TFIV Rebirth dev thread

[BPzeBanshee]

Not exactly, there are n paths to the exit, one of them only has the claws the other have the sever laser.

I was actually referring to say, getting CLAWs in the tunnels and then getting the Sever in Stage 3 or during the popcorn attack AFTER the tunnels.

But this is a spin-off so here this is not Orn nor GF technology This is just a guardian programmed by its owner

I guess this is one of those disagreements in game direction and design that has already from the beginning and will continue to divide opinions about this game. One side of extremes will happily write off technicalities while the other side will totally despise, slag off and abandon the game for its derivation from the standard that it tries to bounce off from (in this case the Thunderforce series). Personally I'd LIKE to see the game use self-made sprites that were more relevant to what you're trying to use them for but at the same time I can't demand that because I know how difficult it is to do just that. Others wont see things from my view though.

In the meantime, at least change the colour tint of it - as it is it's Orn tech in its original colour patten and design no matter what way you look at it since it came straight off an Orn Carrier to begin with (TF4) and there's no way a real TF fan would just accept it as it is now willy nilly, know what I'm saying?

[wondersonic]

Not exactly, there are n paths to the exit, one of them only has the claws the other have the sever laser.

I was actually referring to say, getting CLAWs in the tunnels and then getting the Sever in Stage 3 or during the popcorn attack AFTER the tunnels.

Hmmm I don't think so since the second part will not take too long. Maybe for a more diffcult level (I'll have to tune this point).

But this is a spin-off so here this is not Orn nor GF technology This is just a guardian programmed by its owner

I guess this is one of those disagreements in game direction and design that has already from the beginning and will continue to divide opinions about this game. One side of extremes will happily write off technicalities while the other side will totally despise, slag off and abandon the game for its derivation from the standard that it tries to bounce off from (in this case the Thunderforce series). Personally I'd LIKE to see the game use self-made sprites that were more relevant to what you're trying to use them for but at the same time I can't demand that because I know how difficult it is to do just that. Others wont see things from my view though.

In the meantime, at least change the colour tint of it - as it is it's Orn tech in its original colour patten and design no matter what way you look at it since it came straight off an Orn Carrier to begin with (TF4) and there's no way a real TF fan would just accept it as it is now willy nilly, know what I'm saying?

I know, I know I also would like to make sprites myself but at the time being I'm more fighting against time to be able to work on this project. Vacations being ended, I'll have less sparetime for it. However, I've made some tries regarding color modifications (which are reversible if they don't fit).

So far, I've finally found what the first boss will be (according to the next level and to the main scenario). I've to say that I'm also experimenting things to improve performances (3D consumes a lot of CPU). Hopefully, I'm coding the game on a computer having limited opengl compatibility (1.5) and thus I have very good results on newer hardware!

[wondersonic]

Boss WIP:

[BPzeBanshee]

The colouring is better, though maybe a bit too bright. Or is that actually a flash effect?

As for the hardware limit I deal with a few extremes - the best machine I have in the house is three years old and runs most modern games of this calibre with no problems. The worst machine is my legacy machine dualbooting Ubuntu and XP (Ubuntu needs updated Java version AGAIN and XP is screwed from a failed experiment (GameXP = FAIL) so I have to do something about it when I get back from holidays), it ran earlier versions of TF4R with some frame rate issues on Windows and ran miserably on Ubuntu.
So bottom line is if you can improve the frame rate on legacy machines it'd be great but this is a difficult task at best since you're using Java with mixture of 2d and 3d graphics. It's probably worse than whatever machine you're using for coding the game on to begin with anyday despite having a graphics card beyond its years in terms of performance.

[wondersonic]

The colouring is better, though maybe a bit too bright. Or is that actually a flash effect?

Definitely too bright!

As for the hardware limit I deal with a few extremes - the best machine I have in the house is three years old and runs most modern games of this calibre with no problems. The worst machine is my legacy machine dualbooting Ubuntu and XP (Ubuntu needs updated Java version AGAIN and XP is screwed from a failed experiment (GameXP = FAIL) so I have to do something about it when I get back from holidays), it ran earlier versions of TF4R with some frame rate issues on Windows and ran miserably on Ubuntu.
So bottom line is if you can improve the frame rate on legacy machines it'd be great but this is a difficult task at best since you're using Java with mixture of 2d and 3d graphics. It's probably worse than whatever machine you're using for coding the game on to begin with anyday despite having a graphics card beyond its years in terms of performance.

Hopefully I've got plenty ideas to improve the performances!

[wondersonic]

Boss WIP:

[BPzeBanshee]

Much better, though you may want to look closely at how you've layered some of the entities (though I cant do that till I see video footage).

The aura is also a point of interest/concern for me, again I'd like to see that in animation at some stage. At the moment I'm on Prepaid internet which sucks since I dont have my USB and cant download games like XF-R, so as I've mentioned before I'll take a closer look when I get back from Queensland.

[wondersonic]

Much better, though you may want to look closely at how you've layered some of the entities (though I cant do that till I see video footage).

The aura is also a point of interest/concern for me, again I'd like to see that in animation at some stage.

Every enemies bullets are displayed above ennemies

Indeed when everything is moving, it is better. I'll post a video this we and maybe release v0.13.

At the moment I'm on Prepaid internet which sucks since I dont have my USB and cant download games like XF-R, so as I've mentioned before I'll take a closer look when I get back from Queensland.

Ok

[wondersonic]

v0.13 coming soon...

[Aguraki]

v0.13 coming soon...

wow this looks great!
I did see the OP a while ago and didn't think much of it,but this video is very promising.

good luck with your project

[wondersonic]

v0.13 coming soon...

wow this looks great!
I did see the OP a while ago and didn't think much of it,but this video is very promising.

good luck with your project

Thanks!

This second level took me 3 months to develop. The end is very close and I can't wait to start developping the third one! I've got plenty ideas!!!

[BPzeBanshee]

That's some nice work you got there - I'm curious to see how well you survive WITHOUT invincible mode though, it looks terribly hard.

I'm not so sure about the straight-firing lasers moving forward while shooting out, I think it would look a lot more like TF4 if they were to stay still as they fired from the guardian, so they weren't affected by scrolling. I'm not sure how to explain this, but look at how Faust and this thing did it in the original game and you'll see what I mean.
Another idea would be for a proper death besides a few bubbles and death - the original Orn ship in TF4 showed signs of damage in its movement and explosions around it, followed by moving out of the screen afterwards (ala Stage 5 in TF4 in other words).
Also, good use of the Stargate laser (not exactly wormhole style but LOL anyway ), exactly the kind of thing I was looking to see to demonstrate where the laser came from. A little bit more warning would be nice though, seems in the video like you haven't quite gotten that right for timing as the sound plays before the laser appears and and when it does appear its very instant but its close to traditional method. Maybe a brief second before the laser as the Guardian dodges, like the Stage 10 Faust battle?

Oh, and nice Display Picture. Made it yourself or rendered with some program?

[wondersonic]

That's some nice work you got there - I'm curious to see how well you survive WITHOUT invincible mode though, it looks terribly hard.

In fact not really. The patterns are somewhat easy to understand. (Hint: you have to take some little risks here)

I'm not so sure about the straight-firing lasers moving forward while shooting out, I think it would look a lot more like TF4 if they were to stay still as they fired from the guardian, so they weren't affected by scrolling. I'm not sure how to explain this, but look at how Faust and this thing did it in the original game and you'll see what I mean.

In fact the lasers are not affected by scrolling, the fact is they just are homing lasers (but during a short period of time). I'm just moving to dodge them.

Another idea would be for a proper death besides a few bubbles and death - the original Orn ship in TF4 showed signs of damage in its movement and explosions around it, followed by moving out of the screen afterwards (ala Stage 5 in TF4 in other words).

You are right, I've got to manage boss explosions indeed!

Also, good use of the Stargate laser (not exactly wormhole style but LOL anyway ), exactly the kind of thing I was looking to see to demonstrate where the laser came from. A little bit more warning would be nice though, seems in the video like you haven't quite gotten that right for timing as the sound plays before the laser appears and and when it does appear its very instant but its close to traditional method. Maybe a brief second before the laser as the Guardian dodges, like the Stage 10 Faust battle?

I'll increase "warning duration" by some ms according to mission level.

Oh, and nice Display Picture. Made it yourself or rendered with some program?

The stargate portal is rendered in realtime thanks to opengl!!!

[BPzeBanshee]

In fact the lasers are not affected by scrolling, the fact is they just are homing lasers (but during a short period of time). I'm just moving to dodge them.

I was referring to the lasers that shot in many forward directions outwards, from where the 'guardian' actually opens up some kind of cover. The purple/pink/one-of-the-two-idontremember laser ones in its second phase look just fine, though they're not exactly fitting in with the general sprite quality they're quite obviously homing lasers.

The stargate portal is rendered in realtime thanks to opengl!!!

Your user avatar, here on the forums, the one that I see on your name, is a Stargate portal?

.....

But it looks more like some kind of electric storm you'd see in the Bermuda Triangle just before your plane divides by zero never to be seen again!

[wondersonic]

In fact the lasers are not affected by scrolling, the fact is they just are homing lasers (but during a short period of time). I'm just moving to dodge them.

I was referring to the lasers that shot in many forward directions outwards, from where the 'guardian' actually opens up some kind of cover. The purple/pink/one-of-the-two-idontremember laser ones in its second phase look just fine, though they're not exactly fitting in with the general sprite quality they're quite obviously homing lasers.

The stargate portal is rendered in realtime thanks to opengl!!!

Your user avatar, here on the forums, the one that I see on your name, is a Stargate portal?

.....

But it looks more like some kind of electric storm you'd see in the Bermuda Triangle just before your plane divides by zero never to be seen again!

Seems I was a little tired when I answered your questions

Regarding the fifth-way laser (let's call it like this) is indeed "weird". I'll make the robot stop when it shoots these.

Display picture = avatar = picture found on internet (I don't remember where but I just modified it to fit my needs ).

[BPzeBanshee]

I thought it was me needing to get some sleep lol. Ah well, I'll have a new animated GIF for my Eonis Crystal (display avatar is of older version) at some stage soon anyway.

[wondersonic]

Version 0.13 available

Release notes:
General
- added music title information
- improved collision detection performances
- tons of bugs corrected
Level 2
- added space portal
- added boss
- added level ending
- added new ennemy
WIP
- implement scoring system for second level (chaining)
- learn how to implement clouds in realtime with opengl (for 3rd level........)


Cheers,
WS

[BPzeBanshee]

Remember that chaining is going to need something obvious if there's time limits involved, otherwise it'll end up like ESPRade which while its a brilliant game left much of the people on these forums going WTFBBQ in terms of how to get x16 bonuses.
I'll be back in Darwin by the end of the weekend, then I should be able to test this out (at least on Mac and Windows).

EDIT: I got onto an internet cafe by chance and got to test this, and after installing latest Java and all, I get this error on both the current release and the older one that I had.
Now I'm fairly certain this release would work on my computer at home and I did get it to work earlier on a friend's Vista laptop but would you mind explaining why it isnt working on what appears to be a standard Pentium 4 machine? I installed standard Java and a form of OpenAL that I had on my USB (not that it should matter since your drivers are included), is there some other requirement I dont know about?

[wondersonic]

Code: Select all

Stack: [0x008c0000,0x00910000],  sp=0x0090f710,  free space=13d0090f244k
Java frames: (J=compiled Java code, j=interpreted, Vv=VM code)
j  org.lwjgl.opengl.GL15.nglGenQueries(ILjava/nio/IntBuffer;IJ)V+0
j  org.lwjgl.opengl.GL15.glGenQueries(Ljava/nio/IntBuffer;)V+27
j  tf4r.game.CollisionManager.initialize()V+6

The error seems to come from the OpenGL driver installed (or not installed ).

opengl.GL15.nglGenQueries

The glGenQueries present in the 1.5 version of opengl is not here thus denoting the opengl version supported is not at least the 1.5 which is the only requirement regarding video capabilities.

If you look at the first lines in out.log, you should see some text as following:

Code: Select all

Checking system capabilities...
	- Video:
		- Mode: 640x480@60Hz
		- Alpha bits: OK (8)
		- Depth bits: OK (24)
		- Stencil bits: OK (8)
		- Vertex Buffer Object: OK
		- Maximum texture size: 2048x2048
		- S3TC texture compression: deactivated

Whereas nothing refers to ARB occlusion queries, I'll add the info in the next release in this precise file to quickly find the culprit.

BTW, try updating the video drivers to the last version!

Regarding chaining, I'll follow your advice thanks

Good luck

[BPzeBanshee]

It was an internet cafe one, and it seemed to have a fair few problems loading certain kinds of games so I'd conclude the driver update issue on that machine was worse than I thought.

So, I get back from Queensland today, internet played up a little bit, then I got TF4R working. I had problems chaining in Stage 1 because of the ridiculous amount of rocks and spiders shooting lasers even larger than what they were before but I survived.
I make it through the tunnels allright (failed to get the CLAWs, missed the opening point and got Sever), thanks for finally making the block at the end destroyable by the way, and start playing against the little midget enemies.....

Suddenly, this strangely-coloured version of the Stage 1 midboss from TF III comes out of nowhere and overwhelms me along with:
1. The asteroid shooting lasers
2. The popcorn enemies running into me
3. Those same popcorn enemies shooting tiny bullets that are hugely annoying, hard to dodge in large amounts and pretty much guarantee my death.

Also, having CLAWs results in a death against the stupid block at the end of the tunnel. Sever kills it off in a second.

[wondersonic]

So, I get back from Queensland today, internet played up a little bit, then I got TF4R working. I had problems chaining in Stage 1 because of the ridiculous amount of rocks and spiders shooting lasers even larger than what they were before but I survived.

I'll correct the chaining prerequisites so that ther'll be enough golden asteroids. I also note your remark regarding laser size (note: this was part of the general upscaling task).

I make it through the tunnels allright (failed to get the CLAWs, missed the opening point and got Sever), thanks for finally making the block at the end destroyable by the way, and start playing against the little midget enemies.....

Congrats

Suddenly, this strangely-coloured version of the Stage 1 midboss from TF III comes out of nowhere and overwhelms me along with:
1. The asteroid shooting lasers
2. The popcorn enemies running into me
3. Those same popcorn enemies shooting tiny bullets that are hugely annoying, hard to dodge in large amounts and pretty much guarantee my death.

Oh, are you saying this was too much?

I can reduce the number of "popcorn" and you have to know that their bullets can't come from behind you...

About the "strangely-coloured version of the Stage 1 midboss" did you like the surprise? I tried to make it as close (but the colors ) to the TFIII version (currently without the missiles though).

I hope you succeed to reach the level 2 boss...

Also, having CLAWs results in a death against the stupid block at the end of the tunnel. Sever kills it off in a second.

Noted, something to adjust regarding recent fire speed modifications.

As you can see some adjustements must be made regarding difficulty (for the 4 possible mission levels from easy to maniac). I'm listening your remarks regarding this aspect of the level. BTW, you can modify the starting level in the game.properties

[wondersonic]

WIP for v0.14:
- added system capabilities info regarding occlusion query (opengl 1.5 required, to check with )
- reduced spider laser size
- increased number of asteroids generated
- ensured golden asteroids are generated
- corrected end of corridors wall "life points"
- started third level named "Chaos"

[BPzeBanshee]

Firstly, I have only been playing on Easy mode and I find it difficult at best as it is. I tried Stage 1 on Maniac and found myself getting Game Over halfway through the level.

As for the Stage 2 midboss, I was quite interested to see it pop up out of nowhere (it didnt come from the asteroid like the others). And I dont recall it having missiles, might be my memory there.

And....increased number of asteroids? I think you misunderstood my previous post. There's too many, blarghablarghablargh!
Ever gotten up to the later stages of Raiden/II? That uses clusters of asteroids in groups as much as what you have going all the time but in waves.

Last thing - how do you get invincibility mode? Is it possible to change this in the config file?

[wondersonic]

Firstly, I have only been playing on Easy mode and I find it difficult at best as it is. I tried Stage 1 on Maniac and found myself getting Game Over halfway through the level.

Interesting.

As for the Stage 2 midboss, I was quite interested to see it pop up out of nowhere (it didnt come from the asteroid like the others). And I dont recall it having missiles, might be my memory there.

Yes, the ennemy is here and (say it's some sort of creature being there "naturally").

And....increased number of asteroids? I think you misunderstood my previous post. There's too many, blarghablarghablargh!

ok, I've rolled back modifications regarding asteroids generation

Ever gotten up to the later stages of Raiden/II? That uses clusters of asteroids in groups as much as what you have going all the time but in waves.

Played it a long time ago ^_^ so I don't remember it.

Last thing - how do you get invincibility mode? Is it possible to change this in the config file?

=> pm

[wondersonic]

And now is the time to develop level 3 (Chaos).

Following is the current scenario (that will surely change ):

1- the Styx arrives through the space portal on the Galaxy Federation planet (music: Steel Of Destiny -Take Off-):
the styx will fly through the exit (sort of 3D tube) and fly in a blue bright sky with clouds...
you inform your high commandment that you are back and alive
2- but soon you cross some ships armada flying in the very same direction as you (about to land, you pass through the clouds)
3- some ships leave the ennemy formation and start to attack the Styx; and they don't seem very happy to see you
4- you are now under the sky and a storm is starting while the GF contacts you back to avert you they are under massiv attack:
some new unknown enemy (that'll use alien technology like teleportation, mind control...)
5- while fighting until being somewhere above the main city, the GF inform you they are sending a new battle ship prototype:
The Rynext <- or another cool name ala Rynex/Styx/Syrinx (i.e. a name containing a y and an x )
6- you let the Styx and join the Rynext (a mini-scene can be added to show you are not very aware with this new ship during the
10 first seconds: we can imagine the new ship flying through buildings for any reason and the only chance to not loose a life will be to
fire and create a passage through some buildings)
7- you join the hard battle inside the city
8- after one minute the city in the background is simply destroyed with a big explosion ala akira (why not white screen, black rendered ennemies)
9- then a desolation background and the boss appear

I'm pretty confident with points 1,2,3,4 and 8 although any proposition is welcomed!

Point 5 and above will not be developed until 2 months.

Also, what will made this "Rynext" more powerful than the Rynex?
What will the boss and enemies look like?
...

Cheers,
WS

[Kaiser]

About point 8. How about player has a huge friendly battleship causing a havoc in the city too. It should be in the friendly armada you mentioned.. And that it would get shot down by the stage 3 boss possibly (if it's that powerful, if not possibly some later boss). And SIMPLY, the battleship would CRASH into the city thus causing a MASSIVE explosion where nearly everyone gets killed except you and enemies. That's my take on it.

[wondersonic]

About point 8. How about player has a huge friendly battleship causing a havoc in the city too. It should be in the friendly armada you mentioned.. And that it would get shot down by the stage 3 boss possibly (if it's that powerful, if not possibly some later boss). And SIMPLY, the battleship would CRASH into the city thus causing a MASSIVE explosion where nearly everyone gets killed except you and enemies. That's my take on it.

Good idea! I was wondering if the new enemies mega boss would not come itself and set its new HQ on the GF HQ

But a big battleship just crashing on the city is also good and does not imply the final mega boss to appear so early in the game

Maybe this battleship had the ultimate weapon aboard and it just failed to use it so by crashing on the city this weapon is just being exploding...

Note: I really want this explosion to be the important point of this level as well as getting the new ship

[BPzeBanshee]

I'm still conserned about getting the difficulty issue and Stage 2 just right before going onto serious coding for Stage 3, but while I recall:

Firstly, unless you're going to be consistent in using Broken Thunder-quality music, dont use -Take off- version. If you plan on using the whole track in its entirely the ~Original Sound Long Version~ is much better and more fitting to the other tracks.

I like Kaiser's idea. Hyper Duel, a game made by Technosoft in the same era as TFIV had a visual effect used in a similar manner. Looking at your picture there I think they're pretty much one and the same.... I suspect you already knew this .

As for the 'unkown enemy', I recall most of the Megadrive games I played that portrayed psychic powers with floating balls. Lightning balls are especially cool.

Hell, even Dr. Eggman had a machine that attacked with floating balls.

You could have enemies (such as the brain-looking thing from TF2 in Stage 1) as an enemy with it's attack being oriented around alternating directions from the balls. Faust used a move in Stage 10 of TF4 with two balls and a bolt of lightning streaming from inbetween them, spreading outwards and inwards, make your own spin on that perhaps.

[BPzeBanshee]

Wanna see how hard this game is right now? Watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9zWIrnsOA

[Kaiser]

Wanna see how hard this game is right now? Watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9zWIrnsOA

Looks like WONDERSONIC must balance this out before taking on stage 3. No way around it.