XRGB-3

killersquirel · Post by **killersquirel** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:21 am

Thank you for the help with the new fixed firmware. I got it to work using my mac running win xp on parallels. Thanks again for the help with my initial problem.

-mike

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:04 pm

Hey, looking for some advice, especially would like Fudoh's perspective on this. Basically I am switching to RGB for all my pre-PS3 consoles going back to the Master System. I got the cables and what not ready to go and all I need is an XRGB so that I can pretty up 240p/480i stuff with scanlines on my soulless sterile modern technological behemoth of an LCD TV.

Trouble is I originally thought I could score a XRGB-3 for little more than $250, but my latest estimates clock it in at a $500 is range.

I am certain it is a nice unit and all, but seriously with all the rare games I've been buying lately I cannot justify spending so much unless absolutely necessary.

So, my question is, since my only reason for buying the XRGB over a generic scart to HDMI converter is to have scanlines, does it even make any sense to get an XRGB-3 if I am only going to use the line doubler mode?

Keeping only that mode in mind, does the XRGB-3 offer any benefits over, say, the XRGB-2, or XRGB-2 Plus?

I've read the wikis several times but I cannot figure this one out. The low pass filter which helps stabilize the image of 240p content, is that a XRGB-3 exclusive or do the earlier models also have them?

My consoles of choice are the following, all hooked up via RGB: Master Sysytem, CDX, SNES, Saturn and PSX/PS2.

I also have a N64 and a NES, the latter I'll prolly end up using composite because doing a RGB mod is too much of a hassle, as for the former I might do the RGB mod or just use S-video. Any input would be appreciated.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:03 pm

So, my question is, since my only reason for buying the XRGB over a generic scart to HDMI converter is to have scanlines, does it even make any sense to get an XRGB-3 if I am only going to use the line doubler mode?

A few years back I paid about $4000 for my video processor while having a $1000 LCD TV, so don't ask me what to spend

A generic Scart to HDMI converter will be much closer to what your TV does already (if you don't have Scart on your TV, just give it a spin using a component hookup (e.g. with a PS1 game on a PS3 with the output set to 480i SD only) - Scart to HDMI converters are more or less solutions to for compatibility issues and won't do much to the quality. The XRGB on the other hand is hands down the best processor there is for 240p, no matter if you plan on upscale or just output linedoubled with scanlines.

XRGB-3 over the 2plus: definitly the better choice for LCDs. More inputs, support for PSP Zoom, allows 480p input from Cube, PS2 etc on the same inputs. I wouldn't try to save $100 or 150 on buying a older XRGB.

$500 (which is estimated too high, since even Solaris Japan only charges $435 incl. free shipping) might seem steep, but the XRGB will be most-used accessoire to your setup and I wouldn't even dream about setting up a flatscreen-based gaming setup without adding the XRGB-3.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:56 pm

What the duck, did solaris just reduce their price? I could have sworn it worked out to about 475 CAD last time I checked, and that was a week or so ago. Anyway, I ordered one through Shopping Mall Japan a few days ago and the order does not seem to have gone anywhere since then. But in the meantime I've been tallying up the expenses and it seems I stand to lose about 450-500 once all the fees have been tallies up. That was the basis of my calculation.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. But for the 480p I'd rather just let my LCD do its thing, unless there is some hidden advantage to routing 480p content through the XRGB-3 that I do not know of. And the fullscreen PSP thing is no biggie, PSP games look pretty sour on the big screen when compared to them running on their intended tiny LCD. As for the additional inputs, their nice and all but all I need is the SCART input as well as a single composite for the NES.

Factoring in my needs I think I won't see any benifit from going to XRGB-3. I mean there is a guy right now trying to sell a plain old XRGB-2 for 170. Compared to at least 450 I am not really seeing the advantage. But if there is anything else let me know. Do all the XRGB's have the low pass filter function by the way?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:47 pm

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. But for the 480p I'd rather just let my LCD do its thing, unless there is some hidden advantage to routing 480p content through the XRGB-3 that I do not know of.

no, there's not. It's just easier for systems which only output some games in 480p, like the PS2.

Factoring in my needs I think I won't see any benifit from going to XRGB-3. I mean there is a guy right now trying to sell a plain old XRGB-2 for 170.

2 (in comparison to 2plus): no component input and only a single (very strong) scanline setting.

Do all the XRGB's have the low pass filter function by the way?

on the 2 and 2plus you don't need it. The built in lpf just works.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:12 pm

How, now if only I had known all this two weeks ago. I have a backwards compatible PS3 that I trust my 480p PS2 titles with and a Wii to handle 480p cube games. So looks like I am set to go with a plain 2'er. If the strong scanline setting turns me off I can always upgrade in the future, a future in which I am fat with decadent riches.

Thanks for the advice, now to see if I can cancel that order.

trunk · Post by **trunk** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:43 pm

Hello everyone,

I've been mostly reading and learning in this thread and got into the imaging processing issue a while back(maybe 4 years ago or so) because I like playing older games and I thought they looked terrible on HDTVs. Doing google searches for scanlines I landed on Fudoh's excellent page http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/.

Since then I've wired my own jpn to scart cables and some others as well as picked up different items such as:

9A60
Extron Super Emotia
xrgb2+
xrgb3
Grandtec Hi-Wire
HD Box pro
monoprice vga->hdmi

Now I do have a question and am hoping that one of you knowledgeable people on here could point me in the right direction.

I have a Toshiba DLP model 46hm95 (native 720p). It was cheap, it looks great with 720p native game systems, as well as movies. Of course it looks like crap being fed 240p or 480i.

I'm trying to use the xrgb-3 in B1 mode to get scanlines but I get uneven horizontal scanlines (moire) and wish to fix the issue. My guess is that 480 does not scale into 720 thus creating the uneven lines.

Is there a device that could get 480 to 720 with even lines OR a device that could take the signal from the xrgb-3 and put black bars(letterbox) on top and bottom effectively putting 480 lines unscaled into 720 lines therefore bypassing the tv doing 480 -> 720?

The basic setup would be 240p game system(rgb over 21 pin) > xrgb-3 B1 mode (vga) > ??????????? (vga or dvi or hdmi) > 46hm95

Thanks in advance for the help. My nes, snes, genesis, Turbo Duo, ps1, and saturn thank you also. I always enjoy reading all the threads, I seem to be more of a lurker than anything else.

Endymion · Post by **Endymion** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:25 pm

kamiboy wrote:How, now if only I had known all this two weeks ago. I have a backwards compatible PS3 that I trust my 480p PS2 titles with

FYI, if you use the PS3 video control to use 480p with your PS2 games then you are getting deinterlacing, not a real progressive scan.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:10 pm

Endymion wrote:
kamiboy wrote:How, now if only I had known all this two weeks ago. I have a backwards compatible PS3 that I trust my 480p PS2 titles with
FYI, if you use the PS3 video control to use 480p with your PS2 games then you are getting deinterlacing, not a real progressive scan.

Not sure what you mean by that, if you are saying that 480i only PS2 titles are not output in progressive scan when played in the PS3 then I already knew that. I was mere talking about the few PS2 titles that sport a 480p option, like Shadiow of Ciolossus and the God of War series. Those I will definitely play on the PS3, while the regular 480i PS2 titles I'll most likely play through whatever XRGB I end up with so I can enjoy them with scanlines. Unless of course that after testing I find I prefer them running through the PS3 anyway.

For the most part I want the XRGB for playing 8 and 16bit titles. One because that is the only way to route their RGB signal to my LCD, and secondly because I really think they might benefit from scan line emulation. 32bit and up I am not so sure though.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:45 pm

Is there a device that could get 480 to 720 with even lines OR a device that could take the signal from the xrgb-3 and put black bars(letterbox) on top and bottom effectively putting 480 lines unscaled into 720 lines therefore bypassing the tv doing 480 -> 720?

Better video processor do both quite nicely. 480p to 720p will still render the scanlines a bit soft though. You'd be looking for something like an Edge or an Optoma HD3000. The Edge's around $500 while the Optomas are around $300 right now. Konsolkongen had a hard time using his XRGB-3 with his Optoma, while it worked fine on my setup.

He's using a Gefen VGA to DVI/HDMI Scaler right now after the XRGB-3 - around $250.

@Konsolkongen: 480p -> 720p with scanlines. Does the Gefen scale this nicely without moire patters or uneven scanlines ?

Konsolkongen · Post by **Konsolkongen** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:36 pm

Fudoh wrote: @Konsolkongen: 480p -> 720p with scanlines. Does the Gefen scale this nicely without moire patters or uneven scanlines ?

Not really. In 720p i cant get rid of the moire and there is a noticeable difference in the scanlines when you are a very close to the screen, i cant spot any uneven scanlines when using it in 1080p. I doubt anyone will notice it when playing in 720p though.

trunk · Post by **trunk** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:22 am

Konsolkongen wrote:
Fudoh wrote: @Konsolkongen: 480p -> 720p with scanlines. Does the Gefen scale this nicely without moire patters or uneven scanlines ?
Not really. In 720p i cant get rid of the moire and there is a noticeable difference in the scanlines when you are a very close to the screen, i cant spot any uneven scanlines when using it in 1080p. I doubt anyone will notice it when playing in 720p though.

Ok so I do indeed need some sort of scaler.

I was eyeing the Gefen wondering if it would be able to solve the problem. I wonder if Konsolkongen just have uneven lines in 720p now since he is using a 1080p native screen as opposed to a 720p native.

Thanks for the help Fudoh and Konsolkongen, looks like I need to look into some more devices

(I can see my wife right now

)

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:21 am

I wonder if Konsolkongen just have uneven lines in 720p now since he is using a 1080p native screen as opposed to a 720p native.

I don't think so. The scaling of the current Sony LCDs (mine) or Panasonic Plasmas (his) is pretty good. The following shot from Death Smiles is 720p output by the 360 scaled to 1080p by the TV. There are no artefacts produced by this step...

trunk · Post by **trunk** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:16 am

That picture looks great, the lines are nice and even. I guess that means that the Gefen unit is not the right solution(and that my tv's internal scaler is not good)

A quick search on ebay netted:
a single optoma hd3000 BIN $1600

a DVDO Edge(several) ~ $400

It's quite a process to get the right picture on some HDTVs. I have smaller monitors (CRT and LCD) as well as a CRT HDTV and they don't have the moire issue but of course they're smaller and I wish to game classic on the bigger screen.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:19 am

a single optoma hd3000 BIN $1600

there are at least two HD3000 units on eBay over here. Both started from 1 EUR and both will definitely end at less than 250 EUR.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Optoma-HD3000-Scaler ... 3a5ea3d0a2
http://cgi.ebay.de/Videoscaler-Scaler-O ... 20b39c398b

I can offer to forward a parcel if they don't agree on international shipping...

ShutokouBattle · Post by **ShutokouBattle** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:38 am

I have some questions related to the XRGB-3.

I've noticed in pictures of the XRGB-3 that on the back there's a d-sub connector marked "RGB". Is this used for an RGB connection, or is it a VGA input?

What kinds of options does the XRGB-3 have as far as resizing the image? Can you manually change the vertical and horizontal size of the image on the screen, or do you basically have to choose between 16:9 and 4:3 (stretched or matted)?

I've heard about the "English firmware" but I'm not too clear on the details. Is this something that is available now? How do you flash the XRGB-3 with the new firmware? Is the English firmware up to date, as far as features, with the newest Japanese firmware?

I'm a bit confused when I hear people talk about the XRGB-3 being an upscaler for "240p" content. It was my understanding that most consoles before the last-gen output only interlaced video. Consoles like the Genesis, Saturn, N64, etc. So what is meant by "240p"?

A very broad question: how do people go about getting RGB signals out of US and Japan region videogame consoles? It is my (possibly erroneous) understanding that most consoles (in the US and Japan) prior to at least the 32-bit era were not built with RGB capability. In other words, they have to be modded in order to even output RGB. That part I understand.

What I'm a bit confused about is, once the console has been modded, how do you get the signal to the TV or XRGB-3 or what have you? Do you have to make your own cables, or do you get cables from Europe or what? If you make your own cables, where do you get the parts? This is why I asked about the d-sub connector in the back. I know for a fact that you can easily get d-sub connectors designed specifically for DIY projects like this. I have no idea where you would get an equivalent SCART connector. And on the other end, do you simply cannibalize an existing A/V connector for that system?

Is there a list somewhere of US and Japan region consoles that already output RGB without needing to be modded?

Sorry for my numerous, long-winded questions, but I am very curious and the people on this forum seem to be very knowledgeable.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:59 am

Is this used for an RGB connection, or is it a VGA input?

both, 15khz RGBs, 15khz RGBHV, 31khz VGA(RGBHV).

What kinds of options does the XRGB-3 have as far as resizing the image? Can you manually change the vertical and horizontal size of the image on the screen, or do you basically have to choose between 16:9 and 4:3 (stretched or matted)?

In B1 mode you can do nothing, in B0 mode you can do pretty much anything. Sometimes the controls don't work this good, this depends on the source signal's sync information.

I've heard about the "English firmware" but I'm not too clear on the details. Is this something that is available now? How do you flash the XRGB-3 with the new firmware? Is the English firmware up to date, as far as features, with the newest Japanese firmware?

You can find a step by step instruction for flashing on my site here: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
The english firmware is a bit behind the japanese one, but you're missing nothing major.

It was my understanding that most consoles before the last-gen output only interlaced video. Consoles like the Genesis, Saturn, N64, etc. So what is meant by "240p"?

240p and 480i are both 15khz SD signals. On a 480i signal the alternating fields (each consisting of 240 lines) have a different line offset, so first all the even lines are drawn and then all the odd ones. On a 240p signal you have again 60 240-line fields per second but they are drawn without any offset. Classic systems like MD, SNES, N64 are 240p. PS1 had small portion of 480i titles and most of the PS2's library is in 480i. The difference is that you need a good deinterlacer for 480i signals, while you need a machine which understands that 240p does not have to be deinterlaced, but just linedoubled, for 240p signals.

A very broad question: how do people go about getting RGB signals out of US and Japan region videogame consoles? It is my (possibly erroneous) understanding that most consoles (in the US and Japan) prior to at least the 32-bit era were not built with RGB capability.

that's wrong. SMS, MD, SNES, NG, PS1, SAT all have RGB outputs, no matter if you use american, japanese or european systems. It's just a matter of getting the right cables.

Do you have to make your own cables, or do you get cables from Europe or what?

you buy cables for those systems already having RGB and you build cables for those which need to be modded to RGB (NES and PC Engine). The N64 uses standard SNES RGB cables after modding.

Is there a list some where of US and Japan region consoles that already output RGB without needing to be modded?

of the major systems only the NES, the PC Engine and the N64 need RGB mods. The N64 is very simple since the connector on the system is already there. The PCE is simple as well, but needs a RGB connector to be added on the system and the NES needs a new graphics chip inside and a new connector on the machine's outside.

Honestly, nothing there which wouldn't have shown up googling just a few minutes....

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:32 pm

Hey, Fudoh, on your site you wrote something about XRGB's inadequacies with PAL signals, but you didn't go into much detail. I have a few PAL consoles lying about, and more than a few PAL games to go along with them, basically all my PSX games are PAL, as well as all of my SMS and NES games and I have a few PAL PS2 games as well.

For the SMS, I have a Master System converter II and a NTSC CDX, since Master System games were region free I think that setup will give me a NTSC signal. For NES, I have a NTSC NES with the lockout chip pacified, so once again I'll get NTSC signal. But for the PSX, and a handful of PS2 PAL games I will get PAL signals out. So what exactly will happen when I feed that into the XRGB?

Will the unit just crap out, or will it take them in and do its magic, but produce something that most LCD's will not be able to handle? I tested my LCD and through HDMI at least it can handle a 50hz signal, so I suspect it will be able to through VGA as well, so will PAL games work or is there more to it than that?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:49 pm

but you didn't go into much detail.

In B1 mode the XRGB-3 is fully PAL-cabable, *AS LONG* as the VGA input on your TV or monitor supports 576p50Hz. Most VGA inputs can't do that. You can then use a VGA to Component transcoder and use the component inputs instead, but they usually have worse quality than the VGA input.

tested my LCD and through HDMI at least it can handle a 50hz signal, so I suspect it will be able to through VGA as well

no, unfortunately not. While HDMI just knows 576p50 by standard, VGA usually only includes 60Hz VESA timings.

trunk · Post by **trunk** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:45 pm

Fudoh wrote:I can offer to forward a parcel if they don't agree on international shipping...

Thank you for the offer but I'll probably wait and do some more research.

Research and patience are the keys to achieving ones goals without annoying people.

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:36 pm

Konsolkongen wrote:Ah i misunderstood you then. That sucks Have you tried switching the V-sync option?

Yeah I tried that too and it does not work. But I am okay with that because I love B0 mode and the options it has. I played PaRappa last night and didn't notice any delay.

Zapf · Post by **Zapf** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:50 am

Fudoh wrote:
I wonder if Konsolkongen just have uneven lines in 720p now since he is using a 1080p native screen as opposed to a 720p native.
I don't think so. The scaling of the current Sony LCDs (mine) or Panasonic Plasmas (his) is pretty good. The following shot from Death Smiles is 720p output by the 360 scaled to 1080p by the TV. There are no artefacts produced by this step...

Is that the same picture from your website, and if so, is there a reason you are outputting your xbox 360 at 720p and upscaling that to 1080p instead of just having it output 1080p?

ShutokouBattle · Post by **ShutokouBattle** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:50 am

A couple more questions.

I was looking at this website and a couple things caught my attention. First of all, it says that the DVI output is disabled when using B1 mode. What's up with that? What's the point of even having an XRGB-3 if you can't have scanlines? And if you have to use VGA in order to use the B1 mode, how is the XRGB-3 even better than the XRGB-2+?

It also says that a lot of TV's have problems with 1080p from the XRGB-3. This a problem for me because my TV's native resolution is 1920x1080, so if the XRGB-3 outputs anything less than that it's going to be upscaled twice, and that just seems stupid. Has any of this been fixed with the newer firmware updates or is it still a problem?

My TV is a 32" LG LCD, 32LH30 model. Does anyone have experience with this model and the XRGB-3?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:04 am

is there a reason you are outputting your xbox 360 at 720p and upscaling that to 1080p instead of just having it output 1080p?

there are various reasons to that. a) nearly all games are optimized for 720p output, b) nearly all games are internally rendered at 720p or less, c) there are serious performance drops on many games if the 360 is set to 1080p (incl. Cave games), d) my Blackmagic Multibridge (the machine I used to overlay scanlines) only supports 720p and 1080i and progressive is a must for videogames.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:11 am

First of all, it says that the DVI output is disabled when using B1 mode. What's up with that? What's the point of even having an XRGB-3 if you can't have scanlines?

Most people I know don't use scanlines and don't use the B1 mode. Most new features and developments from Micomsoft are for B0 only. My guess is that 90% or more of the XRGB users use B0 with scaling instead.

And if you have to use VGA in order to use the B1 mode, how is the XRGB-3 even better than the XRGB-2+?

B1, the linedoubling mode with scanlines is basically just a "2plus mode". VGA vs DVI is not the question. The XRGB's VGA output is nice and clean, so it's not a quality issue. The XRGB-3 accepts 480p in B1 mode which makes it more versatile than the 2plus.

It also says that a lot of TV's have problems with 1080p from the XRGB-3. This a problem for me because my TV's native resolution is 1920x1080

this quote I don't understand. From your top quote I thought you were going to use B1 only. There is no scaling in B1. The output is always only 480p.

My TV is a 32" LG LCD, 32LH30 model. Does anyone have experience with this model and the XRGB-3?

You can test if a LCD is suited for upscaling the "scanlined B1 output" by throwing in a Sega Ages PS2 titles with 480p and emulated scanlines. Some 32" LCDs have a hard time properly upscaling scanlines...

ShutokouBattle · Post by **ShutokouBattle** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:04 am

Fudoh wrote:240p and 480i are both 15khz SD signals. On a 480i signal the alternating fields (each consisting of 240 lines) have a different line offset, so first all the even lines are drawn and then all the odd ones. On a 240p signal you have again 60 240-line fields per second but they are drawn without any offset. Classic systems like MD, SNES, N64 are 240p. PS1 had small portion of 480i titles and most of the PS2's library is in 480i. The difference is that you need a good deinterlacer for 480i signals, while you need a machine which understands that 240p does not have to be deinterlaced, but just linedoubled, for 240p signals.

Okay, I'm still a bit confused about this. I understand the difference between interlaced and progressive-scan images, but I don't understand how progressive could be possible on an older console. I always thought that composite, S-Video, and SCART were only capable of transmitting interlaced video. I also thought that older TV's, before the advent of HDTV (and the few "EDTV's" that were built), only displayed interlaced video. So how could the output of an older console be progressive-scan if the only TVs available accepted only interlaced video? Is there something I'm missing here?

Fudoh wrote:Most people I know don't use scanlines and don't use the B1 mode. Most new features and developments from Micomsoft are for B0 only. My guess is that 90% or more of the XRGB users use B0 with scaling instead.

Really? I thought one of the major draws of the XRGB-3 was the scanlines. If not that, then what is the draw? Also, I didn't realize that B1 mode was 480p only.

So now I would like your opinion on something. As I said, my TV's native resolution is 1920x1080. It has a built-in scaler which does 720p or 480p okay, but obviously anything lower than that looks like crap - which is why I'm considering buying an XRGB-3. What I'm wondering is whether it's possible to get a 1080p signal from the XRGB-3 (which that XRGB wiki article I referenced seems to suggest it might not be), and if not - if the best it can do is 720p or something like that - will the image look okay? Just the idea of upscaling an image with the XRGB-3 and then upscaling THAT image again seems kind of ridiculous - and like it might cause the image to lose some quality. I mean, XRGB-3s are pretty expensive, so if there's any sort of compromise image-wise I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Thank you for your responses, and I apologize for my ignorance.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:29 am

So how could the output of an older console be progressive-scan if the only TVs available accepted only interlaced video? Is there something I'm missing here?

that's a common misconception since EDTV (480/576p) has been marketed as "progressive scan" about 10 years ago. Back in the days 240p wasn't called progressive, it was usually called "non-interlaced". I tried to explain this above already. I'll give it another try though

15khz signals (SD) can be interlaced (480i) or progressive (240p). Both signals consist of 60 240-line fields per second. Classic arcade games (and home console systems) have always been progressive. on progressive signals the fields are shown without any vertical offset to each other. Each field is one frame.

On interlaced signals (480i) two 240-line fields make up one frame. The difference in processing is that progressive signals (15khz SD 240p) has just to be upscaled (linedoubled), while interlaced signals (480i) have to deinterlaced properly (= applying different types of deinterlacing algorithms depending on the actual content).

Really? I thought one of the major draws of the XRGB-3 was the scanlines. If not that, then what is the draw?

The selling point of the XRGB has always been the proper 240p recognition. On the XRGB-3 the main selling point is the pixel-perfect upscaling to your display's resolution (in B0 mode).

It has a built-in scaler which does 720p or 480p okay, but obviously anything lower than that looks like crap - which is why I'm considering buying an XRGB-3

anything lower looks like crap because the initial processing and the deinterlacing is crappy, *NOT* because the scaler sucks. Most likely (99%) your TV can't even tell 240p from 480i and just tries to deinterlace 240p all over again. The XRGB-3 is your best choice. If you like scanlines (and lagfree processing), you'll go with B1 anyway. In B1 your TV will do the scaling from 480p to 1080p. If you can live without scanlines and with a bit of lag (2 frames) you can use B0 instead. The XRGB-3 was built for PC resolution, not for HD timings. 1080p doesn't work on my TV, it might on yours. 720p is not available, but resolutions like 1680x1050 and other PC timings are available.

Your misconception is that you see the "240p->480p" as scaling. Actually you're right, but usually this step is called linedoubling or deinterlacing (even if with 240p no real deinterlacing happens) and only the step after that (e.g. 480p to 1080p) is refered to as scaling.

Don't worry about your TV rescaling the picture. You've seen all the great XRGB-3 screenshots with scanlines. Those have all been taken with 480p output from the XRGB and additional scaling on the TV.

ShutokouBattle · Post by **ShutokouBattle** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:48 am

Okay, I think I understand. So how does the XRGB-3 do with 480i and other interlaced formats? What about those Saturn games like Virtua Fighter 2 that run at a higher resolution? Those would be interlaced, right? How well does the XRGB-3 handle content like that?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:52 pm

So how does the XRGB-3 do with 480i and other interlaced formats?

very bad in B0 and completely different in B1.

480i doesn't get deinterlaced in B1 mode. The XRGB does a CRT simulation by just displaying one field at a time. It kinda looks like on a CRT. For fast action 480i games that's actually quite ok, but if you plan on playing lot of 480i RPGs you should get something different for them.

darthcloud · Post by **darthcloud** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:39 pm

Hi,

I currently looking to replace my XRGB3 with something better for 480i signal.

Any suggestion?

I'm quite happy with my Panny HDTV upscaling and desinterlacing.

I just need something to convert 480i RGBS to 480i YUV or maybe something that desinterlace to VGA 480p.

Maybe Extron as something for this or any other manufacturer?

shmups.system11.org

XRGB-3

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Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3

Re: XRGB-3