derailment from Pink Sweets thread

[jpj]

But seriously, I think a good portion of Ketsui praise on this forum originates from people praising the unattainable. They don't even have the game. I wouldn't be at all surprised at the people praising the games are either self-justifying or bandwagoning something they don't have, not unlike Ketsui itself

you can't form an opinion unless you own it, and yet here you are talking about pink sweets not being fun after you played your friend's board. and i listed all 35+ people who voted for ketsui in 2009's top 25 poll and asked you which people on that list didn't own the game or had never played it. never got a proper reply from you on that one. and the game got a higher rating in 2010 than it did in 2009 without any "bandwagoning". presumably because .. i dunno .. it's a good game and more people got exposed to it after the console release..

i think blah blah blah, i wouldn't be surprised if blah blah blah ..... brilliant

[Elixir]

you can't form an opinion unless you own it, and yet here you are talking about pink sweets not being fun after you played your friend's board.

All those people playing Pink Sweets at an arcade, and all those people who hire, borrow, pirate, and buy used games aren't allowed opinions of their experiences with them.

and the game got a higher rating in 2010 than it did in 2009 without any "bandwagoning". presumably because .. i dunno .. it's a good game and more people got exposed to it after the console release..

How do you explain the sudden interest in Ketsui a year before the console release? The year of which the Ketsui PCB was worth the highest amount, even in a recession, while the 360 port was continually being delayed? Of course the game gets more exposure this year due to the console release, but it wasn't more than the exposure it received last year without one.

i think blah blah blah, i wouldn't be surprised if blah blah blah ..... brilliant

Sorry, I did this because Dave.K pointed out that my views were coming across as abrasive. "I think" and "I wouldn't be surprised" are just sentence fillers which soften the point across. Of course it's all in my opinion, that should be implied.

Ironically you don't want my opinions stated as fact either, despite this complaint. You seem to think you know the game better than anyone else here, and anyone who dislikes the game is wrong.

[Elixir]

there are less than 10 people on this forum whose opinion is worth listening to when it comes to pink sweets and you aren't one of them

And those "less than 10 people" would all be praising your precious game, yes.

No constructive criticism or dislike whatsoever, in a fantasy world where only sunshine and rainbows exist. This game is great! You don't own it because you can't afford it and don't wish to outlay hundreds of dollars for the PCB, and even if you play it at the arcades, your opinion doesn't matter because you don't own it. Right?

regarding ketsui: the interest is not at all sudden, it's always been there & steadily growing. the only thing different about 2009 is people who normally wouldn't have cared about the top 25 poll decided to participate.

Yeah, they all just happened to participate, by chance, in 2009's poll.

Multiple people decided to acquire a difficult to find (at the time) PCB for $900-1000 within a recession, all of which happened to think it's the #1 shmup of all time, all of which just happened to, by chance, vote in 2009's poll.

Isn't it tiring to confront sarcasm all the time? All right, take a look at your signature.

pink sweets over-hyped.... you obviously don't know what you're talking about

Then tell me, why is it the least popular Cave game within the last decade in Japan, yet one of the most desired outside of Japan? It wouldn't happen to relate to my theory of self-justifying at all, would it? It wouldn't happen to be unpopular in Japan because of a fundamentally broken scoring system, would it?

[jpj]

the fuck you on about?

you're the one talking about people owning the game or not, i was just quoting you when you tell people they aren't entitled to an opinion on ketsui unless they physically owned the board, and yet here you are in the thread giving your opinion on pink sweets when you never actually owned it. ie you talk a lot of shit

stop posting with this leading question style. "these 10 people would all be praising your precious game, yes?" i don't if you're just fucking stupid, or you're not reading my posts before you hit reply, or whatever it is, but you don't seem to get that i only like score attack mode and find the rest of the game flawed in one way or another. whether the 10 people or so like the game or not is not even what i'm talking about, i'm sure their opinions would be mixed anyway. there are only about 10 people who have played the game enough to make a properly informed opinion on it. i see people on here ask about it and dave K tell them it's one of the most brutally difficult and unfair shmups you'd ever play, and people skeptically replying with "really? is that really true when blah blah blah..". why ask someone who knows what they're talking about if you're not gonna listen to what they're telling you

you're an idiot man. not everyone who voted for it voted it as their #1 choice. not everyone who voted for it paid $900-1000. not everyone who voted for it bought it in 2009 (i bought mine in 2006). not everyone who voted for it owned ketsui at the time of voting either, the game had been out for many years previous to a poll in 2009.. i don't currently own an r-type pcb, would that mean i don't know whether i liked it or not when i did? and the game was also installed in a london arcade and i know multiple people who played it after swapping pcbs rather than purchasing. the game also rated highly on french, italian, swedish, and german shmup forums of which i'm not a member.

pink sweets is not one of the most desired games outside of japan. the pcb was of a similar price to futari, ketsui, muchi pork, deathsmiles, and many other titles and much less people bought it. if you were correct then the 360 version being sold as a double-pack with mmp should far outsell their other console ports as well as the non-cave shmup ports, which it wont

"It wouldn't happen to be unpopular in Japan because of a fundamentally broken scoring system, would it?"

i already said this many times, including the 5th post in this very thread

[Elixir]

you're an idiot man. not everyone who voted for it voted it as their #1 choice. not everyone who voted for it paid $900-1000. not everyone who voted for it bought it in 2009 (i bought mine in 2006). not everyone who voted for it owned ketsui at the time of voting either, the game had been out for many years previous to a poll in 2009.. i don't currently own an r-type pcb, would that mean i don't know whether i liked it or not when i did? and the game was also installed in a london arcade and i know multiple people who played it after swapping pcbs rather than purchasing. the game also rated highly on french, italian, swedish, and german shmup forums of which i'm not a member.

All of this would make sense if it hadn't been for the Ketsui bandwagoning, Ketsui Defense Force, and the fact that the game has never been rated as high within the timespan of seven years between 2009 and the original release. Try taking into account that I've played PS yet the majority of people voting for Ketsui hadn't even played the game. "My opinion" doesn't involve voting the game as the best game of all time in some contest.

In any case, my opinion may or may not change depending on the upcoming 360 release, like I said.

pink sweets is not one of the most desired games outside of japan. the pcb was of a similar price to futari, ketsui, muchi pork, deathsmiles, and many other titles and much less people bought it. if you were correct then the 360 version being sold as a double-pack with mmp should far outsell their other console ports as well as the non-cave shmup ports, which it wont

It won't because the 360 version is being marketed domestically to Japan only, and as neither games are popular in Japan--it won't sell well. International sales are not accounted for nor will many people be willing to import a region-locked title. Games like Galuda 2 and Futari have the advantage of being regionless, so this isn't even a fair comparison.

[jpj]

which 19+ people from this list had never played ketsui:

jpj
jonny5
chi_ryu
dave_k
jockel
JAPJAC
aventus
Koma
gunbird18
drboom
yosai
markedkiller78
charliechong
emphatic
RGC
SFKhoa
PROMETHEUS
CRI
malik11
skykid
rtw
icarus
szycag
powerfuran
gwyrgyn blood
PsikyoPshmupPlayerP
lowemark
sven666
sonic r
innerpattern
stuminator
animaitor
msm
lynchesque
CIT
grinning cat
neist

[emphatic]

which 19+ people from this list had never played ketsui:

jpj
jonny5
chi_ryu
dave_k
jockel
JAPJAC
aventus
Koma
gunbird18
drboom
yosai
markedkiller78
charliechong
emphatic
RGC
SFKhoa
PROMETHEUS
CRI
malik11
skykid
rtw
icarus
szycag
powerfuran
gwyrgyn blood
PsikyoPshmupPlayerP
lowemark
sven666
sonic r
innerpattern
stuminator
animaitor
msm
lynchesque
CIT
grinning cat
neist

Well, JAPJAC obviously.

[jonny5]

which 19+ people from this list had never played ketsui:

jpj
jonny5
chi_ryu
dave_k
jockel
JAPJAC
aventus
Koma
gunbird18
drboom
yosai
markedkiller78
charliechong
emphatic
RGC
SFKhoa
PROMETHEUS
CRI
malik11
skykid
rtw
icarus
szycag
powerfuran
gwyrgyn blood
PsikyoPshmupPlayerP
lowemark
sven666
sonic r
innerpattern
stuminator
animaitor
msm
lynchesque
CIT
grinning cat
neist

BAM!! And so ends another Elixir beat down!

Everybody on that list either owned the game, lived in japan and had access to it in arcades, or lived in proximity to someone who owned it and played it there.

Glad to see you back around jpj!

Haven't played Pink Sweets myself, but man, that soundtrack! So awesome! Very poppy!

[Elixir]

which 19+ people from this list had never played ketsui:

jpj
jonny5
chi_ryu
dave_k
jockel
JAPJAC
aventus
Koma
gunbird18
drboom
yosai
markedkiller78
charliechong
emphatic
RGC
SFKhoa
PROMETHEUS
CRI
malik11
skykid
rtw
icarus
szycag
powerfuran
gwyrgyn blood
PsikyoPshmupPlayerP
lowemark
sven666
sonic r
innerpattern
stuminator
animaitor
msm
lynchesque
CIT
grinning cat
neist

Conveniently stopping at 19, despite claiming:

i listed all 35+ people who voted for ketsui in 2009's top 25 poll

So if your biased list composed only to your own advantage can be trusted, 16 or more people are still up for debate?

Perhaps you're forgetting this thread?

Apr 14, 2009 3:47 am:

i've owned ketsui for a few years, and maybe played forty or so credits on it

And yet today, you've managed to disclose that you've had the PCB since 2006, yet you "only had 40 credits on it" in early 2009. So, 40 credits before throwing out the "games are art" card, huh? Congratulations on putting more effort into promoting the game than actually playing it, you're making a Cave collector real proud.

Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:41 am:

The creation of you promoting the hell out of a game you know nothing of is created. This thread contains psychotic lengths of self-justifying. Not to mention bragging with the whole "my arcade board is now worth 150% above what I paid! haha!". I had actually forgotten that you were the one who originally caused the inaccuracy to begin with, I apologize.

Tue May 26, 2009 10:28 am:

Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2008)

Code: Select all

Game                                                     Score  2007 '06 '05 '04 '03 '02
01  Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT)                              6.42    +   +   +   *   +   +
02  Dodonpachi (ARC/SAT/PS1)                              6.01    +   -   -   -   -   -
03  Dodonpachi Daioujou / Black Label (ARC/PS2)           5.90    .   +   +   +   +   *
04  Ketsui Kizuna Jigoku Tachi (ARC)                      5.81    *   *   *   *   *   *

[*]* denotes the game was not on the list for the year indicated.

Yeah, they just happened to participate, right? Because apparently,

it's always been there & steadily growing. the only thing different about 2009 is people who normally wouldn't have cared about the top 25 poll decided to participate.

Ketsui just happens to be ranked 5th despite never even being in the running in previous years, and you're claiming it's because people just "suddenly decided to participate". No, the game was bandwagoned - by you - and shoved into position by astronomically unrealistic proportions. The game was rated higher in 2010 because the game was released for consoles, meaning more exposure and voters.

It really is that simple.

In any case, I'm entitled to an opinion of Pink Sweets from what I've played, which seems to be a lost concept completely beyond you. I don't know why, but I've said--MULTIPLE TIMES--that my opinion may change pending the 360 port.

[jpj]

the list is 37 people. as there are only two options (have played / have not played) you need 19 or over to be a majority

which 19+ people...?

[ncp]

Well it's good to see Elixir can't even post an opinion any more without the Elixir Attack Force being deployed. rofl

But seriously, this thread has turned retarded.

[Herr Schatten]

this thread has turned retarded.

I couldn't agree more.

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