Trophies/Archievements - do you care about them?

[linko9]

I despise achievements, at least as they are implemented in current consoles. The problem isn't so much that they exist, but that they're an excuse for removing unlockables from your game. Do you think it's a coincidence that this console generation has seen the advent of achievements as well as rampant nickle-and-diming via DLC? By providing the player with meaningless "points" that have no effect on the actual game (in most cases), many devs feel that they can remove in-game unlockables, and charge for them as DLC. If achievements were always accompanied by in-game rewards (as they are in some cases already), I'd have no problem with the system. The idea of a "gamerscore" is also laughable. Does anyone really think they're better at games because they wasted hours of their life renting shitty games just to get the achievements? I also think that trophy notifications (which can't be turned off, as far as I know) are somewhat jarring, and can often "take you out of the game" somewhat, which cheapens the experience a bit (yeah, this is a very minor complaint, but I hate it anyway. I feel like they're forcing this shitty system down my throat).

[Ed Oscuro]

Do you think it's a coincidence that this console generation has seen the advent of achievements as well as rampant nickle-and-diming via DLC?

Yes. Both require substantial server back-end resources to implement properly, but that's the only common point they share. Both were being planned for implementation for a long time. And if we want to talk about DLC, let's talk about the fifty billion versions of the original Dreamcast hit Phantasy Star Online, which went off without a hitch despite there being no actual DLC packs.

[Skykid]

No, no, NO.

Achievements are a marketing tool that exist primarily to sell more shit games to more kids with no brains. Achievements are the gaming equivalent of social networking: a symbol of gaming status that signify laboured wastes of time than skill. The clever implementation of achievements to appear as some sort of videogame penis extension has overshadowed the real point of their existence: profit.

Most achievements can be attained by anyone who decides that life outside - women, work, social interaction, sunlight - are all back seat activities to maxing out the achievements on a rubbish current-gen game.

Play the fucking game, shelve the fucking game, forget about the fucking achievements, get a fucking girlfriend.

[Zaarock]

Achievements are the gaming equivalent of social networking: a symbol of gaming status that signify laboured wastes of time than skill.

I agree that gamerscore/amount of trophies could be considered that, but sometimes achievements are good challenges set by the developers to make you play the game differently. People doing stupid things like playing for gamescore doesn't need to make the idea bad for everyone else.

[Skykid]

Achievements are the gaming equivalent of social networking: a symbol of gaming status that signify laboured wastes of time than skill.

I agree that gamerscore/amount of trophies could be considered that, but sometimes achievements are good challenges set by the developers to make you play the game differently. People doing stupid things like playing for gamescore doesn't need to make the idea bad for everyone else.

They are what they are. Although in a microcosmic fashion they offer a gamer who can only afford to buy a limited number of titles a year some additional longevity from a purchase, most achievements are woeful excuses for extending a game that's considered to be too short for its price tag.

My personal dislike for the practice over the concept is that achievements are not representative of skill, and gamerpoints are a well orchestrated scheme to squeeze punters of their cash by having them appear on your profile as though they're actually worth something.

If the concept were to offer additional challenges within the boundaries of the game, the completion of which never made it to the public domain, I'd find the idea more palatable.

[Vexorg]

In my opinion, the best achievements are the ones that appear out of nowhere when you're not expecting it. I'd say my favorite one that I've gotten was in Half Life 2 on the Xbox 360 Orange Box. I was on a part of the game where I was at a dock, and I dropped a cargo container on a couple of Combine soldiers. Unexpectedly, an "OSHA Violation" achievement popped up, which had me laughing for quite a while.

[Skykid]

In my opinion, the best achievements are the ones that appear out of nowhere when you're not expecting it. I'd say my favorite one that I've gotten was in Half Life 2 on the Xbox 360 Orange Box. I was on a part of the game where I was at a dock, and I dropped a cargo container on a couple of Combine soldiers. Unexpectedly, an "OSHA Violation" achievement popped up, which had me laughing for quite a while.

Yep, I agree with this. The only achievements I enjoy are the ones which go out of their way to amuse, signifying some ridiculous feat that adds a little something to the experience. Beyond the message appearing and disappearing though, I couldn't care less.

[TodayIsForgotten]

Achievements are dumb in many cases and I don't understand the mentality of only playing games for them. You see people talking about how they finished this game or got whatever out whatever in this game. They don't even look at them as games anymore. Only GS. That, I don't understand.

I myself will go for them but it isnt out of necessity or fun but more boredom and depression. A game makes sense. Achievements only make as much sense as the game. If the achievements are stuff like don't use a continue, don't die, things most people who want to be good at a game or anything in life would strive for...perfection or close to it. I have no problem with that.

When its stupid shit like kill 50,000 enemies, play the game for 2 hours straight or any achievement that has nothing to do with the game. Are dumb.

Love em hate em, soon games will only be achievements if people continuing believing them as such. I can easily see xbox and sony implementing 99 cent achievement/trophy deals where you can buy an achievement/trophy you are struggling in. I could also see a game coming out that has nothing to do with a game but only achievements. Having you do things like press the A button 50 times, pressing up on the analog sticks. You price this at 10 bucks and i swear you'll be rich. So, whoever wants to do this there will be 10,000 suckers who will buy this while getting stupid, easy achievements as they look at a white background with black text telling them how to unlock each achievement.

[Ed Oscuro]

Speaking of the history of Achievements -

Tom's Hardware has an article titled In Pictures: 20 MMOG Realms You Should Explore. I won't spoil whether the article delivers on the promise (hint: Stars Wars Galaxies is mentioned, but so are a number of free-to-play titles), but seeing Star Wars Galaxies mentioned reminded me of the badges the game gave out. If you ground your way through a skill tree, you got a badge saying you had done this or that. That wasn't what I found interesting. As sparse as the game's scenery was (and last time I checked, still is), there were some neat vistas strewn throughout the world maps here and there, and when you went to specific spots you'd get special badges for having hiked there.

Whether this is a good or bad reward depends on the implementation, of course. Some of the badges were for going places people would want to check out anyway; some were postcard scenes picked by the developers to show off their hyped-at-the-time visuals; yet others were simply nice out of the way spots. My first (and, for all the flexibility - none - the game seemed to give in picking professions, only) goal in the game was to visit as many of the spots as possible. As a way of getting people out of the rut of grinding, I thought it was a good, simple idea.

A better modern implementation today would probably be to set up strings of "tours," and keep updating them as people discover new routes and tricky locations to reach. Of course, for that to be meaningful a game probably needs at minimum better world interaction than the very primitive kind found in Galaxies, where you can climb - extremely slowly - any hill, and fall any distance without damage. Coincidentally, I've remembered that Myst Online, a game which has always left its players wondering "what next?" due to its scarcity of objectives after the content is all puzzled through, has in its current form the ability for players to upload or follow sets of "markers," little hovering dots that you only can see when you get near them and which you must activate. Although people have plenty of fun with glitches in the geometry and jumping about in that game, it's no platformer, so in that case the idea doesn't really work too soundly - though it's at least a prototype for user-made missions.

[Ruldra]

I could also see a game coming out that has nothing to do with a game but only achievements.

Already done, but it's meant to make fun of archievement whores. But, it turned out to be so popular a sequel was made.

[MachineAres 1CC]

If the concept were to offer additional challenges within the boundaries of the game, the completion of which never made it to the public domain, I'd find the idea more palatable.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about, because this is basically what they do. There's a lot of games that I've enjoyed the hell out of, but I would have never known that certain things could be done or parts of the game existed without the achievements getting me to research how to do them. Achievements also vary greatly by how much effort the developer puts into them. There are hundreds of sports games and stupid bullshit childrens games that have achievement lists that can be maxed out in an hour or two, and this is where a lot of people took the whole thing out of control and started just playing games to add score to their account, not to actually play the games, and that is fucking stupid.

I only play games I like and try to do as much as I can in the ones that remain tolerable for long enough, but the whole idea of gamerscore whores just playing to get more points is disgusting and really nearly ruins the whole thing, and that's why I never care how high someone's gamerscore is, I just look at what games they played and how far they got in them to see if it really matters or has anything to do with skill. Its also a nice way to track what friends are doing in games as well, to have something to talk about instead of "so how are you doing in this game?" You can just look for yourself and have more specific things/strategies to talk about.

And now achievements/trophies are often used to give you goals for unlocking awards like avatar clothing, themes and gamer pictures, etc. so they're giving you more than just a number to put on your profile, you actually get something you can use.

Pretty sure I've had this discussion here about 4 times in different threads, and i'm the only one who doesn't throw a temper tantrum at the idea of achievements/trophies, but here it is again.

[Skykid]

If the concept were to offer additional challenges within the boundaries of the game, the completion of which never made it to the public domain, I'd find the idea more palatable.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about

Re-read the post. Achievements you get are immediately uploaded to your profile which exists in the public domain. They add to an accumulative gamerscore and are viewable by people on xbox live who wish to browse your game and achievement history.

The achievements are not just between you and the game, for self satisfaction and completeness, but become part of a public record.

Do you understand what I'm talking about now?

[Elixir]

Or you could just block them from the public and set them to friends only, or block them completely.

[Ruldra]

Achievements you get are immediately uploaded to your profile which exists in the public domain. They add to an accumulative gamerscore and are viewable by people on xbox live who wish to browse your game and achievement history.

The achievements are not just between you and the game, for self satisfaction and completeness, but become part of a public record.

I don't see what's so bad about your record being public. If you manage to complete some really tough archievements, it's nice to show off to your friends online. Actually the whole point of the system is to brag about your trophies; no point in it being private.

When I add someone to my friends list and I see he also has a game I own, I'll check his trophies to see what he accomplished that I didn't. I also check the order of trophies he earned; this usually reveals some minor details, like which weapon he prefers, the path he took in the game and so on.

This might be pointless to you, but some of us has some fun with it.

EDIT: Archievement unlocked - 1500 posts

[Skykid]

Achievements you get are immediately uploaded to your profile which exists in the public domain. They add to an accumulative gamerscore and are viewable by people on xbox live who wish to browse your game and achievement history.

The achievements are not just between you and the game, for self satisfaction and completeness, but become part of a public record.

I don't see what's so bad about your record being public. If you manage to complete some really tough archievements, it's nice to show off to your friends online. Actually the whole point of the system is to brag about your trophies; no point in it being private.

When I add someone to my friends list and I see he also has a game I own, I'll check his trophies to see what he accomplished that I didn't. I also check the order of trophies he earned; this usually reveals some minor details, like which weapon he prefers, the path he took in the game and so on.

This might be pointless to you, but some of us has some fun with it.

EDIT: Archievement unlocked - 1500 posts

Bam, you got it in one. That's exactly what I dislike about achievements, for the reasons you've given compounded with the aforementioned reasons I listed above:

No, no, NO.

Achievements are a marketing tool that exist primarily to sell more shit games to more kids with no brains. Achievements are the gaming equivalent of social networking: a symbol of gaming status that signify laboured wastes of time than skill. The clever implementation of achievements to appear as some sort of videogame penis extension has overshadowed the real point of their existence: profit.

Most achievements can be attained by anyone who decides that life outside - women, work, social interaction, sunlight - are all back seat activities to maxing out the achievements on a rubbish current-gen game.

Play the fucking game, shelve the fucking game, forget about the fucking achievements, get a fucking girlfriend.

[Ed Oscuro]

Skykid, is hiding whoring tactics that essential?

[Ruldra]

I get what you're saying Skykid, but one can make use of the archievement system without becoming a no-life zombie; all you need is moderation. Just think of it as a tool to complement your gaming habits.

Basically, this post sums up best:

People on either side of the extremes about achievements just need to take it easy. Ardent haters, give them a chance and see if there's something worth doing in there. And the achievement whores of course, need to remind themselves what a game is

[Skykid]

I get what you're saying Skykid, but one can make use of the archievement system without becoming a no-life zombie; all you need is moderation. Just think of it as a tool to complement your gaming habits.

Basically, this post sums up best:

People on either side of the extremes about achievements just need to take it easy. Ardent haters, give them a chance and see if there's something worth doing in there. And the achievement whores of course, need to remind themselves what a game is

I think we're on the same page, I just find the implementation of achievements to drive revenue distasteful and the people who pledge their allegiance to gamerscore ridiculous.
I can see positives depending on the type of gamer and their individual circumstances, just wish they weren't used as an advert for gaming status.

[brentsg]

I am kind of odd with this one. I hated achievements when I played WoW. I couldn't care less about PS3 trophies. But for some reason I enjoy them on the Xbox 360. Now, I only have maybe 4,000 points or something and I've had an Xbox since launch, but that's more because I don't play it that much .. and I don't go out of my way for them. I think the only game where I have every achievement is Pac-Man, and I'm 1 away on Ms. Pac.. need to get that done.

The way that they were implemented in Warcraft really drove me nuts. At one time I played in a guild with some of the best players in the USA. Unfortunately, it was back in the 40 man content days.. and it required a stupid amount of time (fun though). When things got scaled down to 25's, and then when they added 10 man modes for all the content, it really seemed a step in the right direction. I scaled way back a long time ago, and a subset of friends and coworkers were playing only the 10 man stuff and it was really fun.. playing just twice a week. Unfortunately everyone went so rabid over the stupid achievement system, that even this became hardcore .. when it was supposed to be just a relaxed and fun endeavor. So rather than it being friend-based, even this became a huge timesink in order to "earn" all of the achievements.

[Blade]

After having read the consecutive posts after my first...I am reminded of how sour and cynical the gaming community has become over the concept of an achievement.

What's wrong with a high score in something? Or beating a certain tough boss and having the trophy to prove it? I mean, not everything is DLC required.

Most achievements I've ever "obtained" prior to "achieving" them, were disc related or patch downloads...FREE I might add. Nothing wrong with that. And most games I've downloaded thus far have achievements that I can say aren't too frivolous and might illicit a laugh or two from friends. But more than that, they also make me remember some of the best moments I've had in recent gaming history. The friends I've made, the comments I get and other stuff.

Yeah sure it's social networking...but gaming isn't the same as Facebook (even if Facebook can be accessed on PSN as an option)...gaming is more than just a lifestyle or life choice...it's fun plain an simple. You spend money on the game to get it in the first place, so getting extra stuff isn't too hard a concept. Maybe you feel ripped off in some cases...but it doesn't hurt to know what your downloading ahead of time IF you do your research.

Unless you're an idiot who downloads everything he sees. D:

[MachineAres 1CC]

But more than that, they also make me remember some of the best moments I've had in recent gaming history. The friends I've made, the comments I get and other stuff.

Yeah sure it's social networking...but gaming isn't the same as Facebook (even if Facebook can be accessed on PSN as an option)...gaming is more than just a lifestyle or life choice...it's fun plain an simple. You spend money on the game to get it in the first place, so getting extra stuff isn't too hard a concept. Maybe you feel ripped off in some cases...but it doesn't hurt to know what your downloading ahead of time IF you do your research.

Unless you're an idiot who downloads everything he sees. D:

Wow, man, well said. It really is more about just trying to be an assheaded braggart and "show off" to people what you can do, but it really can stimulate great fun with friends and conversations that you'll remember for a long time. Like many things in life, it depends how you use it.

[Kaiser]

Necro-bumping this thread but... apparently some jailbreak hackers found a way to hack trophies! All those hackers need an extreme metal facebrick with spikes all around it right on their face!

Now that must make achievement/trophy hunters rage! ANYWAY, Some time ago I realised that platinum whoring is stupid if you don't enjoy the game in first place. I for one know I won't platinum Lost Planet 2 but that's not the reason I bought it in first place, I just wanted a fun, a spin off those generic FPSes. And the game delivered, best co-op experience this gen ever. Nothing can beat fighting VERY hard bosses on hard/extreme mode with your buddies while worrying at the same time to NOT screw up the battle gauge to zero and cause a game over to everyone. Adrealine rush for everyone!

So yeah, people who buy games for trophy whoring are lifeless idiots and are plaguing our gaming just like the whole DLC affair. Remember kids, don't buy games for trophies/achivs. Don't play them for the hell of getting them. Don't spend hours unlocking useless shit that are trophies/achivs and DO SOMETHING useful for once!

[Skykid]

Necro-bumping this thread but... apparently some jailbreak hackers found a way to hack trophies! All those hackers need an extreme metal facebrick with spikes all around it right on their face!

Now that must make achievement/trophy hunters rage!

Wahey, well done to the hackers!

[MachineAres 1CC]

Necro-bumping this thread but... apparently some jailbreak hackers found a way to hack trophies! All those hackers need an extreme metal facebrick with spikes all around it right on their face!

Now that must make achievement/trophy hunters rage! ANYWAY, Some time ago I realised that platinum whoring is stupid if you don't enjoy the game in first place. I for one know I won't platinum Lost Planet 2 but that's not the reason I bought it in first place, I just wanted a fun, a spin off those generic FPSes. And the game delivered, best co-op experience this gen ever. Nothing can beat fighting VERY hard bosses on hard/extreme mode with your buddies while worrying at the same time to NOT screw up the battle gauge to zero and cause a game over to everyone. Adrealine rush for everyone!

So yeah, people who buy games for trophy whoring are lifeless idiots and are plaguing our gaming just like the whole DLC affair. Remember kids, don't buy games for trophies/achivs. Don't play them for the hell of getting them. Don't spend hours unlocking useless shit that are trophies/achivs and DO SOMETHING useful for once!

This happened to achievements a long time ago, but since achievements track the exact date and time when they were earned, most people who hack them are found out pretty quickly and banned from any sites that follow achievements, etc. Funny if trophies don't do that.

[PsychoGun]

I appreciate achievements if they are in reason, in relation to playing the game.

I had a lot of fun getting the Uncharted 2 platinum, but most games turn the achievements into busy work because the developers want you to play the game way past when you get sick of it.

Shmup achievements are for the most part stupid, because 90% of them are easy as hell, and the last 10% only god tier players can get anyway (see Mushi Futari).

[captpain]

I used to shoot for achievements/trophies, until I finished a few long grinding ones and it struck me that I was totally wasting my time. It's an artificial way to lengthen playing time without improving the size or quality of a game.

Yep. They also have the added bonus of being aesthetically repulsive!

[Ruldra]

This happened to achievements a long time ago, but since achievements track the exact date and time when they were earned, most people who hack them are found out pretty quickly and banned from any sites that follow achievements, etc. Funny if trophies don't do that.

Yes, trophies also do that...it's easy to spot cheaters.

It makes me laugh that some people actually bother doing that. They completely miss the point of achievements.

[Kaiser]

Actually the trophies date can also be hacked.

http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/s ... es/1126458
^ Time for some trophy hilarity. I absolutely spew out laughing at the first post alone . Just read it, the guy thinks the devs/game forces him to do it hahaha. SERIOUSLY!

Man now that's the wrong way to play a game. I mean what the hell, I won't get all trophies in lost planet 2 but WHO cares? I Don't have to get the #1 worldwide nom (title) to enjoy the game. Yes it's required BUT WHO cares I say again? I don't need it, I don't need to waste my time to enjoy a goddamn game, neither I have to collect platinums to show off my e-peeeen. I'm cool with the idea of achievements/trophies being merely a minor addition to the game but i'm NOT cool with people who boost trophies and people who buy games for trophies. You don't need TO HAVE/DO trophies achievements to enjoy a goddamn game, example? I beat The Darkness 3-4 times in 2 years and it has no trophies/achievements! See what I do mean now?

[Ruldra]

Actually the trophies date can also be hacked.

It doesn't really matter in the end, does it? No point bragging about achievements you never got. It's like that one guy who posted a score higher than the WR in the Mushi thread.

[Kaiser]

Actually the trophies date can also be hacked.

It doesn't really matter in the end, does it? No point bragging about achievements you never got. It's like that one guy who posted a score higher than the WR in the Mushi thread.

For some it does matter. I just said it because I found it funny.