is that if it hadn't been for the effort/ingenuity of everyone in the emulation scene, the commercial side would likely not exist in anything resembling the form it does now. It's the people in the retro scene that made the initial effort, did all the hard work, and opened companies eyes to the demand for emulated games. Of course, as usual, most companies have been too slow off the mark, haven't put enough effort into it, and in many instances tried to be too greedy, which is why it's still fairly niche, commercially.

Here's an interesting one though - would anyone emulating something like Ketsui consider buying the game new on import even if they can't play it (i know there are a number of ins and outs here where this doesn't quite add up but... hey) ? What if Cave set up a donation pot on their website as an alternative ? "Okay, we aren't going to go after you or ask for the game to be removed from MAME - but if you did play Ketsui emulated and you did enjoy it then please feel free to pay what you think that game experience is worth. Suggested tip of $5. Donations over $40 get this exclusive "Ketsui Support Team" B2 poster!"

That's actually not a bad idea. Smaller indies already do this sort of thing anyway. Of course, in reality, people can already do this anyway. If you feel a bit guilty for playing one of their games in MAME, there's nothing to stop you buying an extra copy of Futari or Galuda II for the 360 and giving it to a friend. Problem solved. For the rest of us who regularly plough hundreds into the companies coffers year on year, I don't think we have much to feel guilty about.

[Elixir]

If you buy a game, 3 months later someone emulates it gets it for free. Then repeat that cycle 3 or 4 times and you end up regretting all your purchases.

How about when you buy a Cave game for 360 and a month later it's half price? Honestly, I felt much worse when I saw the Ketsui LE for under 3000 Yen, when I had already paid 10,000 Yen at the time of release.

[szycag]

I'd go as far as to say that Cave should be thankful for emulation. I know their international affairs would certainly be different without it. I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for emulating DDP three or four years ago, and I wouldn't have bought Death Smiles, Futari, Guwange, or an iPod Touch. Maybe I've lost my capacity to be scrupulous here but topics like this just seem like overthinking things to me. These games are eight years old! Napster did the same thing for me... I downloaded a lot, but the things that I ended up buying, I never would have bought only having MTV's TRL and Clear Channel controlled radio to go by. I really despise the freeloader rhetoric. It's very black and white.

[emphatic]

What if Cave set up a donation pot on their website as an alternative ? "Okay, we aren't going to go after you or ask for the game to be removed from MAME - but if you did play Ketsui emulated and you did enjoy it then please feel free to pay what you think that game experience is worth. Suggested tip of $5. Donations over $40 get this exclusive "Ketsui Support Team" B2 poster!"

Knowing how CAVE operates, you will unfortunately see a re-print of this soon to be rare poster for a measly $10 in their online shop or at a Matsuri event.

Nobody needs freeloaders.

Wait a minute. How about the freeloaders who boast about how awesome the CAVE games are for all the Internet to see/read on their blog/Facebook page/Twitter account? This will surely not only attract more freeloaders, but also future CAVE home port customers, or even people buying PCBs from CAVE directly?

[charlie chong]

nobody needs neorichieb1971 opinions either but we still have to put up with it or scroll past the walls of text.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Im in total agreement about the fact that 1st gen Cave on Mame is the main reason there exists a non japanese fanbase. Having the PGM games coming to mame will also do Cave good in the long run (especially gamers who love DDP but hate the chaining will descover the scoring delight of point blanking) and besides most of the games are already emulated on the PS2

As for the OPs question about the PGM games been a freebee too many, I think it aslong as none of the games on the current hardware are emulated Cave will be fine.Aslong as they continue release new games and content (thats good) ppl will buy as everyone lusts after the new games. (plus might make demand for a cheap DL version of ketsui in 5 years time just like Guwange XBLA)

However whist we know PGM cave on MAME is a good thing. Caves partners the publishers might take a totally different view and who knows what future deals this could jeperdise. (Although I have a feeling the west is only going to see localised DS1 & 2 no matter what happens on mame (but I secretly hopes DFK will get localised)

[neorichieb1971]

nobody needs neorichieb1971 opinions either but we still have to put up with it or scroll past the walls of text.

Well it seems i'm on the verge of being hated around here. For what reason I don't know.

I have decided to lurk in opinionated threads. You might see me in hardware or trading. Best of luck with your high and mighty forum.

No really!

The way you treat posters here is sometimes bullyish. All I have done is give my opinion.

Gay sex is ok, tacos is ok, MEOWS are ok. If someone talks in a trading thread its ok, if I talk in a trading thread I get told to fuck off.

What is that all about?

I've done so many trade threads with you all.. I helped viletim realize the dream of the Jamma SCART adapter.

I've only done good, only to be ignored. I've been here since the new forum was made. I've never said a word out of place to any of you.

So merry Xmas. I'm not coming here to be insulted anymore. You got your way.

[emphatic]

nobody needs neorichieb1971 opinions either but we still have to put up with it or scroll past the walls of text.

At least his CAPS aren't locked.

[kernow]

GUYS KETSUI IN MAME

*nerdgush*

[emphatic]

I just found this: http://www.ppl-pilot.com.nyud.net/mame.aspx

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

nobody needs neorichieb1971 opinions either but we still have to put up with it or scroll past the walls of text.

Well it seems i'm on the verge of being hated around here. For what reason I don't know.

I have decided to lurk in opinionated threads. You might see me in hardware or trading. Best of luck with your high and mighty forum.

No really!

The way you treat posters here is sometimes bullyish. All I have done is give my opinion.

Gay sex is ok, tacos is ok, MEOWS are ok. If someone talks in a trading thread its ok, if I talk in a trading thread I get told to fuck off.

What is that all about?

I've done so many trade threads with you all.. I helped viletim realize the dream of the Jamma SCART adapter.

I've only done good, only to be ignored. I've been here since the new forum was made. I've never said a word out of place to any of you.

So merry Xmas. I'm not coming here to be insulted anymore. You got your way.

There are indeed many dicks here. I'm tempted to post a deal with it gif, but I've got to admit that the high-and-mighty attitude displayed on this forum has increasingly been getting on my nerves the last half year. There are still lots of nice people around, but it's difficult to stay clear of the douchebags when they feel obliged to start a flamewar over basically nothing every time somebody opens his yap and makes an over-generalized statement.

[Obiwanshinobi]

(especially gamers who love DDP but hate the chaining will descover the scoring delight of point blanking)

As if Omega Fighter Special wasn't good enough in this regard...

[kernow]

street fighter 2 emulated in mame guys

world warrior

sf2

[Krull]

Mame devs make my day!
Legal issues on an 8-year old game? What a joke

_K

[apatia77]

First of all, I own both ketsui and doj for xbox 360.

If the games are no longer in print then Cave can no longer sell more copies therefore make more profit right? These games are 8+ years old. I don't see how this can damage Cave in any way, it can only bring them some loyal customers for future releases.

PS2 is already emulated and DOJ plays quite well on emulator, also we can all forget old consoles as these are just rare collector items only to be honest, similar with PCBs.

What we need is region free releases or region free consoles. Not some bullshit that DS1 is coming out in Europe next year, I couldn't care less as I already got the Japanese version, I'm not buying the same game twice just to support anyone even that I really would want to but money doesn't grow on trees for me.

[Keade]

What we need is region free releases or region free consoles. Not some bullshit that DS1 is coming out in Europe next year, I couldn't care less as I already got the Japanese version, I'm not buying the same game twice just to support anyone even that I really would want to but money doesn't grow on trees for me.

This.

[Skykid]

nobody needs neorichieb1971 opinions either but we still have to put up with it or scroll past the walls of text.

At least he's unique. I like the fact he sticks to his arguments, even if they're pretty left-field.

[captpain]

What we need is region free releases or region free consoles. Not some bullshit that DS1 is coming out in Europe next year, I couldn't care less as I already got the Japanese version, I'm not buying the same game twice just to support anyone even that I really would want to but money doesn't grow on trees for me.

This is really the beginning and the end.

[jonny5]

nobody needs neorichieb1971 opinions either but we still have to put up with it or scroll past the walls of text.

Well it seems i'm on the verge of being hated around here. For what reason I don't know.

I have decided to lurk in opinionated threads. You might see me in hardware or trading. Best of luck with your high and mighty forum.

No really!

The way you treat posters here is sometimes bullyish. All I have done is give my opinion.

Gay sex is ok, tacos is ok, MEOWS are ok. If someone talks in a trading thread its ok, if I talk in a trading thread I get told to fuck off.

What is that all about?

I've done so many trade threads with you all.. I helped viletim realize the dream of the Jamma SCART adapter.

I've only done good, only to be ignored. I've been here since the new forum was made. I've never said a word out of place to any of you.

So merry Xmas. I'm not coming here to be insulted anymore. You got your way.

Come now; there's no need for that Richie.

[NR777]

I just found this: http://www.ppl-pilot.com.nyud.net/mame.aspx

Almost posted that earlier today. Great article.