Lack of PS3 Shmups

[neorichieb1971]

Geez that much. Shmups.com better get some more members.

It seems money is the only motivator then.

[THE]

Geez that much. Shmups.com better get some more members.

It seems money is the only motivator then.

If I need to sell my butt, I better get something worth out of it...

But seriously, if you guys want us to develop shmups for nextgen than the only thing you need to do is, going on http://www.ngdevdirect.com and purchase some games/merchandise...and if you like those games, tell your buddies, to buy them too...

If all 6045 members would purchase the Fastriker LE for DC we even could do a disc release on x360

[neorichieb1971]

If I win the lottery and can get the license I would want a PS3 Parodius in 1080 with all the charm of the original. I would pay your £500,000 up front if you supplied a screenshot of the final cut. I will show you how to make a shmup sell in mainstream numbers. I firmly believe (and cannot be budged) that this is all narrow mindedness based on historical views that shmups are outdated. But shmups still have selling factors and I believe Parodius is the one to move things along. You know in the past 10 years I've shown many girls the dancing ballerina Panda to ladies and they all asked me what game it was and where to get it. GIRLS of all people.

[burgerkingdiamond]

which Parodius is that? I have the PCB, but I don't know what the subtitle says cuz it's in Japanese. That ballerina Panda is creepy.

[neorichieb1971]

The remix one that launched as the deluxe pack on the PS1 in Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HExYocE6LIA Starts around 4:00.

[Kaiser]

The remix one that launched as the deluxe pack on the PS1 in Japan.

Don't you mean gokyjou parodius? Because Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius also had a panda but as a lame singer this time

[gray117]

There's not many people in charge of talent, let alone money, who actively want to make a shmup.

... Anything you do has a cost. And anything you do, you only have a certain number of staff.

THE makes the point that it isn't hard to do anything with the ps3; which I agree. With exception to a couple of dev platforms - its not often you'll get a solution as simple as choosing a button which compiles a perfect build. Furthermore, debugging is a constant issue with anything but the most locked down of projects; something that the 360 has provided for quite well indeed.

Given there was so much uncertainty with the ps3 upfront, it started a step behind on every area, making up that ground can be done, but you have to convince a producer its going to be worth the time/cost being taken away from another project.

It does baffle me why there are not more shmups on download. But again I presume this comes back to approval problems, licensing tie-ups, demands over sales numbers and franchise worth - it is a niche genre, on a still marginalised delivery platform...

On the physical side - aside from single disk cost I believe sony also requires [or at least used to] a much larger initial print run [again even more initial cost - which can flat out shut out smaller games/developers].

... I don't dispute its a shame... but I can see why this happens.

[burgerkingdiamond]

@neorichie
yeah thats the one I have. Too bad I won't be playing it any time soon cuz I tated my monitor. Its pretty sweet though

[neorichieb1971]

Yeah, I think the PS1 had full orchestral audio which was a bonus and added to the atmosphere a lot. Konami spent quite a bit on it I reckon at the time. It was one of only 3 games available at JP launch of the PS1 so therefore probably sold a few units more than usual. I know I wouldn't have bought it if it were not one of the recommended titles at the time. Glad I did though. I spent £80 on it. If my PS1 was setup now I would play it again, or my PS2 for that matter.

[manaka]

Regarding why shmups are all over the 360. Please note that it's only Japanese shmups.

And then you can see why... in Japan these guys are a tiny company, and they're in contact with one another in one form or another.

All it takes is one.
"Hey we're thinking of releasing for the 360."
MS: "Sure, we love more Japanese companies! We'll subsidize your licensing costs and help out with promotion!"
"Cool. And hey we didn't sell much worse than last gen either. I guess we'll stick around for a while."

"Did you guys hear, X released their shmup on the 360. I was talking to X, and they had good things to say about the deal and sales. Maybe we should try to release on the 360 too."

And then sometime later...

"Guys, all of the other shmup companies are releasing on the 360. It seems like they've set up a niche crowd on it. We don't want to be the only one left out, so lets go release on the 360 too."

And that is how they all ended up on the 360.

[gennss]

Regarding why shmups are all over the 360. Please note that it's only Japanese shmups.

And then you can see why... in Japan these guys are a tiny company, and they're in contact with one another in one form or another.

All it takes is one.
"Hey we're thinking of releasing for the 360."
MS: "Sure, we love more Japanese companies! We'll subsidize your licensing costs and help out with promotion!"
"Cool. And hey we didn't sell much worse than last gen either. I guess we'll stick around for a while."

"Did you guys hear, X released their shmup on the 360. I was talking to X, and they had good things to say about the deal and sales. Maybe we should try to release on the 360 too."

And then sometime later...

"Guys, all of the other shmup companies are releasing on the 360. It seems like they've set up a niche crowd on it. We don't want to be the only one left out, so lets go release on the 360 too."

And that is how they all ended up on the 360.

Sounds like that is what most likely happened.

[antron]

All it takes is one.
"Hey we're thinking of releasing for the 360."
MS: "Sure, we love more Japanese companies! We'll subsidize your licensing costs and help out with promotion!"

probably true.
so who was it, what was the game, what was the deal?

[Yoshino]

Even we can afford PS3 dev-kits.

But can you do anything with them?

As long as we accept the rules that Sony dictates, yes!
Some of which are: native fullscreen 16:9 (no border artwork crap), 720p and do not bother us to license your 2d crap for a disc release...

That's bullshit on their part though. It all boils down to money and damn politics, as usual...
Even on PS3, wasn't the latest COD game found to be like 600p, upscaled; yet it was advertised, and even LABELED as 720p on the box?

[cools]

How much about the PS3 was either BS on release or has slowly been made BS by Sony?

[neorichieb1971]

I don't think its a case of BS. When the devs are said and done they get the best compromise of fps, resolution and graphics at around 600p. Same as the 360. Its only the odd 1st party game that manages AAA graphics above 720p. For a shmup 1080p should be easier, especially if using polygons.

I would hazard a guess that the 2 most powerful consoles on the street are never going to be more than 5% deficient in power compared to the other. It just wouldn't be worth releasing something inferior unless of course like the Wii it had some gimmick that made it sell.

[manaka]

probably true.
so who was it, what was the game, what was the deal?

The world may never really know.

[MadScientist]

Lack of shmups? What about... Ace Armstrong vs. the Alien Scumbags!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXS-UPQpTmg

Erm... ok, maybe not.

[THE]

Lack of shmups? What about... Ace Armstrong vs. the Alien Scumbags!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXS-UPQpTmg

Erm... ok, maybe not.

People that don't purchase a x360 because they hate MS, deserve nothing better

[Last_Dancer]

The PS3 is a failure when it comes to niche games, but its only partially Sonys fault. Sony Japan is not the problem, the PS2 got many Compilations, old 2D games etc. even PS1+PS2 compilations or SNK Games rejected by Sony USA ,like the japanese Growlanser Collection (Growlanser1 PS1+Growlanser2+3 PS2 in a Bundle), or Mark of the Wolfes. Sony Japan is Publisher friendly! Sony USA not

Sure, the PS3 is harder to program, but so was the Saturn yet the Saturn got many Shooters.
Small companys like Compile, Nippon Ichi, Arc, Acquire or SNK are capable of making games for PS3, only Cave & Co. are not.

Lets face reality, the Xbox360 is dead in Japan, the PS3-Userbase is 6 Times larger and growing, the 360 userbase is declining, ignoring the PS3 is suicide, go talk to tri-ace or Namco, both companys got their ass kicked really hard, ignoring the PS3 was a huge mistake, Star Ocean is dead, Tales of.. is dead etc.
The Xbox360 was the "Home of J-RPG", but now almost all J-RPG are PS3 exclusive!
The Xbox360 is not a "Paradise" for Shooter, Senko DUO flopped really hard, so did Ketsui and every other Shooter except Death Smiles.
Cave won't switch platform, that's for sure, but I expect at least some ports of Raiden, Shikigami3 etc. in the future.

PS3, the first japanese console without disc based STG?? Keep dreaming

[neorichieb1971]

In sony's defense the amount of titles in total that are on the PS3 is quite low compared to the usual. If Sony opened the floodgates to everyone to release what they wanted you would get strange ratio of whats expected vs the not so expected. I think Sony are scared of getting flak over their advertising campaigns promising 1080p games and such and then delivering 15% of their catalog in the shmups category.

It makes sense.. They made their bed before the console was launched.

[Obiwanshinobi]

PS3, the first japanese console without disc based STG??

Sega Master System had no disc based shmups. Famicom Disk System had some, though.

[originalz]

The PS3 is a failure when it comes to niche games, but its only partially Sonys fault. Sony Japan is not the problem, the PS2 got many Compilations, old 2D games etc. even PS1+PS2 compilations or SNK Games rejected by Sony USA ,like the japanese Growlanser Collection (Growlanser1 PS1+Growlanser2+3 PS2 in a Bundle), or Mark of the Wolfes. Sony Japan is Publisher friendly! Sony USA not

Sure, the PS3 is harder to program, but so was the Saturn yet the Saturn got many Shooters.
Small companys like Compile, Nippon Ichi, Arc, Acquire or SNK are capable of making games for PS3, only Cave & Co. are not.

Lets face reality, the Xbox360 is dead in Japan, the PS3-Userbase is 6 Times larger and growing, the 360 userbase is declining, ignoring the PS3 is suicide, go talk to tri-ace or Namco, both companys got their ass kicked really hard, ignoring the PS3 was a huge mistake, Star Ocean is dead, Tales of.. is dead etc.
The Xbox360 was the "Home of J-RPG", but now almost all J-RPG are PS3 exclusive!
The Xbox360 is not a "Paradise" for Shooter, Senko DUO flopped really hard, so did Ketsui and every other Shooter except Death Smiles.
Cave won't switch platform, that's for sure, but I expect at least some ports of Raiden, Shikigami3 etc. in the future.

PS3, the first japanese console without disc based STG?? Keep dreaming

Damn M$! They corrupted the Japanese companies and forced them to release games on their system! Only care about the money, typical M$$$$$! NO LOYALTY!

[manaka]

I can't believe I'm going to take this post seriously...

go talk to tri-ace... Star Ocean is dead

Being timed exclusive for SO4 did nothing to hurt the brand. The game sold as much copies on the 360 as on the PS3 in Japan, so it was a win-win situation for tri-Ace. What did kill the brand was how awful the series has become outside of its combat system. Horrible plot, horrible characters, horrible all around.

The Xbox360 was the "Home of J-RPG", but now almost all J-RPG are PS3 exclusive!

Last I checked, most JRPGs are multiplatform now, not PS3 exclusive. Not counting the little niche JRPGs from small companies that matter as much on the PS3 as Cave does on the 360.

The Xbox360 is not a "Paradise" for Shooter, Senko DUO flopped really hard, so did Ketsui and every other Shooter except Death Smiles.

Talking out of our other hole again? How would you know what constitutes 'good' sales for a shmup? Well, clearly you don't, since you think Ketsui and Senko DUO failed.

[Last_Dancer]

All I can say: It has begun!!

Similiar to the PS2 and Dreamcast, the PS3 is now getting its first Port from a near-dead console (Xbox360), better late then never, and it will not be the last game!

Being timed exclusive for SO4 did nothing to hurt the brand.

Yeah, sure..SO3 sold over 600.000 in Japan, over 1,5 Million worldwide, SO4 barely made 300.000 in Japan and 600.000 worldwide, talk about success, not going multi from day 1 was tri-ace BIGGEST mistake, please remember, SO4 is ONLY for Xbox360

Last I checked, most JRPGs are multiplatform now, not PS3 exclusive. Not counting the little niche JRPGs from small companies that matter as much on the PS3 as Cave does on the 360.

Please check your facts, Tales of Graces is now also for PS3 and not 360, the 15th Anniversary Tales of Game will be PS3only, Ar Tonelico3, 2x Rorona, Ninokuni, Disgaea4,Zill'Oll Zero and theres even a new Wizardry Twin Pack on retail disc, coming only for PS3 in 2011

[t0yrobo]

What do jprgs even have to do with shmups? You aren't making a compelling argument, you're talking out of your ass. Either make a real point or quit trolling.

[manaka]

Stupid me, I thought if I took a troll seriously, he's be more serious and not resort to distorting facts to suit his agenda. Learned my lesson once again.

[BulletMagnet]

If this topic gets any more console-war-ish consider it locked, and posters who cause it reported to management.