Huge interview with Yu Suzuki on 1up.

[Drum]

It's not complete yet - they're dragging it out for hits - but there's still plenty to chew on if you're interested in the work of the man who almost singlehandedly tried (and nearly succeeded) in transforming arcades into a corny, lame amusement park for people too fat to go on rollercoasters. Renowned and mystifyingly respected for carney gimmicks and toilet-paper thin 'gameplay' roughly on the same level as putting a ping pong ball in a rotating clown head - who else but Yu Suzuki had the vision to take established, currently popular genre and add no new ideas? Who else had a monomaniac obsession with cutting-edge, quickly-dated technical performance at the expense of everything else, thus helping to ensure the steady decline of the arcade? Oh well, at least Sega made some awesome console games (except for Shenmue).
Discuss! ( )

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3182648

EDIT: Remember - smileys give me magic immunity from accusations of trolling.

[Skykid]

Why diss Yu Suzuki?

[junkeR]

What was with the Suzuki hate?

[Elixir]

Hmm, yeah, guy responsible for the likes of Shenmue and Daytona USA versus an unemployed New Zealander shitposting on internet forums at 2 am.

I don't like the odds of this handicap.

[dan76]

shitposting on internet forums at 2 am.

Well, you'd be the expert on that - wouldn't you.

There is an element of truth to the OP.

[Elixir]

Well, you'd be the expert on that - wouldn't you.

Perhaps that comment of mine was trolling. Maybe I should have added a smiley face (see my point now?)

There is an element of truth to the OP.

If your "elements of truth" are taken from baseless angry nerd rage, then yeah.

[Skykid]

The OP's comments must be parody, much of it represents the polar opposite of what Yu Suzuki contributed to the arcade scene. Without his creative input, the arcade may have declined a lot faster than it did rather than the other way around. The unfortunate truth is, where Suzuki was an innovator in his day, it's sadly only his template of arcade gaming that remains, albeit in a drastically uninspired form. 'Gimmick' gaming is all arcades have become now, but although he's responsible for founding that type of experience, it's hardly his fault that his is the only trend to survive arcade death.

[Drum]

Hmm, yeah, guy responsible for the likes of Shenmue and Daytona USA versus an unemployed New Zealander shitposting on internet forums at 2 am.

I am not unemployed. What makes you think I am unemployed? I work nights, though. And I am currently on holiday for a week and a half in Takaka. Also, Suzuki wasn't involved in Daytona USA and Shenmue sucks.

There is an element of truth to the OP

'Element'?!? I will defend every word in gentlemanly debate. Ok, obviously there's a lot of hyperbole (and, yes, nerd rage), but the core of it is dead on. Sure, Suzuki isn't to blame for arcades turning into funhouses - I wouldn't credit him, that was at the heart of it since the mid-70s and as Skykid said he's not to blame for his imitators, and he's hardly the pioneer he's made out to be - but he did his part. Would there have been more gameplay-driven games like Robotron, Bubble Bobble, Major Havoc, Exterminator, Gradius, I Robot, Tetris and Quantum if Suzuki's oversized and expensive teacup rides hadn't been absorbing the money and space? I don't know, and I should shut up and stop pretending I do - but it's not hard to imagine something better than what we got. The big take away from this interview for me, aside from the re-confirmation that Miekle is a terrible writer, interviewer and human being, is that Yu Suzuki joined Sega in 1983 - two years after the release of Turbo and the same year Sega released Buck Rogers: Planet of Zoom (which he had nothing to do with). Which makes his contribution ... what? Serious question.

Here, according to wiki, is a list of Suzuki's major works:

Champion Boxing 1984 --- Producer / Director
Champion Pro Wrestling 1985 --- Producer / Director
Space Harrier 1985 Sega Space Harrier hardware Producer / Director
Hang-On 1985 Sega Space Harrier hardware Producer / Director
Out Run 1986 Sega Out Run hardware Producer / Director
Super Hang-On 1986 Sega Space Harrier hardware Producer
Enduro Racer 1986 Sega Space Harrier hardware Producer / Director
After Burner 1987 Sega X Board Producer / Director
After Burner II 1987 Sega X Board Producer / Director
Power Drift 1988 Sega Y Board Producer / Director
Turbo Outrun 1989 Sega Out Run hardware Producer
G-LOC: Air Battle 1990 Sega Y Board Producer / Director
Virtua Racing 1992 Sega Model 1 Producer / Director
Virtua Fighter 1993 Sega Model 1 Director
Virtua Cop 1994 Sega Model 2 Producer
Virtua Fighter 2 1994 Sega Model 2 Producer / Director
Virtua Cop 2 1995 Sega Model 2 Producer
Virtua Fighter 3 1996 Sega Model 3 Producer
Virtua Fighter 3 Team Battle 1997 Sega Model 3 Producer
Ferrari F355 Challenge 1999 Sega NAOMI Producer / Director
Shenmue 1999 Dreamcast Producer / Director
Shenmue II 2001 Dreamcast, Xbox Producer / Director
Propeller Arena 2001 Cancelled Dreamcast Producer
Virtua Fighter 4 2001 Sega NAOMI 2, PS2 Executive director
Suzuki Yu - Game Works Vol. 1 2002 Dreamcast
Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution 2002 Sega NAOMI 2 / PS2 Executive director
Virtua Fighter 4 Final Tuned 2003 Sega NAOMI 2 Producer
Propeller Arena 2003 Leaked Online Dreamcast Executive director
Virtua Cop 3 2003 Sega Chihiro Executive director
OutRun 2 2003 Sega Chihiro Producer
Shenmue Online Cancelled PC Director
Psy-Phi 2005 Cancelled Sega Lindbergh Producer
Sega Race TV 2008 Sega Lindbergh Director
Shenmue City

This is the work of the 'mother' of gaming? This is hardly inspired stuff. Space Harrier? Afterburner? Hang On? Virtua Cop? Those games are barely a notch above Super Don Quixote. There aren't two novel gameplay mechanics to rub together on that list. Even many of the technological accomplishments he is usually credited with (and is credited with in the article) he can't lay claim to - Virtua Racing wasn't the first fully polygonal racer, and that's a pretty minor deal anyway. Suzuki's contribution to the canon is virtually nil - narrowly technical at best. Underappreciated? Really? Tell that to Fukio Mitsuji. Tell that to Eugene Jarvis. Tell that to Owen Rubin. Tell that to ... I don't even know the lead designer of Gradius. And neither do you, probably, whoever is reading this. On a shmups board. Now that's underappreciated. Hell, Shigeru Miyamoto is underappreciated next to Yu Suzuki - he produced MoleMania! The creators of I Robot (who I also don't know, and probably neither do you) will tell you you don't have to sacrifice ideas and gameplay for technical wizardy and sideshow gimmicks. What's Suzuki's excuse?

[/spluttering e-tantrum]

[Elixir]

For some reason I thought he was involved with Daytona. Disregard that.

It seems like a lot of your hate stems from disliking Shenmue. I don't like most of what Capcom makes but I'm not going to diss them over it.

[E. Randy Dupre]

It's absolutely hilarious that you can reel off a list that includes OutRun 2, Virtua Fighter and Virtua Cop, and then claim that "there aren't two novel gameplay mechanics to rub together on that list". Absolutely. Hilarious.

I have a great hatred for Shenmue, but seriously, you couldn't have made a more obvious troll topic if you'd tried. Or stupid post. One or the other.

[Drum]

It's absolutely hilarious that you can reel off a list that includes OutRun 2, Virtua Fighter and Virtua Cop, and then claim that "there aren't two novel gameplay mechanics to rub together on that list". Absolutely. Hilarious.

Go on. I'm serious. What are the novel game mechanics of Virtua Fighter, Outrun 2 and Virtua Cop? No troll. Virtua Fighter came closest, but however deep or balanced it is, the core mechanics are boilerplate - it's a classic example of 'spreadsheet gaming' (without, you know, the spreadsheet). I don't know where you think you're going bringing up Outrun 2 or Virtua Cop, those are stock examples of barebones, by-the-numbers games - especially Virtua Cop, which is as generic as they come. Outrun 2 gets a half mark for Heart Attack mode, but at best that was a trivial twist on a well-explored gameplay concept. Which doesn't mean it wasn't fun, natch.

Elixir: Within the first 15 minutes of the first time I played Shenmue I got stuck behind the old lady as she was doing kitchen duties for 10 minutes. I had to reset the DC. I will never forgive Yu Suzuki for that. NEVER.

[dan76]

... I don't know Drum, you might have shot yourself in the foot with that list. There are some good arcade games on there.

Some of those "virtua" games haven't aged all that well though - and Shenmue... I really don't get all the love for that.

[junkeR]

Seriously, for its time, Shenmue was amazing. There wasn't anything like it back then.

Part 2 of the interview is up.

[Lance Boyle]

but however deep or balanced it is, the core mechanics are boilerplate

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!

those are stock examples of barebones, by-the-numbers games - especially Virtua Cop, which is as generic as they come.

dodge the bullets

[Elixir]

Elixir: Within the first 15 minutes of the first time I played Shenmue I got stuck behind the old lady as she was doing kitchen duties for 10 minutes. I had to reset the DC. I will never forgive Yu Suzuki for that. NEVER.

This is definitely worth hating the creator of many recognizable titles over, I agree.

Some of those "virtua" games haven't aged all that well though

Please explain how this is even entering the picture. How they look today has no bearing on how they influenced then.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I thought OP imitates for kicks the style of that banned chap's sock puppets linking to his wanksite.

[drauch]

Don't really care about the arguement, but Shenmue is still amazing!

[dan76]

Some of those "virtua" games haven't aged all that well though

Please explain how this is even entering the picture. How they look today has no bearing on how they influenced then.

How something ages is not just related to how it looks. Sure they may have had an influence, I wasn't denying that. It was just a personal opinion of some of the games in the list.

[louisg]

Wow, someone has a terrible grasp on video game history...

But then again, that's one way to get people to post on your thread!

[GaijinPunch]

Space Harrier...
After Burner...
Virtua Fighter 1-4...

'nuff said. Blow me.

EDIT: Little known fact, the guy started from the ground up, literally, punching holes in and wrapping PCBs.

[Limbrooke]

Hang-On, OutRun, Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Cop 2, F355 Challenge, and damn Propeller Arena even?! What a resume.

I bet Drum old bean had a run-in with Mr. Suzuki at some book signing at a mall. Hell, I'd be mad too. Mad I didn't meet the bastard who made some of the best arcade games ever sooner.

I enjoy chocolate covered pretzels.

[Skykid]

Shenmue sucks.

and Shenmue... I really don't get all the love for that.

I have a great hatred for Shenmue

Holy fucking fail Batman. I feel like a chump trying to push points when it comes to videogame respect, but you're desecrating shit here.
Despite it's linearity and shortcomings Shenmue is an ultimate videogame experience. If you don't 'get' it, it's cos you ain't given it the time it deserves.

What are the novel game mechanics of Virtua Fighter... however deep or balanced it is, the core mechanics are boilerplate - it's a classic example of 'spreadsheet gaming'

Someone get this dude a videogame education, and quick.

[Vyxx]

Holy fucking fail Batman. I feel like a chump trying to push points when it comes to videogame respect, but you're desecrating shit here.
Despite it's linearity and shortcomings Shenmue is an ultimate videogame experience. If you don't 'get' it, it's cos you ain't given it the time it deserves.

This. Shenmue is Godly.

[louisg]

I can see dissing Shenmue.. it was an amazing experience when it came out, but it's pretty thin on game. Outrun on the other hand.. people still play that one. In a couple decades, nobody will still be playing Forza or Gran Turismo for the same reasons nobody plays Flight Simulator II, Nascar from 1995, or Indianapolis 500: The Simulation anymore

[BulletMagnet]

Tone down the insults or this gets locked.

[Drum]

PMed a mod asking for some sort of ... action. I don't know if the thread should be locked or split up or if I should be ejected into space or what, but hopefully help is on the way! Sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings.

[Drum]

Ooh, yay.

[GaijinPunch]

I'd really want to know only the two things about Drum

1) Age
2) Who he considers more influential

I'm barely old enough to remember these games in all their glory (I'm 35 and was between 10 and 15 when a lot of these games came out). If you're much younger and didn't go to arcades, obviously you would have a hard time realizing how influential they are.

Whether you like VF or not (sure, it's ugly as shit now) it has traditionally been to 3D fighting what SFII is to 2D fighting. I don't particularly love the Beetles, but the fact is they've influenced just about everyone in the Rock genre in some way. The whole Taiken concept was an uphill battle, and these are one of the few types of games that today separate the experience from playing in the arcade & home.

[louisg]

I'd really want to know only the two things about Drum

I'm barely old enough to remember these games in all their glory (I'm 35 and was between 10 and 15 when a lot of these games came out). If you're much younger and didn't go to arcades, obviously you would have a hard time realizing how influential they are.

Whether you like VF or not (sure, it's ugly as shit now) it has traditionally been to 3D fighting what SFII is to 2D fighting. I don't particularly love the Beetles, but the fact is they've influenced just about everyone in the Rock genre in some way. The whole Taiken concept was an uphill battle, and these are one of the few types of games that today separate the experience from playing in the arcade & home.

I think that's pretty dead-on. Virtua Fighter was hugely influential: it wasn't merely a 2d fighting game with 3d graphics, but instead it pioneered a style of gameplay that you just could not do in 2d. Then there's Outrun: Outrun added replayability and very tight gameplay to the Pole Position formula. It also had branching paths at a time when that was very rare (and still is to a degree). On a technical note, I don't know if there were hills in pseudo 3d racing games prior to Outrun.

And Virtua Cop: realize that at the time Virtua Cop came out, every gun game was an inaccurate machine-gun game like Mechanized Attack or T2. Virtua Cop put the emphasis on accuracy back into the game, which hadn't really been seen since the 8-bitters.

I'd also consider Shenmue influential; it was definitely the first time I walked around a full 3d, fully interactive, insanely detailed city. This had been done in games like Ultima before, but hadn't been done in such a virtual reality fashion. This is a few years before GTA 3 (and the older GTAs were anything but a 'walking around a real city' sort of experience). Is it a good game? I don't think so. But it definitely made a splash.

And Virtua Racing.. This brought fast arcade racing games into 3d. Before then, 3d racing games were all slower-paced simulations. That was pretty different at the time. I think he also worked on Daytona USA, which had a lot of depth and subtlety when it came to the controls and physics, and that wasn't matched for years after in that respect (and track design) IMO.

[Drum]

I'd really want to know only the two things about Drum

1) Age
2) Who he considers more influential

I'm barely old enough to remember these games in all their glory (I'm 35 and was between 10 and 15 when a lot of these games came out). If you're much younger and didn't go to arcades, obviously you would have a hard time realizing how influential they are.

Whether you like VF or not (sure, it's ugly as shit now) it has traditionally been to 3D fighting what SFII is to 2D fighting. I don't particularly love the Beetles, but the fact is they've influenced just about everyone in the Rock genre in some way. The whole Taiken concept was an uphill battle, and these are one of the few types of games that today separate the experience from playing in the arcade & home.

First of all, thanks a lot for replying respectfully. I realise some of my comments in this thread have pretty inflammatory, so it was pretty stupid of me to expect a reasonable discussion. But you stepped it up and raised the tone - I appreciate that.

1) I'll be 33 on January the 13th. I grew up in smoky arcades - I remember playing Moon Patrol and Kung Fu Master on the ferry. My first console was the Emerson Arcadia. The first machine I bought with my own money was an Atari Lynx. I find this line of inquiry into my history somewhat weird given the games I've name-dropped in this thread. Turbo, Buck Rogers:Planet of Zoom, I Robot, Major Havoc, Joust, Robotron, Quantum ... I don't know why I'm repeating them, we're still on the first page. Plus, look at the designers I mentioned - all of them were concurrent with Suzuki. Weird tack to take.

2) From the word go this tantrum has never been about Yu Suzuki not being influencial - not exactly.
It's been twofold - a lot of my bitching is about how Yu Suzuki has had a big influence, but that influence has been largely neutral and sometimes negative. Which is not his fault (I tried to make that clear), but I can still criticise that influence and the games that were so influential on their own merits. I did make some disparaging remarks about the simplistic nature of games like Hang-on, After Burner and Virtua Cop and I stand by that - in terms of gameplay, they were often an entire generation behind games released in the same period, and were frequently less sophisticated than much earlier games. Space Harrier had less going on upstairs than Buck Rogers or even Tunnel Hunt (which was released in, what, 1979?) - and technically those games, for their times, were more advanced than SH was in it's. Space Invaders, Asteroids, Space Dungeon, Sheriff - all have more sophisticated gameplay than SH. Arguably, Space Harrier didn't have any gameplay in the sense that there were no decisions to be made and the score was meaningless (Tunnel Hunt, while obscure for mostly good reasons, at least had that over SH). But hey, one-eyed mammoths and you can ride a luck dragon so it's not a total loss (not being sarcastic there btw, if you read the Weirdy Games thread you'll understand). I stand by those comments, but I won't press the issue any more. Games can be important for other reasons than their pure gameplay mechanics - otherwise Planet Harriers wouldn't suck worse than SH (that had some pretty cool co-op mechanics). Just so we're absolutely clear - Virtua Fighter I hold in much higher regard than a lot of his other stuff, and I don't hate it at all. I stand by my 'boilerplate' gameplay accusation, but that was probably unfair anyway - the game's focus is squarely on being a realistic representation of martial arts so I shouldn't expect any novel gameplay hooks or twists.

Secondly, I argued that his influence, positive or negative, is overstated (which on the face of it seems to contradict point one - maybe it does). Line up all the rail shooters (my personal '3rd worst genre ever' - right after FMV adventure games and rhythm games) and all the 3D racing games end to end and you see a continuum. Suzuki's stuff isn't the first, it isn't always the best at its time and it doesn't really stand out as truly extraordinary or visionary. They're just fun arcade racing/shooting games - technically ambitious, but not so much ahead of their time as they were of their time. His games were colourful, they grabbed attention, and they left an impression - but they don't stand out to any extraordinary degree ... yet who here knows who directed Change Lanes, Turbo, Pole Position, Buck Rogers, Night Stocker, Night Driver, or Mach Rider? Because next to those, Suzuki's games don't seem all that remarkable. Is it unfair to compare the work of one man with an army of anonymous designers? When the man's accomplishments have been narrowly technical and fleeting with it, I think so. My feeling is that if you've made your name by always being on the cutting edge, while never quite going beyond it, and you don't have (for example) Miyamoto's creative chops but you've been lionised regardless ... that's an issue for me and it does get my panties in a twist. I know I've embarrassed myself with a semi-meltdown but I'm not gonna apologise for caring about videogames on a shmup board.
His games like Virtua Fighter and Virtua Cop need fewer qualifiers before you can begin to aim some praise at them (Virtua Fighter a lot less so - even though it really was a 2D fighter with polygons in its first entry, whatever anybody says - there were 2D fighting games that preceded it that have more 3D gameplay than it did ... never mind that they're all terrible).

louisg: There were multiple racing games with hills in the background before Outrun, and some that were really open-ended. My fave racing game of the early 80s was Change Lanes, which is surprisingly freeform. Daytona USA was Nagoshi. No offence, but don't presume to lecture me on arcade history - but thanks a lot for being Exhibit A of why Yu Suzuki gets too much credit! kekeke

EDIT3: ohshit I just discovered Winning Run and Driver's Eyes! Namco