Anybody know the first thing about Linux?

[Rom Raider]

First off, let me start out by say HELLO SHMUPS UNIVERSE!

Does anybody know anything about Linux? My Windows PC has another bad malware virus, and I've had enough. It can't even really be cleaned at this point. Even if I did wanna keep my windows PC, I'm not paying 100 dollars to reinstall the operating system and buy a disk.

I really think it looks interesting and I can't imagine the learning curve is TOO bad. Does anyone know easy steps to install it? Or even where to start? I've been looking around, but some of the guides don't make sense.

[louisg]

I'd try Ubuntu first, it's fairly user-friendly and they, like a lot of other Linuxes, have a CD you can burn to try it without installing it (a "Live" disc). Make sure it supports your hardware before doing a full install, because getting stuff to work in Linux which isn't behaving is a headache. Sometimes if one Linux distribution doesn't support your hardware, another will.

Happy Linuxing!

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Before you make the jump, I'd recommend you evaluate your computing needs. Think about the software that you need and see if there are any equivalent in Linux. You may have to give up on console emulators, games, and some productivity software like Microsoft Office (tho OpenOffice is a good replacement.) You may be able to run those using WINE or Virtual PCs, but in my experience, it tends to be glitchy.

There's lots of distributions (versions) of Linux floating around. PCLinux is a rather new one and the interface is similar to Windows, which eases the learning curve. The coolest thing about it, tho, is that it has proprietary software like Adobe Flash, video codecs, DVD playback, etc already installed.

To get:
1. Go to: http://pclinuxos.com/?page_id=180
2. Download Full Version iso
3. Download MobaLiveCD http://mobalivecd.mobatek.net/en/
4. Run PClinux ISO from within Windows.

Alternatively, you can burn the ISO to a CD and boot your computer from the CD.

[KBZ]

pclinux os is good. The latest opensuse is great too.

[Slump]

Ubuntu and Linux Mint are both good places to start (arguably) with Linux. Linux Mint is basically Ubuntu with codecs and proprietary software ready to go out of the box. I think most distributions that use Debian's package system (.deb) are a good place for a new Linux user simply because it's easy to try out the HUGE collection of free software their system provides and uninstall it just as easily. I've also heard good things about openSUSE but never tried it myself. The biggest advice I can give you is if you do switch to Linux remember that the command line is your friend! Learn to use it and use it well and it will make your experience a lot more enjoyable. Also, like others have mentioned, be prepared to make sacrifices. While there are many good things about Linux that I prefer over Windows and Mac, it's still incompatible with a lot of things. Make sure you read up on things you need on a daily basis before installing an OS. For instance last time I was using Ubuntu the 64-bit version didn't have flash support! So be mindful of those things.

Oh and if you're a tinkerer and like learning and understanding what's really going on under the hood of your computer you should read up on Arch Linux which I currently use. Definitely not for novices but it's one of the most flexible and versatile distributions out there. And if you're really ambitious there is also Gentoo Linux which is for advanced users only. The day to day use of Gentoo will teach you everything there is to know about how Linux runs. Borderline headache inducing...

[GaijinPunch]

Get Ubuntu, even though I don't like what little of it I've used. Should be noob friendly.

And welcome to the club!

EDIT: I'm about a 5 year gentoo user. Gotten many headaches from it.

[t0yrobo]

Having a bit more experience with linux I don't think I'd be that interested in going back to Ubuntu (I'm not using linux at all now). But it's great to start with, the community s really good. Pretty much any question can be easily be answered with a google search.

[cools]

Ubuntu on this machine (9 year old laptop) due to minimum amount of messing around installing.
Debian on most other things.

EDIT: I'm about a 5 year gentoo user. Gotten many headaches from it.

I stopped using Gentoo about 5 years ago due to huge breakage How is it nowadays? I still love the Sorcerer concept.

[Jockel]

Ubuntu here for a few years, haven't missed Windows ever since.

[Ex-Cyber]

You may have to give up on console emulators

You might have to give up on some specific emulators that are Windows-only, but most noteworthy consoles do have emulators ported to Linux (not counting MESS). Basically, if the emulator is open-source, has been around for more than a few months, and is even remotely portable, someone has probably already done a Linux port. There are even some closed-source emulators with Linux ports (notably Kega Fusion and pSX).

[Rom Raider]

hey guys. I decided to go with Linux Mint. Honestly, I was thinking the install process was gonna be hard, but it was just one download.


Since playing with it for a few hours, I kind of really like it. I was a little bummed that some of the most used software out there isn't linux compatible (AIM, iTunes). However, i'm finding that most of the native linux replacements for those are just as good. Pidgin works great for my AIM list and rhythmbox plays all of my itunes files. All in all, I'm a happy camper.

I'm still trying to mess around with wine, but so far, it hasn't done me ALL that much good.


oh, and is it true that Mint was built off of Ubuntu? Because most of the Ubuntu downloads are compatible with mint.

[Specineff]

UFO, thanks for posting about PC Linux. I had Ubuntu and couldn't figure the FSCK out of it. Very Mac-ish. Just enlighten me on this, fellow shmuppers: Will a package meant for Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu work on PC Linux or another flavor?

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

You may have to give up on console emulators

You might have to give up on some specific emulators that are Windows-only, but most noteworthy consoles do have emulators ported to Linux (not counting MESS). Basically, if the emulator is open-source, has been around for more than a few months, and is even remotely portable, someone has probably already done a Linux port. There are even some closed-source emulators with Linux ports (notably Kega Fusion and pSX).

The Ubuntu repositories have emulators for just about every console the problem is that the stuff in there is ancient. Having to compile anything from source code is hardly something I'd recommend a new user.

Also, no good Sega Saturn emulator for Linux.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Will a package meant for Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu work on PC Linux or another flavor?

PClinux uses RPM packages so no.

[Slump]

oh, and is it true that Mint was built off of Ubuntu? Because most of the Ubuntu downloads are compatible with mint.

Yep, Linux Mint IS Ubuntu with a specialized "start bar" and some codecs out of the box. They use the same synaptic package manager, windows handler, stock desktop environment etc. There is very little actually distinguishing the two, at least last time I checked.

And as Unscathed mentioned PCLinux uses .rpm which shouldn't really be an issue as it's one of the oldest forms of package files and is well supported since fedora/Redhat use it. May not have the sheer number of programs like .deb but most well known linux programs offer .rpm packages as well as .deb.

[GaijinPunch]

I stopped using Gentoo about 5 years ago due to huge breakage How is it nowadays? I still love the Sorcerer concept.

It's not bad, but there's a few things Portage should be warning you about that it doesn't. For example, when certain libraries are updated if you don't do a revdep-rebuild, you will break your machine... and if you do a revdep-rebuild you might have to update a very large, painful package (IE, KDE 3.5 -> 4.X). I've had really, really shitty times trying to fix a system where I tried to revdep-rebuild with packages installed that were no longer in the portage tree. Total fist-fuck.

On that note though, if you keep your packages somewhat current, most of that goes away. I just put off KDE4 for a long time and it bit me.

I will say that I still prefer portage over apt-get (or whatever you call Ubunut's PM) but I've not used it all that much. sudo'ing for everything is annoying as well I've found.

[Ed Oscuro]

The reason to keep Windows around is programs...running at their "native code" speed.

It's not too hard to get even an XP machine more or less locked down. Install, immediately get all the Windows Updates (Microsoft Update better), then uninstall as much Microsoft stuff as possible (if you couldn't opt not to install it earlier) and avoid installing stuff that stays on all the time (notification area / "taskbar" iconned stuff). Get a HOSTS file and use it.

Linux would be great but I'm lazy; I don't like compiling stuff myself. Takes too much time. Also, once again too much stuff I use are Windows executables only.

[GaijinPunch]

Linux would be great but I'm lazy; I don't like compiling stuff myself. Takes too much time.

That's why God made Ubuntu (and any other "user-friendly" flavor off Linux like Redhat, Suse, etc.).

[Ex-Cyber]

The reason to keep Windows around is programs...running at their "native code" speed.

Wine does run programs with "native code" speed. Unfortunately, it doesn't have Windows XP's level of compatibility.

It's not too hard to get even an XP machine more or less locked down. Install, immediately get all the Windows Updates (Microsoft Update better), then uninstall as much Microsoft stuff as possible (if you couldn't opt not to install it earlier) and avoid installing stuff that stays on all the time (notification area / "taskbar" iconned stuff). Get a HOSTS file and use it.

All great advice, though I'd say use nLite to apply service packs/updates and get rid of junk before it's even installed. It's a little bit more work than installing and then tweaking everything post-install, but you only need to do it once and then keep the install CD around. If you really get into it or you reinstall frequently, you can also integrate drivers (especially convenient if XP didn't ship with the Ethernet/Wi-Fi drivers for your system) and even have it auto-install programs.

[Warp_Rattler]

Games and MS Word are the two obstacles that have kept me from switching whole hog to Linux. I hate OpenOffice with a passion (isn't it funny when the liberated alternative is more bloated than the "M$" product it's supposed to replace?) and while abiword is a reasonable alternative, when you've been deep into a program for every revision over close to a decade, it's hard to find anything else that suffices.

I've wanted to run a dual Win7/Linux configuration on my laptop, but I've run into this horrific problem present in every live distro I've tried so far (several versions of Ubuntu and Fedora as well as Crunchbang) seems to have issues with laptop wireless cards and WPA/WPA2-protected routers, where your router shows up in the network selection dialog, but you can't actually connect to the network. It's a problem that crops up on the Ubuntu forums every so often, and if you're lucky you can find the thread that involves this complicated bit of nonsense that involves somehow installing a wrapper for the Windows driver for the wireless card. There's a stunning lack of documentation on the issue, and it's quite reminiscent of the lack of Linux support for the modem chipsets in laptops back when dial-up was still acceptable. I'd love to be playing with Linux on this computer, but being unable to get on the home network is a deal-breaker, and the desktop is pretty much relegated to gaming duty nowadays. I love the idea of Linux and its configurability, but this sort of thing infuriates me to no end--a major distro doing lip service to increasing usability and trying to win people over to the Linux side can spend who knows how much effort on unrolling their stylish new purple/orange color scheme, but they apparently can't put more effort into fixing wireless issues for mobile users.

[ROBOTRON]

First off, let me start out by say HELLO SHMUPS UNIVERSE!

Does anybody know anything about Linux? My Windows PC has another bad malware virus, and I've had enough. It can't even really be cleaned at this point. Even if I did wanna keep my windows PC, I'm not paying 100 dollars to reinstall the operating system and buy a disk.

I really think it looks interesting and I can't imagine the learning curve is TOO bad. Does anyone know easy steps to install it? Or even where to start? I've been looking around, but some of the guides don't make sense.

The intruder of rom! We welcome the fact that Shmups11.org was chosen by you as a high position so that you may foolishly waste time!

We love your curiosity, and recognize the boots where the foot is long! Giving the load and the smooth flow of the data where Shmups11.org chooses your brain, it is the hot computer knowledge where regarding your questions can be answered here!

This time Linus OST' In regard to your question and we of the Unbuntu tribe has become extinct with the calculation of the internet being cut off. Now it is necessary to know that to invade the deep logic whose 1080 bits of fragments are deep, you must learn to become the master of debating. For example, if me finger is pulled, all of the interweb will be shaken, and you obtain the smelly surprise of the happier mind...but because you hop around the internet like the new locust, the opposite sex will desire your pecker which is attached, and hidden in the bush!

So, it has been a long day, intruder of Rom so we will greet you on the Shmups11.org bulletin board!

Don't forget to wipe your seat!

[cools]

It's not bad, but there's a few things Portage should be warning you about that it doesn't. For example, when certain libraries are updated if you don't do a revdep-rebuild, you will break your machine... and if you do a revdep-rebuild you might have to update a very large, painful package (IE, KDE 3.5 -> 4.X). I've had really, really shitty times trying to fix a system where I tried to revdep-rebuild with packages installed that were no longer in the portage tree. Total fist-fuck.

On that note though, if you keep your packages somewhat current, most of that goes away. I just put off KDE4 for a long time and it bit me.

I will say that I still prefer portage over apt-get (or whatever you call Ubunut's PM) but I've not used it all that much. sudo'ing for everything is annoying as well I've found.

"sudo su" gets you a root shell. Though I only use Ubuntu for when I don't want to mess with the system - it likes to do things it's own way. Debian is nice and straightforward.

It annoys me a little that up to date Debian tutorials don't follow the Debian guidelines. The "aptitude" package management tool is the correct current standard, and it's marvellous.

[Ed Oscuro]

I oughta ask - what's a good distro and some freeware packages for running image and video editing? I've had a look at Wiki to see what's offered, and sure there's GIMP and some barebones things for Linux video. Windows seems just as good on the free video editing wares front honestly, not to mention payware is what's standard in studios and with pros, but I'm poor.

The reason to keep Windows around is programs...running at their "native code" speed.

Wine does run programs with "native code" speed. Unfortunately, it doesn't have Windows XP's level of compatibility.

Alrighty. No DirectX that I know of, which kind of snuffs out the gaming aspect. It can't be too hard to dual boot though.

All great advice, though I'd say use nLite to apply service packs/updates and get rid of junk before it's even installed. It's a little bit more work than installing and then tweaking everything post-install, but you only need to do it once and then keep the install CD around. If you really get into it or you reinstall frequently, you can also integrate drivers (especially convenient if XP didn't ship with the Ethernet/Wi-Fi drivers for your system) and even have it auto-install programs.

I used nLite to slipstream AHCI drivers into SP2. I tried to slipstream SP3 into SP2, and tried goofing with other things. Didn't work, broken installation. I'd keep away from nLite unless absolutely necessary. I know the line of thought is "if it's not installed it can't be used maliciously against me" but interdependencies in XP are still so crazy that you can't really run the OS without the basics. At worst, you just have to stop some services and uninstall some components afterwards, which only takes a few minutes. The space savings aren't really that great, maybe 2 GB at most on an XP installation. Kind of like "registry cleaners / optimizers," it's trying to fix something for no measurable benefit. After weekly defragmentation on office and home computers, this sort of "slimming" talk with nLite, and the registry, must be one of the places where the most blood and tears have been shed, and for the littlest benefit. At most you get a couple gigs back, and probably no CPU cycles. Laaaame.

[Ex-Cyber]

Alrighty. No DirectX that I know of, which kind of snuffs out the gaming aspect.

It does have DirectX, and at a surprisingly high level, but it's not yet really at the point of replacing XP, largely because of the state of Linux GPU drivers (although Nvidia's are supposedly usable in more cases than anything else, probably because they've been sharing code with the Windows drivers for years; ATI seems to be catching up a bit in this regard too). If you happen to only be interested in a handful of games and those games happen to run well, then it might work out for you, but overall it's still nowhere near the level of broken stuff being the exception. The open-source GPU driver situation is being worked on, but it's in the middle of a big overhaul rather than incremental improvement so it's going to be a little while before it gets better at a user-visible level.

I hate OpenOffice with a passion (isn't it funny when the liberated alternative is more bloated than the "M$" product it's supposed to replace?)

OpenOffice actually isn't that bloated. Sun packed a lot into a relatively small package, including the bugginess, clunkiness, and performance hiccups of a far more bloated app.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, I stand corrected a second time, I'm working on a record y'see.

OpenOffice has been good for me whenever I've used it; haven't done a lot with Calc other than check out my PayPal history though.

[GaijinPunch]

"sudo su" gets you a root shell.

Ah, didn't know that. The guy I trained in Unix from the ground up has committed mutiny and has started installing Ubuntu in a remote office I support. If I can't figure something out I always dump it on his lap.

[brentsg]

I spend a lot of my time working with clients Solaris boxes (sparc based). Generally I work in OSX, which is nice an friendly but powerful.

I do all my video encoding and such on a Ubuntu machine, though that's about all I use it for.. (on it now). I loved Gentoo as well, which I built from source when I used it.

For a new user though Ubuntu is hard to beat. Red Hat is fine too, but I'd stick with Ubuntu. If you can't get it installed then you should be embarrassed. It's terribly simple to get running.

The one thing I've never accomplished in Ubuntu is making the fonts look proper. Everything always looks a bit "off".

[GaijinPunch]

The one thing I've never accomplished in Ubuntu is making the fonts look proper. Everything always looks a bit "off".

This really is a shortcoming of desktop programming in general... it is not unique Linux, any of it's Window managers, windows, or anything. It's still pretty bad if you ask me, as it's not uniform. I code in Qt which is platform independent, but getting everything to look "just right" is a bitch. Took me a couple of years but I finally realized coding some type of use settings window to let the user change fonts, line spacing, etc. once and save it is way, way, way better than trying to have the computer figure it out.

[Rom Raider]

First off, let me start out by say HELLO SHMUPS UNIVERSE!

Does anybody know anything about Linux? My Windows PC has another bad malware virus, and I've had enough. It can't even really be cleaned at this point. Even if I did wanna keep my windows PC, I'm not paying 100 dollars to reinstall the operating system and buy a disk.

I really think it looks interesting and I can't imagine the learning curve is TOO bad. Does anyone know easy steps to install it? Or even where to start? I've been looking around, but some of the guides don't make sense.

The intruder of rom! We welcome the fact that Shmups11.org was chosen by you as a high position so that you may foolishly waste time!

We love your curiosity, and recognize the boots where the foot is long! Giving the load and the smooth flow of the data where Shmups11.org chooses your brain, it is the hot computer knowledge where regarding your questions can be answered here!


This time Linus OST' In regard to your question and we of the Unbuntu tribe has become extinct with the calculation of the internet being cut off. Now it is necessary to know that to invade the deep logic whose 1080 bits of fragments are deep, you must learn to become the master of debating. For example, if me finger is pulled, all of the interweb will be shaken, and you obtain the smelly surprise of the happier mind...but because you hop around the internet like the new locust, the opposite sex will desire your pecker which is attached, and hidden in the bush!

So, it has been a long day, intruder of Rom so we will greet you on the Shmups11.org bulletin board!

Don't forget to wipe your seat!

yeah man. totally.


...what?

[Warp_Rattler]

I hate OpenOffice with a passion (isn't it funny when the liberated alternative is more bloated than the "M$" product it's supposed to replace?)

OpenOffice actually isn't that bloated. Sun packed a lot into a relatively small package, including the bugginess, clunkiness, and performance hiccups of a far more bloated app.

That's to be expected if you build a good part of your office suite over Java underpinnings.

I oughta ask - what's a good distro and some freeware packages for running image and video editing? I've had a look at Wiki to see what's offered, and sure there's GIMP and some barebones things for Linux video. Windows seems just as good on the free video editing wares front honestly, not to mention payware is what's standard in studios and with pros, but I'm poor.

GIMP is an amazing piece of software that manages to replicate the vast majority of functions of Photoshop, all for the very affordable price of $free. There's a Windows version as well, and while in years past it lagged a few revisions behind the Linux edition, it's now pretty close to current. It's one of the first programs that gets put on any of my computers.

I'm not as familiar with the Linux programs, but Windows has an excellent 1-2 combo in VirtualDub and Avisynth, though they both sport a bit of a learning curve, as most powerful tools tend to do.

A few Linux distros to try for image/video editing are Ubuntu Studio, puredyne (an interesting live distribution that saves information to a flash drive or a folder on your native OS's hard drive, allowing you persistent data while not having to sacrifice a drive/partition for the program) and 64 Studio. The focus of all three is multimedia creation, so they sport a good amount of audio/video/image editing tools.