Legality, etc. split from Ketsui emulation thread

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THE
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Legality, etc. split from Ketsui emulation thread

Post by THE »

gray117 wrote:Firstly, it is nice to see preservation and exploration... but... so ... er ... what happened a la legal concerns?

And I hope everyone enjoying this offsets some karma by buying a port or some merch ...

... I know they didn't help themselves much - I really don't know why more companies don't sell classic ports on steam, doj 360 patchery madness etc - but I'd hate to see cave's [fragile] shmup market suffer via emulation...

...And again see the pc crowd vilified as the piratical enemy of game developers...
Emulation never is really for preservation, it just a nice word used to distract from the real reasons: narcissism of the emulation developers, getting attention from the kids and having power about them. In case of Mame probably money is involved too (donations and licensing).

I would say it's the best thing that could happen to Cave. They already licensed those game out or ported them themselves. Like with the DoDonpachi emulation it will generate a lot of new Cave fanboys in the west. While those people are now too poor or ignorant to actually pay for their games, they maybe will do in the future.

This will probably harm Doujin devs and small Shmup developers though, as the interest in other games will drop for some time...but this problem can be overcome by the developers themselves with increasing quality or offering different enough experiences to Cave.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Pulsewidth »

I'd pay for the rom files if Cave got most of it, but a port or PCB is in every way inferior to a correctly configured emulator. I'd guess less than 1% of emulator users configure them correctly.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by bcass »

THE wrote:
gray117 wrote:Firstly, it is nice to see preservation and exploration... but... so ... er ... what happened a la legal concerns?

And I hope everyone enjoying this offsets some karma by buying a port or some merch ...

... I know they didn't help themselves much - I really don't know why more companies don't sell classic ports on steam, doj 360 patchery madness etc - but I'd hate to see cave's [fragile] shmup market suffer via emulation...

...And again see the pc crowd vilified as the piratical enemy of game developers...
Emulation never is really for preservation, it just a nice word used to distract from the real reasons: narcissism of the emulation developers, getting attention from the kids and having power about them. In case of Mame probably money is involved too (donations and licensing).

I would say it's the best thing that could happen to Cave. They already licensed those game out or ported them themselves. Like with the DoDonpachi emulation it will generate a lot of new Cave fanboys in the west. While those people are now too poor or ignorant to actually pay for their games, they maybe will do in the future.

This will probably harm Doujin devs and small Shmup developers though, as the interest in other games will drop for some time...but this problem can be overcome by the developers themselves with increasing quality or offering different enough experiences to Cave.
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Last edited by bcass on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by gray117 »

austere wrote:
gray117 wrote:what happened a la legal concerns?
Read my earlier posts regarding that... 8)
gray117 wrote:And I hope everyone enjoying this offsets some karma by buying a port or some merch ...
Not everyone goes by slave morality. Believe me, the greatest fans of Cave are dumping huge amounts of money into that company's balance book. Ketsui on MAME will only create more Cave fanatics like me. I had heard of DoDonPachi ages ago while I was an undergraduate in University, but I never tried it out. Once I fired it up in MAME ... well, yeah.
I can't see anything about the any specific legal concerns being addressed - only that details were vague and that in your opinion Guwange shows they don't mind... where 'coping with it' and 'being happy with it', are two very different matters imho.

Dodonpachi is still a good advert right? ... Do you need doj as an advert as well?... And ketsui? ... How many adverts vs. sellable games does cave need?

...depends what do you consider a huge amount of money? I'd hardly suggest the cave shmup division is oozing money, nor - more importantly - I also don't believe their market is operating effectively; especially as a market leader in their genre.

Pcs + internet has rarely been great for allowing gamers to choose what/when they pay - witness world of goo charity game gets pirated...
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Zeron »

Man I can't wait for the new shmup MAME build Nimitz sure knows how to do miracles with it.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by david peterson »

gray117 wrote:
austere wrote:
gray117 wrote:what happened a la legal concerns?
Read my earlier posts regarding that... 8)
gray117 wrote:And I hope everyone enjoying this offsets some karma by buying a port or some merch ...
Not everyone goes by slave morality. Believe me, the greatest fans of Cave are dumping huge amounts of money into that company's balance book. Ketsui on MAME will only create more Cave fanatics like me. I had heard of DoDonPachi ages ago while I was an undergraduate in University, but I never tried it out. Once I fired it up in MAME ... well, yeah.

I can't see anything about the any specific legal concerns being addressed - only that details were vague and that in your opinion Guwange shows they don't mind... where 'coping with it' and 'being happy with it', are two very different matters imho.

Dodonpachi is still a good advert right? ... Do you need doj as an advert as well?... And ketsui? ... How many adverts vs. sellable games does cave need?

...depends what do you consider a huge amount of money? I'd hardly suggest the cave shmup division is oozing money, nor - more importantly - I also don't believe their market is operating effectively; especially as a market leader in their genre.

Pcs + internet has rarely been great for allowing gamers to choose what/when they pay - witness world of goo charity game gets pirated...
Why do you care so much? are you secretly employed by cave? Mame clearly has a policy on how long they wait before releasing a game to its not some free for all lets steal caves money fiasco .
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Vyxx »

its not some free for all lets steal caves money fiasco .
But when the port just came out, you are.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by david peterson »

Vyxx wrote:
its not some free for all lets steal caves money fiasco .
But when the port just came out, you are.
Region locked to japan on a fail suicide console ? im sorry if some impatient people are butthurt because they just gave up alot of money for a joke console to play this but sometimes you gotta be dollar smart to .
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Lance Boyle »

Vyxx wrote:
its not some free for all lets steal caves money fiasco .
But when the port just came out, you are.
If CAVE wanted profit, why didn't they sell us their games?
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Kaspal »

Vyxx wrote:
its not some free for all lets steal caves money fiasco .
But when the port just came out, you are.
if it was RF, i would whole heartedly agree with you, but since they opt pretty often to region lock their stuff, i dont look at this event as stealing... i like many others would have bought the game if we had the means to play it (no J360 for me yet), but since they opted to region lock, we had to wait for a western release or something... and this right here its sorta like it.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by emphatic »

What you are missing though is that CAVE didn't do the port, 5pb did, and CAVE has nothing to do with it not being Region Free. Feel free to read up on the discussion about region free this or that before busting a cap in your own foot.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Lance Boyle »

-- Delete this post, austere's response has made it irrelevant --
Last edited by Lance Boyle on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by gray117 »

david peterson wrote: Why do you care so much? are you secretly employed by cave?
No, but I am on an internet forum about shmups... reading about some emulation of shmups...tis natural I'd have an opinion ? :P

To me it just speaks to the [social and monetary] value of something I enjoy - and to be fair its a problem that games in general face; let alone this niche section of it...


Don't take too seriously but: emulation; please use responsibly...

Reminds me of the futility of promoting 'please drink responsibly'...

One use games; now there's an idea no one would like...

I should probably stop pissing in the wind...

... I am all for emulation - but in that respect I also don't want it being stomped on by someone some day - I feel we keep getting closer and closer to someone taking serious issue with it...
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by EPS21 »

gray117 wrote:
david peterson wrote: Why do you care so much? are you secretly employed by cave?
No, but I am on an internet forum about shmups... reading about some emulation of shmups...tis natural I'd have an opinion ? :P

To me it just speaks to the [social and monetary] value of something I enjoy - and to be fair its a problem that games in general face; let alone this niche section of it...


Don't take too seriously but: emulation; please use responsibly...

Reminds me of the futility of promoting 'please drink responsibly'...

One use games; now there's an idea no one would like...

I should probably stop pissing in the wind...

... I am all for emulation - but in that respect I also don't want it being stomped on by someone some day - I feel we keep getting closer and closer to someone taking serious issue with it...
a lot of people here, despite the failure of the region-locked system of these games, religiously keep buying every iteration of Cave's releases, because we just love them that much. For those here who don't currently have the monetary means to invest in an import system + the games, I'm betting they'd gladly do so should the necessary disposable income be available at a later time. Your efforts are better spent on other communities where people shamelessly pirate shmups and fuck all everything.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Vyxx »

david peterson wrote:
Vyxx wrote:
its not some free for all lets steal caves money fiasco .
But when the port just came out, you are.
Region locked to japan on a fail suicide console ? im sorry if some impatient people are butthurt because they just gave up alot of money for a joke console to play this but sometimes you gotta be dollar smart to .
1. The "Red Ring of Death" crap with the 360 has been fixed.
2. I don't own a 360, but please, continue the insults.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by david peterson »

Vyxx wrote: 1. The "Red Ring of Death" crap with the 360 has been fixed.
lol in what dimension? i know many people who have had multiple "fixed " systems , there still dying.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by Zeron »

So a thread about bugfixes etc turns into this crap
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by CptRansom »

OH BOY I CAN'T WAIT TO READ MORE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE KETSUI DUMP
Some people in this thread wrote:Tons of irrelevant bullshit.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by bsidwell »

Zeron wrote:So a thread about bugfixes etc turns into this crap
This is how general chat forums work.

BTW is there something wrong with gray117's period key, it seems to be randomly activating itself -- oh, wait, he just types like a douchebag. Never mind.
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Re: Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by gray117 »

CaptainRansom wrote:OH BOY I CAN'T WAIT TO READ MORE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE KETSUI DUMP
Some people in this thread wrote:Tons of irrelevant bullshit.
DAMMIT
Well I hope you're right - it may not seem irrelevant such dumps are requested to be pulled or if there are any wider implications. If this very general thread is now to be about bug fixes I suggest renaming it.

To be fair, although not irrelevant, I'm sure many of my answers in this thread might be better suited to why are shmups niche etc...

edit: Sorry about any typing mistakes/habits, but please, no insults.
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Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

Post by mjclark »

austere wrote:
gray117 wrote:what happened a la legal concerns?
Read my earlier posts regarding that... 8
I certainly don't want to distract from all the excellent R&D- like many others I'm blown away that this emulation is happening and hats off to those who are making it so, and with such speed now that the ball's actually rolling.
But I too have posed this question and am really interested in the answer cos the start of this thread has many replies where it's suggested that Ketsui emulation won't happen for many years for legal rasther than technical reasons and yet here it is.
I'm also not trying to create any controversy cos I think this is GRRREEEAAAATTTT (and I suspect that if a lot of people on this forum new my opinions about intellectual property they'd probably want me strung from a lamppost) but I'd love to know. It appears to be back-pedalling but I'm sure it isn't because from what I can gather the MAME devs are sober and thoughtful people who must have given this a lot of consideration.
If it's not appropriate to post a reply on a public forum then please PM me cos I'm fascinated :D
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