Recommend an Apple Mac laptop capture card?

[Skykid]

Anyone ever tried capturing game stuff on a Mac laptop? I've got one of the latest macbook's, but my desktop PC is too out of date to support a decent capturing device.

Being a lappy, I'm assuming I need something external (USB) and my searches have led me to this:

http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmen ... t1.en.html

But it seems so cheap I'm not sure if it's any good, and I can't see any RGB support

I could plug my XRGB-2+ into it via S-video for older consoles, but I'm not sure how it's going to turn out. (Probably shit.)

Any advice would be appreciated - recording game vids and taking decent screenshots for the high score folder is what I'm after.

[zakk]

You're not really going to find RGB support, it's all going to be component/hdmi at the most.


Do you care about 480p/720p? If you just want SD stuff the elgato usb capture is probably fine. The blackmagic usb dongle is probably ok too. You can also find various SD video -> firewire bridges and use that too.

[Skykid]

You're not really going to find RGB support, it's all going to be component/hdmi at the most.


Do you care about 480p/720p? If you just want SD stuff the elgato usb capture is probably fine. The blackmagic usb dongle is probably ok too. You can also find various SD video -> firewire bridges and use that too.

Thanks Zakk, I hadn't heard about the blackmagic one. Have you had any experiences with these devices at all? How standard is standard def - does it look pretty rough?
It would be nice to get at least to 480p but I guess there's nothing out there.

(And nothing for RGB... that's a real pain in the ass. )

[Ghegs]

Is it not an option to you to use capture hardware that isn't tied to your computer hardware? Like DVD recorders, assuming SD is enough for you. Easy to get RGB and no need to worry about computer specs. Of course it adds a bit more hassle when you need to shuffle the DVD-RW's around, but I've really been liking this setup.

[Skykid]

Is it not an option to you to use capture hardware that isn't tied to your computer hardware? Like DVD recorders, assuming SD is enough for you. Easy to get RGB and no need to worry about computer specs. Of course it adds a bit more hassle when you need to shuffle the DVD-RW's around, but I've really been liking this setup.

Hey Ghegs - so is that what you did for your vids, used a DVD recorder? (Incredible Shattered Solider run btw - wish I could do that )

I don't like the idea of slinging DVD-RW's back and forth, I'd rather save recordings digitally if possible - although the quality of your vids are fine. May I ask how you rig it up? Did you run your console into your PC and play through the PC monitor (I heard there are some lag issues like this, but I can't see any probs with that on your vids.) What software did you use to rip the run, and was it ripped in realtime?

Sorry if that's confusing (I'm a bit confused too, first time I've looked into such things.)

[Ghegs]

(Incredible Shattered Solider run btw - wish I could do that )

Thanks!

Yeah, I capture all my video footage with a DVD recorder nowadays but I used a USB dongle in the past. My site actually has some info on how my systems are set up, so I'll just summarize here: the RGB signal from my PS2/MVS/Xbox 360/whatever is outputted to both the TV and the DVD recorder (not through the recorder to the TV - that would introduce lag when recording). The footage is recorded to the device's harddrive. If I don't like it, I just delete it. If I do decide to keep it, I burn it to a DVD-RW. I bring the DVD-RW to my computer and use a program to rip it into a .VOB file. Then I use another program to make an .AVI file out of it and then yet another program (and scripts) to make the finished video which I then upload. Format the DVD-RW so it's good for another use, rinse and repeat.

(You could actually make an uploadable video when you first make an .AVI out of the .VOB file, but I do it this way for various reason. More accurate control over the end result, basically.)

So yes, there are a bit more steps compared to having a capture dongle/card in your computer which automatically gives you a video file you can then edit or maybe even upload as-is. And of course you can't stream footage on ustream or justin.tv and such with this. However, it does have its pros as well:

*You don't need to have your consoles and computer in close proximity.
*No need to have your computer on to record some footage.
*Your computer breaks down, OS goes bonkers or you need to run something CPU-intensive that could make a capture card drop frames? No problem, record all you want and transfer them to the computer when you can.
*You can keep your captured footage stored in the DVD recorder as well, no need to have huge files taking up the disc space on your computer.


Hope that helps some. If you're still unclear on how my system is set up I could make a proper diagram out of it. Or if you have any other questions, ask away.

[Skykid]

No that's cool! That does make sense - obviously buying a DVD recorder with a big hard drive would be good for storage. I never figured on buying a DVD recorder before as I couldn't see a need (don't watch much TV to want to record programmes and stuff.) However, I can see the benefit of recording directly from the TV, especially as you can hook up through RGB (or in my case, through an XRGB2+ as I have an LCD rather than a CRT TV now).

But (!) I don't see the benefit too much of having RGB when the recording is standard definition anyway. I'm sure the quality is still better, but the finer details won't be picked up on SD right? So it sort of defeats the purpose.

I also can see myself being a little lazy going through the process, and eventually it ending up as a lost investment because I can't be bothered to record to the DVD recorder, re-encode file formats or burn to DVD-RW's. I reckon instant digital files would suit me better.

However, it's definitely an option, so I appreciate the help. It's by far the best (lag free) method and does save the hassle of seating a laptop by the TV, finding an RGB compatible capture device and worrying about the computer spazzing out and dropping frames etc.

I reckon (guess work here) my best bet is to get a Mac compatible USB dongle capture device that can at least do HD (or preferably VGA) and then use the XRGB2+ for running RGB consoles on the TV, and then use (HDMI?) to connect to the TV to the dongle.

Wow, I'm even confusing myself now!

My biggest problem is, I don't know if the above method will work.

[Fudoh]

But (!) I don't see the benefit too much of having RGB when the recording is standard definition anyway

Video, S-Video, Component and RGB - they are all standard definition. It definitely makes a huge difference. As long as you keep a high bit rate when recording MPEG2 (up to 9mbit/s on DVD and usually up to 15mbit in HDD only), the difference in feeding the different signals will most definitely be very visible.

Choosing a DVD-RAM capable DVD/HDD recorder (e.g. from Panasonic) makes things a bit easier, but might require to get a DVD-Ram capable DVD drive on your PC as well.

[Fudoh]

my best bet is to get a Mac compatible USB dongle capture device that can at least do HD (or preferably VGA) and then use the XRGB2+ for running RGB consoles on the TV, and then use (HDMI?) to connect to the TV to the dongle.

won't work... The XRGB series locks the output refresh rate to the input rate and that's usually slightly off the 59.94Hz standard (so the capture device won't work anymore). Your basic idea (using a HD capable capture device and an upscaler to connect your devices) has been discussed here before. You would need a 720p-capable upscaler which is able to unlock the output refresh rate from the inputs (an iScan HD or something in that range).

Besides, you won't find a USB device that records VGA and the ones able to record HD (720p) require USB 3.0

[zakk]

my best bet is to get a Mac compatible USB dongle capture device that can at least do HD (or preferably VGA) and then use the XRGB2+ for running RGB consoles on the TV, and then use (HDMI?) to connect to the TV to the dongle.

won't work... The XRGB series locks the output refresh rate to the input rate and that's usually slightly off the 59.94Hz standard (so the capture device won't work anymore). Your basic idea (using a HD capable capture device and an upscaler to connect your devices) has been discussed here before. You would need a 720p-capable upscaler which is able to unlock the output refresh rate from the inputs (an iScan HD or something in that range).

Besides, you won't find a USB device that records VGA and the ones able to record HD (720p) require USB 3.0

Unless you're ok with one that does onboard h264, which depending on exactly what he wants to do, may be acceptable.

[Skykid]

Ha ha, now I'm confused!

Okay, so my XRGB2+/HD dongle idea won't work.

Here are the specs of the most powerful PC in the house, which happens to be my Macbook:

MacBook
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.26 GHz
L2 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 2 GB
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M

Not exactly the Schwarzenegger of personal computers, but it's the best I've got. There are 2 USB ports but NO firewire ports.

So I'm looking for a capture device that meets the following:

- Can capture decent resolution video and screen stills of games on consoles past and present (at least up to the standard of Gheg's vids)
- Create's instant digital files for editing/storage etc
- Can be hooked to the laptop but played through the TV so there's no play lag
- Is fairly small and fuss free

I have:

- An LCD TV as my primary TV with all types of inputs available. (although there's a small CRT in the bedroom with a scart input only.)
- An XRGB2+
- Macbook as specified above

Any of you smart AV guys know what my best bet is?

Thanks for the help folks

EDIT: I think this is what I need? Not necessarily true HD, but supports component/composite(ugh)/S-video... but what will happen if I'm running a snes game or something on the TV, will it be able to capture it? I don't get it because it can capture an analogue device like VHS so it should be able to get old console stuffs no?
It says it captures to the H.264 format, which is meant to be pretty good afaik.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/produc ... orecorder/

Thanks again!

EDIT EDIT: Hmmm looks okay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j4e9Bkz ... re=related

I want to see 2D tho.

[Fudoh]

Unfortunately all the BMD devices won't support 240p signals, so you're out of luck with recordning anything older than a PS2. With your only connection available being USB 2.0 you also need device which does the compression on itself. In other words: you're pretty much screwed, unless you invest quite some money.

Your options are:

1.) Use a HDD/DVD recorder as Ghegs suggested.

2.) BMD h.264 Recorder ( http://blackmagic-design.com/products/h264prorecorder/ ) for recording from PS2, 360, PS3 etc. If you want to record vintage systems you additionally need a video processor which takes 240p RGBs and convert it to 720p HDMI. E.g. an iScan HD+ or VP30.

3.) Hauppage HD PVR. Basically the same as the BMD above but with analogue inputs only. Not sure about it's 240p capabilites. Probably the same as the BMD, so you need an additional processor as well for 240p RGBs recording.

I don't see anything else out there....

[Fudoh]

PS: The USB Video Rekorder from BMD only supports SD and no 240p after all. It's also quite messy to convert 240p to 480i. You'd need an upscaler for your 240p material (e.g. your XRGB) and you need a Scan converter (480p-480i) behind that. The quality suffers visibly with this process.

[Skykid]

Right, got it.

Crap.

So these are my best options:

1.) Use a HDD/DVD recorder as Ghegs suggested.

2.) BMD h.264 Recorder ( http://blackmagic-design.com/products/h264prorecorder/ ) for recording from PS2, 360, PS3 etc. If you want to record vintage systems you additionally need a video processor which takes 240p RGBs and convert it to 720p HDMI. E.g. an iScan HD+ or VP30.

Can you advise as to what video processor might be suitable. Is the method of 240p conversion a laborious, lengthy process.

It would be nice to find a DVD recorder that rips straight to an AVI or digital file format that can be thrown into video editing software for compression and tweaking n' stuff.

@ Ghegs - is there any reason your vids of 3D stuffs (like Silpheed) are larger resolutions than your 2D stuff (Gradius/Harmful Park etc)?

Thanks!

[Fudoh]

Can you advise as to what video processor might be suitable. Is the method of 240p conversion a laborious, lengthy process.

It's "no" process at all. Once you've setup the hardware, it's just "hit the record button". Everything else is plug'n play. You play and have a h.264 .avi (or .mov) file placed on your PC harddrive. Doesn't get any easier. With this setup you can record everything from SD low-res (240p) to standard SD to HD through the best connections available (RGB, YUV, HDMI).

Here's Muchi Muchi Pork video recorded and posted by zakk a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvVYhrE38EM (hit the 720p button on youtube1)

And here's the thread to it: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=30

There are some suitable (and rather affordable) processors out there. Have a look at the DVDO iScan HD+, the VP20 and the VP30. These are usually in the $200 to $350 range.

Depending on your location (USA?) it's not easy to find a RGB-able DVD/HDD recorder, so the prices of those might not be that cheap either. if you plan on recording often, the combination of the BMD device plus a VP is the better choice after all.

[Ghegs]

@ Ghegs - is there any reason your vids of 3D stuffs (like Silpheed) are larger resolutions than your 2D stuff (Gradius/Harmful Park etc)?

That's just keeping the game's native resolution (or as close to it as possible). There's no point in making a 640x480 video of a Famicom game when the game is natively 320x240* anyway. The viewer can easily zoom the video when watching it on their favourite media player.

*Not technically accurate, I know.

Fudoh: Skykid is UK-based so RGB-capable DVD recorders aren't hard to come by. I wouldn't have recommended that option to someone in the US.

[Skykid]

I took one look at this and nearly spat my drink out.

http://pms.hazard-city.de/video_matrix.png

I only want to record some vids and grab some screens!

One of the main stumbling blocks seems to be wanting to use a MAC rather than a PC. The new BM intensity shuttle won't work for me so the BMD h.264 Recorder seems to be the only good USB opportunity available.

If I get one of those and then either a VDO iScan HD+, VP20 or VP30, what would the setup look like?

Would it be SNES via RGB scart (as an example) --> XRGB2+ --> connect to LCD via VGA --> LCD connected to scan converter ---> BM recorder ---> Macbook?

Ghegs, have you got any recommendations for DVD recorders at all and do you know of any that let you record to the HD in a digital file format and then maybe connect an external HD via USB so that you can grab the raw file (AVI?) and work on it in a PC?

Thanks guys!

[Fudoh]

If I get one of those and then either a VDO iScan HD+, VP20 or VP30, what would the setup look like?
Would it be SNES via RGB scart (as an example) --> XRGB2+ --> connect to LCD via VGA --> LCD connected to scan converter ---> BM recorder ---> Macbook?

Depends. If you want to keep the XRGB in the line to play with scanlines, then split up the signal behind your sources (e.g. using a Scart switch with two outputs). One way is your "playing" connection through the XRGB into your TV and the other connection is your "recording" one (source -> iScan -> BMD recorder).

[Ghegs]

Ghegs, have you got any recommendations for DVD recorders at all and do you know of any that let you record to the HD in a digital file format and then maybe connect an external HD via USB so that you can grab the raw file (AVI?) and work on it in a PC?

All I can really recommend is the one I use since that's the only DVD recorder I have lots of experience with. That one is an old model now though, I'd hazard a guess that the current model is at least just as good, hopefully even better. And of course I could be wrong, but I really don't think you'll find a recorder which saves the footage as an AVI file which you can then simply copy to a USB harddrive you've connected to the device. These things do have USB ports, but they're for viewing image and video files you already have on a USB stick, you can't copy anything into them.

[Skykid]

If I get one of those and then either a VDO iScan HD+, VP20 or VP30, what would the setup look like?
Would it be SNES via RGB scart (as an example) --> XRGB2+ --> connect to LCD via VGA --> LCD connected to scan converter ---> BM recorder ---> Macbook?

Depends. If you want to keep the XRGB in the line to play with scanlines, then split up the signal behind your sources (e.g. using a Scart switch with two outputs). One way is your "playing" connection through the XRGB into your TV and the other connection is your "recording" one (source -> iScan -> BMD recorder).

Why, does the scan converter basically do the same job as the XRGB2+? (I'm not too fussed about the scanlines?)

Gawd, this is confusing.

Ghegs, I just took a look at your Cyber Lip footage, and blew the screen up x4 and I'd still be happy with that quality - it looks pretty nice even at the larger size (I reckon you should upload em a little bigger actually.)
I'm just loathed at the amount of time it takes to encode video into a web friendly format... that's really the only thing that's holding me back.
I've read your setup info and it's straightforward enough. I'm pretty sure Toast on my Mac would be pretty smart at re-encoding. Can I ask how long it takes from the time you finish your run and decide to burn it to DVD-RW to actually having an AVI after the encoding process is complete?
I'm sure you have it down to a fine are by now, but I'm just curious as to how laborious it is?

Thanks all once again, very helpful!

[Fudoh]

Why, does the scan converter basically do the same job as the XRGB2+?

basically yes, they all deinterlace and upscale the picture to 31khz+. It's just the method and quality that varies...

For the records I've got the Pioneer DVR-LX70D DVD/HDD recorder and it's very nice either. I know that earlier Panasonic would not record RGB on the Scart inputs (just video and S-Video), so this is basically the only thing you should really pay attention to.

[Skykid]

For the records I've got the Pioneer DVR-LX70D DVD/HDD recorder and it's very nice either.

Jesus Christ that thing's expensive.

It's hard to find too.

Hmm, I really wish there was a simpler solution to all this. Why can't some bright spark release a Mac compatible USB capture dongle that supports 240p through minimum 720p.

[robivy64]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-xCP3x4blc

Recorded using a Macbook.

[Ghegs]

Ghegs, I just took a look at your Cyber Lip footage, and blew the screen up x4 and I'd still be happy with that quality - it looks pretty nice even at the larger size (I reckon you should upload em a little bigger actually.)

The video does still look okay even when zoomed, but that's not the point here. Neo Geo games' native resolution is 320x224. Making the video 640x480 wouldn't bring out any new details, it'd just increase the filesize and introduce bits of blur, smoothing and artifacts depending on what resizer algorithm was used. Whoever's watching the video can easily use their video player's zoom function to achieve the same result for more comfortable viewing, just like you did.

Can I ask how long it takes from the time you finish your run and decide to burn it to DVD-RW to actually having an AVI after the encoding process is complete?
I'm sure you have it down to a fine are by now, but I'm just curious as to how laborious it is?

That all depends how long the recorded footage is, of course, but I'll try to answer as if we're talking about a 30 minute video.

My DVD recorder is set to record at the highest possible quality, which means burning the footage to a DVD-RW takes place in real-time. So 30 minutes of footage takes 30 minutes to burn. If you use the lower quality settings to record (and with older games it really doesn't matter much, if at all) it's only a few minutes. Ripping the DVD is pretty fast at around 8 minutes. Making an .AVI out of the .VOB takes a bit more, maybe 15-20 minutes or so. And then encoding the .MP4 out of it takes another 30-40 minutes.

So yeah, it all takes a bit of time. But it's not really laborious at all, once you have your preferred settings down you can just click a button or two and that's it.

[Skykid]

That's kind of what I figured, thanks Ghegs. I was eyeing up a few options last night - your particular recorder model is around £100 on fleabay (Fudoh's is nowhere to be seen, but it's a bit expensive for my needs)

But...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-xCP3x4blc

Recorded using a Macbook.

Woop! And you got up to 720p too? The image seems kind of dark, but then I remember Thunderforce's colour palette is like that.

Do tell dude, what setup did you use? I take it you ran it from a supergun or something so I'm guessing RGB scart?

Many thanks!

[Ed Oscuro]

There's no point in making a 640x480 video of a Famicom game when the game is natively 320x240* anyway.

If the uploader cares about having the video look as good as it can, they'll probably already have it prescaled. Not going to get into the pixel aspect ratio discussion but that's another legitimate reason to prescale the video (i.e. display it as it would normally be seen). There's not much reason in this day and age to be sending out 320x240 videos, bandwidth isn't usually that much of an issue. This applies a bit more to Youtube than to some 10-hour marathon gaming thing being uploaded to a personal server (which nobody is going to download / watch anyway) - but more pixels, appropriately prescaled, are still nicer. For myself I'd consider pointing my DSLR at a screen, that way it's not only prescaled but also scanline'd

[Ghegs]

Well, I generally try to follow SDA's guidelines when making my vids. But I just tried re-encoding my Cyber-Lip video at 640x480 and it does look very nice 'n sharp, so maybe I'll do this for future runs. Or even re-encode my already existing runs, I only have three videos at 320x240 that are made with the DVD recorder, those are the only ones with a source quality good enough that prescaling it would make sense. Gotta think about it some.

For myself I'd consider pointing my DSLR at a screen, that way it's not only prescaled but also scanline'd

What happened to the SweetSpot?

[Ed Oscuro]

What happened to the SweetSpot?

Nothing happened to it, it's just not a solution for every situation. Sometimes you want to actually point a camera at a screen.

[Skykid]

That's kind of what I figured, thanks Ghegs. I was eyeing up a few options last night - your particular recorder model is around £100 on fleabay (Fudoh's is nowhere to be seen, but it's a bit expensive for my needs)

But...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-xCP3x4blc

Recorded using a Macbook.

Woop! And you got up to 720p too? The image seems kind of dark, but then I remember Thunderforce's colour palette is like that.

Do tell dude, what setup did you use? I take it you ran it from a supergun or something so I'm guessing RGB scart?

Many thanks!

Help?

Please?

[Skykid]

Anyone?

robiyv64, please?