Got an XBOX 360 yesterday!!...

[evil_ash_xero]

You must get Vesperia, easily the best game in the series in terms of polish. I really enjoyed Eternal Sonata as I had a friend to coop through the game, but its encore mode is a nice challenge.

I'm also hearing good things about Resonance of Fate.

Thing with Resonance according to a friend is that the game is fun as hell first half then comes screaming into a wall and is just tedious after that point.

I played through the game. Don't know what this "wall" is. Maybe where you have to grind a lot. I thought it was pretty consistent. I just thought the story was weak. It's a lot of fun though.

[Shuurin]

My friend loves rpgs, but hates grind. The grind could have just pissed away all his pleasure. So take what I said about Resonance of Fate with a grain of salt.

[evil_ash_xero]

Got an XBOX 360 yesterday!!... and it died today!


had to say it.

[E. Randy Dupre]

I'd say at least with the star ocean series the story sucks in all of them. Of all of them I thought 3 had the best twist at least. Gameplay wise, 4 takes everything awesome about 3 and throws it out the window, in the 360 version you can't even willfully target your opponents, the AI is horrendous, and all enemies gain super armor if you try to combo them. Most bosses require a quirky weakness abuse (sounds great on paper but poorly executed due to the toned down gameplay). If you hate Star Ocean 3's combat, well 4's is probably 20x worse.

You can manually target enemies, after a fashion. It's been a long time since I played the game, but I remember that much about it - it initially appears as though you're stuck with attacking whichever enemy the game has decided to make your target, but it is possible to switch this to one of your choosing. I'd have to fire it up again to remember how, though, and I doubt the PAL version I've got is going to work on my remaining NTSC-J machine.

As much as the story was awful - although that was more down to the script and acting than the plot itself - I thought the game outside of the narrative was loads of fun. It's only the second current gen JRPG (that I've played so far - I've not yet had the chance to start Resonance of Fate) that I've managed to play from start to finish without getting bored with - the time absolutely flew by.

[CStarFlare]

You can switch targeting by getting close to whatever you want to target. This usually isn't too risky, fortunately.

But I agree with Dupre; I thought it was pretty enjoyable, but I loved SO3 as well. If nothing else it's a fantastic game if you're an achievement whore who wants to spend five hundred hours getting 100%

[Elixir]

It took me around 120 hours to get everything done in Resonance, so it's not too much of a grind. The "wall" is probably Chapter 13 (infiltrating the fortress, with the soldiers everywhere), but I'm glad that the game doesn't let you breeze through it. The game's story makes absolutely no sense, but that's what you get for playing a game by tri-Ace.

Tales of Vesperia was so good that I beat it in 2008, then again earlier this year in Japanese. I think the game's the best in the Tales series and I'd highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys a good jRPG. Plot's not too long, and the game is roughly 50-60 hours for the main story. Getting everything is difficult and absolutely will require a guide, but apart from that, I don't have any complaints.

These are the two RPGs which really stand out, and although they're on the PS3 (Vesperia being superior on the PS3, but not available in English (yet?)) they're worth buying. Unfortunately there's also a lot of mediocre games that you have to look out for, such as:

Magnacarta 2
The Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery
Star Ocean 4
Blue Dragon

Just avoid those. I've heard good things about Nier, has anyone here played it? It's that action RPG which has bullet patterns.

[Rob]

It took me around 120 hours to get everything done in Resonance,

Good god, man. No way it's worth going back to those early arena ranks for another 7 rounds apiece.

[Elixir]

It took me around 120 hours to get everything done in Resonance,

Good god, man. No way it's worth going back to those early arena ranks for another 7 rounds apiece.

It's not, but then again, it's a complete breeze once you try doing it post-game. The Arena was possibly my least liked part of the game though, considering the final Arena boss was a total joke and there's no real reward for clearing the entire arena (unless you count the achievement). It would have been nice if they made a costume as a reward instead.

Neverland was fun, but way too easy as well. You can pretty much breeze through everything before you're even 200.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Unfortunately there's also a lot of mediocre games that you have to look out for, such as:

Magnacarta 2
The Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery
Star Ocean 4
Blue Dragon

Just avoid those. I've heard good things about Nier, has anyone here played it? It's that action RPG which has bullet patterns.

Magnacarta 2 is mediocre, it's true, but I still found myself playing it all the way through. I can't remember a single thing about it now, though, other than that the battle system was interestingly different and the attempt to bring MMORPG gameplay across to a single player RPG was more successful than in Infinite Undiscovery. Which wouldn't be hard. I wouldn't say that it's a game that has to be avoided, just one that you need the patience of a saint and low expectations to get anything from.

Last Remnant's battle system again tries to do something interesting, but ends up being a complete mess as it fails to present essential information in a clear way. Again, though, I'd say it's worth trying if you like the genre and want to see developers attempting to advance it. Clumsily.

Infinite Undiscovery was shit, I agree. Again, though, it's not entirely without merit - the MMORPG-style crafting adds a completionist element that can appeal. But then, *any* game that has something like that can prove addictive, so that's not saying much. Also, it's got what is probably the worst opening hour or two of any JRPG ever.

Star Ocean 4 we've covered above.

Blue Dragon, I *really* enjoyed. It's bright and upbeat, the gameplay is old-school without being dull and the final disc goes all kinds of apeshit mental. I don't understand why it generates the hate it does.

Tales of Vesperia is pretty much essential - my favourite RPG this generation. I'd give up on waiting for the PS3 version to get localised, because Namco Bandai seem to get a weird sadistic kick out of refusing to bring Tales games over to the west.

[sjewkestheloon]

@dave

The Club is a great game! Hard as hell though, for me at least. It should definately appeal to the shmupper in all of us as finding a good line through the levels while keeping the combo counter going, finding the hidden targets, etc is quite compulsive.

I've not put anywhere near enough time into this one yet as I ended up getting distracted with an RPG (story of my life) and haven't put it in again since.

How are you getting on in Mass Effect? I'm just working on a speed run on Insanity difficulty which is great fun and annoying as hell in equal parts. I've got to the 4th story planet post citadel in just over 3 hours and I think I can improve on that a lot.

[dave4shmups]

@dave

The Club is a great game! Hard as hell though, for me at least. It should definately appeal to the shmupper in all of us as finding a good line through the levels while keeping the combo counter going, finding the hidden targets, etc is quite compulsive.

I've not put anywhere near enough time into this one yet as I ended up getting distracted with an RPG (story of my life) and haven't put it in again since.

How are you getting on in Mass Effect? I'm just working on a speed run on Insanity difficulty which is great fun and annoying as hell in equal parts. I've got to the 4th story planet post citadel in just over 3 hours and I think I can improve on that a lot.

I still have Mass Effect, but I'm thinking about buying a guidebook for it before moving on in the game. So far, it doesn't seem as wide open as the first Knights of the Old Republic, so maybe I don't need a guide. I had heard complaints about the combat, but it feels great to me. As does the d-pad on the XBOX 360 controller. One of my favorite games on the system is Pac-Man: Championship Edition, and obviously you have to be able to turn corners tightly in a game like that (which is why people complain about playing Pac-Man on the Atari 5200), and I've had no problems whatsoever. I just got the Raiden Fighters collection today, and I LOVE it, and I find the d-pad to be perfectly responsive and comfortable.

As far as FPS games go, I just have F.E.A.R. right now, but it's awesome! The atmosphere in the game reminds me somewhat of the Max Payne series, which is a good thing, as does the ability to use bullet-time to shoot enemies.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Considering that this is the milestone 6,000th post for ol' PCE-FX! here, I'm going to add my two cents regarding the Atari 5200 version of Pac-Man. Why would Atari Corp. release a non-self centering joystick with it's huge 5200 SuperSystem console is plain nuts to play the eventual 5200 pack-in game of Pac-Man that Atari did include in future 5200 console bundled sets for mass consumption. (You might recall that it was the pack-in game of 5200 Super Breakout that came shipped with the intial debut release of the 5200 rather than Pac-Man.) Of course, the 5200 is based on the earlier released Atari 400 computer sans keyboard setup. There does exist a prototype "self-centering" 5200 jpystick controller that Atari was planning to release but never did since the "Great Video Game Crash of 1983-1984" fiasco happened. Even a prototype 5200 Laserdisc interface unit was cranked out in the Atari R&D labs back in the early 1980s.

A proper XBox 360 arcade stick works wonders for your 360 shmupping needs, dave4shmups. You'll definitely gain the upper hand/adavantage with one.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[dave4shmups]

Unfortunately there's also a lot of mediocre games that you have to look out for, such as:

Magnacarta 2
The Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery
Star Ocean 4
Blue Dragon

Just avoid those. I've heard good things about Nier, has anyone here played it? It's that action RPG which has bullet patterns.

Magnacarta 2 is mediocre, it's true, but I still found myself playing it all the way through. I can't remember a single thing about it now, though, other than that the battle system was interestingly different and the attempt to bring MMORPG gameplay across to a single player RPG was more successful than in Infinite Undiscovery. Which wouldn't be hard. I wouldn't say that it's a game that has to be avoided, just one that you need the patience of a saint and low expectations to get anything from.

Last Remnant's battle system again tries to do something interesting, but ends up being a complete mess as it fails to present essential information in a clear way. Again, though, I'd say it's worth trying if you like the genre and want to see developers attempting to advance it. Clumsily.

Infinite Undiscovery was shit, I agree. Again, though, it's not entirely without merit - the MMORPG-style crafting adds a completionist element that can appeal. But then, *any* game that has something like that can prove addictive, so that's not saying much. Also, it's got what is probably the worst opening hour or two of any JRPG ever.

Star Ocean 4 we've covered above.

Blue Dragon, I *really* enjoyed. It's bright and upbeat, the gameplay is old-school without being dull and the final disc goes all kinds of apeshit mental. I don't understand why it generates the hate it does.

Tales of Vesperia is pretty much essential - my favourite RPG this generation. I'd give up on waiting for the PS3 version to get localised, because Namco Bandai seem to get a weird sadistic kick out of refusing to bring Tales games over to the west.

What do you mean about the final disc in Blue Dragon? Does the game just get a lot harder at that point?

[BulletMagnet]

What do you mean about the final disc in Blue Dragon? Does the game just get a lot harder at that point?

The game's not very difficult at any point on the default settings, though you can crank it up if you like (including a free "very hard" free DLC add-on) - if memory serves, the only times I ever "died" during my play-through were when I screwed up some of the QTE's (which weren't hard in themselves either, I'm just awful at those, heh).

Off to the side, I'd recommend playing through Magna Carta 2 once if you can find it cheap - it's not the best game ever, but it did a few cool things (though I wish it had done more).

[dave4shmups]

What do you mean about the final disc in Blue Dragon? Does the game just get a lot harder at that point?

The game's not very difficult at any point on the default settings, though you can crank it up if you like (including a free "very hard" free DLC add-on) - if memory serves, the only times I ever "died" during my play-through were when I screwed up some of the QTE's (which weren't hard in themselves either, I'm just awful at those, heh).

Off to the side, I'd recommend playing through Magna Carta 2 once if you can find it cheap - it's not the best game ever, but it did a few cool things (though I wish it had done more).

Ok, thanks for the advice! What about Sacred 2: Fallen Angel? That looks like a really fun game in the same vein as Champions of Norrath on the PS2. And I loved that game!!

[Elixir]

Blue Dragon, I *really* enjoyed. It's bright and upbeat, the gameplay is old-school without being dull and the final disc goes all kinds of apeshit mental. I don't understand why it generates the hate it does.

Running along a wall, mashing A to obtain Gold really annoyed me, especially considering how there wasn't any sign of it being there otherwise.

Also terrible Japanese voice acting.

Also terrible boss theme oh my god that thing was so bad why whyyyyyyyyy.

It just really looked awful, and you could tell that Mistwalker were developing on an older 360 kit. Eternal Sonata came out months before and it looked amazing (as to what Ni no Kuni looks to us now) in comparison to this, which didn't look half as good.

Actually I like Mistwalker's practice of releasing Asian versions in English with Korean/Chinese/Japanese voices, but so far that consists of Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. What happened to CRY-ON and the other stuff they had planned?

[BulletMagnet]

Running along a wall, mashing A to obtain Gold really annoyed me, especially considering how there wasn't any sign of it being there otherwise.

Yeah, Blue Dragon will drive you nuts if you're the OCD type...there's little bits of invisible collectable crap EVERYwhere. Moreover, even the spots where you find nothing are eventually worth something, encouraging you to be even more OCD.

Also terrible boss theme oh my god that thing was so bad why whyyyyyyyyy.

It caught me off guard too at first, but after awhile I honestly kind of got into it...it's so incredibly cheesy and out of place that I'd start headbanging to it whenever a boss battle started. Guess that's just my sense of humor though.

What happened to CRY-ON and the other stuff they had planned?

You probably already heard, but Cry-On was canceled some time ago.

[professor ganson]

Also terrible boss theme oh my god that thing was so bad why whyyyyyyyyy.

It caught me off guard too at first, but after awhile I honestly kind of got into it...it's so incredibly cheesy and out of place that I'd start headbanging to it whenever a boss battle started. Guess that's just my sense of humor though.

It took me a while to warm up to that one, but now in my memory it's one of the highlights of the game.

[sjewkestheloon]

THIS IS THE BEGINNING, HERE'S HOW ALL THIS STARTED!

The Blue Dragon boss theme is fucking brilliant.

Re. Sacred 2.

Be warned. I lost months of my life to that game. The map is huge, there are countless bosses and loads of little nooks and crannies to explore.

It is also seriously bug ridden. There are skills that simply don't work, quirks that will annoy the hell out of you, and a bloody bard that sings at you every time you go into a town.

The game also make no effort to explain itself and you will need to either do some reading around the subject or get someone familiar with it to give you some help.

I stupidly got rid of it a while back but I'm looking to pick it up again. If I do manage to get hold of it again and you end up getting it too, send me an invite and I'll sort you out with some starting loot and give you some pointers. I also sent someone a message a while back with a few builds and some pointers, so let me know if you want me to forward it to you.

[E. Randy Dupre]

The boss theme in BD doesn't really leave you any choice, though - you either get used to it or you abandon the game, given that it's the same tune every single time.

What I meant about th last disc is that the story suddenly goes bonkers and builds up to a massive (and, to be honest, entirely unexpected, given that the pace of the rest of the game is pretty pedestrian) climax. It just came as a hug surprise to me, how much the whole thing went suddenly epic. Actually, that might be one of the main reasons why I remember it so fondly, although it remains one of the very few 360 JRPGs I've managed to see through to the end - most of the others, I've given up on out of boredom. I particularly liked the skills/character development side of it, iirc.

The only real problem with the game technically is loads of slowdown whenever one of your shadows does anything in battle. Which is a lot o the time. It's not really a big deal, though.

[dave4shmups]

OK, what about Quake 4? There is slowdown in that game, BUT it's only $4.99 at GameStop. Also, are the Gears of War games worth getting considering that I'd be playing them alone?? I've read that co-op and online are really the meat of the games, but I also love 3rd-person shooters.

[Cuilan]

I found Blue Dragon's story boring and the art style bland (for the most part), I also disliked the characters. The music was forgettable (except for the boss theme, which is unforgettably awful). Having useless items hidden everywhere bothered me for a while, but I eventually taught myself to simply ignore everything that wasn't a treasure chest.

[sjewkestheloon]

OK, what about Quake 4? There is slowdown in that game, BUT it's only $4.99 at GameStop. Also, are the Gears of War games worth getting considering that I'd be playing them alone?? I've read that co-op and online are really the meat of the games, but I also love 3rd-person shooters.

I thought Quake 4 was a bit crappy and Doom 3 esque but it does come with Quake 2 as a bonus.

Gears of War is a good one in my opinion but better in co-op. Split screen works just as well as xbox live so don't let that put you off if you have a willing partner.

[dave4shmups]

OK, what about Quake 4? There is slowdown in that game, BUT it's only $4.99 at GameStop. Also, are the Gears of War games worth getting considering that I'd be playing them alone?? I've read that co-op and online are really the meat of the games, but I also love 3rd-person shooters.

I thought Quake 4 was a bit crappy and Doom 3 esque but it does come with Quake 2 as a bonus.

Gears of War is a good one in my opinion but better in co-op. Split screen works just as well as xbox live so don't let that put you off if you have a willing partner.

Ah, I forgot that it came with Quake 2 as a bonus-is that game graphically enhanced at all?? I don't have anyone to play Gears with, which is why I'm wondering if it's still worth getting. I haven't read or heard of any complaints about your AI partner.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Quake 2 looks like Quake 2 in high def, basically. I don't recall there beeing any changes to the textures and there certainly wasn't anything done to the poly count. It still looks perectly acceptable, though.

Quake 4 is quite poor. The 2D bitmap-ness of various backdrops is blatant, the frame rate is terrible and loading takes far too long. Gameplay is generic and dull, too, with a twist in the plot that has no bearing whatsoever on how you approach things. Multiplayer should have been amazing - the map design was great - but the frame rate totally killed it. Not that anybody'll be playing it now for that to matter.

Gears is, on the whole, fine in single player. That's how I've gone through both games. AI teammates are useless when you need a revive, though, so you get many more frustrating deaths in single than in co-op.

[dave4shmups]

Are the graphics in Quake 4 at the same level as Doom 3 on the original XBOX? If so, that's good enough for me.

[neorichieb1971]

Forgive my interuption.

Are there any lonesome exclusives on the 360? The kind of thing that has a great 1p mode, exploration, puzzle elements etc. I'm a big fan of the Prince of persia games, God of War, Rez, Ico, SoTC etc etc. I find that those types of games are almost entirely on the PS3 and that the 360 has no exclusives worthy of mention. I saw a video of "Limbo" recently which kind of got my attention since its dark, gloomy and has a rather unique feel to it. But I find myself not really wanting to spend all that money on a system for one game.

I have 2 PS3's already, so if its on the PS3 I won't be that interested in it on the 360. This is about the time where the PS3 will likely see dividends as the sequels start hitting hard and fast. I consider the 360 the system for shooter maniacs (2D and 3D) that doesn't really offer much in the way of anything else.

And Dcharlie, I know your lurking .

I might buy a 360 for limbo.. Surprised nobody talks about it.

[dave4shmups]

And while we're at it, are there any rail shooters on the 360, aside from Rez HD??

[evil_ash_xero]

Forgive my interuption.

Are there any lonesome exclusives on the 360? The kind of thing that has a great 1p mode, exploration, puzzle elements etc. I'm a big fan of the Prince of persia games, God of War, Rez, Ico, SoTC etc etc. I find that those types of games are almost entirely on the PS3 and that the 360 has no exclusives worthy of mention. I saw a video of "Limbo" recently which kind of got my attention since its dark, gloomy and has a rather unique feel to it. But I find myself not really wanting to spend all that money on a system for one game.

I have 2 PS3's already, so if its on the PS3 I won't be that interested in it on the 360. This is about the time where the PS3 will likely see dividends as the sequels start hitting hard and fast. I consider the 360 the system for shooter maniacs (2D and 3D) that doesn't really offer much in the way of anything else.

And Dcharlie, I know your lurking .

I might buy a 360 for limbo.. Surprised nobody talks about it.

It seems most stuff is multi platform. They have their Gears and whatevers.. It's worth it for the shmups though.

[E. Randy Dupre]

Exploration/adventure-based exclusives that are worth getting? I'd definitely recommend Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts, which has crappy presentation, hiding an astonishingly open, freeform and entertaining game underneath. Quite honestly one of the best, most imaginative games this generation.

Other than that, though, I'm a bit stuck. Most are multiplatform, it's just that I've gone with the 360 version for them because that was the lead platform and, as a result, the PS3 ports were inferior. That seems to be changing now, though. Bayonetta notwithstanding.