XRGB-3

[Konsolkongen]

Good to hear that you're happy with the Gefen so far! Have you checked for the previous scaling problems (the different pixel width on Sonic MD for example or the weird moire pattern on Guilty Gear on Dreamcast) ?

I think the scaling problems in Sonic are a little better now. Still not perfect though, but that might just be a matter of adjusting the clock/phase settings on the Gefen correctly.
Haven't tried with the Dreamcast yet.

Do you have any problem with the Gefen's 1080p output or is it fine on the Panasonic ?

Works perfectly on the Panasonic with a standard HDMI cable and a very cheap DVI to HDMI adapter

Do you plan on letting the Gefen scale to 1080p ? What do think about the scaling - on it's own and by comparison to the Optoma ?

I don't know yet. The scaler in the Panasonic is pretty good so the difference between 480p and 1080p output is hard to see. For some reason though the fish and birds in the background of Sonic 1's bonus stages appeared to be moving more smoothly in 1080p, but that might be a TV problem. I'd say the scaling on its own is pretty nice. I haven't compared to the Optoma yet.

[Konsolkongen]

Using it with the Optoma did very little. The Optoma didn't even recognize 480p from the Gefen :/ And when feeding it 1080p there was a slight stuttering in Thunder Force AC on the Saturn which isn't here when using the Gefen directly to the TV. The MegaDrive however seems to stutter a little in all games and connected with or without the Optoma. That might be a MegaDrive thing or maybe the LM1881 in the RGB cable? I don't know as i haven't been able to use my MegaDrive for some time now

So i like how it is when using the Gefen with the TV only. I will keep it in 1080p because if i use 480p and run a game in 50Hz it looks very messed up

So this TV must have been used for more than 200 hours now. Is it safe to use pure black borders when playing 4:3 now?

I've been watching a lot of 4:3 series for several hours straight with black borders. Of course there has been noticeable retention after i stopped watching but within a few minutes or maybe a little longer it has always disappeared completely.

I would be lying if i said the Gray borders didn't annoy me just a little bit

[RGB32E]

Have any of you tried connecting the XRGB-3 to a displayport input (DVI-D to Displayport cable)?



Can't wait to try this on a U2311H...!

[Fudoh]

Displayport is supposed to be completely downwards compatible, meaning DVI-D to DP in B0 should work just fine. The other way around does not always work though (something with active and passive DPs, this is why there're powered $100 DP to DVI-D converters out there as well).

@Konsolkongen: I'll get another Gefen unit the next days (Hi-Def Scaler incl. VGA to DVI-D). I'll give this whole Optoma thing another try then. I can't really see why going wrong on your setup between the Gefen and the Optoma.

@RGB32E: the new 23" DEll is supposed to be based on the same IPS panel as the NEC EA231, which speaks for it. On the other hand, Dell pretty much nuked the whole inputlag situation on most of their previous IPS Panels (24 and 27"). EDIT: seems fine on the 23" model: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2311h.htm

[RGB32E]

Displayport is supposed to be completely downwards compatible, meaning DVI-D to DP in B0 should work just fine. The other way around does not always work though (something with active and passive DPs, this is why there're powered $100 DP to DVI-D converters out there as well).

@Konsolkongen: I'll get another Gefen unit the next days (Hi-Def Scaler incl. VGA to DVI-D). I'll give this whole Optoma thing another try then. I can't really see why going wrong on your setup between the Gefen and the Optoma.

@RGB32E: the new 23" DEll is supposed to be based on the same IPS panel as the NEC EA231, which speaks for it. On the other hand, Dell pretty much nuked the whole inputlag situation on most of their previous IPS Panels (24 and 27"). EDIT: seems fine on the 23" model: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2311h.htm

Check the tiny print on my last post...

There'll be another entry on the wiki within the next two weeks.

[Konsolkongen]

@Konsolkongen: I'll get another Gefen unit the next days (Hi-Def Scaler incl. VGA to DVI-D). I'll give this whole Optoma thing another try then. I can't really see why going wrong on your setup between the Gefen and the Optoma.

I doesn't really matter to me. As long as the black borders wont cause any harm to the TV i'm happy playing as it is. Still puzzled about the stuttering on MegaDrive, but i have a feeling that the LM1881 might be the cause of this. I'll remove it tomorrow and see if that makes the difference.

[Fudoh]

You're good with black borders. I doubt that you *only* use 4:3 material. As long you got some diversifaction in form of movies or other TV material, it should be absolutely fine.

[Konsolkongen]

Awesome Still am i the only one who is really excited about 50Hz and scanlines? I probably am but now i can play EU only titles like Discworld on the Saturn properly, hurray!

[RuffNEC]

Awesome Still am i the only one who is really excited about 50Hz and scanlines? I probably am but now i can play EU only titles like Discworld on the Saturn properly, hurray!

50hz will work too without modification I believe, or am I wrong?

I don't really see a reason to play 50hz games anymore I have more or less just ntsc consoles in the house.

[RuffNEC]

I have the SAME Problem now with my MAK Supergun on B1.

I can't get a picture on my BENQ E2200HD same as with my PCE. On an older Benq Monitor (FP731) it works without problem.

I think about getting a new monitor now but how can I know if he recognized those signals? He must have a pivot function and be atleas 24". Any models?

[Fudoh]

but how can I know if he recognized those signals?

you can't unless anyone with a XRGB has the same sources as you do. In general MOST displays are pretty compatible with the XRGB in B1. Seems to be bad luck that your BenQ behaves the way it does.

He must have a pivot function and be atleas 24". Any models?

HP ZR24w, Dell U2410, both IPS, both 16:9, both under 1 frame lag.

You could try adding an LM1881 (or another sync stripped) for those systems and use the RGBHV input on the back instead of the RGBs input on front of the XRGB. This way you're making major changes to the sync signal and it might be worth trying this and see if your BenQ reacts differently then.

[RGB32E]

http://kotaku.com/5595515/street-fighte ... -comic+con

What do you guys think the appropriate scaling algorithms should be? Backbone Ent never seems to hit the nail on any nail's head?

How likely will they have teams of people redrawing all of the frames of animation for an HD Online version of 3S?

Hmm...

Food for thought.

[Fudoh]

Whatever they do with it, I'd really wish for a mode with the original graphics. I really disliked SF2THD.

[Konsolkongen]

Pretty much all those Live Arcade and PSN emulations of old titles looks washed out and ugly. You get a much nicer image just connecting the original console with RGB directly to your TV. Amazing how they just can't seem to get it right...

I don't know anyone who likes the graphics in SF2THD either. It looks like a cheap flash-based webbrowser ripoff.

[SGGG2]

I don't know anyone who likes the graphics in SF2THD either. It looks like a cheap flash-based webbrowser ripoff.

What did they expect when they chose a comic company who artists likely have little to no formal art training? Capcom was so unhappy with the visuals the game almost never came out, Udon managed to eek out something acceptable. They decided to never use comic artists again, only professional artists and animators.

[RuffNEC]

Pretty much all those Live Arcade and PSN emulations of old titles looks washed out and ugly. You get a much nicer image just connecting the original console with RGB directly to your TV. Amazing how they just can't seem to get it right...

I don't know anyone who likes the graphics in SF2THD either. It looks like a cheap flash-based webbrowser ripoff.

you should check Final Fight/Magic Sword Double impact title....

this is how it should be. There are loads of filters to choose from incl. Scanlines.

[Zapf]

They'll probably do the same thing they did with mvc2 on xbl/psn and just add a filter option and faux widescreen option (or maybe zoom widescreen, or maybe both!)

[Konsolkongen]

50hz will work too without modification I believe, or am I wrong?

Yes but most TV's and monitors won't accept 50Hz through VGA. That's why i find it so fascinating that the Gefen just displays it anyway

I was able to find the cause of the stuttering MegaDrive image. The problem turned out to be the MegaDrive 2 itself. Very strange that i haven't noticed it before...

I made a RGB cable for my MegaDrive 1 and it just works perfectly. The image is quite good too, although not as good as the MD2 and LPF has to be on now :/

I tried removing the LM1881 and switching between compsite and composite sync, but still i can't get a steady picture from the Master System Converter.

I found this guide to fix the sync issues between MD1 and LCD screens. Think that would make a difference?
http://mmmonkey.co.uk/console/sega/md-sync.htm

[Fudoh]

I found this guide to fix the sync issues between MD1 and LCD screens. Think that would make a difference?

do you currently use composite video from the MD's RGB output for sync purposes ? It's been a while since I had a MD, but getting it to output proper sync instead wasn't as complicated as shown on the link. All neccessary was the change the pin on the RGB cable's MD end (from composite video to sync) and to add the 75ohm resistor on the sync line - no internal mods neccessary. Without the resistor the MD won't display any image at all. What I don't understand is what the capacitor is supposed to do in the linked mod - I never used one.

Using a MD1 with composite video as sync isn't good. The colors appear dithered and their should serious jailbar effects in the background. Pure sync is a must, but from my experience it can be done without a LM1881.

[Konsolkongen]

I'm using Composite Sync (not composite video) > LM1881 at the moment. Perhaps i should replace the LM1881 with a 75ohm resistor?

[MKL]

I found this guide to fix the sync issues between MD1 and LCD screens. Think that would make a difference?

It's been a while since I had a MD, but getting it to output proper sync instead wasn't as complicated as shown on the link. All neccessary was the change the pin on the RGB cable's MD end (from composite video to sync) and to add the 75ohm resistor on the sync line - no internal mods neccessary. Without the resistor the MD won't display any image at all. What I don't understand is what the capacitor is supposed to do in the linked mod - I never used one.

Since mmmonkey's guide is based on my idea, I think I can answer this. The capacitor is for AC coupling purposes and all outputs (RGB, composite video, composite sync) of the RGB encoder are supposed to have it (see the 1st pic in my link, taken from the datasheet). Also, my mod uses the CSync output (pin 11) of the encoder, which for unknown reasons is unused on the Mega Drive as pin 7 (sync) of the A/V port is directly connected to pin 10 (Csync in) of the encoder, which is what you're using without an internal mod. In the end, what you're doing may work anyway but my mod is more accurate.

[Konsolkongen]

Thank you for the explanation. Seems like it would be a good idea to check out your mod then

My MD1 is a Japanese version, one of the very first with EXT port on the back. But i don't suppose there are any differences besides that?

Your link is not working?

[Fudoh]

Also, my mod uses the CSync output (pin 11) of the encoder, which for unknown reasons is unused on the Mega Drive as pin 7 (sync) of the A/V port is directly connected to pin 10 (Csync in) of the encoder,

are you sure about the encoder/decoder pinout ? What kind of Mega Drive (which region) did you use for the mods ?

I have used a modded RGB cable (using the C-Sync output, Pin 7, with a resistor in line) on a series of internally *unmodded* japanese MD1 units. Your suggestion that this Pin of the A/V out isn't wired to any output at all, doesn't really fit this experience of mine.

[MKL]

Also, my mod uses the CSync output (pin 11) of the encoder, which for unknown reasons is unused on the Mega Drive as pin 7 (sync) of the A/V port is directly connected to pin 10 (Csync in) of the encoder,

are you sure about the encoder/decoder pinout ? What kind of Mega Drive (which region) did you use for the mods ?

I have used a modded RGB cable (using the C-Sync output, Pin 7, with a resistor in line) on a series of internally *unmodded* japanese MD1 units. Your suggestion that this Pin of the A/V out isn't wired to any output at all, doesn't really fit this experience of mine.

That's not what I said: pin 7 of the A/V port is wired to pin 10 of the RGB encoder which is the sync in pin whereas if Sega had done things right (like SNK did with the Neo Geo, for instance) they would have wired it to pin 11 of the encoder (sync out, this being the unused pin) and they would have added the 220uF cap and 75ohm resistor in series with it instead of doing a direct connection. Check this pic (a Japanese MD btw) to see what I mean:

http://a.imageshack.us/img716/8069/img5w.jpg
(A/V pin 7 is the sync signal as if it were taken directly from the VDP where it is generated)

@Konsolkongen: The link I posted is good but the gamesx forums are down at the moment. Check back later.

[Fudoh]

Understood! But is there an actual difference between the original C-Sync fed into the Sony encoder through Pin 10 and the C-Sync output of the same chip on Pin 11 ? I had really good results with using this "bypassed" sync signal and didn't see any need for modding the MD internally.

[Konsolkongen]

More about the stuttering and hiccups using the Gefen. Just connected my PAL Saturn (fully modded) to test if 50Hz was working with that too. It does.

But unfortunately this console shows the same stuttering as my MegaDrive 2 I connected it directly to my TV and there was no stuttering at all. Also this Saturn looked unbelievable good compared to the other... Which is very strange as the JAP Saturn has a slightly better picture than the PAL when using the XRGB-3 :O

I'm guessing this is somehow a Gefen or maybe a TV problem then?

Both the Japanese Saturn (region modified, 60Hz only) and MegaDrive 1 (fully modified) works perfectly fine.

And the EU Saturn (fully modified) and MegaDrive 2 (fully modified) makes the image stutter.

Could this somehow be because they are EU machines modified to display 60Hz and the JAP machines are 60Hz native and modified to show 50Hz?

I was under the impression that the consoles were the same regardless of region besides a few internal jumper settings?

[barmskii]

Hi all

I have trawled thios thread to try and find the problem I am having but can't find a hit on any combinations of keywords so here goes:

I bought an XRGB3 to use my consoles (PCE, PS2, Saturn, SNES, Megadrive) on a 32 inch LG LCD tv. At the moment I only have scart cables for 2 of my consoles and they are both Euro ones so obviously I won't be plugging those in directly!

So whilst I waited for a euro to 21pin jp scart adapter I thought I would try my PS2 over component using the front D-sub connection.

If I use it in B0 mode I can get a fairly decent picture but I really want to emulate scanlines so I tried it in B1 but whatever I do I just get 'Invalid Format' message on my LCD TV, so I figure it is trying to output a resolution that my TV doesn't like so I have changed the resolution to all the different settings (including all the widescreen ones) in the seventh menu but I just keep getting the same message.

So today my adapter turns up so I plug in my megadrive via the scart socket and I have exactly the same problem, it works fine in B0 but is invalid in B1!!!

Again i've tried going through different resolution settings and nothing seems to help.

The XRGB3 is plugged in to my LCD tv via VGA as it doesn't have a DVI input so I don't know whether this would be a problem, although I also tried it via DVI in my pc monitor and it did the same thing.

I'm completely stuck!! Does anybody have any idea where I might be going wrong? I have trawled the marvelous hazard city site for answers but it doesn't seem to cover this unless I am missing something.

I would really really appreciate your help guys.

Thanks
Paul

[RGB32E]

Hi all

I have trawled thios thread to try and find the problem I am having but can't find a hit on any combinations of keywords so here goes:

I bought an XRGB3 to use my consoles (PCE, PS2, Saturn, SNES, Megadrive) on a 32 inch LG LCD tv. At the moment I only have scart cables for 2 of my consoles and they are both Euro ones so obviously I won't be plugging those in directly!

So whilst I waited for a euro to 21pin jp scart adapter I thought I would try my PS2 over component using the front D-sub connection.

If I use it in B0 mode I can get a fairly decent picture but I really want to emulate scanlines so I tried it in B1 but whatever I do I just get 'Invalid Format' message on my LCD TV, so I figure it is trying to output a resolution that my TV doesn't like so I have changed the resolution to all the different settings (including all the widescreen ones) in the seventh menu but I just keep getting the same message.

So today my adapter turns up so I plug in my megadrive via the scart socket and I have exactly the same problem, it works fine in B0 but is invalid in B1!!!

Again i've tried going through different resolution settings and nothing seems to help.

The XRGB3 is plugged in to my LCD tv via VGA as it doesn't have a DVI input so I don't know whether this would be a problem, although I also tried it via DVI in my pc monitor and it did the same thing.

I'm completely stuck!! Does anybody have any idea where I might be going wrong? I have trawled the marvelous hazard city site for answers but it doesn't seem to cover this unless I am missing something.

I would really really appreciate your help guys.

Thanks
Paul

Sounds like the Rx for the VGA input has tight tolerences for signal timing. Perhaps a sync processor from Extron or the like will make B1 compatible with your TV. Also, make sure that your screen settings (size/position) are set to the default values. I've had instances where I wouldn't get a picture in B1 mode when the vertical position setting was greater than 32! Try a different monitor and see if you get different results.

And of course, try resetting the settings (hold menu+ok on front of unit and push the power button).

[Kiel]

Yeah it happens, I can't use B1 mode on my TV either.

I'm fine with that though because the image is amazing in 1080p and I don't/can't notice any frame lag and scanlines are not important to me. I'll throw a game in my cab if I want em.

[barmskii]

Thanks for the help so far guys.

I'm not sure it is a problem with my TV as I can get it to work in B1 with my saturn plugged in via composite, obviously the picture ain't so great but it works with scanlines so that definitely outputs a resolution that my tv is happy with. So I can only imagine it is an adjustment that needs to be made on the scart/component inputs??

Really weird.