Vampire Rage - XBL Indie - 80 pts

[DJ Incompetent]

@tricktale

Drunken Gamers Radio is trying to get a hold of you for a podcast interview. Check your twitter. Yer game needs some coverage.

[TodayIsForgotten]

@TodayIsForgotten

Lemmie know if you knock out my score. Play Rage only. I dunno how well the leaderboards update because it says I'm #1. I'm pretty sure you can't let that happen.

You beat me yet in Retrofit Overload?

I got 1.86m in rage mode.

I think i put up 15m in retrofit. Now that i know how all the top dogs score I lost interest. Its sorta a lame way to play retrofit.

[Daigoro]

the Vampire Rape ever

[tricktale]

@tricktale

Drunken Gamers Radio is trying to get a hold of you for a podcast interview. Check your twitter. Yer game needs some coverage.

Thanks for the heads up .

[JusticeDude]

Great game, especially for 80pts!

I just wanted to agree with a couple other things that have been said:
-I use an arcade stick and the ability to re-map buttons would be great.
-The high-definition in-game art looks really great, but the character portraits and the game over screen look like they were drawn in a completely different medium, which is a bit jarring.
-A counter to show how many bullets you've reflected/how close you are to a bomb would be great. I didn't know about it initially and was surprised when it started happening.
-Please clean up the high scores!

And those purple rings are the stuff of nightmares o.O

I can't wait to check the game out again after the patch!

[Alec]

Just downloaded the Demo, not going to be buying the full version because...

1. No D-Pad Support
2. No Button Config
3. No Autofire button (not essential for a $1 purchase, but would make the game a lot more playable)

but a good first effort.

[Xonatron]

Just downloaded the Demo, not going to be buying the full version because...

1. No D-Pad Support
2. No Button Config
3. No Autofire button (not essential for a $1 purchase, but would make the game a lot more playable)

but a good first effort.

D-Pad should always be supported, but why did you need button config? Using an arcade stick?

The problem with making Xbox 360 games, I have found, is that the developers (Xona Games included) make Xbox 360 games... which means we make it for the Xbox 360 console and the 360 controller, not an arcade stick. It's a problem that a replacement controller does not properly emulate the standard controller of the system, if it did there would be fewer issues.

With us and our trigger controls, it's hard to find a suitable replacment even if we did offer button configuration, which we don't (as of yet) offer.

Sorry for derailing the thread a bit.

[emphatic]

Just downloaded the Demo, not going to be buying the full version because...

1. No D-Pad Support
2. No Button Config
3. No Autofire button (not essential for a $1 purchase, but would make the game a lot more playable)

but a good first effort.

The upcoming patch adds d-pad support.

[Matsunaga]

Just downloaded the Demo, not going to be buying the full version because...

1. No D-Pad Support
2. No Button Config
3. No Autofire button (not essential for a $1 purchase, but would make the game a lot more playable)

but a good first effort.

D-Pad should always be supported, but why did you need button config? Using an arcade stick?

The problem with making Xbox 360 games, I have found, is that the developers (Xona Games included) make Xbox 360 games... which means we make it for the Xbox 360 console and the 360 controller, not an arcade stick. It's a problem that a replacement controller does not properly emulate the standard controller of the system, if it did there would be fewer issues.

With us and our trigger controls, it's hard to find a suitable replacment even if we did offer button configuration, which we don't (as of yet) offer.



Sorry for derailing the thread a bit.

Just wondering, why would you not offer a button config? It couldn't be all that difficult. Every shooter that has come out on the 360 has one.

[system11]

Just wondering, why would you not offer a button config? It couldn't be all that difficult. Every shooter that has come out on the 360 has one.

Controls you can't reconfigure are my pet hate of this generation, from full priced to 'arcade' to indie. This is technology we had back in the days of the ZX Spectrum for fuck sake.

[Xonatron]

Just wondering, why would you not offer a button config? It couldn't be all that difficult. Every shooter that has come out on the 360 has one.

Controls you can't reconfigure are my pet hate of this generation, from full priced to 'arcade' to indie. This is technology we had back in the days of the ZX Spectrum for fuck sake.

It's actually a pain in the ass.

But, that's no excuse, right?

How else would you want to configure our controls? All our buttons fire, so that's that. All our directional pads move, so that's that. And the triggers/bumpers do the spread/laser swap, and make absolutely no sense to be anywhere else. In Duality ZF this is, there is no reason to offer it, therefore why bother?

The only reason we would want to do it in this game is to support 360 controllers that lack the triggers, or lack the secondary thumbstick... which brings me back to my point that all controllers should just support the console they are on. And the triggers are not buttons, so how do you remap them to buttons? All of this is just... well... a pain in the ass to deal with.

That said, it's my pet peeve, too, but only when the controls are setup so badly to begin with.

I'm still not sure what to do about arcade sticks that will not even support our dual play (and multidirectional) modes, which is 3 of the 4 modes we offer... how can we only half support them (the arcade sticks)? Why bother to support them at all? It would eliminate a lot of potential confusion to not support them, rather to support them in only one of our control modes.

I hope this begins to showcase the problems with all of this. :S

[StarCreator]

I hope this begins to showcase the problems with all of this. :S

All that post showcases is that you don't care about offering options to your customers. The way you talk about your controls, there are some limits on what could be customized, but there's still room to change things around. What if people don't need every button to fire, and they'd rather use the face buttons to switch weapons? Just because you can't fathom why people would set up their controls differently, doesn't mean you should outright throw out the possibility of even giving the option, assuming it's something the players want. I can't help but take complete offense at that stance, and it's a stance I would in no way support with my hard-earned cash.

Also, Vampire Rage isn't your game. Why are you talking about the control scheme of YOUR game?

[Kyle]

Also, Vampire Rage isn't your game. Why are you talking about the control scheme of YOUR game?

He chimed in because he's an indie developer. I don't think he was trying to hijack the thread.

And to Matthew, this thread should prove that disregarding arcade stick users will amount to lost sales. My purchase is pending d-pad support.

[StarCreator]

He chimed in because he's an indie developer. I don't think he was trying to hijack the thread.

He only vaguely hints about configurable controls being a "pain in the ass", but says nothing to back it up. His entire post only tries to justify his stance on a purely design standpoint, which means nothing when applied to a game that obviously plays nothing like his. If he had elaborated on the technical aspect, which he treats as nothing more than a throwaway line, he might have had something relevant to add.

[Matsunaga]

I would worry less about "why" someone would want to change the buttons around, and just give the option to do it. It would make everyone happy, obviously.

[Xonatron]

The reason button mapping is not done is (some) games, is because it is a pain in the ass. That's just truth, but I need to explain it further. It's not a shot against gamers, and certainly not a shot against any fans of my games or shmups. I'm posting here as an indie game dev, a shmup fan, and just a knowledgeable person in general... no need to take offense to a truth I am offering.

StarCreator, I never meant to hijack this thread. If you read back, you'll see it was unintentional, and I believe I even mentioned I didn't mean to in my first post.

I think explained perfectly from a dev's point of view why Duality ZF does not have reconfigurable buttons. I used my game as an example because 1) it's an example of why other games may not do the same, and 2) it's my game so it's direct from the source information for you guys to absorb. Just appreciate it for what it is, and nothing more, I don't mean to start a war.

Perhaps SC doesn't really know Duality ZF well, so I'll explain our trigger controls are not weapon switching, they are speed-varying weapon morphing controls, which cannot be done (the same way) on buttons. (EDIT: Buttons are digital on/off and the triggers are analog.) This is why it makes it not a one-to-one mapping issue. This is why it's more complicated than a "choose your buttons" system. All of this is tech stuff I can get into, but I thought I got into it enough as it was.

Solutions exist. Not saying they don't.

Point learned: We devs cannot educate gamers on our trials and tribulations, they just come off as excuses... even insulting excuses at that. Ouch. Gamers always win. Developers are the ones who ultimately lose.

P.S. I'm open-minded SC, which is why I am here in these discussions to begin with!

[Xonatron]

You know what... I think I started all of this. I'll take responsiblity for derailing this thread. Apologies to all. It was certainly off topic with regards to the game in question (Vampire Rage). The problems we have with DZF do not apply here at all.

[StarCreator]

Okay, backing up here a bit.

How much of what you're saying actually applies to Vampire Rage, this being the Vampire Rage thread? The entirety of your posts have been you defending design decisions of your own game, and I'm still failing to see what any of it has to do with Vampire Rage itself, considering the two games obviously have different design sensibilities.

The only bit I can make out that would have relevance is if there was some technical reason it would be difficult for an Indie Game to offer a button configuration option. Are Indie Games not able to save configuration data? Is CPU time at such a premium that it's impractical to have an interpreting layer to map button inputs to player actions dynamically? Or are your objections to button configuration purely based on a design standpoint? That's all I'm trying to understand at this point.

I think what initially set me off was that I don't know what your reason for posting in this thread was exactly, and it came off as you stating no game should offer button configuration, ever. If that wasn't your intent, I apologize.

[alastair jack]

I think customizable controls are very important part of a game, it's definitely something to take more seriously - especially when you're making an arcade style game that doesn't work with a joystick.

[TodayIsForgotten]

Okay, backing up here a bit.

How much of what you're saying actually applies to Vampire Rage, this being the Vampire Rage thread? The entirety of your posts have been you defending design decisions of your own game, and I'm still failing to see what any of it has to do with Vampire Rage itself, considering the two games obviously have different design sensibilities.

The only bit I can make out that would have relevance is if there was some technical reason it would be difficult for an Indie Game to offer a button configuration option. Are Indie Games not able to save configuration data? Is CPU time at such a premium that it's impractical to have an interpreting layer to map button inputs to player actions dynamically? Or are your objections to button configuration purely based on a design standpoint? That's all I'm trying to understand at this point.

I think what initially set me off was that I don't know what your reason for posting in this thread was exactly, and it came off as you stating no game should offer button configuration, ever. If that wasn't your intent, I apologize.

I thought the same thing upon reading it, but after looking back at what he said. His original thought was how third-party sticks do not map over perfectly with the 360 controller and that is primarily what they are designing their game after. He then goes on to say with his game and games of a different control system than a traditional/bullet style shooter is when button mapping becomes a pain in the ass. Then he got a bit defensive and thats what some hell broke loose.

Back on topic, though, are the leader boards flowing nicer now? I know i played the game a few times when others were and i still see just my name on the live boards.

[emphatic]

a) No d-pad support = I will NEVER buy your game
b) If you feel that true customizing of buttons is a PITA, just give two alternative layouts to choose from = 1, 360 pad, 2, Arcade stick (make sure not to use the shoulder buttons for this layout AT ALL

Also, I just HATE analogue controls in all games except when I'm playing an FPS which is never. If you create an Arcade style shmup, abide the rules = digital controls.

[Xonatron]

I'll explain myself from memory...

I was replying to a generalized comment, a comment not directed at Vampire Rage in how I read it, which is what originally took the thread off topic. The comment was something along the lines of not liking games without customizable controls. I think I was making a generalized defensive response saying it's not always evil when a game doesn't have customization, as in our game, which I explained why.

I can understand the confusion.

None of this has to do with the game at hand, so I apologize for defending something that really didn't need to be defended in this thread.

And to answer StarCreator's concerns, I was defending a design decision, it has nothing to do with any sort of inability to code customizable controls in indie games. It is normally "easy" to do this.

None of this applies to Vampire Rage. It is off topic. Apologies...

[Alec]

D-Pad should always be supported, but why did you need button config? Using an arcade stick?

Yes. I have 3 Xbox 360 arcade sticks, all of which I've set up the buttons differently. I also have that all digital Street Fighter pad, which I never use, which is also configured differently from the standard 360 pad. All of these I've bought or built specifically for 2D gaming, shmups, fighters, platforms and puzzles. Actually I bought the whole console for those games.

I'm not saying button config is the deciding factor when it comes to purchasing. I'm willing to rewire for R-Type. For a game with art as ugly as this though, its going to take more than a post release d-pad patch.

You're the guy doing Duality ZF? I've been looking forward to playing that for a while. Looks like it has potential to be one of the better indie games. Having no arcade support though means I'll be playing the demo before I decide to buy or pass as I get bored with playing scrolling games of the 360 pad pretty quickly. What I've seen of it so far looks good, just starting to think maybe its not for me.

[Ghegs]

<derail of a derail>

I also have that all digital Street Fighter pad, which I never use, which is also configured differently from the standard 360 pad.

You mean the Street Fighter IV FightPad by MadCatz? There's a small 3-way switch on the back that changes what the d-pad works as, between the d-pad, left analog stick and right analog stick.

</derail of a derail>

[Alec]

Never knew that, as I posted, I almost never use it. Thanks

[Xonatron]

Thanks, Alec, for all the feedback. I am a part of the Duality ZF team. Dual play, a key feature in our game, cannot be played with an arcade stick. With two arcade sticks? Yes. But therein lies the complexities of remapping that we have chosen to avoid. Also, we'd rather two players didn't cheat a one player dual play score this way.

I hope the derailing of this thread has at least raised extra awareness of Vampire Rage!

[MDY]

FYI - one of the Vampire Rage team posted this yesterday elsewhere:

The patch for Vampire Rage is finished and will be uploaded for review tomorrow.

Here's the list of changed for the first patch:

* Only one entry per Gamertag will be entered into the Live Highscores board
* Joystick / D-Pad support
* New bomb positioning system for both Joystick and Control Pad
* Mapped Fire, Sword and Slow to extra buttons
* Increased starting lives for Normal difficulty to five
* Decreased difficulty of first stage / boss
* Added ability to skip stages to Pause screen
* Disabled highscore sharing during gameplay (caused the game to hang)
* Added Info screen for patch notes

We also changed the boxart:

[tricktale]

Thanks for posting the patch info MDY

We've also changed the blood collection graphic to make it much less intrusive.

We're going to keep updating the game, so if there is something missing from the first patch it will probably be in the second.
Thanks for all of the support and feedback for improvements. It's very much appreciated.

I hope the derailing of this thread has at least raised extra awareness of Vampire Rage!

Thanks, Matt . It's all relevant so I don't think it was derailed too much.

Toby.

[Slump]

We've also changed the blood collection graphic to make it much less intrusive.

Thanks for this! It was one of the few issues I have with the game. Also, great effort with this release! It's always refreshing to see indie devs release a well made product and follow up with support/patching before moving on to the next project. I look forward to your future releases tricktale!

[Observer]

If and when the PC port comes, the ability to customise keys (keyboard/USB pad) will be absolutely welcomed, if not a must. Achievements would be welcomed too I guess, although I think I already mentioned this along with the inclusion of an Extra Stage for greater glory and madness.

Looking good so far! I'm liking the new box art! (it really screams "TAKE THAT!")