Starcraft II!

[kengou]

I know there's not tons of PC gamers on here, and probably fewer RTS players, but I figure I'll try anyway. Starcraft II is out!! Who else is playing? Thoughts and impressions? Anyone up for multiplayer games?

[ROBOTRON]

I know there's not tons of PC gamers on here, and probably fewer RTS players, but I figure I'll try anyway. Starcraft II is out!! Who else is playing? Thoughts and impressions? Anyone up for multiplayer games?

I got my copy yesterday and willing to play once I get my skills warmed up.

[Ruldra]

Is it true that there's no LAN support?

[kengou]

Is it true that there's no LAN support?

Unfortunately, yes.

[mannerbot]

Game's terrible but hopefully I can make some decent money eBaying this CE I had preordered.

[BryanM]

I like how it costs sixty dollars. Why does it cost sixty dollars? Because, fuck you, is why.

I'm glad hype exhaustion killed this for me. There was a time years ago I would have felt some temptation.

But with the DRM and "macro mechanics", I might not even ever get the battle chest.

It's just a stupid remake, after all. Not like I can't still play the original...

[mortified_penguin]

I wasn't a huge fan of the original but I played it here and there. Picked up SC2 out of sheer boredom and I'm glad I did. Just about every aspect of it oozes quality. I've got two guest passes if anyone is still on the fence btw.

[njiska]

Bought a new PC yesterday and decided to pick up SC2 on a lark. To be honest i wasn't really looking forward to it, but after a few hours of play I'm finally remembering just how awesome the original was. Pleasantly surprised by the addition of segments between levels where you can buy permanent upgrades for your troops. Kind of a neat meta game addition that makes completing bonus objectives worth while. Also diggin' the story and the somewhat branching plot progression.

The DRM is a bit annoying, especially as it requires you log in every time you want to play. Really stupid that if a family has a copy they have to all either share a Battle.net account or buy extra licenses. Quite the opposite of how things should be.

[innerpattern]

SC2 = biggest troll in PC games history.

[BryanM]

SC2 = biggest troll in PC games history.

I think Hellgate was a better one. I mean, unlike Daikatana, people actually bought that game.

A pile of shit without a leader to man up and take charge, they still hilariously trolled us after the ship sank with crap like this:

|quote|
"The problem wasn't that we sold 500,000 units," said Goldstein. "The problem was we weren't getting subscription [revenue] from those units."

Goldstein guessed that if the game was subscription-only, it would have sold around 250,000 copies less, but the subscription revenue would have kept Flagship afloat.
|/quote|

Starcraft 2 is just how things are for the PC now. No thank you, says I. I like the idea of being allowed to own things. These assholes already have enough of my money as it is.

[Khan]

gotta be honest I will only play this game for the story with kerrigan and co, not really a massive fan of online rts games

[Ed Oscuro]

Everybody's been like FSSSGYEAAAAH WEN U GETTIN SC2 ED and I'm like Diablo III please

But at this rate, maybe not

[gct]

Dawn of War II couldn't get me to make a Steam account, but I made a Battle.net account for Starcraft II.

I've installed my copy on 3 machines already, I've done the offline validation on each of them but it seems like each time you play offline on a different machine, you need to log on again, and then it's good for offline until the next time you try offline on another machine...?

Game is sweet but damn I am horrible at it. I can beat the Easy AI in a skirmish, but I'd probably get steamrolled by a Medium AI.

[ryu]

Region locking, an intolerable price (for all "expansions" of the game combined) and the restrictions on custom maps is what's killing the game for me.

Not to mention there's so much more that's wrong with this "game". It's a fucking cash-cow on WoW level.

And Diablo III will be the same.

[PROMETHEUS]

As much as I perfectly understand the hate towards the money milking attitude (which I actually share), this is a game that will definitely position itself as the most long lasting and competitive game for the next decade. If anything, if you're interested in games that take a lot of skills, this cannot be overlooked since it's just one of the most skill-intense games that has ever been made.

Also, you can get the game for like 45€ on Amazon.co.uk, which is pretty much 60$ but in Europe is cheap for a game (at least it is in France, all games retail at 60€ when they're newly released, which is probably why no one ever buys any).

I have always been a dedicated Starcraft player (Starcraft is simply my favorite game and the one I played the most by far, made RTS my favorite genre), and will be a dedicated Starcraft 2 player.

By the way this avatar which I've had for quite some time on this site comes from Starcraft II :p
<====== Zeratul, a Protoss Dark Templar ^_^

[Jeneki]

I've waited so long for this game that I honestly don't mind waiting another 10 years for a Battle Chest edition.

[ROBOTRON]

Can't wait for the turret game that will be added later...is this one fan made or Blizzard's?

[CptRansom]

I'll pick it up in five years when Blizzard finishes balancing everything. Enjoy paying to test the game for them!

[PROMETHEUS]

Enjoy paying to test the game for them!

Or still have fun in the meantime and even earn money in tourneys ?

Starcraft 2 is actually already much more balanced than many RTS games have ever been even after years of release. Right now it's not even a question of major imbalances anymore, rather of making things mesh together even better so that the game is as interesting as it can possibly be.

[mortified_penguin]

I don't get all the nitpicking. It's a good game, you buy it, enjoy it and that's that. Oh noes DRM! Worst product ever.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

No LAN support.

[ryu]

I don't get all the nitpicking. It's a good game, you buy it, enjoy it and that's that. Oh noes DRM! Worst product ever.

And support all the consumer-unfriendly shit they're pulling, to make sure they'll keep at it and to have more companies tag along?

Warcraft III had more content for less than half the price of Star Craft II. Not to mention it was far more consumer friendly, but that's part of the trade anyways.

[Ed Oscuro]

And Diablo III will be the same.

At least it's gonna be purty.

[CptRansom]

Starcraft 2 is actually already much more balanced than many RTS games have ever been even after years of release. Right now it's not even a question of major imbalances anymore, rather of making things mesh together even better so that the game is as interesting as it can possibly be.

...That's actually refreshingly good news. I'm just thinking of the major changes they've made in D2 and SC:BW over the years. I'll hold off until I see more good things like this, and less bullshit about the graphics and all the easter eggs.

[PROMETHEUS]

...That's actually refreshingly good news. I'm just thinking of the major changes they've made in D2 and SC:BW over the years. I'll hold off until I see more good things like this, and less bullshit about the graphics and all the easter eggs.

Starcraft 2 is benefiting of a huge, huge experience not only of the company but of competitive gamers too, so it has been able to develop very fast during its beta phase. It is not as incredible as Starcraft is yet, but it's already better than most RTS games in multiplayer (very, very far better than C&C games for instance), and it also introduces many fun new gameplay elements / units.

Honestly unless you are a huge Starcraft connoisseur you will have a very hard time finding out what still makes it inferior at all.

[kengou]

The lack of LAN and the price are definitely valid concerns. Blizzard has said they're changing their mind about the region-locking due to fan outcry. The asia servers will be able to play on the NA/Euro servers soon, and I bet we'll see the rest of the regions follow suit. They're even going to add the chat channels from battle.net 1 back in because of fan outcry. Good on them for at least listening and changing their minds on some things, which isn't that common in our industry.

Of course, none of that really mattered enough to me to prevent me from buying it. It's quite simply the best RTS out there, and as Prometheus said, it's going to be the most deep and competitive game out there for a very long time. It's also remarkably well-balanced, I can only think of a few small balance complaints right now, certainly nothing game-breaking.

[BryanM]

I like how they added the busywork mechanic for no reason. Push another button every 30 seconds for moar minerals. Makes it easier to do not want.

Also not a fan of Dustin bringing in another voice actress just because he wanted a hot chick around. Doucheyness is too much. Too much!

Oh noes DRM! Worst product ever.

'xactly. Now you have the look of a hero.

DRM does not add $10 to the value of a product, it's -$40.

Shits all topsy turvey.

[PROMETHEUS]

I like how they added the busywork mechanic for no reason. Push another button every 30 seconds for moar minerals. Makes it easier to do not want.

You can't imagine how mistaken you are on that one.

Then again I understand because it's not like it's something you can easily figure out without following the community opinions + Blizzard response for years.

You should realize however that only Zerg's spawn larva could somewhat be considered "a busywork mechanic for no reason" to the unfamiliar player, although it's still on an energy tension with Creep Tumor and to a lesser extent the Transfusion ability of the Queen. But I understand how it would annoy players since it forces you to constantly, constantly spawn larvas at your hatches during play, which I personally don't like too much either.

Terran's MULE is on a energy tension with Scan so it leaves you with a constant choice to make between using that energy for more minerals or for scouting / detecting invisible units. Might sound too simple but that's a mechanic that can be strategically used in pretty complex ways already.

Then Protoss' Chrono Boost opens up even more possibilities than the MULE/Scan thing, since you can use it on any building to speed up specific research or production timings depending on your strategy, and you can also save it for later for multiple Chrono Boosts at a special time... This one opens up a lot of interesting strategic choices and really isn't constantly used on mining at all, if you're playing well.

[Spacehog]

What is this busywork mechanic??
Thinking of buying it but a bit put off by the prospect of having to learn shitloads of hotkeys by heart...

[BryanM]

Spacehog:

There are some things each race can do shortly into the game to increase the speed they build their army:

Terran
Upgrade command center to orbital command. It has the following spells:

Calldown MULE: A harvester unit appears and can harvest stuff. It mines faster than SCVs and carries more ore per trip.
Calldown Extra Supplies: Doubles the food a supply depot provides, but only once per depot. Is effectively a free supply depot you don't have to move away an scv to build.

Zerg
Build a queen after building a spawning pool:

Spawn Larva: Builds 4 extra larvae on a hatchery. They take ~40 seconds to hatch.

Protoss
The Nexus can

Chrono Boost: Targeted building's progress bars fill up 50% faster for ~20 seconds.

They all cost some energy, and the unit then has to recharge before they can be spammed again.

Not using these spells means you lose. (Against humans.)

spawn larva

I do appreciate an alternative to immediately building another Hatchery - it's a massively fragile time in the game and a time of crappy compromises. While being able to build a "nest" type building to be able to catch up somewhat with the other race's production speeds would have been nice, that wouldn't have been adding in extra stress to an already stressful game.

As for Scan, as a recon tool it should be the choice of last resort - scouting with units is obviously better than forfeiting the ~250 minerals or whatever the mules can drain out in most cases. And the thing is not a great defensive tool against stealth - the mana well always dries up long before they run out of ninjas.

So you're left with Moar Money / Offensive Stealth Detection / Emergency Recon / Double Supply Depot as options, in general. An overly conservative player will still spam these - they'll just leave 50 energy in the bank "just in case" for a situation that'll never happen. A good player would know when they're in a situation it can be actually useful.

A false dilemma is no dilemma at all.

Are the peon harvest speeds the same as SC1? I need to know how much more expensive Zerg units are than listed and how much cheaper Protoss units are, precisely.

Oh oh and do you still have to build a supply depot over the initial exit point of your command center if the minerals are over to the right? Or have they fixed that bug (the bug of having a massive resource advantage based on what starting point you get) and now make the peons come out from the closest point possible to a mineable object?