Just got an NEC XM29 Plus and am clueless (i hate myself)

[drauch]

Hi, I just got one of these today on the craigslist for 20 bucks. I've read they are good TVs for retro gaming, but I'm pretty clueless on how to get the "best" out of it. When I say clueless, I mean I am really stupid. And when I say I am really stupid, I have no idea about khz, scart, and that sort of thing. I've been trying and trying to research, but I cannot comprehend it. It's pretty embarrassing, but I'm so bad at math and numbers that I can't understand what to do. So...here is what I am asking:

*I would really appreciate if someone could help me in layman terms. I am a super nerd, but when it gets to this sort of technology I am left clueless

1.) I primarily play systems like Super Nintendo, Genesis, Saturn, PC-Engine, Supergun, etc. What are the best ways to play? I keep looking at boxes like XRGB (cannot afford at all) and the like. Do I need something like this? When I bought my PC-Engine Duo-r it came with an RGB Scart cable, and I notice that other systems like the SNES and Saturn you can buy these RGB scart cables as well; my only thing is I have no idea how to use such a thing. I know this XM29 has RGB inputs, but how do I get something like that to plug it in?

2.) I keep reading that this thing has thick scan lines? Are there things to help reduce scanlines and such?

I don't even know what else to ask. My only thing to add is I just need ANY recommendations to get maximum usage out of this thing, as I am quite excited to get a hold of one. As far as equipment add on goes, I would definitely prefer the cheapest route, as I cannot afford $200+ electronics.

I really appreciate the help. Sorry I sound like such an idiot. I kind of want to curl up and die.

[Arasoi]

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[drauch]

Sadly I'm really terrible with a soldering iron...something I am trying to improve. I may be able to try or get help with such a thing, though. If not, I don't mind going the buy route for such a thing.

I'm sorry...I'm still so confused. Now, the scart switch; is this simply just like an A/V switch for hooking up a number of consoles (dumb question on my part).

If I go the buy route with the cords, how exactly do I rewire the RGBs/L/R audio? I think I understand the rest...

And the part that is confusing me the most...let's say I get this thing all hooked up and have a scart switch with my game consoles plugged into...what exactly do I plug into the XM29 monitor itself? There are so many ports on the back that I am not familiar with. Like, I see the RGB throughput section that looks like a VGA cable port, then I see the RGB audio port, as well as the RGB 2 port with what looks like lots of RF ports (are these BNC ports?)

I cannot explain how much I APPRECIATE your help. Please have patience with me

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

Let me be the blasphemous one to point out that by far the easeiest way to connect most consoles, certainly the SNES and Saturn, is via simple, affordable and hassle free S-video cables.

I have the XM29, and been using S-video and can attest that it suffices with great picture clarity and colour saturation. If you are not keen on gettting a heap of spare parts and equipment to cobble together custom cabling for RGB, then just go S-video. RGB will technically get you a better picture, but you have ask yourself wither the diminutive difference is worth the effort. For some consoles you have no choice because the do not offer S-video out, but the SNES and Saturn do.

Just search eBay for your console of choice and the s-video and you'll likely find a few options. Don't buy anything being shipped from Hong Kong or china, some of those Chinese made S-video leads are not wired correct. As a rule of thumb buy the S-video lead that ends in just three wires, the S-video head, and two Audio ones for Left and right. None of that four headed S-video cables, with a composite yellow added for good measure. Also I'd go with the brand named ones if you can find them, any semi-famous third party manufacturer is fine.

The XM29 has two S-video inputs in the back, they are located in the area squared off as "Video 1" and "Video 2". Look at those two areas and you will see that they have two sets of identical connectors for everything. Among these identical ones you only want to use the one's labelled "Input". Find the S-video port labelled "Input" in the "Video 1" square, the port looks like a circle with a few holes in it.

Take the S-video end from your console and press it against this hole, and then align the holes with the pins by turning the head around until it inserts. Next dont forget to connect the two RCA red and white audio leads into the "Input" labelled audio ins in the same "Video 1" area. Now turn on your console and press the "Video 1" button on the front of your TV and off you, play some games.

As for the thick black spaces between scanlines, it has mainly been me complaining about them lately and there is nothing for you to do in that case. You either love the look or dont.

Saturn S-video:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sega-SATURN-System- ... 2701wt_881

SNES S-video:
http://cgi.ebay.com/S-Video-SVHS-Cable- ... _500wt_898

[Arasoi]

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[Endymion]

I would simply like to point out that settling for S-video alone after tracking down a 15khz RGB capable pro monitor(it isnt easy here in the states, trust me) is well.. not using it to its full potential. Yes the S-video will look nice on the monitor, better than a stock consumer set. But if you can use RGB, why not I say.

Well, because! Anything, and I do mean anything that you can build yourself is not official. It isn't sanctioned by Nintendo, Sony, Sega, NEC, or anybody else. You cobbled it together like a Frankenstein monster from spare parts! How can you ever present your games this way? The very idea that your perfectly-working setup was assembled in a garage is a pox on the way games are meant to be played. Shakespeare says nay!

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

cool story, brah

[drauch]

I can understand the argument for S-video being an underrated video format. I've even argued the same myself, with some evidence:



All taken from my 20N2U and from the same NES console (it has RGB/component/svideo/composite output), save for component which was a different set. I suppose that result could be discarded.

I would simply like to point out that settling for S-video alone after tracking down a 15khz RGB capable pro monitor(it isnt easy here in the states, trust me) is well.. not using it to its full potential. Yes the S-video will look nice on the monitor, better than a stock consumer set. But if you can use RGB, why not I say. I may be able to help you out with a few simple cable builds drauch, if need be.

Thank you everyone for your opinions thus far! I may use S-Video for a temporary solution on some systems, but I think I definitely want to go through the trouble and go the RGB route to get the best picture possible...

A lot of this is making sense so far, but the portion about the composite video and Hsync is baffling me the most. I think that one I may need to purchase some services for...

[Arasoi]

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[brentsg]

Actually it sounds like the best thing to do would be to sell the XM29.

I should be running thru Springfield during the holidays. You said $20?

[drunkninja24]

A bit OT, but man, that's a crazy deal. I can't believe one actually popped up on Craigslist and I missed it, I usually search for one every week or so just for shits and giggles, never expected one to actually show up, and especially not for that price.

One suggestion I have though, is to see if you can track down an Emotia to use with your 360/PC. It's what I use to put the system on my Astro City monitor, does scanlines and all and has direct RGBS output that could connect directly to the XM29 without any special circuits.

Speaking of PC, just to add another question to this discussion, does the XM29 support 15khz resolutions through the VGA ports? So say you had something like Soft15khz, could you use that with the PC on the XM29 to get true arcade resolution out of your games (or as close as you can get anyway)?

[drauch]

Actually it sounds like the best thing to do would be to sell the XM29.

I should be running thru Springfield during the holidays. You said $20?

Add on two more zeros and you have a deal!

[kamiboy]

I should be getting my XSELECT tomorrow, I'll give that 15khz through RGB15 port a try, but somehow I doubt it would work.

[tomwaits]

Congrats on the cheap XM29! I've had mine since Spring '09 and still amazed by the RGB picture quality. Took me a while to get all my systems wired up optimally, but once everything's wired right I think it's the most versatile 'large'ish CRT available for classic gaming. It'll support RGB, s-video, or composite... NTSC or PAL... Dreamcast VGA box... 480p on newer consoles... and it can easily tate.

I would definitely make the effort to get RGB from as many consoles as possible. The NES s-video in Arasoi's pic looks great, but I wonder if NES might be a little of an apples & oranges comparison? (since the NES doesn't support either s-video or RGB without mods) I suspect captures of s-video and RGB on a Saturn or something that can output both natively might show more improvement via RGB? I started out running my previous s-video wiring into the XM29 and usually saw a noticeable improvement as I upgraded wiring for each of my 90's or newer consoles.

I haven't modded any of my consoles, and the only converter I'm using is a component -> RGB box so that I can get 480p from component output. The component out consoles could also be wired for SCART RGB but that wouldn't support progressive scan.

I agree 100% with Arasoi's wiring recommendations. Just buy/build a SCART->15pin VGA or SCART->BNC cable with an LM1881 circuit to go from the SCART switcher to the monitor. Then you can gradually start swapping consoles to RGB with standard EuroSCART cables.


Here's how I currently have consoles wired for my XM29:
15-pin direct: Dreamcast VGA Box, Naomi @31kHz, laptop PC, Amiga 1200 (all modes), Atari ST (color or mono)
XCM component to RGB converter (set for no upscaling - no lag, runs @ 15kHz or 480p): Wii, Gamecube, PS2/PS3, Nuon, PSP
SCART RGB: Supergun/MVS (direct sync), Saturn, NGCD, Genesis 1/32x/CDX/PBC (SMS), SNES, Jaguar
s-video: N64, 3DO, CD-i, CD32
composite: TurboDuo, NES


The consoles that I'm running via s-video and composite would need to be modded in order to output RGB. I'm running everything with the best possible connection short of making console mods.





Also, I run my laptop in 15kHz modes for MAME and it works fine through the 15pin RGB input. It'd probably work through the BNC connection also but I haven't tried it. The only problem I have with my laptop is that the XM29 colors bleed badly when it's running in higher resolutions/refresh rates. Keep the desktop at 640x480 60Hz and drop to 15kHz for emulators and everything is great.

[drauch]

Just buy/build a SCART->15pin VGA or SCART->BNC cable with an LM1881 circuit to go from the SCART switcher to the monitor

How hard is it to make this? I'm especially unsure on my skills when working with that LM1881 circuit board. If you are Arasoi are interested I would pay for such a thing done...

[tomwaits]

The sync separator circuit is pretty easy to build. The LM1881 chip has legs so you can wrap wire around a leg, bend the leg over to pinch it, then stick with solder. Very basic soldering. A couple legs are unused too, so you can break them off and out of your way. The hardest part is trying to fit the LM1881 and resistors inside a SCART hood. There's enough space, but still a little like Tetris to put everything in there neatly.


Also, I'm using a different model SCART switcher than Arasoi. I have two switchers that are similar to this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SCART-Switch-Switch ... 56412885a6

They only have 3 inputs, but there are stereo RCA outputs on the switchbox.

[kamiboy]

does the XM29 support 15khz resolutions through the VGA ports?

Got my XSELECT today and I can attest that, yes it does. It seems there is no difference between the BNC and D-sub VGA inputs, they trigger the same set of options and generally behave the same.

[Arasoi]

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[drauch]

A bit OT, but man, that's a crazy deal. I can't believe one actually popped up on Craigslist and I missed it, I usually search for one every week or so just for shits and giggles, never expected one to actually show up, and especially not for that price.

One suggestion I have though, is to see if you can track down an Emotia to use with your 360/PC. It's what I use to put the system on my Astro City monitor, does scanlines and all and has direct RGBS output that could connect directly to the XM29 without any special circuits.

Speaking of PC, just to add another question to this discussion, does the XM29 support 15khz resolutions through the VGA ports? So say you had something like Soft15khz, could you use that with the PC on the XM29 to get true arcade resolution out of your games (or as close as you can get anyway)?

Ah, thanks for the tip! I'll probably try and get an emotia then, eventually.

And Arasoi, you have a pm!

[gunbird18]

NEC XM29 Plus for $20 --> gunbird18

Did this person just want to get rid of the thing because of the weight???

[drauch]

Haha, I really don't know...I bought it from a guy who worked as Prime Trucking Inc. I didn't talk to him too much, but I think it was just something they had around that wasn't getting any use anymore. It's in pretty damn good condition, although they may have cleaned it up some, possibly.

[gunbird18]

Ahh, okay...

Yeah, that is a big trucking company in your area. I guess they might have had it for training/video editing, ect...

What an incredible find!

If you tell me they included the remote, I will go jump off a bridge!

[drauch]

No remote, sadly, but I'm definitely not complaining!

[Matskat]

Actually it sounds like the best thing to do would be to sell the XM29.

I should be running thru Springfield during the holidays. You said $20?

Hahaha!

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking!

I could use an XM29...come ON man, you don;t need that old thing. Sell it to MEEEE!



I'll give ya fiddy for it :p

[jonny5]

The crazy thing is the XM29 xtra (the model I have) will do 1080i. It letterboxes it, but still!

Since we are talking costs I got it for $50 off craigslist; dude didn't have a clue what he had.

oh ya....came with the remote!

[drunkninja24]

Finally got a chance to see drauch's setup in person. Played Futari on 360 through VGA, and it looks incredible. Maybe another will pop up at some point....