Tated MAME At Last!! But Why Does It Feel So Good??

[mjclark]

At last there was a spare PC lying around at home so I hooked it up to a tated CRT and started playing Gekirindan like it's sposed to be. But why does it feel so good? Somehow it's a qualitatively different experience from all the console and console emulator shmups I've played (on mainly yoko screens) but I'm not sure why it just seems so much better.
I guess the next step up is PCBs and jamma,eh?

[phrenzee]

It depends. If you've hooked the crt up using a vga-scart cable, then yes - pcbs are probably the next step. Otherwise you really should get/make a cable to get the oh-so-lovely scanlines.
Tate is simply better - also for browsing the web actually

[clp]

Tate ftw! now if only doujin producers would catch on , I might actually enjoy a touhou one day if they went tate .

[Zeron]

Remember lower the resolution in MAME to like 640x480 it will look alot better, higher resolutions look like ass imo.

[drunkninja24]

Remember lower the resolution in MAME to like 640x480 it will look alot better, higher resolutions look like ass imo.

And turn on scanlines.

If you're really crazy, get Soft15KHz and try to run the games in their original resolutions

[Obiwanshinobi]

First and foremost, disable bilinear filtering.

[Dave_K.]

Remember lower the resolution in MAME to like 640x480 it will look alot better, higher resolutions look like ass imo.

And turn on scanlines.

Both excellent tips. 640x480 with fake scanlines gets you pretty close to what it would look like on a real arcade monitor without the hassle.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Many ppl think shmuppers who Tate and advise others to do the same are just been elitist pricks, but thats because they haved tried it themselves and dont know what theyre missing

EDIT (to answer the OPs question from the title. The reason it feels so good play mame in tate is because thats how the games are ment to be played the whole game has been made with tate in mind.

whilst im not saying playing on a smaller screen is wrong or anything but this vid does ring true in a way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iWWf6KqIQw

[Zeron]

Remember lower the resolution in MAME to like 640x480 it will look alot better, higher resolutions look like ass imo.

And turn on scanlines.

Both excellent tips. 640x480 with fake scanlines gets you pretty close to what it would look like on a real arcade monitor without the hassle.

I can't seem to find a option for emulating scanlines in shmup MAME any help?

I can find scanline emulation in THUNDERMAME though

[captpain]

Tate makes everything better. It's not just more fun... it's helpful, too.

I don't know if I'm alone here, but I like to play at 960x1280 with no scanline effects or filtering. I think it looks better on my CRT in higher resolution.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

As Dave K just said, thx for the tips guys ive never bothered with scanlines myself yet

Edit well i have tryed turning on scanlines once or twice and didnt like it but I was probably doing something wrong as I was just messing with the menu options

[Obiwanshinobi]

I can't seem to find a option for emulating scanlines in shmup MAME any help?

Right-click on a game's title, choose Properties, Display - uncheck Use Bilinear filtering (pixel art looks better without it), then Advanced - Select Effect - Real_Scanlines (that's what I use).

[Zetzumarshen]

Tate ftw! now if only doujin producers would catch on , I might actually enjoy a touhou one day if they went tate .

Touhou tate http://bygzam.seesaa.net/article/123123010.html

I tried it, only works on Touhou 10,11,12.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

How do they play? Its been awhile since ive played a touhou but I would imagine it to be pritty crap unless the borders and score info is removed

[Zetzumarshen]

[Zeron]

I can't seem to find a option for emulating scanlines in shmup MAME any help?

Right-click on a game's title, choose Properties, Display - uncheck Use Bilinear filtering (pixel art looks better without it), then Advanced - Select Effect - Real_Scanlines (that's what I use).

Nice thanks, but struck me just now why would you need scanline emulation when using a CRT does it not produce its own native ones when usinga a lowresolution?

Also I cannot really find "Real-scanline" emulation in shmup MAME because I think the newer MAME clients dropped the the old system and replaced it with you selecting somekind overlay scanline png files? and neither can I find any png file called real-scanlines.

Help would be appriciated

[Dave_K.]

After mame .106 is where the classic scanlines option was replaced with PNG overlays. Shmupmame v2 is based on the later version, and there seems to be a bug with this latest build as it won't recognize any PNG files I give it.

Also shmupmame v2 didn't seem to come with the default effect PNG files, I had to test with files from another version.

[Zeron]

After mame .106 is where the classic scanlines option was replaced with PNG overlays. Shmupmame v2 is based on the later version, and there seems to be a bug with this latest build as it won't recognize any PNG files I give it.

Also shmupmame v2 didn't seem to come with the default effect PNG files, I had to test with files from another version.

I see which PNG files are the most "arcade" accurate?


There are a bunch of different ones here too http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/po ... =emuadvice , though I still got a question is there really a point in emulating scanlines when CRT monitors produce them at lower resolutions? Wont there be like a native CRT vs the emulated one conflict going on?

[cools]

I see which PNG files are the most "arcade" accurate?

This method.

http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/MAME_CRT_Simulation

(http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3686)

EDIT: Whoops, you're on a CRT. Use a 100% dark one for accuracy.

[Zeron]

I see which PNG files are the most "arcade" accurate?

This method.

http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/MAME_CRT_Simulation

(http://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3686)

EDIT: Whoops, you're on a CRT. Use a 100% dark one for accuracy.

So I am supposed to use this http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/images/8/83 ... ols_x4.png then enlarge it to 640x480 in my case?

Or do you mean I should just find some scanline png and chose one with fat dark scanlines?

I will be awaiting your answe as I am clueless

[Dave_K.]

though I still got a question is there really a point in emulating scanlines when CRT monitors produce them at lower resolutions? Wont there be like a native CRT vs the emulated one conflict going on?

I think the OP meant he is using a CRT PC Monitor rather than an LCD.

[Zeron]

I have been fidding around with many scanline png's and many of them look terrible on my CRT they go wayoverboard seems that most of them are designed for higher resolutions then 640x480

[austere]

does it not produce its own native ones when using a lowresolution?

It's not running at the same horizontal refresh rate, which for most arcade game will probably be around 15kHz. Let us say it is running at 31kHz, the mode is then 640x480@60Hz. That means that even if the card is getting data at 320x240 (if that, most will not even support emulation of this mode with standard drivers), it is basically doubling the scanlines on the CRT which definitely does not look the same.

Getting something closer to real scanlines these days would require you to use at least 8x the resolution in either direction. Anyway getting into this will take a long time and I have to get ready to fly this evening so I'll leave you these two quality links:

http://postback.geedorah.com/foros/view ... 9445#p9445
http://postback.geedorah.com/foros/viewtopic.php?id=623 (Spanish)

[Obiwanshinobi]

does it not produce its own native ones when using a lowresolution?

It's not running at the same horizontal refresh rate, which for most arcade game will probably be around 15kHz. Let us say it is running at 31kHz, the mode is then 640x480@60Hz. That means that even if the card is getting data at 320x240 (if that, most will not even support emulation of this mode with standard drivers), it is basically doubling the scanlines on the CRT which definitely does not look the same.

Yeah, I play Hydorah and NES games (on NesterJ) in "320x240" (no bilinear filtering) which indeed looks more like 640x480, but it's okay with me. Not the same as 240p on a TV, but I wouldn't say it looks worse, just different. In other emulators I usually choose higher resolutions and some kind of scanlines, though. As long as there's no filtering violation of the original pixel art, I'm happy even without true lo-res.

Also I cannot really find "Real-scanline" emulation in shmup MAME because I think the newer MAME clients dropped the the old system and replaced it with you selecting somekind overlay scanline png files? and neither can I find any png file called real-scanlines.

I just put the Shmupmame_v2.exe file in one folder with mameuifx32.exe. Both versions share the same romsets, BIOSes and whatnot. You should find the Real_Scanlines.png file in the "artwork" folder.
By the way, your monitor's screen refresh rate should be set to more than 60 Hz as certain arcade games refresh the screen more frequently on the original hardware. Basically the higher refresh rate the better as screen tearing is less noticeable at higher rates. Forced v-sync (and/or triple buffering) is never the best solution as it adds some input lag.

[Zeron]

This method is really confusing me
http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/MAME_CRT_Simulation
I understand it perfectly then comes the batrid.lay

Do I need somekind of special software to save a .lay file?


And the final one >resize this tile




Anyone mind explaining these two parts idiot proof?


keep in mind I am trying to pull it off on a CRT

[Obiwanshinobi]

1280x960 is NOT "320x240 x 4". More like "x16"
Have you tried each and every *.png file from the "artwork" folder? It'd be wise to try out different ones before you start to manually make your own. Real_Scanlines.png puts the scanlines just where they are needed, right between the pixels (I guess MAME scales it automatically).

[cools]

keep in mind I am trying to pull it off on a CRT

Then do not use it, it's pointless for you.

[phrenzee]

I would think that using high res on a CRT would still benefit from fake scanlines, no?

After doing the vga-scart cable/soft15khz thing, I can't imagine going back...

[cools]

Scanlines YES. Shadow mask/apeture grill effects NO

[Zeron]

1280x960 is NOT "320x240 x 4". More like "x16"
Have you tried each and every *.png file from the "artwork" folder? It'd be wise to try out different ones before you start to manually make your own. Real_Scanlines.png puts the scanlines just where they are needed, right between the pixels (I guess MAME scales it automatically).

Real scanlines is definetly the best one il go with it thanks!

Then do not use it, it's pointless for you.

Oh I see, well I know plenty of people who play MAME games with LCDs so I will shove it down their throats