NEC XM29, missing that CRT look, or is my memory corrupted?

[kamiboy]

I went to a B+O store the other day. No TV's from that brand were in store. I remember years ago going into the same store and seeing some lifestyle designed TV's that were really weird. I think one had curtains on it and another had a remote that could tilt its direction. Swedish are not normal people lol.

B&O is actually a Danish brand. And their products are designed to be every bit as much a piece of posh artwork for the home as they are meant to be functional products. And they come at a very, very steep price. B&O products, even things as obsolete as CRT televisions, retain good resale value even today.

The PVM's as I stated before are older and if bought from the wrong place will cost significantly for what is a load of landfill.

Well, buying used display technology blind is nothing if it is not a bold risk, innit? But for 300, I am not that perturbed, if I were so inclined then the ad for the 1980's antique SONY profeel is still up for about 50. I reckon It could easily be mine for 150 shipped, but I am very reluctant to buy something of that size ever again.

Make sure when you buy a PVM you get one from a fellow shmupper that can testify to its performance.

Maybe I'll sell my XRGB-2+ and use the money to buy a 19" PVM, there are a few up for sale, but I doubt I can find anyone reputable to sell me one in Canada. But I am a affraid that the PVM's being very high end professional displays with very high TV resolution ratings might once again lack the natural lowfi CRT picture that I am used to. I wish I knew someone nearby who had one.

Surely a 240/480 LCD isn't that hard to make with scanlines built in?

I imagine it would be the easiest thing for a TV software engineer to add in as an option, problem is that there is no demand for it among the general populace which make up their target demographic, so it is not a priority, or perhaps there is not even anyone there aware of the existence of the desire among select groups.

I guess a organized write in to SONY, Samsung and other flatpanel luminaries might at least make them aware of the desire. Failing in that I wonder why, with TV's these days being essentially computers with displays built in, that no effort has been put into jailbreaking one, if you will, so as to open one up for homebrew firmware modules, such as one enabling scanlines for 240p content.

When I put up an emulator with scanlines on my LCD, next to my XM29 running the same game on actual hardware I hardly see any difference there. If this harshly sharp look with clearly defined lines is what people desire then any modern flatpanel will give you via emulation, or a on actual hardware via RGB enabled scanline generator. Of course then there is lag, but that is only an issue for a subset of games, really.

[neorichieb1971]

Are you surprised the XM performed the way it did? I heard nothing but praise for it until you came along.

I would assume emulation and XM performance would be similar. But that testifies the monitors performance. Your getting emulation grade presentation from something native, with the ability to use all your controllers at the same time. I thought that wasn't far off what people would call the divine goal.

A PVM is usually regarded as the RGB persons choice since RGB wasn't a standard in the Americas/Canada. If your happy to use component/svideo/composite a standard TV of this decade is much more affordable. You could get a philips/sony/panasonic locally for $50 probably.

[kamiboy]

I think Fudoh nailed it with his comments in another thread. Apparently multisync monitors, such as the XM, display 15khz content differently from pure 15khz only displays that I am used to. Fudoh said that this is a common enough topic among arcade display owners.

Mate, until 2 years ago I used to live in Europe where RGB was not some ethereal thing, I dealt with finding which SCART input of a CRT TV was the one supporting RGB all of the time. My memory certainly tells me that playing games, even through RGB SCART, and even on large 29" sets, looked nothing like this.

I certainly am surprised that the XM performed the way that it did, getting emulation grade visuals was never, ever my goal. I think emulated games look horrible, harsh and artificial, nothing like games used to look on my CRT displays of choice. Even with fake scanlines and blur filters the games cannot hold a candle to how I remember CRT's rendered them. If, however, my memory serves me wrong and this indeed is the best I can hope for then owning a CRT is rather pointless in my case, because the XRGB can already get me this precise image on my LCD.

I already decided I am going to try again, this time with a SONY PVM 2530. I already have a buyer, and it is going to cost the around the same that I paid for the XM. Once I get the money together I'll have a definite conclusion to my quest for that certain CRT feel that I remember.

My only point of doubt is that perhaps these professional monitors have too, crisp, or razor sharp an image for my purpose. But I cannot know until I try. If I find a PVM 1944/1955Q for the same price I'd definitely go with that instead, as I think a smaller sized display will work better for 240p.

EDIT:
Fudoh also mentioned the fact that the XM uses shadow mask whereas the CRT's that I am used to are aperture grill displays, and I think this plays a part as well. Just a few minutes ago I turned on a plain old 25" sharp CRT TV here at work just to check, and indeed there is the CRT look that I want. When putting on a TV image you cannot discern any individual picture points, it all just blends in together, but it is nothing like applying blur to an image displayed on a LCD, it is different from that, more natural.

[Arasoi]

.

[kamiboy]

Bah, sounds like if NEC had opted for aperture grill on the XM then I'd have the perfect gaming display. I find if I turn contrast and brightness way down low on the XM then the picture becomes a lot more tolerable, but also significantly more dull. Anyway, dull is better than what I had before, so that is what I am using currently.

I see a number of PVM's supporting both component and RGB, but at sizes that are useable I've seen mostly PVM 1944Q/1955Q and a few named 20N1U or some such. I haven't found any above 20" with component ability except the 2950. Those 19"-20" component capable models meanwhile are rather expensive, I doubt I can land one of those for less than 500, so I am leaning towards a 2530, or 2030, whichever I can get cheapest.

Meanwhile I've found a few closeup shots of PVM 2530 and 2030's displaying various 240p games and while a picture never does the actual thing any justice, still I am sort of not entirely convinced that there is enough of a difference. Would you say that the PQ difference between XM and PVM are very noticeable or very subtle?

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

Thanks for your impressions, it certainly puts my mind more at ease. But as time goes, and I research these PVM monitors I seem to become convinced that since these were not just being used as studio monitors, but also for video editing and as endoscopy monitors then they were probably made with picture accuracy and delivery of high level of detail in mind.

Suffice to say those two things stand opposite my sentiments regarding how 240p sprite graphics should be handled by my CRT display of choice. Anywaste, if luck is on my side I may be able to borrow a smallish noname brand CRT TV to play around with this weekend, that experiment should put my mind more at ease.

And as for the LCD based CRT look solutions, well happens to be that was what got me started on this whole road. I have a XRGB-2+ myself, and although it is unusable for me because its signal does not negotiate well with my LCD TV, then, even if it were jitter free, I'd still call the result a far, far cry from what I seek.

[gray117]

Thanks for your impressions, it certainly puts my mind more at ease. But as time goes, and I research these PVM monitors I seem to become convinced that since these were not just being used as studio monitors, but also for video editing and as endoscopy monitors then they were probably made with picture accuracy and delivery of high level of detail in mind.

It depends - the 8-14 inch type ones really can't help but be relatively sharp looking - they're so fing small!

In all pvms they were more widely used due to universal compatibility, reliability, durability and color accuracy rather than strict picture sharpness - we always had computer monitors for that ...

I had a 2950 [non vga one 2950q(?) I forget; think there's a q and a qm] ... the pixels had definite spacing and glow. The curve on the screen was nice too [I play on a flat 29" consumer trinitron now ... at first it felt nice, but I miss that slight curve now...saying that I have another 25" curve one too ]

.... You may want to check this out with a bit of research, but - I believe how trinitrons work they are not technically the best for convergence accuracy; so would probably be a touch more 'crt natural' than some other studio monitors [low dpi ones anyway - bvms tend to look sharp; but I've only seen these 20" biggest...]

My only reservation at recommending a pvm is [shipping] cost/availability ... but then I am a spoilt uk person who has cheap scart tvs all over the place...

[kamiboy]

Yeah, yer a lucky basterd. If I still lived in Europe I'd just jump on the local auction site and purchase one of the myriad used B&O TV's that I see there for sale. They sport RGB SCART and most of the models are aesthetically very well designed so instead of having to find a place to hide them out of view they would naturally complement the decor of your living room wherever they should come to rest inside it.

For here though, a beaten up mid 90's 20-25" PVM will run me around 300 shipped to my door. Not bad, all things considered, certainly impossible to do for any cheaper where I live.

[kamiboy]

Okay, so I have located a deal on a SONY PVM 2530 which I am ready to finish. But before I take the risk I decided to take the camera and take a few pictures on my XM29 to try illustrate what it is about the picture that I do not like. I think the most offensive part is the very strong, thick and prominent scanlines. I think I am more used to a picture where the scanlines are a lot more ambiguous, blending in with the natural flow of the graphics instead of acting as such a contrasted partition between each line of graphic. Most of the harshness that I perceive is the result of the scanlines. This combined by with the incredible clarity and sharpness of the picture makes for something that I am not used to.

The pictures do not do a very well job of conveying hat exactly it is that I actually see when I play a game except for the left portion of the first picture that is. Sharpness and colour did not come out at all like they display in person, but the thickness and prominence of the scanlines are quite accurate in some of the pictures.

I understand that most people that frequent these forums view what I display here as ideal, but one covets what the nostalgic eye of youth is used to, and that is certainly not what I get here. I want a softer, more natural picture with much more subtle scanlines. Can anyone here owning the 2030 or 2530 throw on one or two of these games and care to comment on how what they see on their display compares I'd appreciate it a lot. If they could be bothered to post some closeup snaps then they I would appreciate all the much more.

My camera's flash went off in this one, but as a side effect, out of the dozens of pictures I've taken, this is the picture that comes closest to what I actually see on the screen. Especially accurate to life is the area with the R ship and planet in the background, not so much in the other corner where some blur has been introduced:


A closeup of the picture above which shows details much better. The picture is very close to what I see on the screen. The scanlines are thicker, but their prominence is displayed well. Though the the graphics look sharper in real life their harshness shows up well, especially in the area around the outline of the planet:


Super R-Type. This game is the one that looks almost tolerable because its colour motif mostly features white on black:


Closeup on Secret of Mana. Secret of mana, and other colourful RPG, or action RPG games I find come out as the ugliest on the XM. I especially dislike the way that the tree looks, very harsh, sharp and with the thick scanlines, this is not what I want low res pixel graphics to look like:


Closeup of Super Metroid. Dark games with a space motif come off as more tolerable, but with Super Metroid each screen is different. The sprite of Samus herself I find comes off looking very rough and ugly:


Super Metroid again:


Super Metroid once more:

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

Thanks Arasoi, you've been most helpful, I do believe that look is exactly what I am seeking, very much in keeping with what I call, the CRT feel.

The seller that I've found actually has a twosome of 2530's for sale, both from with a December 1991 production date. I would normally be dismayed by such an ancient date of produce, but the story he provided to soften the blow, if factually truthful, certainly makes them out to be the ideal purchase, at least what older PVM models are concerned.

Almost makes me want to get both, one serving as backup, but cost would be prohibitive, hope to have the one within a fortnight, I'll post my final impressions then. Only point of contention with the 2530's is the unorthodox RGB input, I have already found the right cable for the job, but sure is expensive. If anyone has any alternative places I can procure a suitable 25 pin to 15 pin, or a 25 pin to BNC cable then I would appreciate a link. I have no plans of making ones myself though, so leave alone those suggestions, I already know of plenty resources detailing that operation for any hopeful.

[Arasoi]

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[kamiboy]

15-20 shipped to my door would be ideal for such a cable. As to where I found the more expensive one, where else, eBay.

[kamiboy]

Nevermind about the cable, 2/3rd of the price was shipping alone which I was able to negotiate down, so I bought it.

[kamiboy]

FWIW:

Taken from my 2530, in RGB.

I've been doing some side by side comparisons with my Xm20's version of the Samus frontal shot and I find it fascinating how large a disparity there is between how different CRT displays treat the same 240p content.

In your shot scanlines are hardly even there at all, in fact in places there seems to be virtually no spacing between each line of graphic. If I was shown this shot without being told the source I would have guessed it came from an LCD.

Over the weekend I got to test my SNES on an cheap old citizen CRT, of about 20" size. It was a shoddy little thing, with the only input outside of RFU being a single composite with monoural audio built into the front. I hooked up the SNES and was immediately surprised by several things. Firstly, the set's interpretation of composite was pretty terrible. Secondly, this set, not unlike the depiction of your 2530, had no scanlines whatsoever, none at all. Every line of graphic was packed on top of one another without any spacing between.

Basically it looked not unlike how an LCD would render the image. I thought to myself that this is rather strange, how does a analoug CRT do this, this is almost like it is linedoubling the 240p image. Then I started to think that perhaps all aperture mask displays don't do very visible scanlines and that is why I didn't like the image of my XM29, because it certainly had very obviously marked of the sorts. But then I got close to that screen and noticed that this was in fact a shadow mask CRT TV.

When I got interested in revisiting the old classics, in a way that does their visuals any justice, I started hearing about 240p and scanlines for the first time. And though I never noticed such things back in the day I simply just took their permanent presence as face value. But is seems to me that their visible presence largely depended on your display of choice back in the day. I doubt I ever had any display that showed them off very clearly, if at all, so I find the XM29's image to be displeasing.

Other's who had displays in the other end of the spectrum likely would have nothing but what I dislike.

[kebrank]

I think the size of the monitor is what really matters when it comes to that old look besides the trisync, multisync Vs 15hz only. I mean, if you are using a 29" monitor with a SNES evidently graphics are going to look rough. I personally prefer 20" monitors for old consoles and arcade PCBs. A 29" monitor with a Double Dragon PCB never is going to look good compared with a 20/21" monitor displaying the same image. BTW, what cable did you get at the end? a 4 BNC to 25pin RGB to cable/adapter?. \o/.k.

[kamiboy]

The size factor is a different thing though. No matter what you display it will look better the smaller the screen it is displayed on. I am sure if my XM was 20 inch I wouldn't think of getting anything else. But the comparison shot above is actually from a 25" set and there the size difference is more subtle, and then the inherent differences of panel technology come into play.

As for the cable, this is the one I got, I've seen some 2530 and 2030's being sold with these Extron 4 BNC to 25 pin to cables connected to them, so I think they will do the job just fine:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... _500wt_665

[RGB32E]

Hmm... so it's primarily the thinner scanlines on the NEC that you do not like? Scanlines on 240p content when displayed on a Sony tube are more defined than a conventional shadow mask tube. So, the main three things you don't care for with the XM are the scanline spacing of a multisync, shadow mask pattern, and smaller pixel pitch???

Wow... I didn't realize that Extron made DB25F to 4 BNCF breakout cables!!! Not too surprising, just interesting to know they exist. Were you wanting to connect the PVM to a BNC type RGB switcher??? Just remember, the more cables and adapters you use, the more noise you introduce. For my PVM-2030 I made a 6 foot DB25F to 4 BNCM cable. It's handy if I need to connect an Extron device with RGB output on BNC cables (without having to use an extra set of BNCM-BNCM cables)! Otherwise, I just use direct cables to the monitor (I primarily use the XRGB-3 on my HDTV nowadays).

"Samus frontal" shot on my PVM-2030:



Here's the XBR8/XRGB3 combo (B0 @ 1080):

[kamiboy]

Scanlines are more defined on a SONY tube? That is certainly not the impression that I get from all the shots I've seen. The XM has clearly defined scanlines, but the PVM's seem to not display scanlines prominently at all, but that might be an artifact of digital cameras, I'll know better once I have both in the same room.

But yeah, I believe my dislike of the XM's picture quality can be broken down to prominent scanlines, use of shadow masks and pixel pitch, but at the end of the day I just don't like the look.

As to what I want to use those Extron 25 pin d-sub to BNC cables for, well, that is a bit complicated. A direct connection would be ideal, but outside of custom made ghetto cables that is quite impossible, and I am opposed to the custom creations route. It irks me to have to use something I threw together myself when there are official products I can use, that is just a personal quirk of mine.

This is where the XSELECt-D4 comes in, it accepts all of my first party RGB21 and D-terminal cables and can transcode RGB/Component back and forth as I please. The XM and 2530 would want to tap into the RGB output of the XSELECT, which is via a 15 bin d-sub port. I happen to have bought a good quality 15 pin d-sub to BNC cable a while back. So all my RGB consoles would be routed into the XSELECT, then through the 15 pin to BNC cable, which is then plugged into the Extron BNC to 25 pin and that is plugged into 2530. For the XM I'll forgo the last part and plug the BNC ends directly into the device. Ideally I would want to use a 15 pin BNC to 25 pin BNC cable for the job, but I have not found any in existence.

For S-video and composite I'll just go the direct route. For consoles with both S-video and RGB capability I'll try both and go with whatever ends up looking best to my eyes. And for RGB only consoles, like my SEGA CDX, I'll have no choice but to go RGB , but I am sure that noise wont be too big of an issue, even though the cable lengths, when calculated end to end, will likely be in the area of several meters measured from console to display.

Looks like my XSELECT is scheduled to arrive tomorrow or the day after, and I'll likely have the 2530 within two weeks. While I wait for the 2530 I am very curious to test how progressive scan PS2 and Gamecube games look on the XM. If I don't like their look then I'll just see about getting rid of it altogether.

Meanwhile I have to think about what to do for audio, these displays will end up in the spare room eventually, and there I do not have the benifit of my AMP. I'll need to find some cheap way to route the audio out of all my consoles to my headphones. I would need a headphone amp for that purpose, right?

[RGB32E]

Scanlines are more defined on a SONY tube? That is certainly not the impression that I get from all the shots I've seen. The XM has clearly defined scanlines, but the PVM's seem to not display scanlines prominently at all, but that might be an artifact of digital cameras, I'll know better once I have both in the same room.

The scanlines (not the dark space, but the actual line the electron gun "scans") are thicker on the PVM, and thinner on the XM.

But yeah, I believe my dislike of the XM's picture quality can be broken down to prominent scanlines, use of shadow masks and pixel pitch, but at the end of the day I just don't like the look.

Better to have an idea of what to look for than.... not???

As to what I want to use those Extron 25 pin d-sub to BNC cables for, well, that is a bit complicated. A direct connection would be ideal, but outside of custom made ghetto cables that is quite impossible, and I am opposed to the custom creations route. It irks me to have to use something I threw together myself when there are official products I can use, that is just a personal quirk of mine.

That makes sense... I suppose you're not very confident in your abilities to build cables??? The official cables are not always ideal... the official Saturn RGB cables are poorer quality (image wise) than the cables I've built, and some systems don't have official cables either. The official SNES and PS RGB cables are a bit longer than need be... I own them, but still use cables I've built over them (I have the official cable stock for PS RGB cables) - not to say that there is anything wrong with the official PS and SNES RGB cables.

This is where the XSELECt-D4 comes in, it accepts all of my first party RGB21 and D-terminal cables and can transcode RGB/Component back and forth as I please. The XM and 2530 would want to tap into the RGB output of the XSELECT, which is via a 15 bin d-sub port. I happen to have bought a good quality 15 pin d-sub to BNC cable a while back. So all my RGB consoles would be routed into the XSELECT, then through the 15 pin to BNC cable, which is then plugged into the Extron BNC to 25 pin and that is plugged into 2530. For the XM I'll forgo the last part and plug the BNC ends directly into the device.

I'd like to get a hold of a XSelect as well... though I think it degrades the signal (vs. short direct connection). How much, I cannot say without testing it. FYI. The Kramer FC-14 is the defacto RGB->Component converter, but is not a switcher.

For S-video and composite I'll just go the direct route. For consoles with both S-video and RGB capability I'll try both and go with whatever ends up looking best to my eyes. And for RGB only consoles, like my SEGA CDX, I'll have no choice but to go RGB , but I am sure that noise wont be too big of an issue, even though the cable lengths, when calculated end to end, will likely be in the area of several meters measured from console to display.

Good luck finding an official cable to use with a 9MDIN Sega system!!!

Looks like my XSELECT is scheduled to arrive tomorrow or the day after, and I'll likely have the 2530 within two weeks. While I wait for the 2530 I am very curious to test how progressive scan PS2 and Gamecube games look on the XM. If I don't like their look then I'll just see about getting rid of it altogether.

480p on the XM should look like VGA on a 27" tube!!! You could run some older (comparable) PC games at 640x480 to get an idea.

Meanwhile I have to think about what to do for audio, these displays will end up in the spare room eventually, and there I do not have the benifit of my AMP. I'll need to find some cheap way to route the audio out of all my consoles to my headphones. I would need a headphone amp for that purpose, right?

Dedicated/standalone headphone amps are likely too expensive for your needs:
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/se ... &srchAttr=

[kamiboy]

The scanlines (not the dark space, but the actual line the electron gun "scans") are thicker on the PVM, and thinner on the XM.

Ah, exactly, I got my terminology wrong. When most people talk about scanlines they usually refer to just the black spaces, so I've come to associate the term with them, even though it is technically the opposite.

That makes sense... I suppose you're not very confident in your abilities to build cables???

I have myriad of reasons, I'll not bore you. It is true that official cables does not always equate quality, but they serve my purpose quite tolerably I find.

Good luck finding an official cable to use with a 9MDIN Sega system!!!

Yeah, the CDX is only system of mine that I do not have any official cables for. If it were a Mega Drive I then I could use the official Neo Geo leads, alas, I went for looks, compactness and cool factor when choosing my default 16bit SEGA system.

480p on the XM should look like VGA on a 27" tube!!! You could run some older (comparable) PC games at 640x480 to get an idea.

I am a Mac person, and Apple has not shipped their products with VGA out, or even VGA converter leads for several years, so except for my XRGB2+ and Dreamcast I do not have a single VGA capable device in the house. And since my Dreamcast is NIB, I sort dont want to open it, just for a test, I'll wait till the XSELECT arrives, any day now.

Dedicated/standalone headphone amps are likely too expensive for your needs::)

20-50 range is what I find I will have to pay in the end. Meanwhile eBay's got these funky radio tube based one's going for similar prices. They look intriguing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Valve-Class-Tube-He ... 5835wt_881

[kamiboy]

Looking at the pictures of the 2530 pictures once more, and keeping in mind that low pedigree citizen CRT which I tested. I don't think this is a simple matter of scanlines being thicker on SONY monitors, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that this is somewhat more calculated than that?

It seems to me that the thickness of scanlines for 240p content is exactly double the thickness of a 480i scanline. The lines of graphic seem tightly packed ontop of one another, seems to me there is some sort of line doubling in play here. I think these devices recognize 240p input and either adjust the electron beam to fire for two rows at at once and do some other sort of primitive line doubling.

I am not sure which is more correct, technically, the XM way or the PVM way, or if there even are any standards for how to display 240p. But the end result sure is different.

[gray117]

Some tvs/monitors may well double scan/480i force 240p content... this may well simplify their operation and could be seen as a beneficial feature for the consumer tv watcher.

Scanlines are far less calculated... the screen is mearly that - a screen with dots onto which a picture is beamed + focused - it should be thought of more as a projector if anything...

The number of scanlines and density of pixels could be said to depend upon the physical setup of the tv/monitor as well as source material.

Scanlines are the same thickness as lit dots [because they are unlit dots]. The dot pitch is the spacing between the dots.

Nearly every sony monitor/tv I've had can 'thin down' scanlines by increasing picture contrast/color/brightness at which point the bloom of a pixel nearly hides the scanline, whilst still preserving decent color accuracy. And conversely can be adjusted so that scanlines appear near enough just as fat as lit lines...

Particularly with low res monitors its the dot pitch that will clearly vary visibly with the size of the screen.

[kamiboy]

A parcel arrive for me today bearing the gift of XSELECT-D4. And yesterday I happened to receive my long overdue BNC to RCA adapters as well. So with RGB and composite opened up to me I got to finally put the XM29 through its paces.

After testing just about every old school console I own, save for the Dreamcast I am somewhat baffled. It seems that I like the look of everything I throw on the XM29 with the only exception being the SNES. This puts a damper on my enthusiasm for the PVM2530 purchase, as the SNES essentially will now become its only raison d'être. The thick space between scanlines works out fine for NES games, through to Genesis Games and all the way up to 2D Saturn games, while at the same time make any SNES game look wretched.

Mind you this is independent of input method, the NES looks nice enough through composite, and the Saturn works as well through S-video as it does through RGB. The SNES is just as intolerable through S-video as it is through composite. Nothing wrong the picture either, I just don't like the way it all works out with the clearly marked spaces between scanlines.

Well, for any other console, save perhaps for the PSX/PS2 I'd bite down and live with it rather than end up with two space taking CRT back breakers, alas the flawless legacy of the SNES more than justifies the trouble. And who knows, perhaps all my other games will turn out to look even better on the 2530.

That said I very much doubt even the PVM 2530 can trump the look of Wind Waker in progressive scan on the XM29, that game, no jesting, rivals any HD game I own, it looks that incredibly good. Hell it looks better than most anything Nintendo themselves have done since.

[kamiboy]

Well what do you know, no sooner have I got the 2530 seller all ready to go and I feel the in creep of doubt. After discovering that the XM29 works great with everything except the SNES for some reason I am starting to question the sanity of getting another set. It does not help of course that the 2530, according to the manual, despite being 4" smaller has almost the exact same dimensional bulk and weight.

300 is not a lot of money, but it could get me that Turbo Duo I've been wanting for a while. I fear to get the PVM and then upon doing a side by side find that it doesn't give me the look I am seeking either and I am stuck with a very big paper weight when I could be playing Lords of Thunder instead.

[brandonp514]

Well what do you know, no sooner have I got the 2530 seller all ready to go and I feel the in creep of doubt. After discovering that the XM29 works great with everything except the SNES for some reason I am starting to question the sanity of getting another set. It does not help of course that the 2530, according to the manual, despite being 4" smaller has almost the exact same dimensional bulk and weight.

300 is not a lot of money, but it could get me that Turbo Duo I've been wanting for a while. I fear to get the PVM and then upon doing a side by side find that it doesn't give me the look I am seeking either and I am stuck with a very big paper weight when I could be playing Lords of Thunder instead.

300 bucks is not a lot of money? Heh, well if I wasn't married I would totally be able to dump that money without hesitation for classic games. However, my wife sees things differently lol. But SNES is probably the main reason I would even want one of those monitors. BTW, I played it on a 2950q and it looks really great. Not very well defined scanlines like you are seeing are your XM29.

BTW, how I got the PVM, interesting story. On craigslist this guy was advertising the 2530 for 50 bucks and said he had 20+ of these sets. So of course I went to check it out and he had like 30 sets in his backyard all stacked on top of eachother, obviously treated terribly with tarp covering them. It was a real travesty I tell ya....

He actually had a 2950q to show me and let me try my games on. I also saw some 2530's there as well. Sadly one of the guns wasn't working on the 2950q and the color was off. He seemed to be in a rush and wouldn't let me try some of the other sets out so I only got to try one more 2950q and it was the one I bought. Color was good, but the burn in was terrible from being used at an airport for flights. I still got it but was pretty unhappy about the burn in.

Geometry was the best I've seen but still not anywhere near perfect and it had convergence issues as well. Games on it were nice but obvious burn in ruined it for me. Sold it for 80 bucks a few days ago.

Now I'm using my plasma and playing PS1 games on my PS3 via 1080p is actually a wonderful experience. I'm bedazzled with it to be honest. Very happy. I'm hoping that LKV360 RGB scart to hdmi adapter will play my SNES games atleast close to as well.

[kamiboy]

Well I'll ever the sole master of my funds and games have ever been on the receiving end of the biggest portion.

Thirty some PVM's rotting away in someones backyard, eh? He must have gotten them all for a song or perhaps rerouted them from going to a dump for free. Likely an Airport was upgrading its displays and needed to be rid of all the old ones in bulk. My seller is dragging his feet getting it sent off and I've already been tempted a few times to call the whole thing off. I notticed that after a few hours of playtime my eyes get used to the picture of SNES on the XM29 in that strange way that my eyes get used to any graphic quality after extended viewing.

If he hasnt sent it off today I am calling it off. I think I can live with how SNES games look especially if after a few hours it does not matter what they are running on and the PVM is too bulky and heavy for a mere 25" set, Which I had norticed earlier.

[brandonp514]

You're right. The airport was ditching them for LCDs. Thing is they are all burned in with txt like "AEROLINEA" and "CONTINENTAL". It's really not even worth 60 bucks when they're in that sorry state. It's really sad because there are many of us that would have loved to save such a set from displaying the same pathetic characters all its life. Seems to me to be a waste of an expensive monitor......I could only imagine how badly a plasma would be burned in displaying the same thing. They get burned in even quicker than CRT.

[kamiboy]

I've seen a few Plasma's being used in a similar setting, it wasn't pretty. As to why they would waste top end PVM's in such pedestrian settings I suppose such heavy duty displays are a better fit because it takes a lot more for them to develop problems, or burn-in. Those PVM's had likely been in service in that airport for more than a decade pretty much 24/7.

In contrast the 2530 I was looking at, despite having a manufacturers date of Dec 91, allegedly had only seen light use over the course of a decade, after which it just lay dormant. Anywaste, I guess I'll never know how much better SNES games would look on it. When I told the seller I wanted it ASAP 2 weeks ago I couldn't wait to get my hands on it, but in the meantime I sort of regret not passing on it. He was supposed to send it off today, but he has not given me any word, so I guess this means he once again failed to, I'll give him the bad news tomorrow. I better start loving those prominent scanlines of the XM29, that is all I'll see going forward.