XRGB-3

[RGB32E]

Looks like NEC has their white LED lit version of the U2311H (coming soon):
http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Prod ... 2048a1b852

They don't list the color gamut... and if it's like the Dell WLED lit version, it has a lower color gamut.... meh...

Displayport is supposed to be completely downwards compatible, meaning DVI-D to DP in B0 should work just fine. The other way around does not always work though (something with active and passive DPs, this is why there're powered $100 DP to DVI-D converters out there as well).

@Konsolkongen: I'll get another Gefen unit the next days (Hi-Def Scaler incl. VGA to DVI-D). I'll give this whole Optoma thing another try then. I can't really see why going wrong on your setup between the Gefen and the Optoma.

@RGB32E: the new 23" DEll is supposed to be based on the same IPS panel as the NEC EA231, which speaks for it. On the other hand, Dell pretty much nuked the whole inputlag situation on most of their previous IPS Panels (24 and 27"). EDIT: seems fine on the 23" model: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2311h.htm

Check the tiny print on my last post...

There'll be another entry on the wiki within the next two weeks.

[Fudoh]

Seems like the new 23" LED NEC is a TN Panel....

[Thirst]

I'm not too fussed.. I could manage with either B0 or B1.

If you want scanlines, you need B1. Either way, install the latest B0 fw and the B1 fw.

Either I'm confused or the Edge doesn't have VGA input though so not sure how to make that happen.

The Edge takes VGA through 5 RCA/Cinch jackets, the two sync inputs on the outer left and the lower component input.

EDIT: Getting a signal now. Seems there was a glitch with the BNC->RCA adapters for the RGBHV cable.

However.. the picture quality is horrible. I don't think I could do worse through RF.



The camera actually seemed to improve on it. In real life the background has an almost purple tinge, the contrast is completely washed out (see the cubes) and there is some serious banding grain running across the background.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

[Fudoh]

he Edge doesn't recognize the signal and gives a "no signal" message on the information screen

you probably have to set the Edge to RGBHV input instead of Component input (or change the input specs).

XGA in B0 mode with V-Sync off is a sure hit if you want to make sure everything's connected properly.

[Thirst]

I know that's not what you answered to but just letting you know either way, switching to XGA in B0 with V-sync off doesn't change anything with the picture.

EDIT: Seems it could be related to how it handles an interlaced signal. If I boot up Beyond good and evil (one of few PAL PS2 games I know that actually supports progressive mode) and switch to progressive scan from the game options, the mangled contrast/colors go away but the noise remains. This could be related to the issue mentioned on the wiki with PS2 component cable noise levels though.

I need to get it to deinterlace properly though..

[Fudoh]

It's so hard to get an actual idea of the PQ by digicam shots.

Can you put in a 240p game, use B1 mode, set scanlines to 175, turn the LPF on and set the A/D level to 179 - just so we have a little common ground to start with.

After that leave the Edge controls alone and adjust the contrast/brightness/gamma on the XRGB (40/120/22-ish should be fine). After THAT you can use the Edge's controls to adjust the picture. Set Edge Enhancement to -10 and Detail Enhancement to +6, set the output to locked framerate 1080p.

it's possible that you have to heavily adjust the brightness and contrast on the Edge as well since I don't know which RGB levels the Edge awaits.

Report back how it turns out (with another digicam shot).

[Fudoh]

For 480i signals (e.g the PS2's system menu) DISABLE the gamemode to get proper 480i deinterlacing.

[Thirst]

Not sure what games are in 240p as opposed to 480i. I'm assuming mostly conversions of older games? I've got Street Fighter Anniversary collection (NTSC), Megaman Anniversary collection (NTSC) and Capcom classics collection (PAL) as candidates if that's the case.

Can you put in a 240p game, use B1 mode, set scanlines to 175, turn the LPF on and set the A/D level to 179 - just so we have a little common ground to start with.

While in the PS2 menus, and after this part the picture quality looks better by leaps and bounds. The discoloration goes away completely with ADC set to 179 and while scanlines doesn't actually introduce any visible scanlines as far as I can see (because of the 576i menu res I guess), it does brighten the picture quite a lot.

After that leave the Edge controls alone and adjust the contrast/brightness/gamma on the XRGB (40/120/22-ish should be fine).

This part doesn't add up for me though. As far as I can see there isn't a contrast setting on the XRGB-3, and the values seem off as well. My brightness doesn't even go to 120. Did you mean the other way around? Leave the XRGB controls alone and adjust the Edge? If so.. is there a way to restore the default XRGB values? I've kinda mucked them up trying to get the ones above.

[Fudoh]

Not sure what games are in 240p as opposed to 480i. I'm assuming mostly conversions of older games? I've got Street Fighter Anniversary collection (NTSC), Megaman Anniversary collection (NTSC) and Capcom classics collection (PAL) as candidates if that's the case.

none of the above, all 480/576i. You can use a PS1 game if you don't have a 240p PS2 one.

The problem with 480i games is that you basically don't need the XRGB for them. The 480i Deinterlacing in B0 is crappy and in B1 it's non existend (just field simulation). For 480i titles, go directly into the Edge - will look better all the way.

This part doesn't add up for me though

the XRGB controls have been labeled wrong which drives me nuts over and over again

From top: brightness (35-40), Gamma (12-20), Blacklevel (120-124), Sharpness (7).

Leave the XRGB controls alone and adjust the Edge?

It makes more sense to adjust the XRGB as far as possible and after that finetune using the Edge.

[RGB32E]

The U2311H works with B0 @ 1080p via DVI-D output flawlessly!!!!!

[Thirst]

I popped in Einhänder (NTSC PS1 title) into the PS2 and other than an issue with a vertical shift (fairly sure my modchip has a toggle to fix this) it looked great with nice dark scanlines. I couldn't get a decent shot off though as the camera just wouldn't follow with proper focus and over/underexposed just as much.

The PS2 menu looks fine now. There's some slight noise in the background but it's possible that's from within the PS2 itself and is negligible when sitting on the sofa anyhow.



Thanks again I really appreciate it.

One more question before I'm off to bed though, for when I've rearranged my RGB SCART extension for the JP pins, should I run vintage RGB-able consoles through XRGB-3->Edge->TV or try to find a signal from the XRGB that my TV will accept on it's own and avoid having the Edge to anything bad to the video quality along the way?

EDIT: Also I kinda disagree about the Edge treating the interlaced stuff better on its own. When I display the same menu through just the Edge there are some black dots introduced into the white text. Could be a setting thing ofc. Couldn't get them on camera though :-/ It overexposes the whites too badly.

[Fudoh]

should I run vintage RGB-able consoles through XRGB-3->Edge->TV or try to find a signal from the XRGB that my TV will accept

that depends on the scaling capabilities of your TV. If you feed the B1 XRGB signal thgrouh into the Edge and have it scaled it 1080p in Gamemode it a) adds a delay of 6ms and b) adds slight halos to the edges because of the "over sharp" scaling engine. My TV for example has a softer scaling engine which doesn't do this. But especially with scanlines activated, it's more or less a matter of taste (I don't know how you usually set your TV's sharpness controls).

Also I kinda disagree about the Edge treating the interlaced stuff better on its own

the menu isn't the best benchmark. It really depends on the game you use. If you need lagfree processing, e.g. for titles that have been 240p origiinally and are just running in 480i because they're badly converted, I use the XRGB of course, especially for slower games (strategy, RGPs), the Edge just brings out WAY MORE details in 480i signals because of the adaptive deinterlacer. While the Edge produces a real 480p picture out of static inputs (or static ares in the picture), the XRGB will always just display a 240-line field at a time and double that.

[Konsolkongen]

So i made that RGB cable for the MegaDrive 1.

Butchered D-sub socket:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097114

I had to widen the EXT port a little, but it turned out decent enough:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097114

Finished cable:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097190

Unfortunately there is still very noticeable jailbars in the picture Here are a few shots with LPF off and for some reason i still had scanlines on when taking these...
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097278
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097295

I tried with and without resistor on the C sync line. And also tried MKL's mod found on mmmonkey's site but the picture was exactly the same. It didn't help on my Master System Converter problems either.

Will it help if i add capasitors on the RGB lines?

[RGB32E]

Good job! However, you likely have a few more things to add. R, G, and B need a resistor and capacitor in series to complete the circuit. You're dealing with a JP MD1, right? Either way, there should always be a cap and resistor on RGB due to the encoder circuit, and the handling of sync can be done a number of ways. I primarily dealt with Genesis 2 systems, though I have an early JP MD1 I still need to explore...

Check out the datasheet for the CXA1145 and see what parts you're missing in the chain...

I got rid of jail bars on my Genesis 2 by feeding the csync through a LM1881 and hex buffer circuit:

So i made that RGB cable for the MegaDrive 1.

Butchered D-sub socket:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097114

I had to widen the EXT port a little, but it turned out decent enough:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097114

Finished cable:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097190

Unfortunately there is still very noticeable jailbars in the picture Here are a few shots with LPF off and for some reason i still had scanlines on when taking these...
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097278
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1281097295

I tried with and without resistor on the C sync line. And also tried MKL's mod found on mmmonkey's site but the picture was exactly the same. It didn't help on my Master System Converter problems either.

Will it help if i add capasitors on the RGB lines?

[Konsolkongen]

I do have 75ohm resistors on the RGB lines I will add the capasitors when i get home. Does it matter which is first in line?

[RGB32E]

I do have 75ohm resistors on the RGB lines I will add the capasitors when i get home. Does it matter which is first in line?

Just follow the datasheet for the encoder....

[Konsolkongen]

I got rid of jail bars on my Genesis 2 by feeding the csync through a LM1881 and hex buffer circuit:

Where can i get one of these if the capasitors doesn't help?

[RGB32E]

I got rid of jail bars on my Genesis 2 by feeding the csync through a LM1881 and hex buffer circuit:

Where can i get one of these if the capasitors doesn't help?

Argg.....

Red Video -> 220uF Capacitor -> 75 ohm resistor -> connector
Green Video -> 220uF Capacitor -> 75 ohm resistor -> connector
Blue Video -> 220uF Capacitor -> 75 ohm resistor -> connector
CSYNC -> LM1881 circuit -> CD4049 circuit -> connector

[Fudoh]

Built it yourself. The circuit above was for modding PS1 systems to RGB if I'm not mistaken. Long discontinued.

[jandrogo]

The U2311H works with B0 @ 1080p via DVI-D output flawlessly!!!!!

I'm buying this monitor in two weeks, some in-game photos will be thanked

[aznxtc]

The U2311H works with B0 @ 1080p via DVI-D output flawlessly!!!!!

I'm buying this monitor in two weeks, some in-game photos will be thanked

I too am considering this monitor...How does it perform in B1 mode?...pics would be much appreciated.

[Fudoh]

What does the CD4049 actually do on the circuit ? Checking the data sheet, it has numerous inputs and outputs. Is the Sync signal the only one routed through it or are all four signals run into the CD4049 ?

[RGB32E]

What does the CD4049 actually do on the circuit ? Checking the data sheet, it has numerous inputs and outputs. Is the Sync signal the only one routed through it or are all four signals run into the CD4049 ?

LOL... this is where viletim comes in for theory, as he's mentioned several times on nfggames about "sync buffers". Pretty much ensures that the sync signal is normalized to a certain voltage range (between 0 and 5 VDC). There are 6 buffers on that circuit, 3 are used in parallel, and the output from that is wired to a solder point. The output from the first stage is sent to the other 3 buffers for another round of buffering, or something like that. :S

[RGB32E]

The U2311H works with B0 @ 1080p via DVI-D output flawlessly!!!!!

I'm buying this monitor in two weeks, some in-game photos will be thanked

I too am considering this monitor...How does it perform in B1 mode?...pics would be much appreciated.

I will perform full testing over the weekend... too many things to try! I've only used the DVI-D input so far (PC and XRGB in B0 @ 1080p).

UPDATE

B1 mode works great with this monitor (no notable problems)! Feels very quick (i.e. low input lag)!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNLLwV0d1RA&fmt=22

I haven't been able to get the XRGB-3 to work via the display port connection yet (DVI-D to HDMI + HDMI to Displayport adapter). We'll see!

[Konsolkongen]

I added the caps to the RGB lines on the MegaDrives motherboard. The picture did indeed get better but the jailbars are still noticeable, especially in the blue colored sky in Sonic 1. Took the very same cable and soldered on a MegaDrive 2 plug instead and the picture from that is perfect. Strangely the MegaDrive 2 stutters a lot and my MegaDrive 1 doesn't. I cant make much sense of that :/

There is no RF shielding in the Japanese MegaDrive 1, would the picture improve if i took that from a PAL MegaDrive and installed it in the Jap machine?

[RGB32E]

I added the caps to the RGB lines on the MegaDrives motherboard. The picture did indeed get better but the jailbars are still noticeable, especially in the blue colored sky in Sonic 1. Took the very same cable and soldered on a MegaDrive 2 plug instead and the picture from that is perfect. Strangely the MegaDrive 2 stutters a lot and my MegaDrive 1 doesn't. I cant make much sense of that :/

There is no RF shielding in the Japanese MegaDrive 1, would the picture improve if i took that from a PAL MegaDrive and installed it in the Jap machine?

Sounds like routing the RGB in the MD1 to the DB9 is causing noise to be picked up in the signal(s). Hence, it sounds like you need to acquire a 262 8 pin din plug to use instead!

[Konsolkongen]

Might be the next thing i try Oh i also added a LM1881 to the cable yesterday but the results were the same.

[RGB32E]

[RuffNEC]

do you get a picture with a MAK or PC Engine DUO RGB modded ? or is there also a sync problem on the U2311H ?

[Konsolkongen]

I will perform full testing over the weekend... too many things to try! I've only used the DVI-D input so far (PC and XRGB in B0 @ 1080p).

Pretty nice that the screen shows 1080p no problem. But how have you adjusted the proportions of the SNES image? The scaling is way off.

Notice the difference between the 1x1 pixels here:



Can you take another picture but this time with the Pixel Mapping setting ON. Would be nice to see how well that option works in 1080p