PS2 31khz SoG Green Screen - Resolved

[Fudoh]

Thats a monitor, btw. A really nice one

nice to see a monitor out there which accepts 15khz RGBHV.

Do you have link for us ? Which model exactly is this ?

[Fudoh]

The 480i -> 240p on the RGB 150xi is a nice find !

You guys should try with a title which was 240p in the first place and is just rendered in 480i by the system (e.g. Dragon Blaze PS2, Metal Slug 3/4/5 single releases PS2, Garou PS2 or a 360 release).

When using a title like G5 which is real 480i/p, it makes sense that the resulting 240p picture still shows interlace "jumpiness".

[dieKatze88]

I think the proper term would be CGA.

So, you lose picture if you set the PS2 to RGB? I quess you don't have a sync splitter on the c-vid line.

But you get correct colors when you set to YPbPr? Wild. I guess it gets the sync from the "green" line, that makes sense. But how are the colors right!?

CGA is a name, nothing more. its 15khz video signals. Except CGA video controllers actually have a different connector.

EGA is a name, nothing more. 25khz.

VGA is a name, etc, 31khz.

Well, my monitors support HDMI, which means they're supposed to support YPbPr signaling in the first place (although obviously on their digital inputs), but I somehow doubt the signaling in question is making it out of this box. if it is, whatever, it still works. I'll try with my Dell M770 later.

Uhhh... Sync splitter about that.... what do you think I'm using said box for. I use a physical adapter that I made a while ago that turns VGA+SOG to RGsB plugs, so its just 3 RCA plugs. Easy as pie. I feed that into the Extron and bam, I get shit out. My monitors don't support SOG so the box is definately doing the split for me.

Thats a monitor, btw. A really nice one

nice to see a monitor out there which accepts 15khz RGBHV.

Do you have link for us ? Which model exactly is this ?

They no longer sell it, I bought them a while back, like I think 2 years ago.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... CatId=4420

Here's a place that doesn't have them in stock (surprised? I'm not - they haven't been in stock anywhere for a while) although I bought them on Newegg a few black Fridays ago for about 180 each (MSRP was like 300)

They do 15khz all the way up to 1080p, they're great. They have HDMI+HDCP so your PS3s and bluray players will work, two hdmi ports and one VGA port. I connect the Extron to the VGA port and everything is golden.

[Fudoh]

The tigerdirect link doesn't work (probably a session link), could you please post the model description, thanks !

[dieKatze88]

OK well I just finished playing Castlevania HD for a while, so I hooked up my PS2 and plugged the video into my Dell M770.

Bad news: Signal Out of Range. Which means I don't have a classic CRT to test on until I drag this WHOLE setup down to my basement and hook it up to my arcade machine which I'm not going to do right this second.

Montiors:

Acer P244wii. Less than 2ms Grey to Grey latency, so its REALLY good for music games and shooters.

[antron]

Uhhh... Sync splitter about that.... what do you think I'm using said box for. I use a physical adapter that I made a while ago that turns VGA+SOG to RGsB plugs, so its just 3 RCA plugs. Easy as pie. I feed that into the Extron and bam, I get shit out. My monitors don't support SOG so the box is definately doing the split for me.

right, which explains why RGB(15kHz) mode doesn't work for you. The PS2 doesn't put the sync on green for that mode, you have to get it from the c-vid.

[dieKatze88]

Uhhh... Sync splitter about that.... what do you think I'm using said box for. I use a physical adapter that I made a while ago that turns VGA+SOG to RGsB plugs, so its just 3 RCA plugs. Easy as pie. I feed that into the Extron and bam, I get shit out. My monitors don't support SOG so the box is definately doing the split for me.

right, which explains why RGB(15kHz) mode doesn't work for you. The PS2 doesn't put the sync on green for that mode, you have to get it from the c-vid.

Are you fucking kidding? How the hell am I supposed to do that seeing as they don't have a separate line for sync on their cables. Who wants to build me an adapter. one that I might just start calling "Dapter"

[antron]

Uhhh... Sync splitter about that.... what do you think I'm using said box for. I use a physical adapter that I made a while ago that turns VGA+SOG to RGsB plugs, so its just 3 RCA plugs. Easy as pie. I feed that into the Extron and bam, I get shit out. My monitors don't support SOG so the box is definately doing the split for me.

right, which explains why RGB(15kHz) mode doesn't work for you. The PS2 doesn't put the sync on green for that mode, you have to get it from the c-vid.

Are you fucking kidding? How the hell am I supposed to do that seeing as they don't have a separate line for sync on their cables. Who wants to build me an adapter. one that I might just start calling "Dapter"

a SCART cable is normally used, but some component cables also carry c-vid.

[dieKatze88]

a SCART cable is normally used, but some component cables also carry c-vid.

On What cable?! theres Red, Green and Blue. Then there's Audio Left and Audio Right

[antron]

and composite video.

[dieKatze88]

and composite video.

Yeah OK, you clearly don't know what a Component video cable looks like.

Heres a picture:

http://www.lygotech.com/products/PS2%20 ... 0CABLE.jpg

Thats the PS2 variety. Here's the PS3 variety:

http://image4.play-asia.com/640/PA.80304.001.jpg

There is no magic spot where I can just "Get" composite video out, It HAS to be on green.

[antron]

I was refering to SCART, the cable most people use to connect to a RGB monitor in low res.

But if you insist on using a component cable, some do carry composite video; like the one included with the HD xploder:


The PS2 does NOT put sync on green for low-res RGB. NO CONSOLE DOES.

[dieKatze88]

I was refering to SCART, the cable most people use to connect to a RGB monitor in low res.

But if you insist on using a component cable, some do carry composite video; like the one included with the HD xploder:


The PS2 does NOT put sync on green for low-res RGB. NO CONSOLE DOES.

Yes I insist on using a standard that will continually be useful in my country. Sorry.

Although this is plain and simple retarded. I have sync off of several other RGsB hardware. The PS2 is just being retarded. I've seen it work without said Sync pin before (yes in RGB mode, before you ask that), so I want to know why its being so fussy now.

[Endymion]

I have a plasma screen that accepts VGA (31KHz+), RGB (15KHz), and it can sync on green over each of these. Additionally, it can accept this via its BNC inputs--normally reserved for Y-Pb-Pr.

When using any of its inputs I only need to press a button on its remote in order to change the mode from Y-Pb-Pr to RGB/VGA. When I set the PS2 to RGB(15KHz) and use the component cable--with only three wires connected to the screen--I get a perfectly usable signal complete with sync. The moment this happened I presumed the only thing that appears logical: that the PS2 sends sync on green in 15KHz RGB as well as 31. This jives with my experience when I had Redmond Cable make a Playstation (1) cable for an old monitor I used, about 14 years ago. The person I spoke with when ordering mentioned "it needs some electronics" to work. Well after evidently getting sync on green with 15KHz RGB via my PS2, using the same pinout, I presumed that has to be the reason why. Sony has always had a hard-on for sync on green, with their monitors, with VGA, I'm not sure why 15KHz RGB would be any different. And also, like dieKatze, I'm a bit nonplussed as to how I could have functional RGB without sync over green if what you say is true.

Does a PS2 RGB SCART tuck an LM1881 in the hood or was that just Redmond being weird?

Edit: Aha, First google hit.

This cable works ONLY with Sync-on-Green monitors! If your monitor dosn't support Sync-on-Green you need additional electronic components (not listed here).

So... hm? Where's viletim for the last word

[antron]

IAnd also, like dieKatze, I'm a bit nonplussed as to how I could have functional RGB without sync over green if what you say is true.

right now he doesn't have a usable RGB(15kHz) signal using only 3 wires. he is surprised by this.

I'm going to try this myself.

If it did always have SOG, wouldn't the screen be washed out in green for 15kHz mode too? That is what started this thread. The screen becomes washed out in green in 31kHz mode only, whan using a non SOG monitor.

[dieKatze88]

I have a plasma screen that accepts VGA (31KHz+), RGB (15KHz), and it can sync on green over each of these. Additionally, it can accept this via its BNC inputs--normally reserved for Y-Pb-Pr.

When using any of its inputs I only need to press a button on its remote in order to change the mode from Y-Pb-Pr to RGB/VGA. When I set the PS2 to RGB(15KHz) and use the component cable--with only three wires connected to the screen--I get a perfectly usable signal complete with sync. The moment this happened I presumed the only thing that appears logical: that the PS2 sends sync on green in 15KHz RGB as well as 31. This jives with my experience when I had Redmond Cable make a Playstation (1) cable for an old monitor I used, about 14 years ago. The person I spoke with when ordering mentioned "it needs some electronics" to work. Well after evidently getting sync on green with 15KHz RGB via my PS2, using the same pinout, I presumed that has to be the reason why. Sony has always had a hard-on for sync on green, with their monitors, with VGA, I'm not sure why 15KHz RGB would be any different. And also, like dieKatze, I'm a bit nonplussed as to how I could have functional RGB without sync over green if what you say is true.

Does a PS2 RGB SCART tuck an LM1881 in the hood or was that just Redmond being weird?

Edit: Aha, First google hit.

This cable works ONLY with Sync-on-Green monitors! If your monitor dosn't support Sync-on-Green you need additional electronic components (not listed here).

So... hm? Where's viletim for the last word

Nah its worked with other stuff, its just not working with this stuff that I have setup right now. I have a feeling its just not working with this setup because of the length of cable I have going here.

the Extron Supports stripping SOG to Well, not SOG, so I have a feeling its a "Length of cable" issue.

[antron]

What is the story with PS2+DVD+SCART=Green Screen

That supports the theory of SOG in 15kHz, but I've only ever heard of this for DVD playback.

[dieKatze88]

What is the story with PS2+DVD+SCART=Green Screen

That supports the theory of SOG in 15kHz, but I've only ever heard of this for DVD playback.

the story with PS2+DVD+RGB Mode = Green Screen is that the PS2 is programmed only to show DVDs in YPbPr mode, so its the exact same effect as my Green-Screen-Gradius back a few posts.

The original problem here in this thread is likely the extreme voltage boost that the Green line gets from SOG data being on the Green line, YPbPr or not. I told you guys yesterday that I exploited that fact to push a higher green signal into my monitor because I was sending standard voltage signals into an arcade monitor, which really requires an amplifier but if you're doing it with spare Konami GX parts then you simply don't have an amplifier.

[mesmer]

You guys should try with a title which was 240p in the first place and is just rendered in 480i by the system (e.g. Dragon Blaze PS2, Metal Slug 3/4/5 single releases PS2, Garou PS2 or a 360 release).

When using a title like G5 which is real 480i/p, it makes sense that the resulting 240p picture still shows interlace "jumpiness".

Right, I'll try Street Fighter Anniversary Collection and Mushihimesama tonight. I didn't test 240p too much, as my goal was to get 480p working

[mesmer]

When I set the PS2 to RGB(15KHz) and use the component cable--with only three wires connected to the screen--I get a perfectly usable signal complete with sync.

That is weird. Not in my experience. In 15khz I get RGB without any sync.

Does a PS2 RGB SCART tuck an LM1881 in the hood?

No, look here.

[Fudoh]

Right, I'll try Street Fighter Anniversary Collection and Mushihimesama tonight

those two are unfortunately filtered and scaled, but give 'em a try anyway.

[viletim]

The PS2 does NOT put sync on green for low-res RGB. NO CONSOLE DOES.

This is certainly the case with my PS2, there's no sync on the green (or red, or blue for that matter). The only sync information is from the composite video signal.

I have a plasma screen that accepts VGA (31KHz+), RGB (15KHz), and it can sync on green over each of these. Additionally, it can accept this via its BNC inputs--normally reserved for Y-Pb-Pr.

When using any of its inputs I only need to press a button on its remote in order to change the mode from Y-Pb-Pr to RGB/VGA. When I set the PS2 to RGB(15KHz) and use the component cable--with only three wires connected to the screen--I get a perfectly usable signal complete with sync. The moment this happened I presumed the only thing that appears logical: that the PS2 sends sync on green in 15KHz RGB as well as 31.

It could be generating the sync from the video content alone. It's fairly easy to do in the digital processing if the picture isn't too dark around the edges of the screen. Testing another console connected in the same manner would confirm this.

[mesmer]

those two are unfortunately filtered and scaled, but give 'em a try anyway.

OK, I tried:

SF Alpha Anthology:
Has filter option on/off.
Output was not stable, like the box didn't know which line to put where.

SF Anniversary Collection
Third Strike: filter turned off, output was more stable, would jump a line once a second, but then calmed down after a minute, and looked amazing.
Hyper SF2: Didn't see a filter option, looked good, didn't examine too closely.

Capcom Classics Collection 2, Super Turbo:
Barf, horrible filtering and scaling, you can adjust the scaling.
By setting to 240p and slowly adjusting the scaling, you can see the original pixel average in from one line to the next
If I had to play this (ST training mode?), I would play in 480p and just let it be what it is, scaled and filtered

Mushihimesama: looked good
Ibara: looked good
I haven't been staring at these for over half my life, like SF2, so the filtering/scaling is not as noticeable to me. Still would definitely use 240p though, the screen panning from left to right (tate) makes me want to barf in interlaced mode.

Espgaluda: didn't need it, did 240p natively.

I need to go back and try AA, as that was the first one I tried. Maybe the box needed a bit of time to 'warm up' ?

I tried to take pictures and video of 480i/240p. All the pictures look the same, I need to find my tripod and use a longer shutter speed. Here are some of my setup. The video I took clearly shows the difference. I uploaded it to youtube, but youtube must change the FPS from 60->30, because on youtube they look the same. Anyone know how I can share 60fps video?

Fudoh, For Makoto's EX Hayate in Third Strike, there is a 30Hz flash from where she was to where she is going. This is really clear in interlaced mode: there is a combed ghost of where she was for half a second instead of any kind of flashing. Might be a good test for your deinterlacers/linedoublers/upscalers, see if it is handled the same as the drop shadows or not.

[Fudoh]

Anyone know how I can share 60fps video?

Megaupload. I put up a lot of 500MB video processor shootout videos. Nothing you can view online, but good for large files to download without the usual 100mb splitups...

And thanks for the impressions! And I'll give SF3:3rdS a shot these days to see what you talked about.

[mesmer]

Videos:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JVD3I4DE
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R3AO1UKR
These are AVCHD format, My latest WMP plays them just fine.

[antron]

^that's awesome

Price of an Extron RGB 150xi=

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dare I say better than an Emotia?
but there's no telling how many Extron processors can do this.

who got that ebay one today for $14?

[Fudoh]

dare I say better than an Emotia?

different, with the Emotia you don't have the line flicker problem and it works fine with every game. On the other hand you need a linedoubler before the Emotia.

but there's no telling how many Extron processors can do this.

many Extron interfaces have the DDSP function. I asked RGB32E to give it a try on his RGB190/192.

@mesmer: the SF3 240p video looks very nice indeed!

[RGB32E]

Ahh... so my test setup could be:

PS2 with 3rd Strike (480i) via RGBS -> Extron RGB 190F -> 4 BNC (RGBS) output to Sony PVM-2030?

I have all of the cabling for that.... I'll update with my results later.

[Fudoh]

PS2 with 3rd Strike (480i) via RGBS

that probably needs to be run through a sync stripper first... but anyway, awaiting your news!

[RGB32E]

PS2 with 3rd Strike (480i) via RGBS

that probably needs to be run through a sync stripper first... but anyway, awaiting your news!

Almost there... I need to reterm one of my Sony stock cables... :S Ack!



HOLY SHI****.... it really DOES work... not quite the same as true 240p, but yes, it is something magical!