Will the PS2 be the last great console for 2d shmups?

[Zeron]

Man the PS2 era it was so much easier to import, the 360 era has been a bitch to me I bought a PAL 360 late 2008 and I was so confident something like Swap Magic would be released or some kind region patching tool, no such thing exists right now , so I had to JTAG. it was so much easier to buy import adapter then just pop in your game oh well..

[ST Dragon]

So Sony's need for HD games is possibly part of the reason why I don't have Gradius VI? MOTHER...

Possibly, but like Kaiser said, its just a rumor...

If it was so, then why didn't Konami just release Gradus VI on the X-Box 360 like Otomedius Gorgeous ?

And what's the excuse for the Wii not having any shooters? After all, Nintendo was never a shooting platform, N64 & GameCube had very few.
The NES & SNES were the last Nintendo systems to have many shooters.

[manaka]

Nothing in this case... the argument is whether the genre is actually Japanese or not, there for to justify a support by the said Japanese console companies.

Whether the genre is Japanese or not still has nothing to do with what console it's released for. If the games sell, the developers will continue to support it on said console. There is no higher order than that.

But I guess I'm just too romantic...

I can certainly think of a term to describe your current sentiments, however, romantic would not be what comes to mind...

And to answer the topic's question, yes PS2 is the last great console for 2d shmups. 360 may have many shmups from cave however it doesn't make it best because the shmup library on ps2 is way better that's one, second is that you actually have to buy a japanese 360 instead of modding your ps2 for imports.

Best shmup libarary is debatable and subjective. But the 360 has more than just Cave titles for it, past titles or future. As for playing imports, everyone I've known since the PS2 days have bought JP consoles to play imports, so I don't see anything more of a problem with buying a JP 360. And as an added bonus, many games released in other regions outside of Japan (Asia, US) are region free, so you could squeeze by this gen with just one console, whereas in the PS2 days you had to always have two consoles if you really wanted to play both libraries.

And nowadays, like you've done, people can JTAG their 360s to make them region free, so it's almost in essence a solved problem.

PS. This is a rumor however there is no other logical explanation.

Seeing the Mamoru-kun port definitely confirms it. Sony just won't allow shmups because they're not 16:9 full screen HD. You could argue "their loss" but the shmup market is so small and insignificant in Japan and abroad that it doesn't really matter to them.

And what's the excuse for the Wii not having any shooters?

Because the Wii actually has a couple of shooters now? But practically all of the titles bombed, so the developers had to make 360 versions too?

[ST Dragon]

But I guess I'm just too romantic...

I can certainly think of a term to describe your current sentiments, however, romantic would not be what comes to mind...

What a coincidence! I too can think of a very similar word to "manaka" from my native tongue, but I think you would rather not know...

[manaka]

Except in my case, I would be calling you out in a way reflective of your true nature. In your case, it would be nothing short of ad hominem and slander. For a noble cause, I'm sure.

[ST Dragon]

Except in my case, I would be calling you out in a way reflective of your true nature. In your case, it would be nothing short of ad hominem and slander. For a noble cause, I'm sure.

Not too sure about that... based on your out of the blue attitude so far, I have not doubt that the word's meaning suits you perfectly.

[anji2128]

And what's the excuse for the Wii not having any shooters? After all, Nintendo was never a shooting platform, N64 & GameCube had very few.
The NES & SNES were the last Nintendo systems to have many shooters.

Who knows, at least we got the Milestone ones somehow. I had the collection at one point in time, but it didn't give it any play because I got Galuda 2 at the same time.
They do have WiiWare and Virtual Console on there side though. There's a ton of good shooters on there. Even if Gradius ReBirth is a pain in the ass, I think I just suck at flying sideways.

[Obiwanshinobi]

PSN:
Sonic Wings Special
Zanac X Zanac (for fuck's sake)
R-Types
R-Type Delta
Wolf Fang
Einhänder
Konami Antiques MSX Collection 1&2
DonPachi
DoDonPachi

I mean, really.

[renardqueenston]

i'm of the opinion that a great shmup console isn't made by re-releases of older stuff, but new material (such as donpachi + dodonpachi were new for the saturn and psx, but shouldn't count towards the ps3), but maybe that's just me. sure, you can play 'em on there, but it doesn't do anything for the genre or console itself, really. when einhander was released, it was something new for the genre and console. and so on. blab blab blab.

in this respect, at least, the 360 obviously has the running start.

[Obiwanshinobi]

All the hip cats played those 360 Cave shmups on PCBs before they got ported to 360, don't you know.
Which is not to say I think much of the PS3 as a shmups console. Just don't think 360 has got all that much on it (or Wii for that matter).

[renardqueenston]

All the hip cats played those 360 Cave shmups on PCBs before they got ported to 360, don't you know.

hahahaha yeah yeah ;] - the point is that they saw their first home incarnations on the console :]

[originalz]

Heh, people complaining that the 360 is nothing but Cave stuff...there's plenty of other stuff on it, and it's not like the 360 is dead yet. 2011 is full of announced releases from many different companies, and I'm sure we'll be seeing new announcements in the future. Why not wait until the system is nearly finished before passing judgement?

[Paradigm]

All the hip cats played those 360 Cave shmups on PCBs before they got ported to 360, don't you know.

The same can be said for the PS2 era, or any other for that matter.

Just don't think 360 has got all that much on it

Are you trolling?

Taken from Elixir's 'Guide to owning a Japanese 360' thread:

Shikigami no Shiro III
Raiden Fighters Aces
Raiden IV
Otomedius Gorgeous
Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label Extra
Shooting Love 200X
Death Smiles
Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta
Mushihimesama Futari
ESPGaluda II
Ketsui
Death Smiles II X
Strike Witches Shirogane no Tsubasa
Radirgy Noah
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu - Nov 25, 2010

Aegis Wing
Ikaruga
Triggerheart Excelica
Omega Five
R-Type Dimensions
Raystorm HD
Space Invaders: Infinity Gene
King of Fighters: Sky Stage
Guwange

Otomedius Excellent
Bullet Soul
Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets
Dangun Feveron
Radiant Silvergun
Eschatos

Plus all of the XBLIG releases.

To say that the 360 doesn't have much on it is downright silly.

[Obiwanshinobi]

All the hip cats played those 360 Cave shmups on PCBs before they got ported to 360, don't you know.

The same can be said for the PS2 era, or any other for that matter.

I don't think this gen consoles have got many genuine exclusives each. The same can't be said of 8-bit and 16-bit consoles. Even the PS2 got a handful of exclusives sporting reasonably high (i.e. beyond doujin standards) production values. Namely: Gradius V, R-Type Final and Thunder Force VI. For all the shit said about the last two, how many this gen console exclusives took this much effort to make? PixelJunk Shooter perhaps.

To say that the 360 doesn't have much on it is downright silly.

I meant 360 doesn't trump PS3 if you are not terribly into Cave shmups. The rivalry is not even on the Saturn vs PSX level.

[manaka]

I meant 360 doesn't trump PS3 if you are not terribly into Cave shmups. The rivalry is not even on the Saturn vs PSX level.

And exactly how many original/sole arcade port shooters does the PS3 have? Most of the PSN shmups you've listed are library classics, games who's exact version could be played on the original console it was released for.

[Elixir]

I meant 360 doesn't trump PS3 if you are not terribly into Cave shmups. The rivalry is not even on the Saturn vs PSX level.

• Shikigami no Shiro III
  Raiden Fighters Aces
  Raiden IV
  Otomedius Gorgeous
  Shooting Love 200X
  Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta
  Strike Witches Shirogane no Tsubasa
  Radirgy Noah
  
  Aegis Wing
  Ikaruga
  Triggerheart Excelica
  Omega Five
  R-Type Dimensions
  Raystorm HD
  Space Invaders: Infinity Gene
  King of Fighters: Sky Stage
  
  Otomedius Excellent
  Bullet Soul
  Radiant Silvergun
  Eschatos

[Bootaaay]

Yeah, once you discount the PS1/TG16 shooters available from the JPSN store, the PS3 really has jack going for it except for Soldner X 1 & 2 and those kinda crappy doujin shooters that got released a while back.

[Elixir]

This thread is one of the worst predictions of the future ever.

[originalz]

You guys are also forgetting the new G.Rev game coming out on XBLA next year. Hell though, if you're going to use the archive games as a PS3 strength, then nothing beats the Wii once you include Virtual Console. I can't even imagine how long that list would be, especially if you look at the Japanese store.

Ah well, this thread is interesting as a history lesson for us all. It did seem unlikely, but shooters are as healthy as ever in this current generation! Heh, it'll be interesting to see how things go for the next gen.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Personally I think that shmups will go though some sort of change over the next few years, in a bid to attract more gamer into the genre and keep the genre commercially viable for mainstream release. Shmups have already gone loli, iphone touchscreen and have noob friendly modes. Of which I dont have any trouble with but what worries me is that shmups will continue to evolve into something most of us here will hate in a bid to attract a new generation of gamers

[manaka]

*non-Cave shooters list*

And don't forget Strania and Trouble Witches Neo! as well. Anyone who tries to claim the output between the two consoles are similar clearly has an agenda to pull.

[Kaiser]

those kinda crappy doujin shooters that got released a while back.

They're far from being crappy so watch what you say. Nonetheless ps3 either way loses against 360 so anyone who buys ps3 for shmups alone, is an idiot. Because obviously a J360 is a better choice for anyone who already has JPS2. Soldner X1 = Very bad/unbalanced/boring. Soldner X2: Final Prototype + last chapter DLC in a bundle = Interesting/balanced/varied. But honestly, PS3 IS just not the shmup console if you're looking for a fresh air in shmups genre. Games like Soldner X2 or rockin` android releases are merely a bonus.

If you want shmups (not just cave), get J360 or JPS2 if you don't have it. However if you already have a PS3 for HD (just like I do) games like Uncharted, get Soldner X2 or Rockin` android releases (It is not hard to make an US account and get PSN cards off ebay, US ones that is). Simple as that, we can only blame Sony for being such dicks when it comes to 2D, not the developers.

[Obiwanshinobi]

And exactly how many original/sole arcade port shooters does the PS3 have? Most of the PSN shmups you've listed are library classics, games who's exact version could be played on the original console it was released for.

But what classics they are... Some of them happen to be my very favourite shmups, quite expensive if you're after original discs, now available without getting around region lock. This has to count for something if you care about those particular games dearly.

• Shikigami no Shiro III
  Raiden Fighters Aces
  Raiden IV
  Otomedius Gorgeous
  Shooting Love 200X
  Mamoru-kun wa Norowarete Shimatta
  Strike Witches Shirogane no Tsubasa
  Radirgy Noah
  
  Aegis Wing
  Ikaruga
  Triggerheart Excelica
  Omega Five
  R-Type Dimensions
  Raystorm HD
  Space Invaders: Infinity Gene
  King of Fighters: Sky Stage
  
  Otomedius Excellent
  Bullet Soul
  Radiant Silvergun
  Eschatos

And how many of them are not available for any other home platform? R-type Dimensions and RayStorm HD don't count as genuinely new games, do they?
I wouldn't say PS3 trumps 360 by any stretch of imagination either (even Zanac X Zanac can be countered with Raiden Fighter Aces in terms of value for money), but since Sony seems to be getting the clue about demand for certain PSX oldies (as the PSN release of Gaia Seed would indicate), chances are PSN will get even more vintage shmups worth playing (some fairly sacred stuff included).

[Elixir]

chances are PSN will get even more vintage shmups worth playing (some fairly sacred stuff included).

Which aren't shmups for PS3.

[Kaiser]

chances are PSN will get even more vintage shmups worth playing (some fairly sacred stuff included).

Which aren't shmups for PS3.

Remember, ports of old games DO NOT count Obiwan. THEY DO NOT count, they are not original and they come from old times. We're looking at entirely new shmups to start with.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Yeah, who needs ancient Parodius, Pippols, Penguin Adventure and then some in one region free package when you can have region locked, new, shiny Otomedius? Don't know whether it's Konami or Sony holding back Konami Antiques MSX Collection Vol. 3, but can you blame either while Konami rocks so hard on the 360?

[Kollision]

Heck, I have a hard time accepting games that do no exist in physical media, so these old games being released in PSN (Einhänder, Donpachi et al) and Wii VC just like they were originally are just crumbs.
They can't and should not count in any comparison/evaluation.

On topic, the PS2 is indeed the last great console for 2D shmups.
360 is picking up steam though, let's see how it stands in a couple of years.

[manaka]

Yeah, who needs ancient Parodius, Pippols, Penguin Adventure and then some in one region free package when you can have region locked, new, shiny Otomedius? Don't know whether it's Konami or Sony holding back Konami Antiques MSX Collection Vol. 3, but can you blame either while Konami rocks so hard on the 360?

The point is how does playing old games add any value to a console, much less more value than having new games on a console? Was the PS2 a great shmup console because of its numerous Saturn ports? Was the Saturn a great console because of its 16-bit ports?

You perhaps may enjoy living in the past indefinitely, but for the rest of the world that has thoroughly enjoyed and played their fill of those exact titles in the past, we look forward to new games to continually expand our horizons and experiences, otherwise the shmup genre would become a stagnant non-living mass that continuously eats itself.

[Skykid]

Which is not to say I think much of the PS3 as a shmups console. Just don't think 360 has got all that much on it

Probably worth pointing out that there is, and never has been any argument regarding which current gen console is superior for shmups. The 360 has ownership of the genre.

Just before y'all waste your time getting into a spat.

[Vyxx]

Just before y'all waste your time getting into a spat.

Too late

The 360 is the dominate player for console Shmups (ports) this generation, it's really not a contest.