Checked out the sci-fi masterpiece that is Inception?

[emphatic]

Tickets bought and I'm seeing this Saturday night.

[Skykid]

I'm sure those same 2 girls would tell you twilight was soooooo good.

[Ed Oscuro]

Thank God for Skykid. That was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. The script was probably made up as Nolan wrote. To use a good example: at first the characters were not supposed to "kill themselves", because it would mean slipping further into the "dream". (We are never told why this is a bad thing.) THEN, after Di Crappio lets Cillian Murphy know this(who he stopped from killing himself), they end up delving further into the "dream" anyway--with no reason given at all for this change of plans. Even though that guy says "He (Di Crappio) spends a lot of time doing what he's not supposed to do", it still doesn't hide the fact that it's bad writing. Not high-brow-watch enough-times-until-you-discover-the-hidden-meaning, but bad writing. The entire film is an intangible wreck. .

It's not "intangible," if anything, people are right to point out (as RGC did) that the "dreams" look really nothing like dreams at all. So that leaves the word "unintelligible," which is what I think you meant - and that's an argument I don't buy. It wasn't too hard to follow.

There sure are plot holes - how do you get into somebody else's dreams by just having a drug pumped into you? I think they missed the boat on "Limbo," which was being set up to be really scary (it wasn't, just a bit odd) and in how people seemed to fall into their own limbos...and didn't suffer any of the ill effects of being in limbo that were being stated by the characters earlier (then again, the movie was consistent about how Limbo actually worked - you apparently just get really old there - versus what the characters thought, which would have been more compelling and scary - if it had come to pass).

I will agree with anybody that the usual silly man vs. woman emotional plotline was the only area where there was apparent character development (the guy they're screwing with just goes along a short, rather flat and uninterestingly predictable arc) while there were plenty of other opportunities for character development that was worth something. To be fair, Cobb's wife was screwed up and so was he. The whole nature of their screwup seems like somebody went "hmm, when you don't know if you're in a dream...how can I turn this into a heartburn moment?" and then started up a perfunctory brainstorming session - going with the first thing that came to mind.

[drunken starsailor]

Ed is right. I misinterpreted the film greatly. A friend sent me this via e-mail, after reading my terrible review. We saw it today, and the film was much more enjoyable thanks to him. Yes, I'm a moron. There, I said it. Here is what he wrote:

(CHALK-FULL OF SPOILERS!)

Oh man, as soon as I noticed you had a review I clicked on it. I guess I was expecting to have my overwhelming praise justified, but I guess you can't win them all...

I will refute a couple points though. The reason I believe the film gets confusing and hard to follow is due to the levels of the dream, going further into them, and how Limbo fits into all of it. I picked most of this up the first time, but it's understandable that one might miss it.
To answer your issues about why they killed themselves; Cobb reveals only after they are in the dream that the chemicals Yusef used to allow them to go deeper won't allow them to wake up like they would normally. Instead, if they die under that amount of sedation, they will find themselves in "Limbo," a space of collective unconsciousness where Cobb ended (And might still reside if you think deeply on it) up with Mal, and which is nearly impossible to escape from since you forget about the real world there. All this is stated by Cobb after they hole up in the building to hide from the Projections.

Nevertheless, after Fischer is shot, Ariadne and Cobb follow Fischer into his dream so that they can save him and complete the mission. After Saito dies, Cobb also stays behind so that he can bring him back, since the few minutes Saito's been dead have been years for him in Limbo, so that he can make the call that will allow him back in the states.

I find it quite ironic that you should list the actor's performances as being one of the better parts, since (and I'm not among them) most reviewers said it sacrificed characterization for plot. But even with all the levels of the dream, you have to admit that Joseph Gordon-Levitt's zero gravity fight sequence was pretty awesome.

And Yes, Marion Cotillard was excellent as the "Femme Fatale" wife.

(Regarding the motives of the protagonists.)

That's set up at the beginning, when they realize that stealing from Saito was just a test to see if they were good enough to pull off the job he had for them. Saito knows that Cobb doesn't want money, but just to get back to his kids in the states which he can't do because he has a murder rap due to Mal's suicide. Saito is apparently quite connected, and will pull some strings so that he can return home if he does this "one last job."

I like to think that the movie is primarily about his character learning to get over the grief for his wife (Thus, expunging her from his subconscious) and the mission is more of a mcguffin. Although completing it allows him to be with his children, ultimately what's keeping him from returning is the guilt that he is responsible for Mal's death, which he has to accept if he is to go home. I found his motivation for all of this to be most compelling element of the film, and his scene when he tells her that she's not his wife, but just a "Shade" I was blown away by both the acting and the music.

If you think about it like this, there is actually a second inception taking place, that of introducing the idea that Cobb can forgive himself and stop revisiting her memory. Some people may even go as far to say that Ariadne's may have been hired to preform the inception, which is why she's the character that's the closest to him, and why she's brought into dangerous situations that don't require her to be there.

If you were to watch it again and focus on the character's history, you might get more out of it then if you were trying to follow all the layers of the dream and how "Kicks" work. I'd love to have a face-to-face and talk about it.

I'm still confused about some things the second time seeing it, but here is what I do understand:

After Cobb slips Cillian's character a drug, they enter what is the first of three layers of his dream to preform inception--the planting of an idea so far into the subject's subconscious, that it sticks.

Anything that happens in the first level (water splashing on their sleeping faces as the car drives into a puddle or whatever.) will manifest itself in the second level. In this case, it starts to rain in the hospital bar and second level.

Anyone has the ability to enter limbo, as their dreams all seem to effect one another. (Cobb's figment of the train was visible by everyone.) However, the only people who seemed to have resided there before anyone else were Cobb and Mal. They created an entire city to keep their love alive. (I agree with Ed about the romance being a little silly.)

Long story short; Cobb leaves Mel at the last part of the movie and is washed ashore at limbo's gate.
Since time is extraordinarily fast here, Saito is an old man. After so long in limbo, you start to except limbo as reality, and forget what the "real" world is. Why Cobb is not as old as Saito is not something I completely understand. I think it has something to do with how self-awareness (This is a dream, not reality.) can retard the process of time for that person. Unfortunately, Saito got the crap-end of the stick. But that's just my theory.

Once they recognize each other, they remember what they set out to do. Naturally, they kill themselves and immediately return to the "real world". (Which arguably is not the real world, if you take time to think about it.) This introduces another question: How were they able to wake up to their normal state from all the way down there? This contradicts the aforementioned "laws of waking up".

Yeah, plenty more coming soon... I need to see it a few more times to "get it."

[Ed Oscuro]

I guess, in fairness, there is a fine line between being "deep" (artificially so, actually, I think...most of it is just made-up fantasy stuff but eh whatcha want) and also trying to be obvious. When the movie does something silly it probably deceives us into thinking it's not also got some parts that are better thought out, plot-wise.

[Shatterhand]

I've read the whole topic.

I've watched this last monday and I think it's a masterpiece. No need to counter-argument as I read everything you guys have said, but feel free to do it if you need so.

Anyway, I just wanted to make a comment about this:

This introduces another question: How were they able to wake up to their normal state from all the way down there? This contradicts the aforementioned "laws of waking up

This was the same question I made after I left the theater. I guess that's why the movie doesn't show Coob and Saito dying in the limbo... maybe because Cobb really never awoke.

I need to watch it again, because I don't rememember why there was a need for the kicks to be synchronized through the different levels. I've watched the movie with someone else, who said after the sedative effect goes away, they would wake up anyway....

[Ed Oscuro]

Apparently you need to get roused from the deeper dreams first, else you're once again lost in limbo. They said something along those lines. Yes, it doesn't really make sense but those were the rules they laid out.

For something as straightforward and intuitively understood as dreams they sure had to make up a lot of arbitrary rules for the plot, didn't they?

[Skykid]

When the movie does something silly it probably deceives us into thinking it's not

That's pretty much Hollywood in a nutshell, but it only deceives the less perceptive viewer - it just pisses everybody else off.

[Ed Oscuro]

Selective quoting to force me into playing the dunce eh? I mean, that reads totally different from what I actually wrote.

[CMoon]

Why Cobb is not as old as Saito is not something I completely understand. I think it has something to do with how self-awareness (This is a dream, not reality.)

I suspect that since it is a dream, the dreamer must have some choice as to how they perceive themselves. I say this because we always see Cobb and Mal in limbo as young except in one scene that shows them as old. The scene suggested to me that while they had effectively been in limbo for decades, they did not see themselves as old, so in the other scenes, they always perceive themselves as young.

If that's the case, then whatever age Saito and Cobb appear later on is pretty much up to the dreamer.

[Strider77]

There is still "fiction" in science fiction.... Transformormers had lots of made up BS with no science.

[Skykid]

Selective quoting to force me into playing the dunce eh? I mean, that reads totally different from what I actually wrote.

Not at all, I thought what you said was spot on, I just thought I'd clarify a little. Didn't mean to twist the words dude.

[emphatic]

Saw this last night, loved it. 5/5 from me. That train almost made me fall out of my seat. The music was incredible!

[sven666]

saw this last night, great score and cinematography, great cast aswell.

story is way to predictable, if it hadnt been for the manic pacing this one would have been a real sleeping pill.
good movie but nowhere near a masterpiece.

[GaijinPunch]

Saw this tonight w/ a friend... so I'm not not the only dumbass on the planet that hasn't seen it. The most predictable thing about this is that Skykid would give it a shit review, as he's not given a proper one yet in this forum.

[Skykid]

I'm not not the only dumbass on the planet.

Yeah, yeah, we know but we tolerate you.

[drunken starsailor]

Dude, you are like the master of quoting out of context.

And GP is right. Just go see the movie. We're all getting sick of your bitching.

[Skykid]

Dude, you are like the master of quoting out of context.

It's called a friendly rapport. He takes the piss out of me, I endeavour to return the favour. It's been happening for a while now.

I won't bother replying to the overarching 'WE' collective assumption - I've not commented on Nolan or Inception for over a week, so obviously you're not paying much attention.

you can go back to being a douche now.

[Dragoforce]

Intelligent action movie.

[GaijinPunch]

I purposely avoided this thread until I saw the movie, so I was not able to rail on Skykid until now. My apologies. I guess the problem I have with him dissing Nolan is the claim "Memento was good". I rank it a lot higher than good, especially since it was his first with a real budget (and color film). Insomnia -- didn't know he did that, and you're right, it was not good. But, keep in mind that:

1) I live in a bubble (literally...it's just the size of a country and invisible)
2) I read zero reviews of anything. It's hard to avoid the hype for such a movie, but I go in with basically just knowing what I saw in the trailer, and that most people loved it.

So with Memento, I simply saw it on Amazon and took a chance, and thought it was really well done... directed, acted, scored... you name it.

It was a good ride. Really dug it... I'm on the fence on DiCaprio in just about everything. I figured out Shutter Island about 40 minutes into it b/c they kept hammering the point. It was so obvious. Gave that one a 6. I figured this would end much more ambiguously, but hey, it worked.

[Skykid]

I figured out Shutter Island about 40 minutes into it b/c they kept hammering the point. It was so obvious. Gave that one a 6.

I figured out Shutter Island's twist after about ten minutes - I thought the whole thing was really horribly handled and a big let down from Scorcese. Closer to a 4 for me.

[RGC]

.

[Skykid]

I'm on the fence on DiCaprio in just about everything.

How did you feel about The Departed? I really liked that one, and felt Nicholson was its only (slight) weakness.

I thought the Departed was great (and Nicholson was great!), but Infernal Affairs told the same story better.

[emphatic]

but Infernal Affairs told the same story better.

While I agree on that, the Hollywood faces removes all of the mix ups that the western audience are bound to make when "everybody looks alike". + No Matt Damon.

[RGC]

.

[monkeyman]

Just going to wade in and say I loved Inception. Not a masterpiece, nor the cleverest movie ever made, but as an inteligent actioner it was top notch and I was entertained from start to finish. (+ the soundtrack was mindblowing).

Only thing I would have changed was the ending. I'd have had Cobb look down and realise he's only in his pants, then when he looks up he's back at school sitting his exams. That's real dreams for you!

[Strider77]

I read zero reviews of anything. It's hard to avoid the hype for such a movie, but I go in with basically just knowing what I saw in the trailer, and that most people loved it.

That's about all I knew of it... the trailer and one friend saying their parents didn't think it was bad or really good.

[GaijinPunch]

I'm on the fence on DiCaprio in just about everything.

How did you feel about The Departed? I really liked that one, and felt Nicholson was its only (slight) weakness.

It was excellent -- all actors really raised the bar (including DiCaprio). So, I think the guy can be directed properly. It's still hit & miss.

Baldwin & Walberg were excellent as well, although small roles.

[boagman]

I'm on the fence on DiCaprio in just about everything.

How did you feel about The Departed? I really liked that one, and felt Nicholson was its only (slight) weakness.

It was excellent -- all actors really raised the bar (including DiCaprio). So, I think the guy can be directed properly. It's still hit & miss.

Baldwin & Walberg were excellent as well, although small roles.

Yike. While I loved "Departed", Baldwin and Walberg really went a bit OTT with the whole "Bahstan" thing...*way* OTT, and so did Sheen. In fact, Wahlberg's best scene in the whole thing was the very last one, where he didn't say a thing. Especially with Sheen and Baldwin, though, both of their performances weren't exactly anything to write home about, much less The Academy. Wahlberg at least played a pretty decent foil to DiCaprio's character, and that made him somewhat more relevant than the others.

[RGC]

.