No Shooters on PS3!

[stryc9]

Can anybody tell me the reasons behind the lack of shooters on PS3? Really what is going on here, Cave were all over PS2 and now 360 owners have new HD versions of Do-Donpachi etc. Same with Raiden 4.
Has Microsoft aquired them exclusively or what? Why are small Japanese code houses even making software for a big American console anyway? I meen did I miss something here?

[Jockel]

lurk moar

[stryc9]

Sorry bud, is that the title of a shmup you know is coming to PS3 or you talking in German?

[Hibachi]

Happy to be corrected but I think it's a cost issue and I believe it is easier to code for the 360.

Cave themselves were not all over the PS2 as it was Arika and Taito that released the ports on that console.

Sony's submission process is terrible compared to Microsoft's which in itself is not great which could make them less keen.

[stryc9]

Any chance of getting some answers here? For some time my finger has been hovering above the right mouse button on the 'Buy Now' icon for a Jap 360 and I gotta tell you I dont really wanna have to buy in to Microsoft to play these Next Gen Shooters. Now I read even Milestone are jumping on the 360 bandwagon. Any hope for the future?

[gray117]

... yes this question has been much discussed already I believe.

Principle is that these are niche products generally made by relatively small teams and budgets. The size of the print run is a massive consideration and the investment in not only hardware but experience is another.

Any release of something/anything shmup related is something of an event, whatever path it comes down on. And it usually comes via the path of least resistance.

The fact is that microsoft was actively seeking japanese developers in a bid to establish themselves in the japanese market - even helping fund some jrpg like games. Sony did make some moves in this area - but mostly restricting their attention to supporting AAA developments.

Very importantly this, along with blu-ray issues, meant microsoft supported far smaller initial print runs of a release than sony does even now... This is a massive consideration for someone looking to publish a niche game...

Especially upon release ps3 dev kits were far more expensive, and the platform itself - whilst flexible - was unfamiliar. Pre-release, even specs were hard to come by, with developers turning up with notepads to press events. Post release, code libraries were also slow to appear. Some issues even sony couldn't solve 2 years down the line [ps2 emulation for example...]

A lot of this was overcome, but it did generate a bad reception/environment that had long-term implications for developers and consumers alike. Smaller devs simply do not have the bandwidth to explore solutions in these areas. For example, only now have valve flip-flopped on their opinion of ps3 viability...

Finally, talking about cave in particular - although being cautious - they've been wanting to court foreign investments and markets which could expand their business exponentially - combined with the possibility of retail exposure [whether it acutally happened or not] microsoft must have appeared a decent choice...

[There are also reports of various to-ing and froings on xbla and steam proposals ... which does suggest that not all plans went as well as cave might have hoped...]

The future is not so clear cut; with recent announcements being made for apple based products. However, cave has announced at least one [maybe two] more 360 products to come, and you'd imagine that if more games were to come then the liklihood is that they'll be 360 based...

So far other developers have largely followed in cave's wake so I'd imagine this trend to continue too...

If you fancy ketsui and doj BL then I'd heartily recommend a j360 .. esp2 [standard edition] and futari are region free... Deathsmiles is also in America...

Depending on what you're after, and if you're PAL or America, the value proposition is slightly different... But I certainly can't see the tables turning any time soon for the ps3, and region issues are definitely far slower and less predictable for PAL territories...

[stryc9]

Yeah so its not just me. Its like we are living in some sought of weird alternate nightmare reality where the japanese gaming public have been brainwashed into accepting an American made gaming console. Historicly unheard of and very strange.

[stryc9]

So know of anything on the horizon or are we destined to be trapped in a Bill Gates flavoured Bullet Hell forever?

[sirmax]

I remember someone at Cave saying, they choosed the X360 also it's easier porting the games for it. Correct me if my brain plays tricks on me.

[stryc9]

Yeah in that sense it looks like Microsoft have actually won in Japan. Everything else on PS3 is just ports. Lukily I like my fighting Games too so am playing Blazblue etc.

[gray117]

It's a reality not a nightmare ...

Multi-national American hardware companies are the backbone of most of the industry whether or not its manufactured or re-used by the Japanese companies.

Bill Gates has very little to do with anything these days... Hundreds of people are involved in these systems and software developments.

As for developers, and consumers, both markets have matured differently

Both 'core' systems made poor shmup related choices [ease of adoption, region locking] none of these decisions will be overturned purely upon the basis of shmup consumer demands...

PS3 is performing very well as of late, and always has done in Japan... of course the most popular gaming device is the ds. The real challenge still lies in getting people to buy a 'core' console...

[Acid King]

Just buy a japanese 360. If you want shooting games on a current gen console, it's a 360 or nothing. The 360 isn't doing well in Japan compared to the PS3 or the Wii but the difference is that the people in Japan who buy 360s buy them for games, not just to play Wii sports or to have a blu ray player. Most importantly, there are enough people over there to support the releases that they won't have stacks of unsold games sitting around for years. The 360 will be the console of choice for shooters until PS3 dev costs come down and they ease up on their approval process, which won't be until the tail end of this generation if at all.

[CptRansom]

A bunch of shit.

If you don't want to buy a 360, then don't buy a 360. The shooters in MAME -ALONE- will keep you busy pretty much forever if you actually try to play decently.

If you want to play the newer releases, then quit bitching and buy a 360. Whining about how you don't want to support Microsoft and live in a "Bill Gates flavored Bullet Hell" (seriously? wtf) isn't going to magically make these games appear on the PS3. It is how it is. Deal.

[stryc9]

Im not whinging you rude f**k, I I dont expect my comments to get these games released, just asking a few simple questions.PS I dont play MAME cos I hvent got the original games. and Im bored of non phyical media. Surley most STG players are collectors?

[Jockel]

Im not whinging you rude f**k,

Oh, so THATS how you can get your point across in a polite way!

[stryc9]

What sought of response do you expect to get basicaly slagging my questions off and calling them a bunch of shit?

[neorichieb1971]

Im not whinging you rude f**k, I I dont expect my comments to get these games released, just asking a few simple questions.PS I dont play MAME cos I hvent got the original games. and Im bored of non phyical media. Surley most STG players are collectors?

Most of the people here are tired of this argument so your a bit late to the party. As a PS3 only owner myself I am in the same boat. I am so anti MS that even if Cave games were free on 360 I wouldn't buy one. I wouldn't worry about not owing the rights to games on MAME. If you owned the original you wouldn't be playing on MAME.

The arguments that Cave put forward are non sensical. The libraries that 360 uses could be emulated by PS3. If Konami can make castlevania on two systems then Cave can make a 2D shmup on both systems. The fact is though, since the market is niche its better to huddle the market to one machine to save on costs. Thats just my opinion, but with other devs moving shmups to 360 it seems to be the case.

If you want to play Cave games, either buy the PCB or a Japanese 360. Simple as.

[gray117]

Libraries should be ported... Typically you would develop a platform that can branch. There are fundamental differences, and dev overheads in developing and bug fixing in this manner. Again this is not an impossible problem, but if you only have a couple of coders and if they're wary of a possibly more daunting system; you're kind of stuck... at least in the short term... Lets face it - cave has always had a trouble bridging the console gap and often used to prefer to out source it...

Konami is massive developer, and castlevania is a bigger franchise than any shmup...

Having said all of this I am personally a little confused as to why someone like cave doesn't release more downloadable ports, across as many platforms as possible... unless of course they've done some deals with a various devils past and present... and/or because egos demand a full price retail presence... or some cultural cache hit on some snazzy phone...

[stryc9]

Thanks gray 117 you (unlike another member of this room) have been very helpful.

[neorichieb1971]

Thanks gray 117 you (unlike another member of this room) have been very helpful.

It sounds like you only listen to those that are saying what you want to hear

[Endymion]

The only real solution to your problem is to go where the games are that you want to play and not concern yourself with politics of marketing. You are already alienated by your gaming tastes, preferring to play shooting games instead of (or even in addition to) the typical modern games. Why would you alienate yourself even further by preventing yourself from being able to play the games you enjoy? I don't think your rants about hating Microsoft, Bill Gates, the XBox 360, or the people who play it are good reasons to deny yourself. You might also consult Play Asia's regional compatibility guide, a lot of games are untested, but then a lot of games are supported as well, maybe some of the international games you want to play.

[everlust]

It's unfortunate for some people that it has becomes like this. I know many friends who purchased a PS3 on the basis of thinking such and such games would be released on it, akin to the PS2's vast software library. But instead, we've had an odd bunch of exclusive software to even titles making complete platform shifts, and markets in general changing.

Though I won't go into the reasoning and such as gray117 already explained things brilliantly, but essentially the modern STG console is the 360 and due to the current trends, will likely stay that way. Developers are following each other and at this point, i highly doubt that we will see PS3 ports of titles from both Cave and many other STG developers. So if you feel that you really want to experience all these current shmups, don't hesitate on buying a J360 as there's more than enough incentive to buy the Japanese version of the console, since you'll have complete access to the Japanese library, and many titles outside of Japan, which are region free.

It's something i actually regret to some extent. I don't have a J360 simply because of the fact that i already have two PAL 360's, one of which is completely dead. Wouldn't quite feel the best getting a third, when my second should of just been a Japanese version >.> But I'll be putting down for the slim soon

This isn't addressing your questions...but I'd say its a good time to buy a Japanese 360

[Elixir]

It's unfortunate but there's still PlatineDispositif's games for the US PSN. If it really bothers you that much, you could always sell your PS3 and buy a JP 360, or save up for a JP 360 as well.

[Kollision]

A little story here:

I was a naive person.
Years ago I made two big mistakes in my gaming life. (1) I sold my fat PS2 and (2) then bought a PS3 in the hopes of playing Gradius VI. At the time I purchased the PS3 I never imagined I would buy a Microsoft console. I waited and waited, but no shmups were headed towards Sony console. None. Zero.

And then came the day when I glanced at the possibility of getting a J360. I eventually did it. And I've been a happy "current-gen" shmupper since then. Granted, the PS3 isn't a total waste because you can play Gundemonium Collection and both Söldner-X games on it, but then again I'm much more fond of physical media than downloadable stuff.

Give up on waiting for shmups on the PS3. Unless we're talking about PSN, it just won't happen.

[Jeneki]

Video games are not politics. Drawing a line and choosing a side accomplishes nothing.

Just get a Japanese 360.

[spl]

I'm in the same boat as Kollision.

I mean in PS2 days - the XBOX's sales in japan was nowhere near the PS2. It was always the case that Japanese games always came out on PS2 etc.

I did the same thing - bought a PS3 in anticipation of the NTSC-J games to be released including shooters, much to my dismay months later they all come out on 360! It's really a frustrating thing.

Oh well, all the future ports will be iPhone only anyway so no need to worry about getting good games anymore - that time is over. Everything nowadays is just rehashed or LOLWW2FPS.

[professor ganson]

I did the same thing - bought a PS3 in anticipation of the NTSC-J games to be released including shooters, much to my dismay months later they all come out on 360! It's really a frustrating thing.

I'm very happy I bought a Jap PS3 early on, though I did so mainly for backward compatibility on my HDTV, not knowing that backward compatibility would be eliminated with newer models.

It seems to me that there are good enough titles on the PS3 for those who care about action games (not me). The surprising lack of interesting non-action Japanese titles is the more serious problem from my point of view. Valkyria Chronicles is the only must-own game I can think of at the moment.

[gameoverDude]

Keep your PS3 (yup, there is a little something for you on PSN) but get a Japanese 360 also. Grabbing a J360 and its ports of Ketsui and DOJBL will set you back far less than getting the Ketsui & DOJBL PCBs (doesn't a Ketsui PCB go for $1000+ now? I paid $560 shipped for mine about a year after the game hit arcades, probably early 2004).

[WinterMute]

then bought a PS3 in the hopes of playing Gradius VI.

haha, i remember Kutaragi "announcing" that in a list at TGS pre-PS3 launch all those years ago.

Even when Konami came out and said "We have absolutely no plans for Gradius VI at this time" it was still all over the press.

Kutaragi was a genius, but half the stuff that came out of his mouth was utter bullshit and fans would swallow it whole. Cell being so powerful that spare CPU cycles would be available in your local internet network from other PS3 owners so that games could use it to render even better graphics? loooool

[Joe T.]

How is one giant C-sucker corporation any different than another giant C-sucker corporation?

Oh yeah, one has Cave games on it's video gaming console.