North Korea done goofed, inb4 nuclear WW III

[Jockel]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiap ... index.html
How big is the potential danger of this conflict further escalating into something far bigger?
Discuss.

[evil_ash_xero]

Senseless loss of life. Like when they torpedoed the S. Korean ship.

I think everyone will try very hard not to have war, but if they get too crazy and try to push into S. Korea, they'll be kicked out promptly.

Hopefully they get better at talking to others first.

[Lance Boyle]

Two people die and we're speculating about World War III?

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Who incharge of the country, is it still the crazy old man or has the son taken over yet? Hopefully the son isnt a crazy power monger like his dad is.

With everything still been crazy in the middle east, the last thing anyone wants is a war in Korea

BTW whos arming N Korea? China?

[Phoenix]

WWIII over north corea will never happen.

They are completaly alone when they attack south corea. No China and Russia anymore to help.

Propbly usa, france and the uk will make an end to the north corean misery once and for all if n-c attacks the south.

its about time those north corea leaders leaving earth. Their own people have a miserable life. They need to be free more then iraq 10 years ago.

[Jockel]

Obviously, the WW III thing wasn't meant seriously.
I'm mostly worried about North Koreas "oh what the fuck do we care about anything the rest of the world does" attitude.

[Nico87]

Meh, nothing will happen. Seoul is within artillery distance from North Korea, so South Korea can't really do anything. A Korean war won't happend without USA and China on either side, and USA and China share so many economical interests, I just can't see it happening.

Thing is that South Korea keep violating the Yellow Sea "border" that neither SK or NK can really decide the location of. Both sides disagree on what's South Korea and what's North Korea, so NK gets provocated whenever a SK seacraft crosses their view of the "border".

South Korea and USA having joint millitary practices and what not certainly doesn't help.

In any case, if North Korea is alone, they know that if they go warrin' South Korea, USA will intervene, and then China will join up with North Korea.

What's interesting is that India has sent nearly 40 000 soldiers to their border with China. Slightly unrelated, but it may be a pre-caution in case China does anything.

[neorichieb1971]

Korea is surrounded by sea. Why do S.Korea have to fire their shit in the direction of the DRPK or whatever its called? I think they have every right not to tollerate any activity in that area.

[Zeron]

Two people die and we're speculating about World War III?

I guess WW1 started by a mass execution.

[evil_ash_xero]

Two people die and we're speculating about World War III?

I guess WW1 started by a mass execution.

Well, that was a long time ago, and there's no way in hell something like the assassination of one man would start a WORLD war now. People are pretty sick of war at this point, and I think would try to avoid it. I know here in the U.S. people aren't ready to go to war with another country. Now, i'm sure they will in 20 years or so, but not now.

[Drum]

Two people die and we're speculating about World War III?

I guess WW1 started by a mass execution.

Well, that was a long time ago, and there's no way in hell something like the assassination of one man would start a WORLD war now. People are pretty sick of war at this point, and I think would try to avoid it. I know here in the U.S. people aren't ready to go to war with another country. Now, i'm sure they will in 20 years or so, but not now.

ahahahahaha :(

[Danza]

Human life is a miserable loss in any circumstance. I don't know. I don't like how "big" the world is in that sense. People die overseas and we worry about how it may effect us and our country. I'm guilty of it for sure, but it may be South Korea, North Korea, Iraq, China, Japan, where the fuck ever, every cockhead in this world (for the most part) is trying to do the best for their family and themselves and I personally hate how the "news" twists things to suit certain agendas and what not, when we are all in this shit hole together.

I know it is sappy and to be honest, I'm pretty drunk, but still. Uhhhhhhg.

[njiska]

First of all you can't call World War III until Germany invades France. That's the rule.

As for the whole Korean thing, I can't help but wonder why the actions of North Korea are being tolerated. I'm not political expert on the area, but it seems odd to me that the North have been testing their waters by attacking the South and the South never does anything back.

[Zeron]

Two people die and we're speculating about World War III?

I guess WW1 started by a mass execution.

Well, that was a long time ago, and there's no way in hell something like the assassination of one man would start a WORLD war now. People are pretty sick of war at this point, and I think would try to avoid it. I know here in the U.S. people aren't ready to go to war with another country. Now, i'm sure they will in 20 years or so, but not now.

I have to disagree, human mentality has not changed much at all from example someone who live in the 1200s, I seriously doubt after a mere 100 years we are so different from the folks in 1914.

[Acid King]

As for the whole Korean thing, I can't help but wonder why the actions of North Korea are being tolerated. I'm not political expert on the area, but it seems odd to me that the North have been testing their waters by attacking the South and the South never does anything back.

They're being tolerated because what's the alternative? There's nothing that can be done to punish them, they're extremely isolated and sanctions are basically meaningless. The proximity to South Korea means that if there was a military escalation conventional rockets could kill thousands and thousands of people, let alone the threat of them using a nuclear weapon or an actual ground troop invasion. Containment is the only real option until Kim croaks and when that happens, people just have to hope someone more sensible takes his place.

[njiska]

I guess WW1 started by a mass execution.

Well, that was a long time ago, and there's no way in hell something like the assassination of one man would start a WORLD war now. People are pretty sick of war at this point, and I think would try to avoid it. I know here in the U.S. people aren't ready to go to war with another country. Now, i'm sure they will in 20 years or so, but not now.

I have to disagree, human mentality has not changed much at all from example someone who live in the 1200s, I seriously doubt after a mere 100 years we are so different from the folks in 1914.

You're both ignoring one vary important fact. The Archduke's assassination was used as an excuse for countries already brimming to go to war to do just that. The reason it became a global conflict was because of rigidly defined alliance treaties. Treaties that aren't really in place today.

Yes, man is still fairly war like, but following the two great Wars the west has seen much peace. We're not the countries we were back then and it'll take more than a spat between two unimportant countries to light a global powder keg. War in Asia, fine. But globally, I doubt it.

Either ways this is all just a lot of speculation and posturing.

As for the whole Korean thing, I can't help but wonder why the actions of North Korea are being tolerated. I'm not political expert on the area, but it seems odd to me that the North have been testing their waters by attacking the South and the South never does anything back.

They're being tolerated because what's the alternative? There's nothing that can be done to punish them, they're extremely isolated and sanctions are basically meaningless. The proximity to South Korea means that if there was a military escalation conventional rockets could kill thousands and thousands of people, let alone the threat of them using a nuclear weapon or an actual ground troop invasion. Containment is the only real option until Kim croaks and when that happens, people just have to hope someone more sensible takes his place.

Not allow your neighbour to kill your citizens? Turning the cheek is an admirable action, but some times a show of force back is required to stem the tide. I'm not saying start a war, but make the gesture. Either way this is a matter for Korea to sort out, not an issue for us.

And holding out hope for a stable successor is not a wise idea. Kim's sound will doubtfully be any better than he is.

[neorichieb1971]

Man is not war like. It just so happens that those who make it to the top are very competitive. 99% of people don't want war, but you can bet 1% that do end up in leadership of some kind.

[Jonathan Ingram]

World wars happen when capitalism has exhausted all other means to reproduce itself. And while the current economic crisis is quite a severe one, we are not quite there yet. There`s no reason for this incident to evolve into a full-fledged war, let alone one that`s waged worldwide.

Propbly usa, france and the uk will make an end to the north corean misery once and for all if n-c attacks the south.

Yes, all the bombing of Korean cities and villages into the ground, all the death and murder inflicted upon it half a century ago was clearly not enough. Let`s put those North Korean untermenschen out of their misery once and for all. Bring on napalm and agent orange, I say.

[Ganelon]

Does anyone have info on why North Korea did this? Supposedly, it was in response to South Korean drills but that ROK already let DPRK know. That doesn't jive with me though. No editorials or attributing it to irrationality please.

[LtC]

Does anyone have info on why North Korea did this? Supposedly, it was in response to South Korean drills but that ROK already let DPRK know. That doesn't jive with me though. No editorials or attributing it to irrationality please.

Supposedly the new leader needs some military merits. He just got promoted to a general and he hasn't really done anything so far.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Man is not war like. It just so happens that those who make it to the top are very competitive. 99% of people don't want war, but you can bet 1% that do end up in leadership of some kind.

n most countries common everyday ppl hate war but those who are in power especially non democratic regimes like the communist dictatorship of N Korea can get out of touch of reality and crave more power then they allready have.

[E. Randy Dupre]

There`s no reason for this incident to evolve into a full-fledged war, let alone one that`s waged worldwide.

There was no justifiable reason for this incident to happen in the first place. It still did.

A lot of this thread reminds me of a comment I once read, stating that the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction was built on a false premise, that being that every nation thinks alike - that the USSR wouldn't be stupid enough to launch a nuclear strike, simply because we wouldn't. Things don't work out like that, though - you're ignoring differences in cultural outlook and cultural history.

Also, big lulz at the suggestion that nobody in the US wants to go to war. BIG lulz.

[Acid King]

Not allow your neighbour to kill your citizens? Turning the cheek is an admirable action, but some times a show of force back is required to stem the tide. I'm not saying start a war, but make the gesture. Either way this is a matter for Korea to sort out, not an issue for us.

How do you do that without provoking an escalation? They returned fire when the incident occurred and unless they want to tempt a full scale war, there isn't much they can do. Like I said, they just want to contain the North. They're not going to risk the destruction of their country because of a small outbreak of violence along the border.

A lot of this thread reminds me of a comment I once read, stating that the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction was built on a false premise, that being that every nation thinks alike - that the USSR wouldn't be stupid enough to launch a nuclear strike, simply because we wouldn't. Things don't work out like that, though - you're ignoring differences in cultural outlook and cultural history.

I can't think of many cultures that want to destroy themselves. Self preservation is as base an instinct as you'll find.

[E. Randy Dupre]

It's not about destroying yourself, though - it's about protecting yourself. Our media, during the Cold War period, frequently put forward the argument that the nuclear deterrent could never actually be used without guaranteeing our own destruction. Soviet media, for obvious reasons, put things in a very different light.

The discussion I'd read - wish I could remember where, now, because it was more clearly articulated than I can manage - was that it was a fallacy to believe that the USSR saw the situation the same as we did, because Russia suffered so much more during the last major conflict that it was involved in, and therefore the threat of invasion could well have been so great, with those still-recent events frsh in the minds of those in power, that they'd have gone to *any* lengths to prevent it from happening again.

In other words, the possession of nuclear weapons was a defensive measure for everybody, but we all define defense differently.

[njiska]

Not allow your neighbour to kill your citizens? Turning the cheek is an admirable action, but some times a show of force back is required to stem the tide. I'm not saying start a war, but make the gesture. Either way this is a matter for Korea to sort out, not an issue for us.

How do you do that without provoking an escalation? They returned fire when the incident occurred and unless they want to tempt a full scale war, there isn't much they can do. Like I said, they just want to contain the North. They're not going to risk the destruction of their country because of a small outbreak of violence along the border.

It's not a simple matter of an eye for an eye. You don't have to shoot back so show force. There are other ways. Blockades for example. Intercept Kim's shipment of Hennessy.

[Acid King]

It's not a simple matter of an eye for an eye. You don't have to shoot back so show force. There are other ways. Blockades for example. Intercept Kim's shipment of Hennessy.

They're already extremely isolated, sanctions like that aren't going to be much of a deterrent. North Korea has a border with China the South wouldn't be able to police and stretches of sea they wouldn't effectively be able to blockade.

[Drum]

Blockades would be seen as an act of aggression - be real. Only hope for a relatively peaceful outcome would be change from within NK, whether it's a new policy or new leadership. But they've stuck with their current plans long past the point of total collapse and the new guy is clearly no better so I'm not optimistic.

[BulletMagnet]

I can't think of many cultures that want to destroy themselves. Self preservation is as base an instinct as you'll find.

Depends upon what you mean by "culture" - more than a few nations/groups/etc. (not to mention nonpolitical conglomerations) are run by small handfuls of people more than willing to let every last human being and every last vestige of "cultural identity" under their control rot in hell if it means they get to do whatever they want with no consequences.

[GaijinPunch]

Who incharge of the country, is it still the crazy old man or has the son taken over yet? Hopefully the son isnt a crazy power monger like his dad is.

Most likely the old man swinging his cock around trying to look tough for the son.

I have to disagree, human mentality has not changed much at all from example someone who live in the 1200s, I seriously doubt after a mere 100 years we are so different from the folks in 1914.

Have you never watched Mad Men?

[Acid King]

Depends upon what you mean by "culture" - more than a few nations/groups/etc. (not to mention nonpolitical conglomerations) are run by small handfuls of people more than willing to let every last human being and every last vestige of "cultural identity" under their control rot in hell if it means they get to do whatever they want with no consequences.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Your operative phrase is "no consequences". Having your country turned into rubble, your people killed and losing all of your power, in addition to your life, certainly count as consequences.