XRGB-3

[kamiboy]

I am based out of Canada, and my SNES is using its own standard power adapter, so no problems there.

The XRGB-3 isn't going to solve anything for me though as I would be using its B1 mode exclusively, I bought the XRGB2 just for the privilege of scanlines after all. I can simulate the look of B0 mode by turning off scanlines when displaying on my CRT, and I do not like that look at all, its pointless to my purpose.

That being said the picture that I get from the SNES is so terrible that I doubt even the 3's B0 mode can fix it via a few tweaks. While doing some research in another forum, which you also contribute in, I fell upon a several year old thread that was discussing the finer points of the inner workings of various SNES's and their RGB cables. There I saw a lot of talk of 220 resistors and 70 ohm capacitors, being put here and removed there.

I believe the source of my problem may be a bad combination of these either being present where they should not be, or not being present when they are expected to in the pairing of my specific SNES revision and the SVCH-010 cables designed to Super Famicom specifications.

Of course, if you take gander in a another thread in this forum you'll see that I am making arrangements to acquire a SONY CRT TV, or a SONY CRT studio monitor. If that pans out then my XRGB and all these cables I got for it instantly become obsolete and useless to me.

Then I'll have other, completely different challenges to tackle. I might then actually need to find another Micomsoft product, the XSELECT-D4.

[Endymion]

Of course, if you take gander in a another thread in this forum you'll see that I am making arrangements to acquire a SONY CRT TV, or a SONY CRT studio monitor. If that pans out then my XRGB and all these cables I got for it instantly become obsolete and useless to me.

The XRGB would be useless on a PVM, yes. But your cables? Hell no. In fact that's right where you'd need them.

[kamiboy]

Well, not directly anyway. Nowhere on any monitor or TV sold here that I can plug in a SCART lead, let alone one wired by Japanese standards.

I need to jump through a few hoops. Either get a XSELECT-D4, plug my SCART cables and what have you into it and get the proper cables to feed the component output into my display of choice. Or as I mentioned in the other thread. Get a Female to Female SCART adapter, rewire it to be Japanese to Euro, which I have no idea how to do, and then purchase a SCART to BNC cables and hope things will work.

Well, I'll get the display first then decide how to solve issues of cabling.

[kamiboy]

A short update on my SNES RGB troubles. Out of curiosity and boredom I opened up my SNES to have gander inside and just as I suspected my SNES according to this site sports the rare 3rd revision of the NTSC/U motherboard, the one with the one chip sound.

Hurra for me, I won the rare SNES revision lottery, and my prize, no RGB apparently, jolly good show.

[Sargon]

Before I order a D-terminal cable for my PS2, just how unstable is the PS2 in B1 mode? The wiki says there is "extreme sensibility to noise in the signal", but I'm not sure exactly what that means. What would create the noise in the signal?

the D/A converter used by Sony in the PS2 is just crap. On 15khz signals the noise isn't a problem as long as you don't mind using the LPF and adjusting the XRGB's A/D converter to minimize the noise. On 31khz signals (480p) it gets worse. If you're shopping for a new PS2 cable, you're better off with a RGBs cable. You can still run YUV through (and 480p as well), it's just the WAY better cable.

I'm looking to order the cable now, but I still don't understand why SCART would be better than D-terminal component? What am I missing? Also, is there a particular high-quality SCART cable that anyone can recommend? I haven't been able to locate an official cable, just several different cheap 3rd-party options on eBay.

[Ganelon]

In a nutshell, RGB SCART breaks a picture down into a base RGB signal that a TV (which displays RGB) can more directly use. This isn't to be confused with lesser used (but which you'll see sometimes in cheaper 3rd party cables nowadays) composite SCART, which uses the same SCART connector but only sends a composite picture.

I'm not sure how well the PS2 D-Terminal output works but even if it was ideal (which apparently it's not), D-Terminal carries component video (YPbPr) that must be translated back to RGB for your TV to display. This middleware conversion is high quality and the video can be separated much cleaner than through S-Video or composite but given a large screen, the RGB will come out slightly clearer since the signals undergo minimal conversion (from RGB to RGB). But one thing that the PS2 does offer is progressive scan via component video (either through component or D-Terminal, for games that support it), which isn't possible through RGB.

[darklegion]

But one thing that the PS2 does offer is progressive scan via component video (either through component or D-Terminal, for games that support it), which isn't possible through RGB.

Technically, RGB at 480p is possible with the ps2, however the TV would have to support both Sync On Green and 480p over the scart input (or using the VGA input with a passive converter). I'm not sure if there are any TVs that support 480p + SOG over scart, but VGA is definitely doable. Of course, since most TVs won't support 480i over VGA, boot menus won't be visible without a Force VGA mode, either through a modchip or software hack.

So yeah, 480p over component is the easiest method, but there are other options that don't require transcoders/scalers.

[Fudoh]

Best way to connect a PS2 to a XRGB-3 in a RGB cable indeed. I've also used 3rd party ones (the one from Snakebyte is nice) which have been way better than the official component or D-Terminal cable. This said, you can still use the PS2's component SIGNAL. I wasn't able to detect a huge difference between using the PS2's component or RGB setting. Using a component signal is preferable because it allows you to use 480p games as well without changing the cable or setting.

PS2 output setting: component (YUV)
XRGB GameIN input setting: component (YUV)
Connection cable: RGB Scart from PS2 Multi-AV to XRGB's GameIN

It's either that or running a component/D-Terminal cable through the XSelect-D4 first. A direct component/D-Terminal connection to the XRGB from the PS2 is too noisy, not neccessarily on 15khz games, but definitely for 480p titles.

[kamiboy]

Here is something I've been wondering while wading through your RGB's and components. If you take a 480p component signal and colour space convert it to RGB, would it be the same as VGA? I mean, VGA is 480@60, and 480p is 480@60, so the timings must be the same, right? So if you took, like say, the VGA signal from an XRGB and put it through a VGA to component converter of some sort would you get a 480p signal that TV's could accept?

They are both analogue signals with the same vertical sync frequency, so they should be interchangeable, or is there more to it than that?

[BuckoA51]

Any guide on how to utilize B2 mode? Seems too confusing to use

What the heck is B2 mode? I can't find any mention of it on the XRGB-3 wiki

[Fudoh]

Recent update which allows you to use the screen capture tool via USB from a Windows PC.

[RGB32E]

Here is something I've been wondering while wading through your RGB's and components. If you take a 480p component signal and colour space convert it to RGB, would it be the same as VGA? I mean, VGA is 480@60, and 480p is 480@60, so the timings must be the same, right? So if you took, like say, the VGA signal from an XRGB and put it through a VGA to component converter of some sort would you get a 480p signal that TV's could accept?

They are both analogue signals with the same vertical sync frequency, so they should be interchangeable, or is there more to it than that?

Effectively yes. However, RGsB from the PS2 gives slightly better color fidelity than component (RGsB referring to RGB output while in progressive mode). There are a number of units out there for transcoding between RGB(x) and component (and vice versa):

http://www.extron.com/product/product.a ... cvc300&s=5



The Extron CVC 300 works pretty well as do their RGB interfaces (for converting RGsB to RGBS, RGBHV, ect).

Depending upon the actual implementation, RGB should give better picture than component, but different levels, ect make this different for each scenario.

[HDgaming42]

Here is something I've been wondering while wading through your RGB's and components. If you take a 480p component signal and colour space convert it to RGB, would it be the same as VGA? I mean, VGA is 480@60, and 480p is 480@60, so the timings must be the same, right? So if you took, like say, the VGA signal from an XRGB and put it through a VGA to component converter of some sort would you get a 480p signal that TV's could accept?

They are both analogue signals with the same vertical sync frequency, so they should be interchangeable, or is there more to it than that?

Effectively yes. However, RGsB from the PS2 gives slightly better color fidelity than component (RGsB referring to RGB output while in progressive mode). There are a number of units out there for transcoding between RGB(x) and component (and vice versa):

http://www.extron.com/product/product.a ... cvc300&s=5



The Extron CVC 300 works pretty well as do their RGB interfaces (for converting RGsB to RGBS, RGBHV, ect).

Depending upon the actual implementation, RGB should give better picture than component, but different levels, ect make this different for each scenario.

I use an extron SCS 300 for my PS2. It works wonderfully.



http://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=scs300

I feed RGsB into it (via official component cables with RCA-->BNC adapters), and output RGBHV to an Optoma HD3000. I use HDTV Player to enable VGA resolutions, though you could use also GS Mode Selector.

My sniping tool freaked and won me three of them. I don't need three of them. If you're interested, PM me. I'd let it go for what I paid...

The quest for RGB gaming is a rocky road, but worth it in my eyes. Component comes close, but RGB (when working as it should) will outperform S-video hands down.

[kamiboy]

Those Extron converters sure do look fiercely expensive. When the dust settles from my recent CRT obsession and I see what display emerges from the mirage of options then I'll know wither I would even require a YUV to RGB converter or not. I'll PM you for negotiations then, thanks.

[RGB32E]

Those Extron converters sure do look fiercely expensive. When the dust settles from my recent CRT obsession and I see what display emerges from the mirage of options then I'll know wither I would even require a YUV to RGB converter or not. I'll PM you for negotiations then, thanks.

http://shop.ebay.ca/?_from=R40&_nkw=ext ... Categories

I've had to use some Extron devices with a NEC XM29 for sync processing. Composite video doesn't work as sync on the NEC presentation monitors... the drama continues...

[kamiboy]

You are indeed correct, after my decision fell on XM29 I fell over more than a few warnings from owners of that issue.

I'll suffice with S-video for now and aim to have all my cabling problems fixed by way of a simple XSELECT-D4 purchase. Compatible with my costly collection of JRGB21 cables and can do component to RGB and sync splitting to boot. Get it and hook it up directly to the XM29 via a simple cheap VGA to BNC cable and I should be set, at least in theory.

[BuckoA51]

simple XSELECT-D4 purchase

That's an oxymoron surely, considering how rare they seem to be!

[kamiboy]

A great deal many items of the rare persuasion have found their way into my possession. I am confident I can add a XSELECT to that lot sooner or later. Nothing is hard to find when you come to know the right nooks of the internet.

[Fudoh]

There are hard to find video-related items indeed. I've been looking for a Burosch Con-2 for nearly 4 years now without any luck. The Con-2 is very similar to the XSelect after all. Find me a Con-2 and you can have my XSelect

[kamiboy]

What is the going rate of a XSELECT these days anyway? 100? 150?

[Fudoh]

$150 seem fair and reasonable. $100 would be a real steal. Rarely seen auctions on Yahoo japan reach around 12,000yen

[kamiboy]

Sure is expensive, this hobby. But I figure once all the stars are aligned it will have been worth it. Looking forward to seeing how the XM29 is going to perform.

Too bad the overwhelming success of the horrendous display technology that is LCD made it so cost effective that it effectively killed all competitors like SED, FED and OLED in their infancy. FED is basically just a flatscreen CRT, a display like that combined with a XRGB might have been a viable replacement for ancient CRT tubes.

I am a fan of solving two problems with one solution, but LCD saw to that never happening, what with SONY stopping research and development on both FED and OLED a year or so back.

[SGGG2]

Any fix for this issue? My set up: Japanese Skeleton Saturn RGB Scart > XSelect VGA > XRGB > VGA HD monitor

The XRGB-3 turns into a distorted unreadable mess during the 480i title screen of Panzer Dragoon Zwei in B1 (it's wavy and distorted at the top in B0, but readable). There's rows of even vertical banding artifacts that go away for an instant when I change the v-sync lock. Turning on the low pass filter helps but blurs the image slightly. The only other games I have a have at the moment are NiGHTS and Christmas NiGHTS and there's no distortion there, Panzer Zwei works totally fine ran into the XRGB directly, but the colors are far more intense and contrasted when I use the Xselect.

EDIT: I was mistaken, the bands are present in Zwei no matter what. The title screen distortion only happens with the Xselect.

[Kretinou]

Just a question about the XRGB-2; does it work with a Neo-Geo console ?

[Ganelon]

Of course; any system is compatible with an XRGB. If you want RGB visuals with stereo, you have to have an RGB21 cable that sources sound from the headphone adapter though.

[Sargon]

$150 seem fair and reasonable. $100 would be a real steal. Rarely seen auctions on Yahoo japan reach around 12,000yen

The latest XSelect-D4 auction ended on Yahoo Japan this morning at 36,500yen. Figuring in shipping and any other fees, the total price would be well over $500. What are the chances Micomsoft will release another version of this box? Paying $500+ just doesn't seem reasonable at all.

[Fudoh]

this morning at 36,500yen

wow, seems like somebody really wanted this particular unit. I highly doubt that Micomsoft will do another run of these anytime in the future. It's actually not this difficult to built a good transcoder from scratch. Maybe that's a project Winni would pursuit after finishing the SLG3000 scanline emulator.

[kamiboy]

If the XRGB machines had an option to turn linedoubling off they'd all be YUV to RGB transcoders as well. I am not certain wither this is even technically feasible, but if it is then it sure is a somewhat annoying omission.

EDIT:
One other thought, do I remember correctly that the Flame Meister has several outputs, both RGB and YUV. Meaning, with a linedoubling off option, it would be a full on replacement for the XSELECT. OR perhaps I am wrong. Someone should put that wish to them, they seem like a reasonable enough bunch that they might actually do it.

[Sargon]

One other thought, do I remember correctly that the Flame Meister has several outputs, both RGB and YUV. Meaning, with a linedoubling off option, it would be a full on replacement for the XSELECT. OR perhaps I am wrong. Someone should put that wish to them, they seem like a reasonable enough bunch that they might actually do it.

I thought the Flame Meister only had an HDMI output, in which case it wouldn't suffice for those of us wanting to feed it into an XRGB-3.

[kamiboy]

Bah, humbug! You are right, I got my memories all in a jumble, thought the Meister sported a RGB, and a YUV output, but it only has HDMI. Nevermind then, it would be useless to any pure transcoding purpose.