Kotaku makes a list of the "Top Ten Best Games in History."

[drunken starsailor]

STEP RIGHT UP!! Prepare to be amazed! Yeah you, sir! Today you will witness the Fantastic Cavemen Brothers put together a list of the best games evarrr!!11111

http://kotaku.com/5504403/in-search-of- ... season-one

Let's start with the main attraction. I dunno about you, but I'd like to see another fucking Zelda game on this one! Let's see what they came up with.

N'Gai and I wanted to use something neutral for our starter list. We wouldn't kick this off with a list of our personal favorites. We relied, instead, on numbers. Specifically, we went to review aggregator GameRankings.com a couple of weeks ago and pulled the list of the 10 highest-scoring games of all time. That produced this:

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Super Mario Galaxy
3. Grand Theft Auto IV
4. Super Mario World
5. Metroid Prime
6. SoulCalibur
7. The Orange Box
8. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
9. Super Metroid
10. Metal Gear Solid (Game Boy Color)

WOW! UN-BE-LIEVABLE! How did you...?!

That's not all! Look at how they perplex their audience!

We knew our starter listed would be flawed. GameRankings.com would not include old games that were released before games were reviewed on the Internet. It would have entries like The Orange Box that might not fit some people's criteria for a best-games list, since it is a compilation of games.

But N'Gai and I didn't have to worry about any flaws in this list. The point of Canon Fodder is to get all the flaws corrected. To do that, we would take the list to one game creator at a time, asking them to make one change.

Contestants had two moves available: 1) Swap the position of two games on the list or 2) Replace a game on the list with one not on it, putting the new game in the departing game's spot.

Sounds neat! What are the moves you recorded in advance?

Here are the moves we recorded in advance:

Move 1 by Patrice Desilets, Creative Director of Assassin's Creed

1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
2. Removed Super Mario Galaxy / Added: Super Mario 64
3. Grand Theft Auto IV
4. Super Mario World
5. Metroid Prime
6. SoulCalibur
7. The Orange Box
8. Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
9. Super Metroid
10. Metal Gear Solid (Game Boy Color)

AND THE CROWD GOES WIIIILDDD!!

Reaction: The crowd booed the removal of Galaxy but cheered boisterously when they saw 64 take its place.

>;DDDD *farts/world explodes.

[kengou]

This is from march... not sure why it's being posted now. But I haven't seen it, so it's new to me as well!

And Kotaku didn't have as much to do with the list as you're making out, it seems to be a collaborative effort to "evolve" a list using prominent developers in the gaming industry. I think it's a really awesome idea, although it probably should have gone through more iterations before being "finalized". As the final list stands, I can understand why every game on there should be there. Obviously it doesn't match my personal list, but it seems decent enough.

[Ed Oscuro]

needs moar diakatanea

also, how the hell is Galaxy still up there? It's that good huh? And GTA IV / Uncharted 2 seem to be "hey I just played this / remember it, so cool" picks. Orange Box...well, I'd say it's half respectable, though definitely more multiplayer oriented. What, somebody actually thinks Portal is a great game? And Ep2 was no Half-Life 2.

[Obiwanshinobi]

At least there's no Shadow of the Colossus - Angry People's Game of the Year 2005 - on it.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

We can't all agree on personal opinion.

That said, that list sucks. Where's God Hand? Best damn 3D beat 'em up ever has to count for something.

[BryanM]

Self important public masturbation.

Rampart speculation of things to be and things that coulda been are more interesting.

Am I the only person in the world who writes design documents for games that I have no intention of ever making? There has to be a community of people who do that sort of thing, right? Right?

..... of course there fucking isn't. No wonder I feel so alone. Damn zombies everywhere. I'm just happy that the heat of the day isn't baking my brain right now....

[Jockel]

Kotaku

[Skykid]

Kotaku

+1

Can't argue with Ocarina of Time, that's the only one in the right spot.

Everything else is dubious.

[Jockel]

Kotaku

+1

Can't argue with Ocarina of Time, that's the only one in the right spot.

Everything else is dubious.

Problem with OoT is, it aged horribly. I'm not even complaining about models or textures, but the hyrule field is pretty empty and the game's locked at 20fps. TWENTY. But apparently the 3DS remake is here to save us, with new models, new content (if we're lucky) and a smooth framerate.

[BryanM]

Hey everybody. I know you want to hack a bunch of monsters and dive into some dungeons, and I'll let you finish, but first let me tell you about this tree. It is a very important tree.

[Jockel]

Dragon Quest IX?

[drunken starsailor]

And GTA IV / Uncharted 2 seem to be "hey I just played this / remember it, so cool" picks.

While that is a correct observation that could be said for any game on this pathetic list, you still failed to mention the main problem with a list like this--as did everyone else.

They are taking games which belong to completely different genres, and ranking them with no criteria whatsoever to base their decisions on, which genre is better than the other. Just because Ocarina Of Time holds sentimental value for Brian Crecente--or the ocean of fans who voted for it on Metacritic--, does not justify it's place in the number one spot. By ranking it as such, he is implying that the Action game genre is the best genre ever; which is absurd unless he does his homework and explains how it fares to the other genres belonging to the rest of the games on that list. (As well as doing the same for all of the other genres in their relation to each other.)

What WOULD make sense, for those who lack those credentials, would be to make a "Best Of" list of games belonging to the same genre. Surely then they would stop and think, "Hey, I'm starting to have my doubts about OOT being ranked above a great game like, say, Ninja Gaiden Sigma?"; and re-adjust the list, accordingly.

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/leave_ran ... e_experts/

To the honour of the expert. -- As soon as anyone who is not an expert starts to play the judge we should at once protest: whether the person concerned is a little man or a little woman. Enthusiasm for and delight in a thing or a person are no arguments: nor are repugnance and hatred for them, either.

-Friedrich Nietzsche

As for this:

And Kotaku didn't have as much to do with the list as you're making out, it seems to be a collaborative effort to "evolve" a list using prominent developers in the gaming industry.

It makes no difference who took responsibility for making this list, the point is it's misinforming people.
Any schmuck can put together a top ten list like this. I'm sure that Topdrunkee guy at Killer7Sindicate has half-assed his way through one with his artfag games in the front seat. Only difference here is that the ton of people who have read this one, trust the author's opinion as if it were their own. And they churn more of these things out every day, all over internet gaming sites! Do you see how dangerous this is? It's like a captor convincing his hostage that the LSD he gives him every morning is just Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Then one fine day he wakes up and says, "Oh wait...that was...fuck." and dies.

What he should do before this happens, is bite his captor's face off, break his chains, and get used to detoxing. In other words, don't believe anything Kotaku, Select Button, or any of those shitty sites publish. It's all below rubbish.

[Jockel]

Subjective opinions found in lists some random people on the interwebs make up-
GODDAMN SERIOUS BUSINESS!

[Dragoforce]

Icycalm made the topic even more stupid. From beyond the grave/ban

[Elixir]

Gamerankings is so flawed it isn't even funny. They should limit their reviews to a maximum amount, or else nothing's ever going to beat Ocarina of Time. Galaxy and GTA IV would have done this by now if the cut-off point were at 25.

[BryanM]

I don't know if sailor is srs or not. I'm scared. Someone hold me.

Dragon Quest IX?

....

Damn there are a lot of games with long drawn out beginnings about a stupid tree you never see or hear about ever again. Someone make a list!

[Jockel]

I don't know if sailor is srs or not. I'm scared. Someone hold me.

Dragon Quest IX?

....

Damn there are a lot of games with long drawn out beginnings about a stupid tree you never see or hear about ever again. Someone make a list!

Oh yeah now i get it, you were still referring to Ocarina of Time- my bad

[Ed Oscuro]

Kotaku

Gawker Media

[Puddleglum]

I completely agree with the point about needing to separate rankings like this by genre. I can enjoy the occasional well-done FPS, but as a whole the gameplay and genre is not my thing, so could never rank an FPS over a really great platformer, or puzzle game, or whatever. I mean honestly, if I was stuck on a desert island and had to choose between, say, Half-Life 2 or The Adventures of Lolo, I'd go Lolo without even thinking twice. But if you've settled on a genre, everyone can at least argue the merits of particular games relative to it's genre. (However there is a lot of genre crossover that could make the divisions challening)

It's also obvious every time anyone makes "Top X Games of All Time" list, that they can never make up their mind if they are making a "Most Influential Games of All Time" or just "Best Games of All Time" or maybe even "Most Memorable Games of All Time".

Taking Super Mario 64, Mario Galaxy, and Mario Galaxy 2 for example - in my estimating SMG2 is the most fantastic platformer I have ever played. It trumps SM64 in every way, and is also significantly better than SMG. Sure, SM64 is where it all got started, and is more influential, but I don't see how anyone could consider it a better game. In a similar vein, the original SMB was hugely influential on the game industry, but by modern standards it's vanilla platforming and not much to write home about.

As for OOT, I agree that some aspects of it haven't aged well, but dang, playing through the Forest Temple is easily my #1 Holy Crap This is the Greatest Thing Ever moment of all time.

[CMoon]

Top ten BEST games or top ten most BORING games? Seriously, getting a 9/10 or 10/10 from IGN and Gamespot almost guarantees snooze-fest, or at least casual gameplay + minimal replay value. ...OR super-gay multi-player capture the flag bullshit.

[Skykid]

Problem with OoT is, it aged horribly. I'm not even complaining about models or textures, but the hyrule field is pretty empty and the game's locked at 20fps. TWENTY. But apparently the 3DS remake is here to save us, with new models, new content (if we're lucky) and a smooth framerate.

All games age. Hyrule field is good enough empty or otherwise and 20fps isn't a problem either. People can rag on Ocarina all they want, doesn't change the fact it's a masterclass in game design.

[Ed Oscuro]

Problem with OoT is, it aged horribly. I'm not even complaining about models or textures, but the hyrule field is pretty empty and the game's locked at 20fps. TWENTY. But apparently the 3DS remake is here to save us, with new models, new content (if we're lucky) and a smooth framerate.

And no analog controller

It's been a little while since I last played OoT, but it's not all that bad. Really. It's also slow-paced enough that the 20fps isn't as big a deal as it might seem - that's only a few frames per second slower than film, and well outside the range where many people actually get ill.

It's pretty easy for most folks to hate on the early 3D games but out of them all, Ocarina is one of the class acts. It showed the way for games like Metroid Prime while not really having any obvious faults in its design, just hardware restrictions (pretty well done considering).

[E. Randy Dupre]

One day, some site will make a "best games ever" list and people won't feel the need to point out how silly it is.

None of us will live to see that day, but the optimist in me is convinced that it'll have to come to pass eventually.

[Mortificator]

All games age.

No games age. This is what Ocarina of Time looked like if played in in '98...



... and this is what it looks like if you heat up your N64 and play it right now:



Anyway, Cuttle Cart > Orange Box

[Skykid]

All games age.

No games age.

You know what I meant.

[louisg]

Man.. Mario 64.. it was amazing at the time, but really, it's a bunch of open mostly-vacant spaces that the player is expected to tediously collect crap in. Once the novelty of being in a 3d world dies down, there's not really a lot left, is there? Compare that with Galaxy 2, which is non-stop platforming with lots going on!

Also, I recently started playing Ocarina for the first time on a real N64, and I don't think it's aged badly at all! It still looks pretty damn good, all things considered. And, it doesn't have too much filler-- it gets to the point pretty quick. No fishing required!

I kind of feel like new games should be barred from being in a "best games ever" list. If we made a list like that in the early 90s, it would have probably had a bunch of slightly-above-average junk on it which, while aren't *bad*, isn't in "best game ever" territory anymore.

[E. Randy Dupre]

All games age.

No games age. This is what Ocarina of Time looked like if played in in '98...

... and this is what it looks like if you heat up your N64 and play it right now:

Nuh-uh. On an emulator, maybe, but there isn't an N64 in existence that it would ever have looked that sharp on.

[Mortificator]

All games age.

No games age.

You know what I meant.

I'm not trying to crap on you, it's just weird to see people talking about games aging when it's obviously not true (and in fact, totally impossible). I understand that a game might look different to you when going back to it years later, but that's because you have aged, not because it has. I sure see The Cat in the Hat differently now than I did when it was read to me decades ago, but I know the book hasn't changed.

[Skykid]

I'm not trying to crap on you, it's just weird to see people talking about games aging when it's obviously not true (and in fact, totally impossible). I understand that a game might look different to you when going back to it years later, but that's because you have aged, not because it has. I sure see The Cat in the Hat differently now than I did when it was read to me decades ago, but I know the book hasn't changed.

I know you weren't, just seemed like you kind of took it out of context.

I of all people will stand by a twenty year old game being just as (and in most cases, more) playable than anything released today. It was just a response to Jock's idea it had gotten crusty or something.

[Jockel]

Who cares if it's the games or us that age, but these days i prefer 60fps and clear textures, thank you.
The gaming industry has evolved and a lot of old games have trouble keeping up, it's simple as that.
I feel stupid for pointing that out.