Newbie to the genre, need a couple of suggestions

[Nemphtis]

Hi everyone, I'm a pretty casual shoot'em up enthusiast and I need some advice on picking my next game. I'm looking for a specific type of shoot'em up and I'm not sure how to find these games myself so I'm hoping the more knowledgeable among you can point me to a few games that fit my needs.

Basically, I'm trying to find some shmups where the game isn't about memorising enemy attack formations, but randomly generated so it's different each time you play it. I've played some titles from Cave but I think all the ones I played had pre-defined enemy attack patterns, I have ESP Galuda II and DonDonPachi on my iPhone, they play surprisingly well on the device in comparison to other shmups I've purchased for it.

So are there any exceptionally awesome shoot'em ups with randomly generated patterns for those of us who don't want to bother memorising them and just want to dodge a bunch of bullets whilst racking up a score. Bonus points if anyone has any good iPhone suggestions so I can also play'em at work. I also don't mind any recommendations of shmups you believe must be played for new players to the genre.

Would appreciate any advice I can get on this matter, thanks. :]

[Obiwanshinobi]

Shmups by Compile (Zanac, Seirei Senshi Spriggan...) tend to have somewhat "floaty" design (a feature, in a way, emulated by Rez). Other commendable titles would be Forever Warning and Battle Garegga (sadly, Garegga in MAME has quite laggy controls, even with this).
If you get a hold of Zanac X Zanac compilation, which you can buy off the Japanese PlayStation Store, make sure to play Zanac Special Version. Just saying.

[TidusBlade]

Don't think I've heard of any good randomly generated shmups, all I read was that the enemies form a real mess sometimes which makes them a bit unplayable but there's probably ways to code around that.

I'm guessing tons of people would disagree, but as a beginner too, I would suggest you give Touhou a try (I've mainly played Perfect Cherry Blossom and Imperishable Night so probably those). It's not randomly generated or anything, it's all pre-determined patterns and stuff but I didn't have to memorize anything and I'm not dying on stage 2 lol. It's not too hard either when compared to most other shmups, it's actually pretty generous when it comes to lives and bombs (death bombing but the penalty...), and most of the patterns can be dodged without memorization on Easy/Normal in my experience, some might just take a bit of time so you know what to expect and focus mode makes it so much easier. Of course, once you get to stage 6 or the extra stage you won't get very far without it though xD

[Davey]

So are there any exceptionally awesome shoot'em ups with randomly generated patterns for those of us who don't want to bother memorising them and just want to dodge a bunch of bullets whilst racking up a score. Bonus points if anyone has any good iPhone suggestions so I can also play'em at work.

Try Kenta Cho's games: Link

The last couple games were kind of meh, but they're all free, so have at it. I think some of them have been ported to iPhone (Noiz2sa, at least).

Similarly, check out nomltest.

AFAIK there really aren't any professionally developed shmups that are random; Zanac is the closest thing I can think of.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you just like your shmups acting differently during each run, play something with rank and/or randomised order of stages: Pulstar, Sonic Wings Special (provided you can put your TV on its side), Dragon Blaze (don't forget about the third button), Space Bomber, Twinkle Star Sprites...

[monkeyman]

Arena shooters are probably your best bet if it comes to random patters and reflex gameplay. Geometry Wars is always a good bet and there's versions on xbox, wii and ds (don't think there's an iphone port).

[TidusBlade]

don't think there's an iphone port

Actually there is one which isn't too bad except I found it hard to control, not really worth the $5 imo but that's probably 'cause I already played the PC version to death.

[Nemphtis]

I love Kenta Cho's games as they do indeed seem randomly generated from what I could tell. Titanion is one of my personal favourites as it's one of the first shmups where I started racking up a semi-decent high score. I will try and check some of the easier to acquire games mentioned when I get home from work today.

I really like Cave's titles but again it's just the fact I have to memorise patterns to stand a chance at higher dificulties. It's a bit hypocritical but I don't mind trying to figure out how to avoid bullet patterns in boss fights but learning enemy locations is where I draw the line. I see a lot of YouTube videos where players know where ships are coming from so they're already shooting before they spawn.

[njiska]

We've been playing Cyvern this past week for STGT 2010 and while most of the patterns are pre-defined there's some variance in where the enemies appear. Not a terrible shmup either.

[KMM]

Every Extend, on PC, is freeware; there's a port/sequel, Every Extend Extra, on the PSP, and a further reworking, Every Extend Extra Extreme, on XBLA. All feature randomly-generated levels. The game itself may not be what you're looking for, though - it's a suicide-'em-up, by which I mean your only form of attack is detonating your own ship. (It works a lot better in practice than it sounds on paper.) There's a lot of dodging to be done, and scoring well is based on timing your detonations right for chaining, but it's all single-screen, and it's not too hard. Overall, it's quite fun.

[Nemphtis]

So are there any exceptionally awesome shoot'em ups with randomly generated patterns for those of us who don't want to bother memorising them and just want to dodge a bunch of bullets whilst racking up a score. Bonus points if anyone has any good iPhone suggestions so I can also play'em at work.

Try Kenta Cho's games: Link

The last couple games were kind of meh, but they're all free, so have at it. I think some of them have been ported to iPhone (Noiz2sa, at least).

Similarly, check out nomltest.

AFAIK there really aren't any professionally developed shmups that are random; Zanac is the closest thing I can think of.

Just checked out some videos of Nimltest, if it is indeed randomly generated then it sure looks like my cup of tea! Freeware too, so that's cool. :]

Arena shooters are probably your best bet if it comes to random patters and reflex gameplay. Geometry Wars is always a good bet and there's versions on xbox, wii and ds (don't think there's an iphone port).

Already have both GW games, not played them in ages though. They're excellent games, but I don't find arena shooters as fun as the scrolling ones.

Every Extend, on PC, is freeware; there's a port/sequel, Every Extend Extra, on the PSP, and a further reworking, Every Extend Extra Extreme, on XBLA. All feature randomly-generated levels. The game itself may not be what you're looking for, though - it's a suicide-'em-up, by which I mean your only form of attack is detonating your own ship. (It works a lot better in practice than it sounds on paper.) There's a lot of dodging to be done, and scoring well is based on timing your detonations right for chaining, but it's all single-screen, and it's not too hard. Overall, it's quite fun.

I also have Every Extend Extra on XBLA. If memory serves me correct, I had to review it for a website so was given a free promo download code and it was good fun but not the kind of shmup I'm currently looking to play. I want something that's bullet hell, but randomly generated enemies. I imagine Kenta Cho's works are as close as I'll get for now, but I was hoping you guys might know of a bunch of other titles like this.

----

I would like to buy a bunch of Cave's shooters and the Tohou games as I've heard very good things about both - can anyone tell me where's the best place to purchase these titles? Are they even localized or do you guys just play JP imports or something? I want to check out Perfect Cherry Blossom at the very least as I've heard good things. I really like the style of these games but damn, when shmups are randomly generated it just feels better for me as it becomes less about who spent the most time memorising the game and more about who's fastest at reacting and navigating a fuck-ton of bullets on the fly. Still, seeing as the type of games I seek aren't very prominent, I assume the majority of shmup enthusiasts would disagree with my opinion and enjoy that element of the game.

[Thjodbjorn]

I would think bullet hell would be EXTREMELY difficult, if not impossible to have random swarms in. Maybe variable pre-programmed swarms?

But I'm pretty new myself, but I'm not nearly good enough that I have to worry about getting bored by the same patterns. Mushi Futari has enough modes in it that differ enough that I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[blotto]

Self Destruct

[Nemphtis]

Just played Nomltest now, it's pretty much exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for in terms of mechanics. :]

EDIT

Blotto, the visuals of that game looks sexy as hell, definitely going to give that a spin in a minute.

Just had a few games, could be addictive, hard to tell since I suck at it right now, though Nomltest seems more my style.

[msm]

I really like Cave's titles but again it's just the fact I have to memorise patterns to stand a chance at higher dificulties. It's a bit hypocritical but I don't mind trying to figure out how to avoid bullet patterns in boss fights but learning enemy locations is where I draw the line. I see a lot of YouTube videos where players know where ships are coming from so they're already shooting before they spawn.

i'd just go for more cave stuff, you're right to get the best scores you have to memorise a lot of stuff, but for survival and a little scoring you don't have to memorise much and they're loads of fun i don't really like memorisation either.

you can get mushihimesama futari and espgaluda 2 (normal edition only) for 360 from play-asia, they're both region free but expensive though.

http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-br- ... -3cq6.html
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-br- ... -3j1d.html

also are you Nemphtis on xbox live?

[TidusBlade]

I would like to buy a bunch of Cave's shooters and the Tohou games as I've heard very good things about both - can anyone tell me where's the best place to purchase these titles? Are they even localized or do you guys just play JP imports or something? I want to check out Perfect Cherry Blossom at the very least as I've heard good things. I really like the style of these games but damn, when shmups are randomly generated it just feels better for me as it becomes less about who spent the most time memorising the game and more about who's fastest at reacting and navigating a fuck-ton of bullets on the fly. Still, seeing as the type of games I seek aren't very prominent, I assume the majority of shmup enthusiasts would disagree with my opinion and enjoy that element of the game.

Haha you're not alone, being the roguelike addict I am, I always wanted to play a randomly generated shmup (Nethack shmup, that would be godly :O), too bad I'm too impatient to even program a game <_<

Anyways, yeah if you're looking for Cave titles, imports are pretty much your only choice. Luckily some titles are region free (Namely Mushi Futari and ESPGaluda II on the 360) and they also got a bunch of titles on the PS2 but I dunno much about PS2 and different region games so maybe someone else can clear it up. eBay and the trading subforum are probably your best bets here. You might wanna check out some of the older ones on MAME as well and they have ports on the PSX and Saturn iirc. Doubt you're looking for PCB's, not that I have a good idea where to get them anyways xD

As for Touhou, the Touhou Wiki has a whole page dedicated to finding the stuff online here. I rarely see them (mostly the older ones) on eBay so I guess stick to the links.

And damn, I think I'm gonna go give nomltest a try, haven't played much today and it sounds good.

[BIL]

Luckily some titles are region free (Namely Mushi Futari and ESPGaluda II on the 360) and they also got a bunch of titles on the PS2 but I dunno much about PS2 and different region games so maybe someone else can clear it up.

All four of Cave's PS2 ports (DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou, ESPGaluda, Mushihimesama and Ibara) are Japan region only.

[Nemphtis]

also are you Nemphtis on xbox live?

I am. I use the same user name everywhere, I take it you've played me on there or bumped into my blog?

I would love to try creating my own shmup but I couldn't code my way out of a box of Pocky, still the mere thought of it alone is an awesome one even though I'll probably end up removing most of the ideas because they wouldn't be very balanced upon closer inspection. I forgot to mention in my previous posts but I already have Warning Forever, which is an awesome game. By the way, you guys ever have that problem where your arrow keys won't register when multiple keys are pressed at once? It's not a problem for me right now, but I've experienced it in the past and it really kills the game when you can't manoeuvre properly because of it. Always wondered what the cause of that was.

[gs68]

rRootage's nR stages.

[Zetzumarshen]

By the way, you guys ever have that problem where your arrow keys won't register when multiple keys are pressed at once? It's not a problem for me right now, but I've experienced it in the past and it really kills the game when you can't manoeuvre properly because of it. Always wondered what the cause of that was.

It is called keyboard ghosting. Use this link http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscience ... gDemo.mspx to test it.

[dpful]

If you ever get a chance to play dodonpachi 2 bee storm, it transcends memorization. Just lines of guys coming down and parking lots full of tanks.

[ROBOTRON]

Hi everyone, I'm a pretty casual shoot'em up enthusiast and I need some advice on picking my next game. I'm looking for a specific type of shoot'em up and I'm not sure how to find these games myself so I'm hoping the more knowledgeable among you can point me to a few games that fit my needs.

Basically, I'm trying to find some shmups where the game isn't about memorising enemy attack formations, but randomly generated so it's different each time you play it. I've played some titles from Cave but I think all the ones I played had pre-defined enemy attack patterns, I have ESP Galuda II and DonDonPachi on my iPhone, they play surprisingly well on the device in comparison to other shmups I've purchased for it.

So are there any exceptionally awesome shoot'em ups with randomly generated patterns for those of us who don't want to bother memorising them and just want to dodge a bunch of bullets whilst racking up a score. Bonus points if anyone has any good iPhone suggestions so I can also play'em at work. I also don't mind any recommendations of shmups you believe must be played for new players to the genre.

Would appreciate any advice I can get on this matter, thanks. :]

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Hop a cab to a strip joint, masturbate....and then return to shmups11.org and lets see what you can chew. Welcoming!

[Snake]

I really like Cave's titles but again it's just the fact I have to memorise patterns to stand a chance at higher dificulties. It's a bit hypocritical but I don't mind trying to figure out how to avoid bullet patterns in boss fights but learning enemy locations is where I draw the line. I see a lot of YouTube videos where players know where ships are coming from so they're already shooting before they spawn.

I'd go with Psikyo games to ease you into it. You have to memorize for higher-level play, but a whole loop is about 10 minutes tops, and the stages are short. And they are mostly excellent games.

[Subterranean Sun]

Total memorize or die. This is the harsh law of the genre. A shmup that needs no memorizing can't be good, unless it's an arena shmup.

[Rob]

Try some older arcade shooters like Juno First and Vulgus.

I'd go with Psikyo games to ease you into it.

Ease into catching bullets with teeth.

[TLB]

The kinds of games you're looking for aren't really very common, because they tend to suck immense penis.
The main draw behind these games is competition and building skill at exploiting a set system. Putting random shit all over it isn't really conducive to that.

[msm]

also are you Nemphtis on xbox live?

I am. I use the same user name everywhere, I take it you've played me on there or bumped into my blog?

yeah i'm from dvdf-xbox.co.uk - think we had some clan matches some time ago?

good luck with your shmupping!

oh and metal torrent on dsi ware has a random enemy mode which is fun.

[Nemphtis]

It is called keyboard ghosting. Use this link http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscience ... gDemo.mspx to test it.

Used the demo on that page and found an obvious ghost on my arrow keys. I guess I'll be needing a new keyboard.

I'd go with Psikyo games to ease you into it. You have to memorize for higher-level play, but a whole loop is about 10 minutes tops, and the stages are short. And they are mostly excellent games.

Assuming their games are easy to acquire I'll pick one of their games up. :]

Total memorize or die. This is the harsh law of the genre. A shmup that needs no memorizing can't be good, unless it's an arena shmup.

I'll see how it goes, if I can't get into the whole memorisation thing I might just as well focus on arena shooters.

yeah i'm from dvdf-xbox.co.uk - think we had some clan matches some time ago?

Ah yeah, I remember DVDF, it's been a while since we've had some matches. :]

[nimitz]

The #1 reason people ask for this when they are relatively new to the genre is because they are still not very good at dodging bullets.

Decent players can get usually get to stage 5 of a random shmup with no prior knowledge of the game whatsoever. There are very few shmups that require memorization to make any progress.

So my best advice is play the shmups you like instead of trying to find something that really can't be done.

Or if you really don't want to play the same game twice, you can play every shmup only once, there are thousands of shmups around, so even if you do that you have quite a bit of time to get better.

[CptRansom]

Or if you really don't want to play the same game twice, you can play every shmup only once, there are thousands of shmups around, so even if you do that you have quite a bit of time to get better.

Do this if you want to be really horrible like me. >=(