Is Border Down a bit rubbish?

[pooch]

Why spend such an elaborate figure on merchandise without beforehand ensuring it's what you wanted?

But... pirating is naughty! (I'm aware that buying a defunct game second hand is no better)

Played the arrange mode last night and that was quite exciting.

It's funny that you all single out the 3rd boss as a difficulty spike, because I find the second boss hard enough and haven't even reached the stage 3 boss yet. I think that second boss is particularly frustrating for me because it's not even a heart-pounding or awe-inspiring encounter that kills me, its rather flat and lifeless and yet I die all the time anyway. I am also aware that I can't blame the game for me being so rubbish.

Quickly watching a superplay and seeing how the break laser is used helped as well, but as a core scoring hook it seems like it'll never be that exciting or fun. But then, it seems like more of a traditional shooter anyway.

[Elixir]

How did you get that out of...

I was in no way implying or suggesting that you should pirate anything.

There are superplays, reviews, gameplay vids and this entire forum which enable you to form an opinion before a purchase.

[Austin]

I purchased this the week it came out and thought it to be severely underwhelming. It has some high points (such as nice visuals) but it's low points were no-gos for me when it comes to shmups (elevator music? No thanks).

I got rid of it shortly after (Probably put it towards Psyvariar 2, one I did enjoy), so I didn't give it enough time to discover whatever "deep" system may or may not have been in it.

[pooch]

How did you get that out of...

I was in no way implying or suggesting that you should pirate anything.

There are superplays, reviews, gameplay vids and this entire forum which enable you to form an opinion before a purchase.

Ah - I probably assumed you meant that because apple arcade explicitly said it earlier in the thread. Truth is, I spend dull periods at working reading little every review I can find on games I own or want to own. I watched a short clip on youtube, which made it seem exciting, but didn't want to spoil it.

I do wonder if the fact its horizontal is having any effect (and particularly on me being rubbish). I have read on here that horzies can be harder to 'see' than verts. But I'm determined to stick with it, a bit longer at least. If the music doesn't send me mad.

[clp]

But then, it seems like more of a traditional shooter anyway.

In todays enviroment this basically means its actually difficult unlike the " modern" shooters lol touhou which give the illusion of being difficult without really being that difficult.

[gray117]

I liked it, and I regret selling it, but it never got played at one point and prices were good... Its a fairly unique game. Some elements are a little bland; but it looked good in general and I liked its kind of universe.

If I remember; there was no free credit mode though was there? Which always meant I was loath to fck about with the borders and try out different approaches - I think that's what ultimately curtailed my interest.

The price thing is annoying; but I presume that's simply the curse of a late very low print run rather than game excellence. This kind of game would be great on download - perhaps if/when those fabled dreamcast dl deal comes to fruition and there's an easy port process ready made for g-rev, otherwise its probably fairly forgotten.

We'll see what g-rev is up to next - I'd much prefer the border down vein of play/thinking/style to some of their recent exploits.

[KindGrind]

Like DEL, Antares and others, Border Down is the best out there for me. I don't really know why and how I got to play the game this much... absurd dedication like no other I've had with a shmup. I needed literally months of daily play before I started to see results, and I know for a fact I'll never get through the last boss ever, or even beat DEL's unreal score for that matter. Sure, it's expensive, a ton of points are scored on one boss in particular, and yeah, it's punishingly unforgiving. Yet no other shmup gave/still gives me the kind of satisfaction I get playing it.

[antares]

To answer the question about a Superplay: Superplays for all stages are on the GD but you have to unlock them first. Can't remember if they are unlocked after some time or if you have to play the respective stages before the superplay gets unlocked.
G.Revs other DC game Under Defeat also has Superplays for both loops on the disc.

[Mikey]

If I had nothing else to play, I suppose Border Down would just about entertain me. Otherwise, it's just plain, ugly, or laughable, like the stage 2 boss that plops to the floor! Everything seems to take too long, and you've got those border down restart points and squeaky music to annoy you.

[antares]

You just don't understand

[DEL]

KindGrind wrote;

Like DEL, Antares and others, Border Down is the best out there for me. I don't really know why and how I got to play the game this much... absurd dedication like no other I've had with a shmup. I needed literally months of daily play before I started to see results, and I know for a fact I'll never get through the last boss ever, or even beat DEL's unreal score for that matter. Sure, it's expensive, a ton of points are scored on one boss in particular, and yeah, it's punishingly unforgiving. Yet no other shmup gave/still gives me the kind of satisfaction I get playing it.

Like Randorama I had a bit of a hiatus go-slow period in the late 90s but Border Down had what it took to bring me back to operational status. Its not for everybody, its for people who appreciate a mix of small hitbox, HORI, oldskool memorization and new scoring engine based play. Basically its more of a thinking man's shooter than a pick up and blast.
But I've said all this before.
The game itself is tight. There can be no cheating your way to a large score.
I once said that having 6D-ALL at the end of your name is better than BAHons, BSCHons, PHD

[Battletoad]

G.Revs other DC game Under Defeat also has Superplays for both loops on the disc.

Where can I find these?

[kid aphex]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elaborate

[antares]

G.Revs other DC game Under Defeat also has Superplays for both loops on the disc.

Where can I find these?

Somewhere in the Replay Options. You can load your own replays or load the superplays that are already on the disc.

[evil_ash_xero]

It's no G Darius, but it's good. Music is weird.

[Square King]

I actually really dug the music...kinda refreshing for the genre. It's covered in cheese at points, but had it been generic techno uhhn-tss, I would've stopped playing earlier than I usually did.

[pooch]

For sale: Border Down (Limited Edition)

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=33548

[Kron]

Border Down is fucking terrible for what it costs.

When you buy "rare" games you'll always be disappointed 9 times out of 10.

Honestly the Dreamcast doesn't have many amazing shooters. They're all "okay" games that cost way too much, so most people hold them up on a pedestal to defend their purchase.

This is a retarded comment because alot of us bought these games on release for the original RRP, You have no discerning ability to judge anything if money is your main criteria.

Border Down is the game that got me back in the genre, The atmosphere the variation and the sheer design is leagues ahead of anything else. Its an absolute masterpiece if you're one the people who click with the scope of the game. Gradius 5 is fantastic but isn't fit to lick BD's boots.

[Square King]

Gradius 5 is fantastic but isn't fit to lick BD's boots.

This is a retarded comment

...

I realllly like Border Down, but you're on thin ice, yo.

[Rai82]

Never played Border Down before, but this looks oh so amazing to me (video of Stage 6-B and the final boss).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBwwnLp9 ... re=related

[Smraedis]

Is Border Down a bit rubbish?

I don't know, what do you think?

[clp]

Never played Border Down before, but this looks oh so amazing to me (video of Stage 6-B and the final boss).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBwwnLp9 ... re=related

The music is so god damn amazing and the amount of atmosphere this game has is just stunning . I may suck balls at borderdown but theres no doubt in my mind that it is one fine game.

[DEL]

Thanks for the ST6B vid Rai82. Must be a recent addition to Youtube. I remember how nasty it was. The player ends up with 1mil more than my 6D-ALL score.
The ST6B route is weird/hard to get to. The border composition to trigger it is fine-line. I think Rando's Strat has a ST6B route in it. I used to get there in the early days by chance. But once I started going Red from the start, I never saw it again.

[KindGrind]

Badass. Man this game is good. Watching the vid makes me want to buy the game back...

[Obiwanshinobi]

The ships may be ugly, but it's a kind of high concept ugliness, like in the original Psyvariar ("let us try how ugly mecha design can possibly be"). The ships in Mars Matrix, on the other hand, are plain ugly ("let us make the ships as ugly as in that film starring Arnold Schwarzenegger").
Actually I don't think it was any high concept, and what little Border Down I saw was mainly desperately metallic grey, whereas Psyvariars deliver some primitive colourful eye candy in form of the backgrounds and the "tribal", insect-like texturing (butchered by the filtering, upscaling and deflickering in the PS2 port) gives the bosses in Psyvariar sort of personality. No such luck in Border Down, but I kind of like the look of some stages. I've only seen it on YouTube, though. On a CRT TV Thunder Force V looks nowhere near as bad as on YouTube, so Border Down might be a similar case.

[Skykid]

Gradius 5 is fantastic but isn't fit to lick BD's boots.

If you say that shit in a dream you better wake up an apologise.

[louisg]

Gradius 5 is fantastic but isn't fit to lick BD's boots.

If you say that shit in a dream you better wake up an apologise.

No, I totally agree with Kron

[DEL]

louisg wrote:

Kron wrote:
Gradius 5 is fantastic but isn't fit to lick BD's boots.

Skykid wrote

If you say that shit in a dream you better wake up an apologise.

No, I totally agree with Kron

I totally agree with Kron also.
Gradius V looks pretty stunning visually, but it has no scoring engine. It is the old 'go the distance to score' thing Scoring-wise it is as basic as the 1985 arcade original. (Don't worry, I like the whole Gradius series )

Border Down has some visceral effects from the break laser but is overall not as pretty as Gradius V. But judging a shoot'em up just on its looks......for example:

The ships may be ugly, but it's a kind of high concept ugliness, like in the original Psyvariar ("let us try how ugly mecha design can possibly be"). The ships in Mars Matrix, on the other hand, are plain ugly ("let us make the ships as ugly as in that film starring Arnold Schwarzenegger").
Actually I don't think it was any high concept, and what little Border Down I saw was mainly desperately metallic grey, whereas Psyvariars deliver some primitive colourful eye candy in form of the backgrounds and the "tribal", insect-like texturing (butchered by the filtering, upscaling and deflickering in the PS2 port) gives the bosses in Psyvariar sort of personality. No such luck in Border Down, but I kind of like the look of some stages. I've only seen it on YouTube, though. On a CRT TV Thunder Force V looks nowhere near as bad as on YouTube, so Border Down might be a similar case.

is not what matters.
Where Border Down scores against Gradius V is that it has a modern scoring engine and the tight design of the lives based on 3 Borders, which does not allow cheating. A lot of people here also prefer 1 loop as against multiple loops. BD is only about 40-45mins to the ALL. Gradius V is almost twice that per loop and you're playing for survival as against constantly trying to make the most out a scoring system (which engages your brain more). The result is that Border Down is overall more constantly intense and adrenaline-filled.
tviks will argue otherwise and will bring up the relevant point that Gradius V also gets very intense on the later loops. But you'll have to play more than 1.5hrs into GV to start to experience that. It started to grate on me when my credits started to hit 3.5hrs. God Knows how tviks was feeling after a week-long 15 loop credit

[clp]

Yeh i have to agree on gradius V its amazing but was it really necessary to include so many loops? + i prefer gradius gaiden .

[Obiwanshinobi]

I did not judge Dorder Down just on its looks. I judged THE looks. For the record, I don't think all that much about the looks of Gradius V. It's one of my favourite shmups and there is nothing wrong with it's graphics, but even ugly as hell R-Type Delta had more, um, personality (I could use a less corny word for it).