Failed consoles

[Ed Oscuro]

It's always fun to talk about economic perspectives, but from mine...as long as I get games I want from a system, and it's not so badly supported that five years later you can't find controllers, it's not a failure for me. Heck, from my personal perspective the CD-i isn't a failure since it doesn't take up too much space for the games that are enjoyable

[neorichieb1971]

There are only a few awesome moments on DC for me. Crazy Taxi, Soul Calibur, RECV, Street fighter Zero 3.

Most of the games that came out promised so much and were godfully awful. I started buying stuff like Rayman 2 and that Dog game (same company that made MSR). I think there were a really good racing game with night and day tracks which was awesome. Even Daytona had shitty controls. The controller was a mess, the cable came out the wrong side of the controller, the Dpad was shite and the VMU or whatever was under used.

The game on the DC with the most play time is Mr Driller lol. I heard some of the RPG's were good but i'm not into those. It wasn't until the DC became a good shooter console that I took much notice after the PS2 started bringing out the Silent hill 2, MGS and so forth.

[dcharlie]

Even Daytona had shitty controls

terrible on a controller, but great on the wheel.

[Limbrooke]

Most of the games that came out promised so much and were godfully awful. I started buying stuff like Rayman 2 and that Dog game (same company that made MSR). I think there were a really good racing game with night and day tracks which was awesome. Even Daytona had shitty controls. The controller was a mess, the cable came out the wrong side of the controller, the Dpad was shite and the VMU or whatever was under used.

Lies! Daytona had touchy controls, with a controller and you could become adjusted. As such it was challenging but still fun and has a lot content (tracks, cars, modes, options, etc..) and looks great. Yes, it's not Arcade Daytona, which is what the base should've been but it's still damned good. Not to mention with a wheel, as can be said of almost any racing game, Daytona becomes even better (see: like Initial D Special Stage PS2).

I used to dislike the Dreamcast controller too but I've grown to like it and find it quite comfortable/of good utility. My one gripe is 4 face buttons; which nerfs a smooth transition for most 2D fighting games. VMUs are good if a little small sometimes (see: Shenmue) and even Sega corrected this with the official 4X Memory Card, albeit at the PONR. Any way it's sliced, Dreamcast is an outstanding system that should've lasted longer.

Actually, why would Sega even make the 32X itself with the PS1 so close (and the Saturn even a little closer)? I think this mistake sealed their fate as a hardware developer.
PS1 JPN -> 12/3/94
Sat JPN -> 11/22/94

DC Sega Rally 2 made me about cry, just as Daytona did on Saturn. These were inexcusable. Virtua Fighter 3 was decent if not exact- it probably would've been 1:1 if the development were kept inhouse and not rushed. At least DC Soul Calibur took a flying leap over both versions of VF3 visually.

Sega Rally 2 really gets my goat but at the same I've learned to deal with it. One of my favourite games on the Dreamcast and with such an improvement over the Model3 version in terms of sense of speed and handling. I experienced the Windows version first which runs at a blistering framerate and for all intents and purposes has everything DC has. Later, I learned of the problem. To combat this I overclocked a Dreamcast and while the variable fps isn't fully corrected, it runs better. Still, I could play it without a higher clock speed and it would just as fun. Combinations of rushing to be launch and having to use the WindowsCE architecture really took the bar down and it shows but the real fun can still be seen if you look beyond that. Like Daytona, Sega eventually offered an alternative but still shortcuts shouldn't have been made in the first place.

Don't understand the issue with Virtua Fighter 3tb as it's damn, damn accurate and looks great. The fact that Soul Calibur made the quantum leap from System12 to Dreamcast really overshadowed what was a very faithful port in 3tb (probably thanks to the delays).

Agreed in full on the 32X. Claims it helped the transition to the SH2 architecture on Saturn is overstated to be sure. Sega would've benefited by maybe even splitting the funding between Saturn and Sega-CD (70-30, something) than wasting time on 32X. The whole race from about 1992 onward is really hard to watch in hindsight, the impending doom isn't hard to see now.

[gameoverDude]

Most of the games that came out promised so much and were godfully awful. I started buying stuff like Rayman 2 and that Dog game (same company that made MSR). I think there were a really good racing game with night and day tracks which was awesome. Even Daytona had shitty controls. The controller was a mess, the cable came out the wrong side of the controller, the Dpad was shite and the VMU or whatever was under used.

Lies! Daytona had touchy controls, with a controller and you could become adjusted. As such it was challenging but still fun and has a lot content (tracks, cars, modes, options, etc..) and looks great. Yes, it's not Arcade Daytona, which is what the base should've been but it's still damned good. Not to mention with a wheel, as can be said of almost any racing game, Daytona becomes even better (see: like Initial D Special Stage PS2).

I used to dislike the Dreamcast controller too but I've grown to like it and find it quite comfortable/of good utility. My one gripe is 4 face buttons; which nerfs a smooth transition for most 2D fighting games. VMUs are good if a little small sometimes (see: Shenmue) and even Sega corrected this with the official 4X Memory Card, albeit at the PONR. Any way it's sliced, Dreamcast is an outstanding system that should've lasted longer.

Actually, why would Sega even make the 32X itself with the PS1 so close (and the Saturn even a little closer)? I think this mistake sealed their fate as a hardware developer.
PS1 JPN -> 12/3/94
Sat JPN -> 11/22/94

DC Sega Rally 2 made me about cry, just as Daytona did on Saturn. These were inexcusable. Virtua Fighter 3 was decent if not exact- it probably would've been 1:1 if the development were kept inhouse and not rushed. At least DC Soul Calibur took a flying leap over both versions of VF3 visually.

Sega Rally 2 really gets my goat but at the same I've learned to deal with it. One of my favourite games on the Dreamcast and with such an improvement over the Model3 version in terms of sense of speed and handling. I experienced the Windows version first which runs at a blistering framerate and for all intents and purposes has everything DC has. Later, I learned of the problem. To combat this I overclocked a Dreamcast and while the variable fps isn't fully corrected, it runs better. Still, I could play it without a higher clock speed and it would just as fun. Combinations of rushing to be launch and having to use the WindowsCE architecture really took the bar down and it shows but the real fun can still be seen if you look beyond that. Like Daytona, Sega eventually offered an alternative but still shortcuts shouldn't have been made in the first place.

Don't understand the issue with Virtua Fighter 3tb as it's damn, damn accurate and looks great. The fact that Soul Calibur made the quantum leap from System12 to Dreamcast really overshadowed what was a very faithful port in 3tb (probably thanks to the delays).

Agreed in full on the 32X. Claims it helped the transition to the SH2 architecture on Saturn is overstated to be sure. Sega would've benefited by maybe even splitting the funding between Saturn and Sega-CD (70-30, something) than wasting time on 32X. The whole race from about 1992 onward is really hard to watch in hindsight, the impending doom isn't hard to see now.

I enjoyed VF3tb on DC but had heard some gripes from people about it. Of course, they're probably picking over smaller graphic details. BTW, here's a link to some VF3 Saturn screenshots:
http://thesaturnjunkyard.blogspot.com/2 ... shots.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya1YXGkwRP4
Not bad I guess, even if it has nothing on the DC or arcade graphically. It would have ran at 30 FPS instead of 60 though.

If Sega did scrap 32X, that would've likely meant Virtua Racing Deluxe would've been on Saturn as a launch title to hold everyone over until Daytona. Thank goodness for Daytona CCE, which runs as good as Sega Rally 1 with a solid 30 FPS.

Now I'm wondering if the DC emulators (Makaron/Null DC) can be overclocked. Bumping up the processor to 600 MHz could very well take care of SR2 framerate woes.

[Limbrooke]

I enjoyed VF3tb on DC but had heard some gripes from people about it. Of course, they're probably picking over smaller graphic details. BTW, here's a link to some VF3 Saturn screenshots:
http://thesaturnjunkyard.blogspot.com/2 ... shots.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya1YXGkwRP4
Not bad I guess, even if it has nothing on the DC or arcade graphically. It would have ran at 30 FPS instead of 60 though.

If Sega did scrap 32X, that would've likely meant Virtua Racing Deluxe would've been on Saturn as a launch title to hold everyone over until Daytona. Thank goodness for Daytona CCE, which runs as good as Sega Rally 1 with a solid 30 FPS.

Now I'm wondering if the DC emulators (Makaron/Null DC) can be overclocked. Bumping up the processor to 600 MHz could very well take care of SR2 framerate woes.

Boy, I haven't seen the Saturn VF3 in some time. It's always nagged me to never see the game 'in-game' but what potential. It's a hard call to say but releasing it on Dreamcast may be the better sales-wise decision. As a release on Saturn, it would've probably say high atop the 3D fighting efforts, to be sure. Yeah, there are very finite complaints on 3tb as it's not 100% on some arenas and overall flow. That seems to be a common issue migrating from Model 3 though (as SR2 can be evidenced).

VRD would've been better received than the Time Warner Interactive Virtua Racing I imagine. Who knows, maybe Symphony of the Night would've been on Saturn first after all (since development of what became SotN was on 32X originally) and be far more polished.

Concerning the overclock in nullDC or emulation in general, why not settle for the 1999 Sega Rally 2 for Windows. No frame drops and runs smooth as can be.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Heck, from my personal perspective the CD-i isn't a failure since it doesn't take up too much space for the games that are enjoyable

Amstrad GX4000 sounds like your kind of console then as 25 games make for its ENTIRE library. I don't think it outputs NTSC, though. Some "regular" Amstrad computers also supported those carts and were backwards compatible. Reportedly even that poor sucker had at least one decent game - namely a good port of Pang.

[greg]

Putting consoles that never came to be on that list is a bit of a moot point. In that case, the Panasonic M2 was a bigger failure than the Panasonic 3DO, since at least the 3DO saw the light of day. The Neo Geo CD was more of a failure than the Neo Geo itself, and to put the Neo Geo on the list and ignore the Jaguar is silly.

damn i wish my local toy-r-us would of done the same,

I don't mean to be a dick, but you type "would've," not "would of." This is just a pet peeve of mine. It's okay for lolcats, but come on... this is basic English here.

[BrianC]

Putting consoles that never came to be on that list is a bit of a moot point. In that case, the Panasonic M2 was a bigger failure than the Panasonic 3DO, since at least the 3DO saw the light of day. The Neo Geo CD was more of a failure than the Neo Geo itself, and to put the Neo Geo on the list and ignore the Jaguar is silly.

Not to mention the Nuon, which is almost like a successor to the Jaguar with Tempest 3000 being one of the games for the system. AdventureVision is an interesting one since it only had like 4 or 5 games, had red and black graphics, and was an oversized "portable" ala Virtual Boy.

[kozo]

Blah

[neorichieb1971]

It doesn't matter how many games you liked on the system. It put Sega to bed.

[drauch]

The list isn't about "this system sucked because there were no good games on it". The consoles didn't do well on the market. We all know the Dreamcast is a great system and lots of good games were on it, so why is this being debated still?

[kozo]

The list isn't about "this system sucked because there were no good games on it". The consoles didn't do well on the market. We all know the Dreamcast is a great system and lots of good games were on it, so why is this being debated still?

Like I said, I knew I was preaching to the choir. My DC fanboyism must have clouded my judgment. Sorry for not adding pithy discussion to the topic.

[drauch]

The list isn't about "this system sucked because there were no good games on it". The consoles didn't do well on the market. We all know the Dreamcast is a great system and lots of good games were on it, so why is this being debated still?

Like I said, I knew I was preaching to the choir. My DC fanboyism must have clouded my judgment. Sorry for not adding pithy discussion to the topic.

Aye, fair enough. Not necessarily directed towards you, but that's what this thread has turned into, and the original topic point has been ignored. I'm just in a piss mood, I think.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

damn i wish my local toy-r-us would of done the same,

I don't mean to be a dick, but you type "would've," not "would of." This is just a pet peeve of mine. It's okay for lolcats, but come on... this is basic English here.

Ive always been abit of a crap speller, but I will admit my english and grammer has steadily gone from bad to worse due to posting on the internets.

Sega 32X should have been listed as a failed console. We never got to see any games that used the 32X CD's power. IMO, Fatal Fury Special should have been done on 32X CD instead of the 16-bit CD. The 32X CD combo has more RAM (10 Mbit?). A 32X cart/CD combo similar to Saturn KOF'95 could probably have done the trick.

Sadly, we got nothing but rehashed FMV titles for the 32X CD. What a waste.

Acording to this article about the history of Sega on a good gaming and culture blog http://perspectivesoflife.wordpress.com ... y-of-sega/ The 32x is the brainchild of Sega USA so i would guess it would much more popular in the west then Japan. Also as I said before sega usa was a loggerheads with Sega JPN and had one or 2 projects going to make a true 32bit console before the saturn and its designs were finalised. So the way I see it is due to the infighting between the 2 divisions sega brought about its own demise by prototying the N64 and PS1

[drauch]

There was a really good article in RetroGamer about 4 or so months back on the 32x, and how it was doomed from the beginning. And yeah, it could have--and did--have some good games in it's lineup, but really, it was just a terrible idea, and what I would call a most definite failed console.

[neorichieb1971]

Here is the latest breakdown of all figures.

I noticed the PS3 over take the 360

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/late ... 0-2010119/

* PlayStation 2: 120,000,000
* PlayStation: 102,000,000
* Wii: 74,000,000
* NES: 63,000,000
* SNES: 49,000,000
* PlayStation 3: 42,000,000
* Xbox 360: 41,000,000
* N64: 33,000,000
* Megadrive: 34,000,000
* Xbox: 24,000,000
* GameCube: 22,000,000
* Atari 2600: 14,000,000
* DreamCast: 11,000,000

[Ed Oscuro]

Heck, from my personal perspective the CD-i isn't a failure since it doesn't take up too much space for the games that are enjoyable

Amstrad GX4000 sounds like your kind of console then

Save me the condescension and re-read my post. The CD-i has GOOD games. Not many, but enough to make keeping around a box of jewel cases and a tote bag with the player.

I noticed the PS3 over take the 360

Oof, just in time for the PS3 to seem less relevant than it once did. I keep seeing stuff about excellent 360 games and the PS3 seems to have fewer and fewer awesome exclusives to balance that out.

[neorichieb1971]

Well mate it seems console wars are no longer about games. A failed console like the DC it seems can have lots of brilliant games and still put a company under. The PS3 has hardly any games worth buying (There are some) and it sells like hot cakes.

Lets get one thing straight though. The consoles of today use gimmicks like "slim" and colours. Gamers buy 2 or 3 of the same console per generation when they only used to buy one. Wether it be malfunctions, wear and tear or just stupidity.

The PS3 is more robust, pirate proof to a point (unless you want a dongle costing $150) and doubles up as blu ray player. So its quite unbelievable how it got where it is now. The only thing going against the 360 is peripheral prices and reliability. I don't want to talk about the wii. I don't know what muppets are buying that piece of crap.

[Kaiser]

Well mate it seems console wars are no longer about games. A failed console like the DC it seems can have lots of brilliant games and still put a company under. The PS3 has hardly any games worth buying (There are some) and it sells like hot cakes.

Lets get one thing straight though. The consoles of today use gimmicks like "slim" and colours. Gamers buy 2 or 3 of the same console per generation when they only used to buy one. Wether it be malfunctions, wear and tear or just stupidity.

The PS3 is more robust, pirate proof to a point (unless you want a dongle costing $150) and doubles up as blu ray player. So its quite unbelievable how it got where it is now. The only thing going against the 360 is peripheral prices and reliability. I don't want to talk about the wii. I don't know what muppets are buying that piece of crap.

Should I mention that polish XBLA (my country) is launching recently... rather 4 years after launch? Not to mention we're not GETTING any european content, we're starting like from scratch and we will get like only 5% of the EU marketplace. Now this is bullshit on M$'s side. Not to mention the yearly subscription costs around $70 here (250 in PLN) and we don't even have anything worthwhile in our marketplace (not to mention we can't DOWNLOAD stuff from EU marketplace if we choose the poland one because there's a fucking region lock!).

Now this is a sad reality here. However what managed to make sony products dominate the polish market? Nintendo's ignorance, you see back in late 80s, a polish company (I forgot how was it called) wanted to manufacture NESes legit in poland and distribute in our country however Nin said NO... infact instead of NESes, we started getting famiclones, from that company too. So basically all uncles, aunts etc. had a famiclone in Poland and barely anyone had a legit NES and i'm not kidding. So it is a no wonder when PSX appeared, it sold like hotcakes because it was accessible and so were it's games (of course we had some issues with censoring thanks to Germany!). And so it carried onto today. PS2 absolutely dominated the market like PSX. Not sure about PS3... however let me put it straight, 90% 360 users I know modded their console because they didn't care for online and I hear that many also modded their Wiis. Piracy is a plague here that can't be really dealt with.

AND HERE IS THE IRONY dear ladies and gentlemen, Nintendo and M$ are so desperate that they're trying to promote themselves here to take over the market sony stole due their idiocy. yes Nintendo which shit on us since the NES SUDDENLY WANTS US TO BUY THEIR STUFF, same for M$ which ignored us since Xbox 360 launch so we never had XBLA! If they weren't desperate for money, they would'nt have started doing stuff here. No way in hell they will take over this market unless Sony pulls a SERIOUS epic fail next generation that would push off many from them. I hear similiar shit is happening in more eastern countries in EUROPE.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Save me the condescension and re-read my post. The CD-i has GOOD games. Not many, but enough to make keeping around a box of jewel cases and a tote bag with the player.

It's okay. No matter how many of those 25 GX4000 games are GOOD, they can't possibly take too much space. It's probably the cheapest console to own every game ever released for it as well.

Nintendo's ignorance, you see back in late 80s, a polish company (I forgot how was it called) wanted to manufacture NESes legit in poland and distribute in our country however Nin said NO...

If there's even a hint of truth in the above statement, no wonder Nintendo wouldn't agree. I can't think of any deal that mysterious company could have possibly offered Nintendo that would be massively lucrative for the latter. NES was NOTHING like ZX Spectrum in terms of the business model. What Nintendo had in store back then was the sub-par hardware and extremely pricey games on carts. Their selling point was the quality of games and the storage medium rendering piracy unprofitable. Any possible license fee they could hope to gain from each NES unit and cart sold in Poland up until 1989 would be minuscule compared to what they used to earn on western markets, whereas that freeloader of a company would grow fat. When somebody offers you this kind of Hobson's choice, you just tell them to fuck off. Maybe they lost a head start on Eastern European markets because of that, but in the eighties nobody saw the events of 1989 coming.
Unless you are talking about the very 1989, which indeed was a good time to enter those markets. If that's the case, there's no denying Nintendo blew it.