Shooting or Dodging?

[Blue Protoman]

Do you like traditional shmups that which emphasize shooting, or do you prefer newer ones with more bullets to dodge at any given time than your paycheck in dollars?

I myself prefer traditional ones. I've no problem with danmakus (bullet hell, manics, etc.), I just prefer classic ones.

[Wenchang]

I prefer dodging but only slightly, I like games with a decent amount of both. I always felt like the actual shooting was more fun and interesting in Raizing games than in most of their contemporaries, which is one of the reasons I like those games a lot.

[captpain]

I don't think this distinction exists.

[devilmanozzy]

I'm a old schooler and all theses new games with all the pink bullets on the screen just don't interest me. I like game that have more time spent on the bosses and maneuvering and figuring out how to beat things. Patterns of bullets gets old quick.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I don't think this distinction exists.

Imo it does, for example space invaders with it only allowing you to shoot 1 bullet on the screen at any time is more about shooting then dodging. As time progressed and the genre evolved including giving the player ship more and more fire power, shmups changed from shooting and dodging to where we are now with bullet hell / touhou dodging and firepower sometimes filling nearlly all the screen which is by far dodging over shooting

Personally i tend to think of a shooter shmup been pre autofire, in gradius 1 for example you fire 1 bullet for every button press, so that you had to time your preeses just right if you wanted to hit a popcorn with just one shot. Thats why using autofire in Gradius changes the gameplay aswell as making it a damn sight easier to beat.

So if you didnt undersatnd the question just think of what type of shmups you prefer. compile and cave shmups with lots and lots of fire power or proto shmups and games where you use a peashooter

For voting ild say both (and since theres no tickbox for that ill sustain from voting) even though i by far play bullet hell most of the time i really love shooting in gradius or any space invader game and its remakes (Space Invader 95 with its cute em up graphics a damn good game)

[apple arcade]

I enjoy a balance of both.

I must say I enjoy the cave games the most because they typically add some sort of value for memorizing bullet patterns beyond the typical reward of survival. Games like ESPGALUDA 2 where the more bullets you get on the screen, the more points you can cash in for.

On the other hand, I enjoy blowing shit up just as much as the next shmup fan.

[esreveR]

Shoot first. Dodge later.

If you're good enough there will be nothing to dodge. (Quick shot!)

[agustusx]

i guess I'm ALWAYS shooting, so what makes it interesting to me is deciding what to focus on and with what type of shot. Dodging is of course part of the fun, but I don't mind simply bombing through when allowed. (Particularly in games where you replenish your bomb stock quickly)

Truth be told if the game was good enough I could play a game with only shooting or dodging. I think I've played a few dodging only games and I don't think they stuck to me, but it's possible (maybe).

If no dodging was required (because you had no way to die, eliminating the survival element) then the scoring distinction would come exclusively from who killed what best . In order for this to be fun it would have to be time limited or have some other way to terminate a session.

I think in most games a good mix is best. Make me dodge so I can't shoot what I want as easily.

[xris]

TrevHead makes a good point.
The question is dumb, it's like asking if you like the cheese or the crust of pizza.

[EPS21]

Dodging. Conversely, in many said "dodging" games there can be some really sophisticated shooting required (maniac mushihimesama anyone?)

[devilmanozzy]

No this is a important and true argument among fans. Some don't care for these new style bullet based games. I'd play Space Invaders on my Atari 2600 over any of these new games on Mame. I'm happy to spend time on games that spent time on design instead on how much ram can be used to get as many pink dots on the screen at one time.

[Elixir]

I don't like dodging

[TrevHead (TVR)]

wow thats a pritty nasty safespot

[devilmanozzy]

TrevHead makes a good point.
The question is dumb, it's like asking if you like the cheese or the crust of pizza.

More like do you like New York or Chicago style Pizza which are quite different. Made of the same things tho.

[dannnnn]

No this is a important and true argument among fans. Some don't care for these new style bullet based games. I'd play Space Invaders on my Atari 2600 over any of these new games on Mame. I'm happy to spend time on games that spent time on design instead on how much ram can be used to get as many pink dots on the screen at one time.

Are you trying to say that Space Invaders is a better designed game than, say, DoDonPachi?

Don't be so ignorant, bullet-hell games are far more than just fitting "as many pink dots on the screen at one time". Cave games are built around their scoring systems, Garegga and APB are two of the deepest shooters you can find to sink time into and people even complain about Ikaruga being more of a puzzle game because it's so tightly designed that it doesn't offer much flexibility for players looking to score big.

If you don't like the vibrant colours and flashy graphics in most modern shooters, that's fair enough, it's your own personal taste, but to imply they are badly designed games is ridiculous.

[crackfox]

I prefer the bullet hell games myself..
I find them much more exciting to play...

[devilmanozzy]

No this is a important and true argument among fans. Some don't care for these new style bullet based games. I'd play Space Invaders on my Atari 2600 over any of these new games on Mame. I'm happy to spend time on games that spent time on design instead on how much ram can be used to get as many pink dots on the screen at one time.

Are you trying to say that Space Invaders is a better designed game than, say, DoDonPachi?

Don't be so ignorant, bullet-hell games are far more than just fitting "as many pink dots on the screen at one time". Cave games are built around their scoring systems, Garegga and APB are two of the deepest shooters you can find to sink time into and people even complain about Ikaruga being more of a puzzle game because it's so tightly designed that it doesn't offer much flexibility for players looking to score big.

If you don't like the vibrant colours and flashy graphics in most modern shooters, that's fair enough, it's your own personal taste, but to imply they are badly designed games is ridiculous.

You know most people would argue that about the whole genre of shmups. I like classic games mostly, and don't need the flash to get excited. I enjoy old school games such as space invaders, centipede, gradius, darius 2, and r-type. I've played my share of the new stuff, and while I like things like touhou a little, I still perfer good old 2d side scrolling/fixed shmups. That is all there is to it. "Don't be so ignorant"... Are you trying to flame me? Grow up. I wasn't born yesterday.

[MR_Soren]

I played the shit out of Space Invaders on the 2600 when I was a kid, and it does have some advantages over a newer game such as DoDonPachi. Maybe somebody would prefer a game with a simple scoring system instead of worrying about chaining. Maybe somebody would rather time their shots instead of spamming the big laser across the screen. I don't think it's crazy to prefer it over the newer games. It's quite possible that 2D shooters have become over-designed for their fanbase and have turned off the casual crowd in the process.

Topic:
I don't think I truly understand the poll in this thread. I mean, I enjoy older shooters like 1942. Max 3 shots on the screen and shootdown % bonus points means you have to be precise with a lot of your shots to score well, but you still spend a lot of time dodging bullets and suicidal planes. Also, instead of a bomb like in many games, your second button is basically a dodge button. So, is it a dodging game or a shooting game?

I picked "dodging" on the poll because I feel it keeps the player more involved, but I like shooting too if it involves some precision or provides a reason to not just hold down autofire the entire time. Oddly enough, I think the scoring systems in a lot of the games that seem to be based on "dodging" encourage more interesting uses of the fire button than "just hold autofire". Battle Garegga, for example, can punish players for spamming the attack button because you could unintentionally release medals you cannot collect, unlock a more difficult boss attack, or kill a boss before killing all of the parts.

All around, I prefer games that keep the player actively involved in both the shooting and dodging.

[captpain]

I think in most games a good mix is best. Make me dodge so I can't shoot what I want as easily.

All around, I prefer games that keep the player actively involved in both the shooting and dodging.

[ROBOTRON]

I prefer dodging but only slightly, I like games with a decent amount of both. I always felt like the actual shooting was more fun and interesting in Raizing games than in most of their contemporaries, which is one of the reasons I like those games a lot.

Seconded.

[t0yrobo]

I don't like Touhou games where you have to put all your effort into dodging, then making sure that you're actually shooting at the baddie. But just dodging can be enjoyable, like the end of Ikaruga. But shooting isn't much fun if there's nothing to dodge, it all just has to be balanced properly.

[KennyMan666]

Definitely dodging. Massive bullet patterns is what I live for.

[emphatic]

A dodgy subject, this.

[professor ganson]

Neither. I prefer non-shooting weapons like in later Psikyo or Alfa System games. Reflecting is also awesome when Rob does it.

[E. Randy Dupre]

I'm happy to spend time on games that spent time on design instead on how much ram can be used to get as many pink dots on the screen at one time.

Yeah, because none of those games were designed, the companies responsible just grabbed a load of random code, threw it together and - hey! - out popped a game.

Jesus

[Danbo]

The question in the OP is really stupid and dull so here's a better question, how much does it annoy you when people come on the shmups forum and say they dont like b. hell its about a 9 for me

okay well thats me away see you later

[nimitz]

Gradius is more about dodging than shooting.

So is Raiden.

[Taylor]

You don’t have to shoot in Cave games?!
I’ve been doing it wrong all this time.

[Aquas]

I think it should be proper to distinguish a more shooting oriented game as a game taht can be played effeciently without a rapidfire. Any of these games that apply, Gradius, Plus Alpha, Flying Shark, are more shooting oriented games. Or games where the enemies are tough and you're fast response to them appearing on the screen is what lets you survive. People liked rapping on the shot button back then, and you should try it sometime too with an older stg if you haven't. Come the 5th stage you'll be dying for a break in the action so you can rest and when the shit hits the fan, you might start jittering from the physical labor Just go play Flying Shark.

[Blue Protoman]

The question in the OP is really stupid and dull so here's a better question, how much does it annoy you when people come on the shmups forum and say they dont like b. hell its about a 9 for me

okay well thats me away see you later

At no point did I say I didn't like bullet hell games. I just said I preferred traditional shmups.