Why is Ikaruga so Damn Popular with Western Reviewers?

[E. Randy Dupre]

There you go assuming again, not surprising though.

Yeah, I made an assumption. Much like almost every single other person in this thread, in fact.

[PsychoGun]

Wow so deep bro, I think you've gained instant street credibility around here by saying that.

Yeah, because your nerd street cred is exactly what I'm after.

So I think Ikaruga sucks? Why get sand in your vagina over it?

[njiska]

There you go assuming again, not surprising though.

Yeah, I made an assumption. Much like almost every single other person in this thread, in fact.

Let's be fair gentalmen, the question i proposed has no right or wrong answer, only speculation. When you speculate you make assumptions based on fact, personal experience, knowledge, what have you. Naturally this means our assumptions won't match up from time to time. Doesn't make it wrong.

[Limbrooke]

Like anything else, a number of reasons go into Ikaruga's hype, but in general it boils down mostly to the combination of a lack of knowledge about the genre among mainstream reviewers and Ikaruga being visually impressive to look at for a Shmup. [...] To reviewers, the game represents the best of a more modern example of an oldschool genre, even though if anything from a gameplay perspective it's almost the complete opposite.

It's more the to the point it was a radically different game in a period of less than favourable opinion towards shooting games. Many reviews I've read from that time make a point of stating the "[shooting game] genre seems long dead now..." which to me tells of poor short term memory with respect to other modern western released shooters, as illustrated above. Being polished and different really set the tone and this lapse of being able to recall shooters from <20y/a proves it. The bottom line is that Infogrames was the right place at the right time in publishing a Treasure game.

Mainstream reviewers are not going to be able to pick out that the polarity system is little more than a gimmick that's barely used to actually make interesting and fun ways to deal with enemies...

Don't know what reviews you've read but many of them understand and state the obvious benefits and impact of chaining.

Nevermind that the game is short even for a shooter.

Sure it doesn't have a loop, but at 24 minutes a pop, it's an ideal amount of time. Not to mention 3 different modes (2 if you don't count Easy), so we're getting closer to an hour if Hard could be considered the loop for Normal and an hour and a quarter if starting on Easy. Seems like plenty of time any way it's sliced.

I don't think it matters if someone prefers Silvergun over this or not, one needs to assess how it stands on it's own, otherwise the discussion degenerates into comparathon, which is something entirely different.

Yeah, I made an assumption. Much like almost every single other person in this thread, in fact.

Problem here is yours is a blanket statement, one which I don't want to be included in, as I'm sure others wouldn't want to be as well. If you want to contribute, try less degrading, unassuming comments. Either that or get the bees out of your bonnet.

[njiska]

Also, have you seen Famitsu's scores for Ikaruga? They're pretty sky high too. And I do believe it got it for arcade game of the year in some mag over there. So, the East recognizes that it's a great game too. Not just "Westerners who know nothing about the genre".

I don't mean to imply that Ikaruga is bad game, but it seems that's how everyone is taking the question. My issue is relevance. Even if a title wasn't loved like the original Soldner, it's still not a bad point of reference as long as people know it. Like I said in the RSG thread, I'm concerned that reviewers will focus too much on it's association to Ikaruga and players will be expecting something different than what they receive.

[cul]

Wow so deep bro, I think you've gained instant street credibility around here by saying that.

Yeah, because your nerd street cred is exactly what I'm after.

So I think Ikaruga sucks? Why get sand in your vagina over it?

I was honestly going to ask you to do that but you edited faster than light. It actually made my day. Thank you.

Well, I'm so touched, I have to do this:

[PsychoGun]

Any game I talk shit about you can be sure I own and put a lot of time into. My current shitfest is KOF Skystage, which is much worse than Ikaruga.

[DietSoap]

Well, I'm so touched, I have to do this:

10/10, sweet pic bro. Really like what you did with the tongues.

[cul]

More love like this avaible on my blog in my sig.

Psycho> I wasn't even aware it was already out. But that one was expected to be shit.

[drauch]

Ha! Some pretty silly convos going on here. I am western as well, and I find Ikaruga influential, but not as great as some people say. Sure, I enjoy the game to an extent, but I think it gets a little too much god tier status. I also suck at the game, because I find it hard as balls, so I guess I could throw that into the mix as well.

[WarBovine]

I admit this meekly as a games journalist by trade, but there is a trend in the games media globally to jump on critical bandwagons.

Once one high-profile journalist berates/praises a game, the opinion ball gets rolling, and with each new review that follows suit it seems that many find it harder to counter popular opinion. I was certainly guilty on occasion during my very early local newspaper days, which is why I learned not to read anything about a game I'm reviewing whenever possible.

Not every journalist does it, but many do; a particularly so with 'cult' games.

Once it's popular opinion that Ikaruga is the champion of the 2D shooter, it seems to become set in stone, and what is the hardcore but non-shmupping gamer expected to think but what they read time and time again. It's almost like the way an urban myth permeates the consciousness of the public until it is understood as irrefutable fact.

What was the reputation of Ikaruga like in Japan? I fall into the camp of considering Ikaruga the second coming of Christ personally, but I've always felt that it has had too much of a legendary reputation for any mainstream game reviewers to criticize without sounding like an ignorant moron. This is compounded by the fact that most of them are not familiar with the genre and are incapable of making any critical analysis of the game.

If memory serves me, R-Type: Dimensions was the same way. Most of the reviews came down to: a) legendary shooter, b) pretty graphics, c) pricy and not for everyone. I never saw a single review that looked at what the game played like...

[Obiwanshinobi]

If memory serves me, R-Type: Dimensions was the same way. Most of the reviews came down to: a) legendary shooter, b) pretty graphics, c) pricy and not for everyone. I never saw a single review that looked at what the game played like...

Something wrong with this review?

[Subterranean Sun]

Because it has some nice graphic, awesome soundtrack, and a good storyline
So even a touhoufag or a cave troll can enjoy it

[Lok]

I thought it was because it's the most recognizable among the readers of those reviewers. When I bought Raiden IV, the employees asked me what the game was about (shocking, I know). I mentioned it was sorta like 1944 and Giga Wing. After receiving blank looks, I said Ikaruga and then they knew what it was. Same thing with Touhou. Whenever I go to an Anime con and play Mushi Futari, Death Smiles, etc., the main question I am asked is if what I'm playing a new Touhou game.

But it all boils down to reviewers in general. They write for the mainstream and it just so happens that our beloved genre is out of the limelight.

[captpain]

I thought it was because it's the most recognizable among the readers of those reviewers. When I bought Raiden IV, the employees asked me what the game was about (shocking, I know). I mentioned it was sorta like 1944 and Giga Wing. After receiving blank looks, I said Ikaruga and then they knew what it was. Same thing with Touhou. Whenever I go to an Anime con and play Mushi Futari, Death Smiles, etc., the main question I am asked is if what I'm playing a new Touhou game.

But it all boils down to reviewers in general. They write for the mainstream and it just so happens that our beloved genre is out of the limelight.

Where were you? I can't imagine working at a games store and not knowing what the Raiden franchise is about. Weird.

[D]

DC, GC, 360
that´s why
http://www.gamefaqs.com/search/index.ht ... form=0&s=s
it came late in DC´s life!
I personally hate it. Even more than RSG.
As for RSG I appreciate the work that went into that title, it´s just not arcadey enough for me. Boring games.
bye

[Jockel]

10/10, sweet pic bro. Really like what you did with the tongues.

This

[hail good sir]

alive

(last one was locked)

[emphatic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln_Bu4QZl14

[spadgy]

This is compounded by the fact that most of them are not familiar with the genre and are incapable of making any critical analysis of the game.

That a good point. Professional game reviewers are small in number, as are dedicated shmup fans. The Venn diagram cross-over between those two groups leaves a very small pool of shmup-savvy games press. In fact, I think all three of us are on here!

As WarBovine says, perhaps their aren't enough qualified to do much more than go with the flow of popular opinion (not that is an excuse).

It's a problem faced by every 'niche' genre, and to be fair to the press it's tough in our shoes, because at present you're expected to be a fully qualified expert in every genre ever conceived.

I do my bit by avoiding reviewing games in genres I don't know well, but I'm in the enviable position that most of my work isn't reviewing; I can just pick the games I'd be playing anyway. So many reviewers get landed with a huge amount a month. It's changing for the better though, as a relatively youthful industry matures.

[clp]

Because it's a fantastic game.

Better question: why do people love to go out of their way to talk about the fact that they don't like it? *Can't be seen agreeing with the evil mainstream media, must deflect!*

incorrect , i played the game myself before forming an opinion ,enough to actually learn some stage chains and really get a feel for it ..... its not fun at all . When is the last time you saw ikaruga posted in the "what im playing now " or hi score threads?

[Skykid]

..... its not fun at all . When is the last time you saw ikaruga posted in the "what im playing now " or hi score threads?

I partly agree with this. I don't think it is a very fun shmup, but I can see the attraction as a strange puzzle game hybrid. I spent months trying to get it to click for me - I remember speaking to Ruperth regularly to try to determine what I was missing. In the end I concluded it looks great, sounds great and is brilliantly executed - but the concept ends up faltering at the last hurdle (the bit where you actually have to play the game through and learn it.)

I wrote a review on shmups ages ago when I returned to the game and felt I needed to get it all down in type. I think I was pretty fair to it:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19696

[Dale]

The problem I have is when you put a STG on this high of pedestal it doesn't allow any other good shmups to get the praise they need, because it always just boils down to Ikaruga's better(which generally mainstream assholes can't even explain why its better then anything). But because people follow reviews like sheep they don't even haft to write a reason. So fuck Ikaruga, it kills the sales of other better shmups because people of so damn dumb.

I have played many credits of the game and I always hate it. The collision and all the memorizer crap kills it for me(not that this matters at this point).

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, now you can hate on RSG, because that's likely to happen once it comes to XBLA.

I think the main problem is that there aren't that many awesome shmups anymore. Other than Cave's or Treasure's in the 9 or so years, nobody else has put out something that's going to grab you by the throat. And only one Cave game has even made it here.

[Skykid]

Well, now you can hate on RSG, because that's likely to happen once it comes to XBLA.

RSG deserves a lot of praise. It's not perfect: it's incredibly bloated, eccentric and far too overlong for such a difficult game. But it's sublime in many ways, and it's merits outweigh Ikaruga in almost every department.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, now you can hate on RSG, because that's likely to happen once it comes to XBLA.

RSG deserves a lot of praise. It's not perfect: it's incredibly bloated, eccentric and far too overlong for such a difficult game. But it's sublime in many ways, and it's merits outweigh Ikaruga in almost every department.

I prefer Ikaruga, but i'm telling you, you're going to have a lot of people moaning and groaning about how RSG is overrated, and such and such isn't getting enough attention. I got my crystal balls out.

[Skykid]

Well, now you can hate on RSG, because that's likely to happen once it comes to XBLA.

RSG deserves a lot of praise. It's not perfect: it's incredibly bloated, eccentric and far too overlong for such a difficult game. But it's sublime in many ways, and it's merits outweigh Ikaruga in almost every department.

I prefer Ikaruga, but i'm telling you, you're going to have a lot of people moaning and groaning about how RSG is overrated, and such and such isn't getting enough attention. I got my crystal balls out.

They've been ragging on RSG for years.

It's better than Ikaruga.

[evil_ash_xero]

It's better than Ikaruga.

That debate will be eternal. My problem with RSG is I don't like the in between boss stuff too much. I thought it was better in Ikaruga. RSG certainly is more interesting to look at, and has insane bosses, but I like the better "stages" in between the bosses in Ikaruga.

It's still pretty great they're both going to be available here at cheap prices.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I know theres a need for niche genres to have a well known title or 2 that reviewers can namedrop so that joe blogs knows what his writting about but having Ikaruga as this genres mainsteam game isnt doing our beloved genre any good. Ikruga with its polarity and chaining systems is too oddball from the common shmup and the fact that its akin to a puzzle game just helps reinforce the sterotype that the only skills a player needs to be able to excell is a good memory. (Then someone with that mindset then goes on to see that infamous Cave you tube vid which makes him run a mile.)

Even though reviewers dont namedrop it another well know game is Touhou, another well known game that can reinforce its own stereotypes. Namely the loli, wierd fandam and all that shmups of today are just boss battles with a crazy amount of bullets since its the boss battles that are the most common on youtube or pictures.

Although Ive never played RSG in a year from now im looking forward to seeing it namedropped over Ikaruga, ild rather have Raiden and DDP (as these are true stereotypes) but i cant have everything.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Other than Cave's or Treasure's in the 9 or so years, nobody else has put out something that's going to grab you by the throat.

That's funny, the only Cave game from that period I played that REALLY impressed me (nearly as much as Metal Slug back in the day) would be Ibara (which I suck at and am not even sure if I like it).
Zanac X Zanac (2001), on the other hand, is one puzzling phenomenon. Not just Zanac Neo, but Zanac Special Version too. I mean, whether you like it or not, you have to wonder why it's not endowed with the sacred aureole à la Ikaruga and Rez. Were people this fed up with 2D, Compile or the PSX when it came out?