NEC XM29, missing that CRT look, or is my memory corrupted?

[kamiboy]

So, I recently purchased a used NEC XM29 based on recommendations because my nostalgic eyes were craving that CRT look lying curled up in the corner of my memory.

When I initially got the display I was very much satisfied that it even powered on at all. My first impressions of it were that it had excellent colour depth and contrast, and for the first few days I, for testing purposes, just kept briefly throwing different consoles at it directly via S-video, which contrary to popular belief got me an excellent picture, solid, colourful and sharp. I also tested RGB through an XRGB-2+ which gave me an unsatisfactory result. Once my XSLECT-D4 arrives I hope to remedy that, but even if it does not help then S-video more that suffices.

Now, after settling down and actually playing some SNES games on it directly through S-video at length an unsettling feeling dawned on me. The feeling that this picture is certainly technically flawless, but alas, there is something, some quality missing here, something that short of a side by side comparison I have trouble putting my finger on.

In short I am not getting that CRT vibe from the picture being displayed.

I have a few theories that I hope people might be able to help me pick one out from. One is that I simply remember the warm natural look of CRT with too generous a fondness. My very last CRT television was a PAL 29" Panasonic 4:3 progressive scan television, and I was very happy with it. That was 5 or so years ago, so I have trouble accepting that I have forgotten what a CRT picture is supposed to look like in so short span of time.

Another theory is that, long, long ago, I played all my 8 and 16 bit games on a 19" CRT TV, and through RF to boot, and all of this in glorious 576i PAL. Perhaps seeing these games now produced with magnitudes more clarity, and on a gargantuan NTSC 29" in simply not what I am used to.

I'll know for sure if this is the case once my XSELECT-D4 arrives allowing me to can test out PSX games, because all of those I played on a PAL 29" CRT, and through SCART, so my current setup is very comparable.

My final theory, and this is the one I am most leaning towards, is that this XM29, despite recommendations, is just not the right display for lowres gaming. Looking at the picture I seem to get the feel of it being a bit harsh, no unlike an LCD is harsh.

I had some doubts when shopping around for the perfect display in the very highest end of the spectrum. The XM29 is a presentation display capable of high resolutions. Perhaps since it is designed with accuracy in mind, rather than showing of broadcast video, as is the priority of most 480i CRT TV's, then its image is too precise, too sharp, too accurate to be a fit marriage for 240p games.

I think a general lack of natural antialiasing, or blurring of you will, inherent to lowres CRT displays might be the problem here, but outside of a side by side, which is not available to me, I cannot be sure. Let it just be said that turning down the sharpness control on the unit does very little to give me what I seem to crave.

Has anyone here, whose owned or has spent time with a XM29, noticed this, or were bothered by a similar feeling. Can anyone who has had, or currently has a XM29 along with a comparable sized arcade monitor, or plain old crappy CRT, compare the two to see wither if I am mad or not?

I have noticed around these forums there being sort of an obsession with obtaining a very, very sharp, pixly image from older games. This has so far somewhat mystified me, but perhaps the problem is simply that I just do not like a computer like image, with its clear cut pixels, which to me is what the XM29 is putting out, and much prefer a softer, more natural flow of a low res CRT.

Is that it then, anyone care to comment?

[gray117]

Er... give it a couple more years to develop problems?

Seriously though... The main solution will lie in defining what it is your brain is craving - what will give you that look you want.

Firstly any disatisfaction is not because your old PAL rf setup gave you too good a picture In fact it was probably lucky you played that on a small screen otherwise you'd probably not have those fond memories to begin with...

If you were definitely happy with your old crt I may suggest this is the most likely issue - The phosphers will be more dense in the xm29 [allowing it to do the higher res displays]; this is probably what's getting you about a harsher look/feel.

...However...

I'd be curious to know though what exactly was the rgb 'unsatisfactory', did you try 15hz rgb 480i and 240p or was it 31hz (vga) 640*480?

I don't know if purposefully softening the focus or putting off convergence a bit would help you [not sure how to do this with xm29... may well require a degree of tinkering you'll be uncomfortable with]. I would suggest giving the 'perfect' monitor a longer run with rgb etc before doing this though - see if your tastes adjust...



It probably comes down to this - your brain is craving probably craving one of two things:

1. Its a small detail with the phosphers - try an low res only screen - preferably a sony trinitron with which you'll be assured to access to a service menu [or even better a pvm version] these should give you a clear but spaced phospher placement...

2. You want the interlaced glow/flicker? I presume the xm29 does not replicate this. Personally my eyes can't stand this, many people find it perfectly acceptable, I presume some
people (you?) will even want this. If your brain was more in old-console-crt-land rather than good-arcade-crt-land, basically if you feel scanlines are not good, and 480p looks too perfect, this maybe your niche...


Personally I can sympathise with 1, but think you'll come round to the xm29. I can't sympathise with 2, but this might be the only way you could describe a perfect xm29 as not good...

Good luck!

[kamiboy]

If you were definitely happy with your old crt I may suggest this is the most likely issue - The phosphers will be more dense in the xm29 [allowing it to do the higher res displays]; this is probably what's getting you about a harsher look/feel.

This is what I fear.

I'd be curious to know though what exactly was the rgb 'unsatisfactory', did you try 15hz rgb 480i and 240p or was it 31hz (vga) 640*480?

I do not have the proper cables to try 15khz RGB, so for RGB it was 31hz via XRGB, with full scanlines. But I do have the proper s-video cables, so I connected my SNES to the display directly giving me pure 15khz 240p. This was the setup I spent the most time with, and it was the picture with which I took most objection.

I don't know if purposefully softening the focus or putting off convergence a bit would help you [not sure how to do this with xm29... may well require a degree of tinkering you'll be uncomfortable with]. I would suggest giving the 'perfect' monitor a longer run with rgb etc before doing this though - see if your tastes adjust...

Well, those adjustments certainly are not among the ones in the menu, and I am not keen on opening up the case. In any case I am by all means sticking with this, but I doubt it will grow on me, it just looks too much like a computer image to me.

1. Its a small detail with the phosphers - try an low res only screen - preferably a sony trinitron with which you'll be assured to access to a service menu [or even better a pvm version] these should give you a clear but spaced phospher placement...

I am toying with the idea of possibly getting myself a 19" SONY PVM. Possibly the 1944Q, but certainly not any time soon, in a few months perhaps.

2. You want the interlaced glow/flicker? I presume the xm29 does not replicate this. Personally my eyes can't stand this, many people find it perfectly acceptable, I presume some
people (you?) will even want this. If your brain was more in old-console-crt-land rather than good-arcade-crt-land, basically if you feel scanlines are not good, and 480p looks too perfect, this maybe your niche...

I think it is a combination of both 1, and 2. I do have a 22" CRT monitor lying around, which wet my appetite for this whole going back to CRT thing. And that one, although not perfect, certainly is closer to that CRT look which I crave. Too bad that it cannot do 15khz though.

Perhaps the nature of the XM29 will mean it is better suited to play PS2, Dreamcast, and Gamecube era games. Especially the one's with progressive scan support. I await my XSELECT-D4 with bated breath, for with it I can connect my more recent consoles to the XM29 via RGB and component.

Then a SONY PVM 1944Q would be the better choice for 240p games. I'll know just as soon as I can afford one.

[Endymion]

My final theory, and this is the one I am most leaning towards, is that this XM29, despite recommendations, is just not the right display for lowres gaming. Looking at the picture I seem to get the feel of it being a bit harsh, no unlike an LCD is harsh.

Dude, shoot yourself. Honestly. If you aren't even going to try to use this interlaced capable screen with an interlaced image and then declare it unsuitable for interlaced games there really isn't anything left to do. Stop being such a coward, go to radio shack, get some soldering tools and rewire a SCART box with a VGA plug. This is so simple to do and all you are doing is depriving yourself. If you spent a mere fraction of the effort that you put into composing your Shakespearean posts about this actually putting it together to make it work you would get the results that you have spent so much time looking for. All you're really saying is that the XRGB looks nice but it isn't the same thing as having real scanlines. Well duh! That screen can do real scanlines. Give them to it already!

[kamiboy]

My dear fellow, if you had bothered reading the entirety of my post you would know that I spent most of my time using this display through S-video, hooked directly to my SNES. My problems are certainly not with colour or lack of image clarity, as such I fail so see what getting an pure RGB image on it would solve?

I just don't like the look of the image, it is interlaced, and there are true 240p scanlines here, courtesy of an direct S-video delivery, but something is off about it, and I am trying determine what that is.

The source of my issue is with the display itself, not what is being fed into it. As such the old trusty advice of the forums, going RGB, will solve nothing. This is a CRT, to be sure, and it has 15khz support, but the end result does not look like a 15khz CRT image to my eyes.

Poor old Shakespeare, he must be having a jolly old roll in his tomb.

[Endymion]

My dear fellow, if you had bothered reading the entirety of my post you would know that I spent most of my time using this display through S-video, hooked directly to my SNES.

Yes, yes my good man, I caught that in its entirety, and after realigning my irises from a rolling romp that would have done the Cookie Monster proud, could only question why you choose to continue to deprive yourself. Twice so, when you continue to have issues as before.

I just don't like the look of the image, it is interlaced, and there are true 240p scanlines here, courtesy of an direct S-video delivery, but something is off about it, and I am trying determine what that is.

There are adjustments aplenty to be made, I think you can even moire the hell out of that screen if you have such a backwards desire for it, but it's been a while since I've turned mine on.

The source of my issue is with the display itself, not what is being fed into it. As such the old trusty advice of the forums, going RGB, will solve nothing. This is a CRT, to be sure, and it has 15khz support, but the end result does not look like a 15khz CRT image to my eyes.

Well then since you have it all figured out without any testing of the one source that you would want to use ideally then I'll leave you to it.

Poor old Shakespeare, he must be having a jolly old roll in his tomb.

He started about the time you went looking for an RGB setup. You know you could have just solved all of this issue a long time ago with a Panasonic Professional plasma? As much as RGB32e hates them, I daresay I think he would agree with as simple a solution as it would be for your tragic, William-sized plight.

Almost forgot.

[kamiboy]

Perhaps I would do better to discuss this in your preferred vulgar terms:

Cool story bro.

[jonny5]

I have an XM29 xtra that I play SNES on via s-video as well; looks great, considerably better than other comparable CRT's I've tried.

Do you have the remote for the unit? I'm not at home right now so can't check, but you may not have access to all menus without it?

[kamiboy]

Didn't come with a remote this one. But There are plenty of picture options via the front buttons, mostly geometry stuff though. Only option of any relevance to my issues, if they can even be called that, is the sharpness, and turning that down does not do much.

Maybe I am asking for too much, but dang it, I remember clearly 240p games looking a lot more natural on CRT televisions than here. And to clarify for certain RGB nazi fractions, this is not an issue with the source, the image comes through crystal clear and nicely contrasted. It just looks too pixelated, too sharp almost, only way I can put it is, it looks like an emulator on LCD, with fake scanlines and no filtering.

[StarCreator]

All I can say is, if my posts in that other thread were really what led you down this path, I'm really, really sorry.

I know for certain the PVM-2950Q is a 15KHz-only display and looked as good as the best lo-res arcade monitors, but I have little experience with the XM29 other than the fact that composite video looks terrible on it.

[kamiboy]

Sorry, for what? I was the one who made the decision to go this route. Besides, I am certain this will look stellar for 128 bit era consoles, just seemingly not very fit for lowres.

I may yet get a 25" or 19" PVM, but this will be my last CRT of this size.

[ZOM]

Following this thread a bit, and don't take the following too literal... and correct me if my assumptio is wrong, but I'm getting the feeling that the picture you're looking for = crap.

With that I mean that probably what you're looking for isn't a good, sharp monitor like the XM29 or the PVM or similar hardware, but much more a standard CRT TV set.
And not one of the latest(say, post '97) either, but one without any processing done to the picture. Reading your post it seems to me that you're looking for that old unsharp CRT look that some here would call "blurry mess". Mind you, I'm not rating that "look" down, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder after all.

Note that hooking up the consoles via RGB(yes I'm in that Nazi faction too) on such a blurry monitor might just get the look you're after: a defined albeit slightly soft 15kHz picture.
Hooking up RGB on a XM29 won't give you what you're after either, but much more the opposite.

[kamiboy]

Hooking up RGB on a XM29 won't give you what you're after either, but much more the opposite.

Exactly what I have been trying to say.

Anyway, I think you nailed it with my wanting a blurry mess, or rather a pre-digital processing era CRT. I played 8 and 16bit era games on early 90's CRT televisions, and mostly on very small sets < 20" to boot.

I can certainly sympathize with people who want to achieve the highest visual fidelity possible, and I do too, for high res stuff, I wouldn't want to watch Blu-ray movies on anything but a larger than 50" 1080p set with 24 fps input via HDMI.

And I absolutely cannot wait till my XSELECT arrives so I can try out my Wii, PS2 and Gamecube on the XM29, they should look fantastic, I hope.

But for 240p, no so much. I don't like the look where each and every single pixel is a clearly defined square on the display. And I certainly do not care much for the very, very prominent scanlines interleaving each line of display. It just does not look natural to my eyes, I prefer a look where instead of each individual line, or pixel being so marked, they instead blend together more naturally.

I should mention I have very good eyesight which only elevates the problem.

Last night I dragged out my 22" CRT monitor to do some testing and I much prefer the look on that display because there each pixel and scanline is so small that instead of being marked, they rather blend together more naturally, emulating that lowfi CRT look. I also found that if I sat quite an absurd length away from the XM29, then the graphics began to blend in together more nicely.

Anyway, back in the day I remember I always admired how a CRT TV could take a raster of individual light pixels and blend them together so naturally into a cohesive whole. I could not understand how it worked for when I got close to the screen I could see that it was all, after all, just a series of dots. But that natural blending is what is missing from the XM29, nothing blends together, this was built for accuracy, and everything is defined with great clarity.

While searching for potential displays I did fall over a guy trying to sell a early 80's SONY Profeel 29" monitor. I knew in my gut that this was likely to be the best choice. But the sheer age put me off somewhat, and then the seller refused to ship it and I did not press him, so that was that, but still, I wish I had ended up with that one.

Another thought I had is that I come from PAL territory and now live in NTSC domain. PAL had about 100 more lines of resolution which meant that each display line, and scanline were that much thinner. Add to this that most old PAL games were not converted to use all the extra lines and instead had black bars above and below, making what was visible squeezed into a smaller space, thus less defined. I think this is part of the problem as well.

[neorichieb1971]

Interesting thread. I've never read a thread where so much attention has been made to single scanlines or pixels.

[kamiboy]

You've never been to AVSforum then I faith. But the core issue is no different than with most other threads where someone is not happy with the nature of what is being displayed. In this case however, instead of a clear cut visual artifact, like screen shake, noise, or geometry, it is a less tangible quality, what I refer to as the CRT look.

But heavens, if you think this is strange you should frequent some of the threads on AVSforum to see masterly crafted hair splitting of such minute, niche issues that will grow you horns.

[kamiboy]

I remember that my parent had a beautiful fancy looking Blaupunkt that they bought, must have been in 1991-1992, and which always had a very nice soft, natural looking picture. It also had a sheet of tinted glass inserted in front of the tube that made the colours look a lot better. Once, while repairing the TV my father took that sheet of glass off and I remember thinking it made the picture look a lot worse.

Another CRT highlight in my life was my brother coming into the ownership of a Bang and Olufsen 1980's CRT set, the model with the wheeled metal feet underneath.

That one had what I think is the best CRT picture I have ever seen in my life, it was to die for. Too bad then that it is likely in a landfill somewhere by now. If I were still living in PAL territory I could just swing by a local Bang and Olufsen store and pick up one of their used CRT TV's.

B&O, is a really high end brand mostly frequented by the creme de la creme of society, but as of 4 or so years ago they were still buying back their older equipment from owners, like their excellent CRT TV's of 80's and 90's and selling them refurbished. A lucky enough person could walk into one of their stores right now and pick one of those gems up, ah, the very thought is unbearable.

[brentsg]

I certainly "get it", then again I've wasted countless hours.. days.. and more at AVS. I finally kicked the habit after years of reading the same posters argue the same points endlessly.

I also flew calibrators from NYC and San Francisco to Missouri to work on my displays a number of times. But damn, did they get them just right..

People think the arcade scene is a money sink, try high-end AV.

[kamiboy]

Tell me about it, but luckily so far I have managed to limit my visits to AVS to times when I am getting ready to upgrade my equipment. And that only happens once every two to three years. At those times some of their minute observations are quite useful, as well as the fact that at any one time it is easy gauge the zeitgeist for the one currently favoured new product.

I've always been curious about calibration, but so far I've settled for just tweaking settings to my own liking, even if it might not technically be ideal. Of course, since videogames are my primary concern, it does not even really make sense to calibrate for them, they are computer generated images and as far as I know there are no standards for colour set in stone among game developers such as there are among makers of film and video.

[RGB32E]

I certainly "get it", then again I've wasted countless hours.. days.. and more at AVS. I finally kicked the habit after years of reading the same posters argue the same points endlessly.

I also flew calibrators from NYC and San Francisco to Missouri to work on my displays a number of times. But damn, did they get them just right..

People think the arcade scene is a money sink, try high-end AV.

<facepalm/>

Why'd you have to sell this guy your XRGB-2+?

A number of times.... for each one, or for multiple attempts!

If you buy the right high-end AV, you won't keep sinking money... easier said, but done!

[RGB32E]

Once my XSLECT-D4 arrives I hope to remedy that, but even if it does not help then S-video more that suffices.

In the beginning of my RGB pursuit, I was looking to get a monitor/TV to provide the same look as a new CRT in a arcade cab and/or the Zenith made flat faced CRT on select Super NES retail kiosks. The key to the PQ of both was analog RGB!

Not sure about your particular area, but there are plenty of used CRTs out there that you could use instead of the NEC... connected via composite video.

Now, after settling down and actually playing some SNES games on it directly through S-video at length an unsettling feeling dawned on me. The feeling that this picture is certainly technically flawless, but alas, there is something, some quality missing here, something that short of a side by side comparison I have trouble putting my finger on.

In short I am not getting that CRT vibe from the picture being displayed.

Not all CRTs are the same. Phosphor arrangement, dot pitch, and phosphor composition are 3 important aspects of how a given CRT looks. Perhaps the NECs dot pitch is too low for what you're looking at.

What CRT were you using before that you enjoyed?

You might want to figure out where your finger should be on this topic. Sounds like quite the run around...

[brentsg]

A number of times.... for each one, or for multiple attempts!

If you buy the right high-end AV, you won't keep sinking money... easier said, but done!

This was in the days of rear projection CRTs. Oh believe me, it was (still is.. love it) pretty much the best display available at the time. Unfortunately they came out of the box with horrible image quality and there was very little one could do from the user menu. And unfortunately that particular technology didn't hold a calibration over time so it needed some rework as the years passed. The San Fran trip was one of the unique folks that has the capability to both repair and calibrate amongst the best in the country. I had a red CRT fail after several years, and though the manufacturer made it right the local techs were unable to eliminate the strong red push from the other "guns" having already aged significantly. Of course that's nothing money and the right skills can't fix.

Call me old fashioned, but even in the days of flat panel TVs I still prefer my RPCRT. I've got a Pioneer Kuro plasma as well now, but it's strictly for gaming.

[StarCreator]

I think I'd love our RP CRT a lot more if it didn't take a small army to move it anywhere its wheels can't go. The picture was definitely great for the first few years, but over time, it just completely lost the ability to maintain steady convergence. Flat panels are just so much easier to deal with at this point, though I wish they didn't come with absolutely terrible speakers.

But yeah, my initial experience with the RP when we first got it was similar - a friend from Norway just happened to be in the area for a social event and I brought him to my house to help me tinker with the service menu and run a calibration disc before I took him to the airport to go home. We never got into actually tuning the hardware or using light sensors, which I guess is just as well since my immediate family pretty much rejected our calibrated settings and tuned it to their eyes anyway. >.>;

[brentsg]

I think I'd love our RP CRT a lot more if it didn't take a small army to move it anywhere its wheels can't go. The picture was definitely great for the first few years, but over time, it just completely lost the ability to maintain steady convergence. Flat panels are just so much easier to deal with at this point, though I wish they didn't come with absolutely terrible speakers.

But yeah, my initial experience with the RP when we first got it was similar - a friend from Norway just happened to be in the area for a social event and I brought him to my house to help me tinker with the service menu and run a calibration disc before I took him to the airport to go home. We never got into actually tuning the hardware or using light sensors, which I guess is just as well since my immediate family pretty much rejected our calibrated settings and tuned it to their eyes anyway. >.>;

Ha yeah they are heavy. I think mine was like 450 pounds boxed when new. But I have it in a location that's perfect for it so the bulk is a non-issue. Mine's soon going to need another bit of tweaking but there's a local guy I can use now. The guys that did mine before prob had roughly $30k worth of gear that they used. It was really a fun process to watch.

I think the only thing that I've found objectionable over time is that I've apparently got some dust accumulating somewhere generally inaccessible in the optics. This is causing some issues with internal reflections during dark scenes that have bright light mixed in (think guy carrying torch in cave, or street light with a dark scene). Next go-around I may have them tear the optics all the way down and see if this can be fixed up. Depending on the model it's one of those things best left alone until you need to do it.

Mine will be 9 years old at Christmas time this year. Not sure if you still have yours, but the convergence boards generally aren't difficult to replace.

[kamiboy]

What CRT were you using before that you enjoyed?

A 28" early 90's Blaupunkt TV that my parents owned. A similar sized 80's Bang and Olufsen Biovision. Those two were the best most natural CRT images I have ever seen. But most of my 8 bit games were played on some noname ~19" TV, through RF. Young eyes are less discerning after all, and beggars cannot be choosers.

[RGB32E]

Call me old fashioned, but even in the days of flat panel TVs I still prefer my RPCRT.

Was it a high end Pioneer or Mitsubishi unit?

I've got a Pioneer Kuro plasma as well now, but it's strictly for gaming.

Do you use a XRGB-3 on that display?

[RGB32E]

What CRT were you using before that you enjoyed?

A 28" early 90's Blaupunkt TV that my parents owned. A similar sized 80's Bang and Olufsen Biovision. Those two were the best most natural CRT images I have ever seen. But most of my 8 bit games were played on some noname ~19" TV, through RF. Young eyes are less discerning after all, and beggars cannot be choosers.

Hmmm.... so you're trying to replicate that experience? If so, just about any SD CRT TV with a composite video input would solve your dilemma! The XM29 CRT is a data grade tube, and not a "video grade" one found in standard def TVs. However, when I've connected 240p RGB to a XM29, it looks pretty much the same as an arcade monitor. The main difference being that the XM29 has a finer dot pitch and different phosphors (XM29 being quicker than a 15kHz only display). You still have a XSelectD4 on the way so that you can use standard cables for RGB?

[brentsg]

Call me old fashioned, but even in the days of flat panel TVs I still prefer my RPCRT.

Was it a high end Pioneer or Mitsubishi unit?

I've got a Pioneer Kuro plasma as well now, but it's strictly for gaming.

Do you use a XRGB-3 on that display?

Sorry I'm multi-quote challenged.

The RP is a Pioneer Elite.

Interesting question regarding the XRGB-3. I just received a brand new one in the mail this week. However, during the time that it was in proxy/shipping.. my kids discovered the Wii. Since they're 5 and I don't relish the thought of a plasma TV tipped over.. I now have a 27" CRT setup for them. I'm thinking about leaving it up for the older consoles and hawking the XRGB-3.

[kamiboy]

You still have a XSelectD4 on the way so that you can use standard cables for RGB?

That is correct. The XSELECT is going to act as the primary hub between my consoles and the XM. Right now the only input I can use is S-video since even composit requires BNC connectors which are also in the mail.

When I was ordering the XM I was A bit apprehensive about it perhaps being more geared towards data presentation instead of broadcast, but I took the risk. I am not going to buy any other displays of this size though. Maybe a 20" PVM down the line, or I'll just learn to live with what I have. I wish I could get my hands on a Beovision, my brother's looked amazing through SCART RGB. Nothing like what I've got here.

[neorichieb1971]

I went to a B+O store the other day. No TV's from that brand were in store. I remember years ago going into the same store and seeing some lifestyle designed TV's that were really weird. I think one had curtains on it and another had a remote that could tilt its direction. Swedish are not normal people lol.

I am sorry I directed you in the way of the XM, but honestly there are people here that would take it off your hands for what you paid. I remember a pic from ages ago of someone who had 2 of them in a cluster of TV's in TATE orientation, perhaps someone knows the pic i'm on about. It had DDP on one of them.

The PVM's as I stated before are older and if bought from the wrong place will cost significantly for what is a load of landfill. Make sure when you buy a PVM you get one from a fellow shmupper that can testify to its performance. The XM will suit your needs with the aid of gizmos though. Perhaps you need to buy one of those scanline products in the other threads. I am sorry that the world left CRT's behind too. Although I feel more depressed nobody made a digital TV that kept low res in a respectable state. Surely a 240/480 LCD isn't that hard to make with scanlines built in?

[Ed Oscuro]

Surely a 240/480 LCD isn't that hard to make with scanlines built in?

That would be the easy part. The part that isn't so easy is keeping its input lag minimal and fixing the viewing angle issues most panels have (especially "gaming" TN panels), at low cost.