X68000 from a shmuppers POV (New Pictures)

[Blue Lander]

I've been mucking about with my new games and I came across a pleasant suprise. In my original review I mentioned that the X68000 joypad has no pause button, and that most games pause when you hit the escape key on the keyboard. It turns out some games DO allow you to pause via the joypad if you use an FM Towns joypad.

The X68000's joypad port is compatible with MSX joypads. MSX joypads don't have pause buttons, though. The FM Towns also has a MSX compatible joypad port, so you can use MSX joypads with that system as well. However, joypads made specifically for the FM Towns do have start and select buttons while remaining pin compatible with the MSX joypad port. So you can use an FM Towns joypad with an MSX, but the start and select buttons are ignored.

X68000 games for the most part ignore the extra buttons, too. But some games don't, and do allow you to pause by pressing the start button. The only game I've come across with this feature is Castlevania. You have to enable the feature in the settings menu, though.

The vast majority of games I've tried don't support the pause button, but I doubt Castlevania is the only one that does. So if you do buy an X68000, you might want to get an FM Towns joypad to go with it. Even though it only works with a handful of games, it's very nice being able to pause without lunging for the keyboard and frantically searching for the escape key while trying to make sure your character doesn't die in the mean time.

Or, if you don't want to buy an FM Towns joypad, you can easily make one yourself. You can get the pinout from GameSX. I rewired a Sega Genesis controller to the FM Towns pinout, and all it cost me was 4 diodes.

[Turrican]

Awesome, thanks Blue. Man, anime and manga art never fails to please. I just love the simple sci fi/fantasy/storybook look of the Twinbee series. Has anyone here ever watched the OVA?

I'm looking for those OVA too. Whoever find 'em, please contact me via PM.

[Specineff]

How are afterburner and Thunderblade?

[Blue Lander]

Thunder Blade:
Hard for me to say, really, because this is the only version I've ever played. Is there another home version of this game I should be comparing it against? That being said, it seemed to play fine to me. The scaling effect is very smooth and fluid. There are some minor visual glitches sometimes, but for the most part it looks very nice. I can't say much more about the game because I only played it for a few minutes and I have nothing to compare it against.

The packaging is pretty unremarkable. It was ported by Sharp, so it comes in a dull gray box with dull gray disks and a dull gray manual. Other than that, nothing out of the ordinary except that the original price tag is 9,500 yen. I don't know how much that was in 1990, but by today's exchange rate that's roughly 95 dollars!

After Burner:
It's been a long time since I've played Afterburner, but this conversion seems spot on. Tomorrow I'll whip out the Sega Ages port and compare the two. The scaling looks nice, graphics are sharp, sound effects and music and voices are good, etc. One big problem: You can only control the game via mouse! There's no option to use a digital joypad. Maybe you can use an analog flight stick, but I don't have one of those. The game comes with an Afterburner mouse pad, though. I couldn't get too far in the game because my mouse is a little gunked up. Original price:9,200 yen.

[gigadrive32]

I've played many X68000 games including shmups and 3D shooters. the X68000 versions of most arcade shooters are pixel for pixel carbon copies or near-identical. this is the case when the original arcade game used a single 68000 CPU.

high powered Sega arcade Super Scaler games like AfterBurner II and ThunderBlade used twin 68000 CPUs plus scaling & rotation hardware, and these boards could push 256 sprites. this is more power than the X68000 has. as a result, the conversions of AfterBurner and ThunderBlade are technically around 50% of the arcade in terms of number of sprites, smoothness of scaling. actually the X68000 does not have scaling or rotation built into hardware. so it has to do 'software scaling' or redrawn sprites, kinda like the Genesis, but X68000 can do it alot smoother, to the point where it ALMOST looks like hardware sprite scaling.

AfterBurner II is not arcade-identical. it is kinda like the MD / Genesis version, only a bit better. it is no where near as graphically intense as the arcade. compare it to AfterBurner II arcade / mame / final burn or the versions on Saturn Sega Ages Saturn, Dreamcast Shenmue II, Dreamcast Yu Suzuki Gameworks vol 1. or Xbox Shenmue II, and you WILL see what i mean.
Overall X68000 ABII is a nice version of the game, it was programmed by Dempa, and i think this is the same team that did MD-Genesis AfterBurner II. from what Ive seen, the FM Towns version is closer to the arcade, but ive only seen still screens of it, not seen it in motion.

ThunderBlade - this seems closer to the arcade than AfterBurner II. the X68000 version is BY FAR the closest home version of the arcade that there is. Unless there is an FM Towns version that i dont know about. unlike the MD-Genesis 'Super Thunder Blade', X68000 TB is actually based exactly on the arcade, even though the software scaling is not QUITE as smooth as the arcade's true hardware scaling, and it is much smoother than the choppy software scaling in Super Thunder Blade. And it is also 10x better than the PC Engine ThunderBlade which is also based on the arcade, but scaled down tremendously because of the vast difference in performance of PC Engine vs System X (the ThunderBlade board same that runs ABII)

Overall, to the human eye, AfterBurner II on X68000 looks to be 1/4 to 1/3 the arcade's graphics. whereas ThunderBlade looks like 1/2 to 3/4th of the arcade. this is not a knock against the awesome X68000, this is just because of the reality that X68000 is not as powerful as Sega's high-powered Super Scaler arcade boards of the mid to late 80s, which had dual 68000 (or triple) CPUs plus extremely powerful scaling & sprite shifting chips. the X68000 is more comparable (in practice) to Capcom's CPS1 board, both lack scaling.

btw, Ive played Space Harrier on X68000 also. I'd say it's inbetween AfterBurner II and ThunderBlade as far as how close it is to the arcade. the software scaling is, again, alot closer than Space Harrier II on MD-Genesis, but overall the graphics & scaling are not on par with the 32X, Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox or Arcade/MAME Space Harrier, and actually now that i think of it, the GBA Space Harrier on Sega Arcade Gallery is smoother than the X68000 but then GBA has hardware scaling and a faster processor.

[Dylan1CC]

Jusat wanted to say I'm even more jealous, Blue. That is a nice gamg haul there!

[Blue Lander]

Thanks for the rundown on Thunderblade and After Burner II, gigadrive32. But I'm a little confused. The game I have is regular old After Burner, not After Burner II. The box just says "After Burner" and so does the game when it loads up. How does regular old After Burner 1 on the X68000 compare to regular old After Burner 1 in the arcades?

Jusat wanted to say I'm even more jealous, Blue. That is a nice gamg haul there!

Thanks! The jealousy of my peers makes the idiotic amount of money I've spent over the last month a little less painful. My spending spree is over for the year, though, but I think I have more than enough toys to keep me occupied for awhile. Between mastering Gradius 1, 2, Parodius, Detana Twinbee, and Image Fight, I should be busy for quite a bit. I would like to get a few more X68000 games before I quit throwing money around, though. Here's my "To buy" list:

Castlevania
Thunder Force II
Dive On (Really cool Blazing Lazers/Super Star Soldier style game)
Nemesis '90
Granada
Sol Feace

There's others I want eventually, too (Cotton, Darius, Angel Dive, Code Zero, Strider, Ghouls 'n Ghosts, etc) but I better pace myself. I also need to buy an extra megabyte of RAM, and I've yet to come across a source.

[gigadrive32]

you are correct Blue Lander. X68000 has AfterBurner I. what I said still applies though because AfterBurner I arcade has the same graphics as AfterBurner II arcade. the only major difference between ABI and ABII is the speed throttle & afterburners.

[Blue Lander]

Okay, that makes sense. It's hard to find information on After Burner 1, but it seems like it's just an earlier revision of After Burner 2 rather than a totally different game.

Speaking of X68000 games, does anybody know what kind of game Star Luster is? I believe it's by Namco. Is it a shmup?

[BrianC]

Okay, that makes sense. It's hard to find information on After Burner 1, but it seems like it's just an earlier revision of After Burner 2 rather than a totally different game.

Speaking of X68000 games, does anybody know what kind of game Star Luster is? I believe it's by Namco. Is it a shmup?

Yeah, what's really confusing is that the US NES version of After Burner is actually the Japanese After Burner 2 with slightly altered graphics and the voice removed. It even has the speed up feature of After Burner 2.

I'm not sure about the X68000 Star Luster, but the NES Star Luster is not a shmup. It's actually a Star Raiders like game with strategy elements and a first person view. The funny thing about Star Luster NES is that the title is often misspelled as "Star Juster" becuase of the way the title is written.

[captain ahar]

Thanks! The jealousy of my peers makes the idiotic amount of money I've spent over the last month a little less painful. My spending spree is over for the year, though, but I think I have more than enough toys to keep me occupied for awhile.

i feel that man, really. my tab for this past month is extending past $700 (financial aid refund is officially gone). no one in my area cares at all about what i bought (including Gradius Gaiden, Gunbird 2, and a killer Duo lot). anyway, i envy you. i would love to have all those computers. maybe i should just win the lottery? hmm... something ot think about i suppose.

[vek]

Hope you don't mind a quick diversion to the PC-8801 since it got a little mention already...

You don't happen to have Silpheed or Thexder, do you? I'm just curious as to how they compare to Sierra's PC ports. They ported Sorcerian as well actually, but I've not played it anywhere near as much as the other two. Probably because I've only had it a year or so, rather than errr 15 years or so

Well anyway, I certainly recommend them if you don't, based on the PC ports at least. Also Zeliard and Thexder 2: Firehawk, which Sierra also did, but I'm not sure if they were on the PC-8801 as well, or some other system.

[Blue Lander]

I'm not sure about the X68000 Star Luster, but the NES Star Luster is not a shmup. It's actually a Star Raiders like game with strategy elements and a first person view. The funny thing about Star Luster NES is that the title is often misspelled as "Star Juster" becuase of the way the title is written.

Hmm, both are made by Namco, so I bet they're the same game. I like Star Raiders, but I bet Star Luster is difficult to play if you don't understand the language.

i feel that man, really. my tab for this past month is extending past $700 (financial aid refund is officially gone). no one in my area cares at all about what i bought (including Gradius Gaiden, Gunbird 2, and a killer Duo lot). anyway, i envy you. i would love to have all those computers. maybe i should just win the lottery? hmm... something ot think about i suppose.

After I got the X68000 stuff, I went to a few people I know locally who are casual shmup fans to brag about it. When I mentioned the X68000, the response was always "What's that?" Every time I run into so-called "hardcore gamers" and try to talk about PC Engine games or shmups in general, I'm always greeted with blank stares. One of these days I need to go to a shmup meet so I can feel what it's like to have a two-sided conversation about shmups!

None of the stuff I bought was all that expensive. It's the shipping from Japan that often costs several hundred dollars. Somebody ought to build a bridge across the pacific so I can just go pick this stuff up myself.

You don't happen to have Silpheed or Thexder, do you? I'm just curious as to how they compare to Sierra's PC ports. They ported Sorcerian as well actually, but I've not played it anywhere near as much as the other two. Probably because I've only had it a year or so, rather than errr 15 years or so

Well anyway, I certainly recommend them if you don't, based on the PC ports at least. Also Zeliard and Thexder 2: Firehawk, which Sierra also did, but I'm not sure if they were on the PC-8801 as well, or some other system.

Nope, I didn't get either of those games. I have played Thexter on an emulator, though, and it seems to be identical to the PC version although I haven't played that one since grade school. You can get the disk image from JCEC's web page (I'd post the link but I don't want to break any forum ROM rules) and try it out yourself. I don't know if they have Silpheed or not, though.

Here's a fun fact about the PC-8801: No joystick support! That's right, you've got to play the games via keyboard. I don't have a keyboard yet (I thought I could get away without one), so I can't play any of the PC-88 games I got. Once I do, I'll start a "PC-8801 from the shmupper's point of view" thread.

As for Zeliard, I'm getting that for the Sharp X1. It looks pretty cool, and I think the X1 is a little better suited for shmups than the PC-8801 is.

Speaking of Sorcerian, is anybody here a big fan of the series? I got Sorcerian and one of the scenario add-ons, and it comes with some very nice illustrated cards with artwork from the game. I can upload them if anybody's interested.

[vek]

aha, found it, thanks
can't seem to get it working right now though, and it's almost 3am so i think i'll leave it for tomorrow.

strange about the lack of joystick support though!

[gigadrive32]

pictures of X68000 ThunderBlade - AfterBurner - Space Harrier


















X68000 Space Harrier Box

[Blue Lander]

Well, last night I beat Gradius 1 on the X68000. Then today, I beat Gradius 1 on the PC Engine. And for an encore, I beat Nemesis on the Gameboy. None of those are difficult games, but I'm of the school that you shouldn't review a game until you've beaten it. So now I feel qualified to compare and contrast Gradius X68000 and Gradius PC Engine.

The first difference is playing screen size. In the PC Engine version, the playing field's vertical size is slightly too large to fit on the screen, so it has to scroll a little. If you're at the bottom of the screen you can't see the very top of the screen and vice versa. I didn't find myself dying or anything because of this, if anything it game me more room to manuever and made the game a bit easier. The playing field fits just fine on the higher resolution X68000, so there's no vertical scrolling. Of course, most Gradius levels have parts where there's supposed to be vertical scrolling, and both X68000 and PC Engine versions do that just fine. Otherwise the graphics in both seem about the same. Both have a large enough color pallete and both have high enough resolution so that no detail is lost. Explosions look a bit nicer in the X68000 version, though, otherwise I didn't notice any difference.

As a side note, X68000 Gradius has two different screen resolutions. 15khz, which looks like you're playing on an arcade monitor, and 24khz, which looks like you're playing on a VGA monitor. I don't mean it adds scanlines like some emulators do to make it look like 15khz, it actually changes the screen frequency. I use 24khz because it's the default and it looks a bit nicer, but 15khz would be more authentic.

The biggest difference between these two ports is slowdown. There is no slowdown at all from start to finish in the X68000 version. Period. Even if you have four options and lasers and there's a zillion bullets on screen, you don't get even a twitch in gameplay speed. PC Engine Gradius, as most people know, has quite frequent slowdown. Especially when you have a lot of options, and especially if you've got lasers. This makes PC Engine Gradius a much easier game. In tough spots where there's a zillion bullets being shot at you, the game slows down and you can dodge and weave between them with ease. Two examples I noticed are the Moai heads in level 3 and certain parts of level 4 where there's a ton of enemies walking along the top and bottom of the screen. These parts are a cinch in the PC Engine version because the game slows to a crawl, but you get no reprise in the X68000 version.

Incidentally, I found a way to capitalize on slowdown. If you've equipped the lasers and have a few options, if you turn on turbofire them on your joypad, the game slows down even more. The built in turbofire control on the PC Engine joypad makes it an easier game.

Another factor that makes the PC Engine version easier is that certain parts are scaled back. The mini-boss in level 3, those big spheres that shoot three smaller spheres at you, is a good example. There's much fewer of them in the PC Engine one, making it a snap to get through. You also benefit from some slowdown. The mini-boss in level 4 is also scaled back, there's only one.... uh, thing at the top of the screen launching ships at you rather than two. And that large array that comes out near the end of the final level and traps you between lasers stays out for a much shorter duration than in the X68000 version.

There is one part of PC Engine Gradius that's more difficult. Your shields are far more sensitive to hitting background objects. If you so much as brush part of the background with your shield in the PC Engine version, your shields start to shrink. The X68000 version seems more forgiving

So difficulty (or lack thereof) is a major difference between the two versions. After beating the X68000 version, which was quite an ordeal, I picked up the PC Engine version and beat it the first time through, only dying twice on the last level. The PC Engine also behaves differently in certain parts than the X68000 version. Take the boss you fight at the end of every level. If you're using lasers, you shoot him 5 or 6 times and then all (or most) of the barriers explode all at once. In the X68000 version, as you shoot the barriers they blow up one at a time. There are other differences that I mentioned previously when talking about differences. Some are because the PC Engine just doesn't have the processing power to implement the arcade version perfectly, others seem to just be from a lack of attention to detail. Since the X68000 uses the same CPU the arcade hardware does, the X68000 port probably uses most of the same program code. Since the PC Engine has a different processor, it probably had to be completely rewritten from scratch, and some minor details of the game were altered.

The PC Engine version does stand out in one way, though: Extras! You get the extra level (level 5, I think?) This isn't in the arcade or X68000 version. No point in explaining a level you've all probably played, but I thought it was pretty cool. It makes the PC Engine version worth having even if you've got a better version. The other major difference is the ending. In the X68000 version, after killing the final boss the base explodes, and you're back to level one again for the second loop. The ending lasts all of one or two seconds, you'd miss it if you blinked. The PC Engine version has a lenghthier animation of the base blowing up, followed by credits, followed by the second loop.

Is the extra level and ending worth all the slowdown and lower difficulty? Hard to say. I think any serious Gradius fan ought to have the PC Engine version for the extras and an arcade-perfect version (like the Gradius collection on the Playstation/Saturn or the X68000 version) for the extra difficulty and because the PC Engine version misses some details. Both are really fun, and I don't really consider PC Engine Gradius to be an inferior game. PC Engine Gradius isn't a good substitute for the real deal, but it has it's own merits that make it worth playing.

Now for the pictures....

Gradius came packaged with the X68000 when it came out. So there's no box, it just came in a plastic sleeve with the Operating System disks. There isn't really a manual per se either, just a section of one of the manuals with a brief black and white overview of the game. Pretty lame compared to later Konami releases that had all sorts of cool extras. Like these...

[Tychom]

i don't suppose you could take some pics of the star trader box or any interesting internals

It's a game i've been looking to get, but mainly due to some of the art i've seen and there's none on yahoo right now

have you tried it out yet?

[Blue Lander]

I'd be happy to take some pictures of Star Trader this afternoon. I comes with a ton of cool extras. I haven't been able to play it because I have the PC-8801 version, and I can't play any of my PC-88 games until I get a keyboard for it. As I understand it, the main difference between the PC-88 and the X68000 versions (besides graphics) is that the PC-88 one is a hybrid RPG/shmup, whereas the X68000 is pure shmup.

[captain ahar]

could you post some in game screens of Gradius on the X68000? by the way, i am working under the assumption that Gradius is different than Nemesis '90 (which is reviewed in Xenocide files). thanks.

[Blue Lander]

Today or tomorrow I'll take some screenshots from the different versions of Gradius (X68000,arcade,PC Engine, NES, etc) so you can compare and contrast. Nemesis '90 is actually a remake of Gradius 2 MSX.

As for Star Trader, I took two pictures of the stuff that comes with it. Since this thread already has a buttload of images in it, I'll just put links to them.

Picture 1. The big orange sheet on the left is a catalog of Falcom music CDs, mouse pads, stationary, books, shirts, keychains, and so on. Most of it's for Sorcerian and Ys, but some is for Star Trader. Above that is the manual, which is very nicely illustrated. Next to that is a Falcom magazine. It's got cartoons about Falcom games, advertisements for Falcom games, interviews with Falcom musicians, a Star Trader comic, and a "short story" about who knows what. Next to that is a registration card, and next to that is a set of Star Trader stickers. In the second row, there's an advertisement for something, I don't recognize what game, and next to that is the box itself.

Picture 2. This is the big huge Star Trader map. I don't know what purpose it serves, I guess I'll find out once I play the game.

[Specineff]

Thanks for the Space Harrier and After Burner shots. Harrier looks like's gone through the Atkins diet lately.

[gigadrive32]

Gradius on X68000, PS1 and Saturn are all basicly arcade-perfect as far as I know. the PC Engine version, is not. in some ways, the PC Engine version is better, and in some ways, it is worse. as far as graohics & audio. the X68000, Saturn and PS1 versions are all based on the 1985 coin-op arcade. whereas PC Engine version is a newer version. (even though the Saturn and PS1 Gradius came out after the PCE Gradius). I like the color better in the PCE version, but that does not mean Gradius on PCE is arcade perfect, because it clearly is not. the audio alone ensures that PCE Gradius is not arcade perfect. being an exellent translation and arcade-perfect are two totally different things. just my thoughts.

[Blue Lander]

It certainly isn't arcade perfect, but they did a good job getting as close as they could with the technology they had. My only real complaint is the rampant slowdown.

Because I'm on a Gradius binge, I went ahead and beat the NES version last night, too (man, my thumbs hurts). This is so different from the arcade version there's no point even comparing them. It's more like Gradius Jr. than a port of the arcade game. A lot of stuff is missing, and a lot of the levels are almost totally different from their arcade counterparts. That's not to say it isn't a good game, though. It's not as fun as the other versions, but one thing it has over the PC Engine port is that it's more difficult. Although one easier feature is that your shields seem to protect you from getting hit from any side, not just the front. There's no slowdown until the stage with the brains with those tentacle thingies. The NES version doesn't have an extra level, either.

The NES version does have a couple neat new features, though. For one, there are bonus points hidden throughout the level in hard to get to areas. Like if you go between that mountain with a hole in it in the first level, you get 5000 points. Second cool feature is that if you beat the first boss really quick, you get to skip level two. You fly through this area with a bunch of translucent moai heads floating around and end up in level three.

Next version of Gradius to beat: MSX

[SheSaidDutch]

Sorry again for resurecting a topic But I'd rather post here than make a new thread.

Basically I was wondering what the best emulator is for the X60K?

Is It really hard to set-up (as indicated onthe Xenoside files)

and of course english documentation If needed.


I'm intriqued by this system

[SheSaidDutch]

Blue Lander any chance of posting some screenshots of the hori section's of ThunderForce 2?

I was thinking surely If the muti-directional stage shows those differences, what does the hori sections look like.

[Kollision]

Wow!!!! Now this what I call necroposting!
The reason I'm doing this is to thank all involved in this thread for clearing all doubts I had about the x68k.

This thread should be turned into a full article feature or something.

[Ed Oscuro]

X60K?

eh what's that

I always liked Win68KHighSpeed, the English version, if that's what you meant.

[oli_lar]

I've done an article on getting started with X68000 emulation, along with a couple of reviews of shooters.
Here:
http://www.thiskidplaysgames.com/index. ... &Itemid=25

[dave4shmups]

Okay, that makes sense. It's hard to find information on After Burner 1, but it seems like it's just an earlier revision of After Burner 2 rather than a totally different game.

Speaking of X68000 games, does anybody know what kind of game Star Luster is? I believe it's by Namco. Is it a shmup?

Yeah, what's really confusing is that the US NES version of After Burner is actually the Japanese After Burner 2 with slightly altered graphics and the voice removed. It even has the speed up feature of After Burner 2.

I'm not sure about the X68000 Star Luster, but the NES Star Luster is not a shmup. It's actually a Star Raiders like game with strategy elements and a first person view. The funny thing about Star Luster NES is that the title is often misspelled as "Star Juster" becuase of the way the title is written.

Didn't know that about the US NES version of After Burner. Star Luster ROCKS!!

@Blue Lander, where did you get your X68000 computer?? Do you live in Japan, and do you have to know Japanese to get the games to load??

[Magic Knight]

You can use the XE-1AP on both After Burner II and Star Luster:
http://kikux68k.hp.infoseek.co.jp/x68k_khard15.html

It also works on the MSX, Mega Drive, FM Towns etc., and if you have the additional XHE-3, you can use it on a PC Engine (Afterburner II, Forgotten Worlds, Outrun, Operation Wolf).

After Burner II's quite cheap on X68000 (I'm selling one as I have two), but Star Luster's quite expensive and harder to get. Requires 2MB of memory and supports MIDI.