Failed early 3d system appreciation thread! (32x, Jag, etc)

[louisg]

I finally got around to getting some games for my 32x, and I am stoked! There is something very charming about these failed 3d systems with their chunky graphics and minuscule library of games. It's interesting that for a couple hundred bucks, you could get an add-on (or system) that would let you play roughly 486-quality games on a console. Though the graphics seem very crude and the systems underpowered now, keep in mind that PCs then were over $1000 for something that'd crank out comparable graphics (and even then would be at a disadvantage in some ways). All of this makes me wonder what the 32-bit generation would have been like if these less capable systems had caught on.

As an aside, one thing that I find notable is that during the early 90s, most 3d polygon games were flight or car simulators. Not many were fast action games, excepting raycast-style games like Doom. For that reason, I remember games like Virtua Fighter or StarFox which do use polygons in a slicker way and in a more action-oriented environment seeming very fresh at the time.

So, does anyone here have any favorite games from these systems that completely tanked? Any hidden gems?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

One cool hidden gem on the short-lived 64-bit powered Atari Jaguar console was a little seen or heard of shmuppy title by the name of Zero-5 from U.S. based game publisher Telegames based out of Texas. If you were to view the developer credits for Z-5, you'll see that it was coded in the UK with official support from Atari UK division. Apparently, Telegames bought the exclusive rights to the Z-5 game title to have it published and distributed themselves. It was released in limited quanities and was only available from Telegames by mail-order method (since official Atari Jaguar game distribution/support from Atari Corp. ceased to exist after being sold to PC HDD manufacturer, JTS Corp. in late 1994). So, it's considered a rare Atari Jag game in it's own right with limited distribution anyways.

Z-5 features some different gaming engines for the various stages (akin to that like of the PSX shmup game of Philosoma with it's various different viewpoints) with 1st-person viewpoint, 3rd-person viewpoint, 3-D polygonal shooting stages, etc. The framerate seems to be around 50-60fps -- it does slowdown a bit during certain portions of the 3-D polygonal shooting stages but then speeds up again.

Z-5 has some cool techno BGM tunes to chill to which does match the frantic and hectic shooting that the casual Z-5 player is bound to encounter. It's recommended to use an Jaguar controller or joystick controller modded with auto-fire to clear some of the more challenging stages later on when auto-fire comes in handy to save your ass (either that or just press the fire button like mad should do the trick). High scores & high score intials are saved directly to the Z-5 cartridge's flash memory for posterity which is a plus in my book.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ganelon]

The 32X still has 2D games like Knuckles' Chaotix that have amazing animation. Nobody understood why the 32X was ever released; Sega apparently thought it could extend the life of the Genesis but they should've seen from the Sega CD that the west isn't interested in upgrades.

As for why there were very few polygon-based action games, they likely required too much memory to handle (think about how many objects have to be rendered). It's much easier to account for polygons when when you're on rails or when there's a fixed amount on-screen at all times.

Do I like any polygonal games from that time period? Yeah, I'm a huge fan of Virtua Racing Deluxe on 32X. It's probably still my favorite version (even with the SS and PS2 versions around). I was always hyped about Checkered Flag but when I finally got a Jaguar and that game, I was so disappointed on how much worse that game was in comparison.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Only if Atari Corp had ramped up the framerate to a respectable one on it's Jaguar version of Checkered Flag, would it be much better than it's current messy choppy framerate plagued condition. I really enjoyed playing linked-up gaming sessions of the original Atari Lynx game, Checkered Flag.

There is the 3-D polygonal racing game of "World Tour Racing" for the Atari Jag that was published and distributed by Telegames to consider as well. The framerate is a bit better in that one considering that it's an Jaguar CD based racing game anyways. The developer, Teague, was responsible for coding it.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

It might be one of the biggest busts ever, but the Apple Bandai Pippin console should at least be acknowledged for being ambitious. The thing had a 4X CD-ROM, 14.4kbps modem, S-Video output, and the controller had a freaking trackball. One of its peripherals even added tablet, keyboard and display capabilities in case you wanted to lug your Pippin around. Back in '95, my boss' portable PC was a desktop PC in a suitcase, so you could say the Pippin was very portable and packed quite a punch. Unfortunately for Apple, their idea of fun games was a bunch of poorly made edutainment titles, and they were charging a whopping $600 dollars for it. Back in '95!!!. Compare that to the price of the PS1, N64, and Jaguar, which were priced $300, $200, and $250 on release. The Pippin was such a failure that it was a distant 4th place to the Jaguar, and we all know how successful the Jaguar was.

[KBZ]

I'm often on the brink of hauling out the 32x just for the amazing port of Space Harrier

[neorichieb1971]

My only entry into this little world was 3DO. I bought one on PAL day release.

I enjoyed Road Rash, Shock wave, Fifa, that get the flag game and Total Eclipse. It started the Need for Speed franchise. Strangely attempts by SNK and Capcom to make the fighting classics Samurai shodown and Street fighter 2 X were made. However the 3 button controller didn't pull off the right feel and AFAIK there was never a 3rd party controller.

By the time any momentum and reasonable price drops occurred the competition was hot on its heels. Playstation released in Japan only 4 months after the PAL 3DO and although it was almost a year before the PSX hit Europe the PSX sent shockwaves around the Earth. For the wealthy, the 3DO was an acceptable gap filler. It had its moment. PAL 3DO's suffered from the usual borders and 50hz slowdown.

An MPEG1 expansion cartridge could be put in the expansion slot allowing the 3DO to playback whitebook CD's. This kept the 3DO on par with Philips CDi system which could play whitebook movies. Overall 3DO was the most ambitious project at the time. It was just over priced and its release was timed wrong.

The 3DO company went on to develop its successor to beat the PS1 called the M2. It was scrapped late on. There are only one or two pieces of software that made it out of the gates for that system in its arcade format. Polystars was one the games. Back in the day a Japanese company made D2, a horror survival game. Eventually it turned up on Dreamcast and looked superior to the DC version in screenshots.

The 3DO released alongside Jaguar. Within a year it had Saturn, PS1 and the Neo Geo CD to contend with.

Warps D2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nmy6XQSDr0 - on M2 hardware that was never released.

[louisg]

I should also mention that Konami used the M2 in several arcade games like Total Vice: http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=575 . The graphics really do look pretty decent. I wonder how much they were planning on charging for it.

I'm often on the brink of hauling out the 32x just for the amazing port of Space Harrier

If I can be a detractor, I think the Saturn ports of that and AB2 are way smoother. There is the no-load-time appeal though, and that the sounds and music are all rendered using real FM hardware and not off a CD.

The 32X still has 2D games like Knuckles' Chaotix that have amazing animation. Nobody understood why the 32X was ever released; Sega apparently thought it could extend the life of the Genesis but they should've seen from the Sega CD that the west isn't interested in upgrades.

I always thought that Sega was trying to create a two-tiered next gen, where you'd have low end (32x) and your really expensive high end (Saturn). This might have made sense seeing how expensive the 3do and Saturn were compared to the previous generation. And there were the rumors that Saturn was originally going to be 32x-compatible (not sure if this holds water).

As for why there were very few polygon-based action games, they likely required too much memory to handle (think about how many objects have to be rendered). It's much easier to account for polygons when when you're on rails or when there's a fixed amount on-screen at all times.

Oh I was thinking on the PC/Amiga (as they got into the 20mhz-or-so range)-- I know the Genesis and SNES can't really handle polygon too well. I think it was more a matter of using polygon only when necessary and not really experimenting with them. Interestingly, the Amiga had some decently performing polygon games at only 7.25mhz. It did have some limited hardware acceleration for it though, and a whole lot of RAM compared to consoles.

[Ganelon]

A Total Vice with M2 motherboard is pretty easy to find. Good luck getting a gun set up for it though.

Anyway, there was an official 3DO 6-button controller released to use with Super Street Fighter II Turbo. The controller was distributed normally in Japan (cardboard-backed, which was pretty ghetto); I think it could be bought with a purchased from the US version of that game as well. It looks a bit funky but works pretty well for a pad.

As for the 32X's viability, if the US didn't buy into the "64-bit" homegrown cart-based Jaguar with a bundled in Cybermorph for $250, what are the chances a standalone expansion for $150 would have worked? In fact, I'm pretty sure by the time the 32X was released, the Jaguar was already discounted to the same price. That reasoning was certainly Sega's claim although it really didn't make sense to anyone.

[Acid King]

However the 3 button controller didn't pull off the right feel and AFAIK there was never a 3rd party controller.

I never had a problem with the controller, except for the awful d pad, for Samurai Shodown. I just used the 3 face buttons as slash and the two shoulders for kicks. There was 6 button pad released with Super Street Fighter.http://www.estarland.com/3DO.cat..product.33704.html

[Matsunaga]

Virtua Racing was great on 32x. The Mortal Kombat II port was pretty good as well. I enjoyed the Sega CD/32X titles Slam City and Supreme Warrior, They're kinda corny but were cool at the time.

[Acid King]

I loved my Jag back in the day. I used to have Jaguar shit all over my bedroom. I've been contemplating getting one again on the cheap The Iron Soldier games were a lot of fun and had great, primitive polygonal graphics. I loved how the enemies collapsed into cubes. The Jag and 3DO also had awesome versions of Wolfenstein 3d that looked much, much better than the PC original.

[louisg]

Yeah, I've really been enjoying Virtua Racing on the 32x, and just got Virtua Fighter. So far VF is a nice port but is a bit unresponsive feeling on occasion. Also, my 32x is acting really flakey and not powering on sometimes :/

Also spent some time today with Afterburner It's not bad, but not as slick as the Saturn ver. In both versions, I really like the checkpoint/continue system. It makes it more of a fun challenge than the arcade one in my opinion.

[Udderdude]

The best thing to come out of the Jaguar : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3VROCgKbVI

[null1024]

It might be one of the biggest busts ever, but the Apple Bandai Pippin console should at least be acknowledged for being ambitious. The thing had a 4X CD-ROM, 14.4kbps modem, S-Video output, and the controller had a freaking trackball. One of its peripherals even added tablet, keyboard and display capabilities in case you wanted to lug your Pippin around. Back in '95, my boss' portable PC was a desktop PC in a suitcase, so you could say the Pippin was very portable and packed quite a punch. Unfortunately for Apple, their idea of fun games was a bunch of poorly made edutainment titles, and they were charging a whopping $600 dollars for it. Back in '95!!!. Compare that to the price of the PS1, N64, and Jaguar, which were priced $300, $200, and $250 on release. The Pippin was such a failure that it was a distant 4th place to the Jaguar, and we all know how successful the Jaguar was.

You have to admit, $600 for an Apple computer [but in the shape of a console] wasn't bad if you think about it.
Although, the only thing that ever caught my eye about the thing was the port of Marathon to it.

[louisg]

I'd totally forgotten about the Pippin!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pippinpaddle.jpg ... that d-pad looks like diagonal-city.

http://web.mac.com/sebangulo/Pippin/Gam ... ction.html .. the game collection looks like it include a few non-educational games

[Slump]

I'd totally forgotten about the Pippin!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pippinpaddle.jpg ... that d-pad looks like diagonal-city.

http://web.mac.com/sebangulo/Pippin/Gam ... ction.html .. the game collection looks like it include a few non-educational games

I need that controller! Then when I throw it out of anger it will just boomerang right back at me.

[Ed Oscuro]

Anything that can do the Crusader: No Remorse and No Regret games. (No Remorse was on the 3DO at least.)

[Sonic R]

this thread is right on time!

for the past month or so, I have been enjoying playing game on the Atari Jaguar.  i currently have 10 game and am about to purchase s few more in upcoming weeks…

I first had Jaguar at launch, but sold it a year later as I was in high school at the time, and needed cash… at the time I had the Cybermorph pack-in, Dino Dudes, Trevor McFur, Raiden, Tempest 2000, and Cannon Fodder.

I then purchased another Jaguar with only Tempest 2000 in the year of 2002 at the Gibraltar trade center flea market in Taylor, Michigan for a price of $20 USD. shortly after I picked up Defender 2000 at the same place for a modest price of $10! this would be all I have until last month, when I pick up a lot of 5 games featuring Alien vs Predetor, wolfenstein 3D, Raiden, Trevor McFur, and Iron Soldier. I have also picked up Super Burnout, Missile Command, and Attack of the Mutant Penguins locally… and more games are to come.

The Jaguar is a taste to acquire for sure… but I am enjoying it very much!

for PC Engine Fan X ^_~
I have been researching Zero 5 and it is the next game I will bring home (along with Ruiner Pinball) the game looks great and I think I am in for punishment as I lack rapid fire Raiden could also use rapid fire for sure! I am also looking to get at Skyhammer soon too as it looks amazing! after that, I will aim for Protector and Breakout 2000

I love the Atari Jaguar and regret I didn't stand by it during it's hey day… I make it right now!

one game I am having most fun with:
Missile Command 3D
this game was made to work with a virtual reality head set but the VR mode is fine nonetheless… pure addiction to play VR mode of Missile Command 3D! 

[brentsg]

I most certainly got my money's worth out of my Jaguar. Defender /Tempest alone were worth it, but there were some other gems.

Attack of the Mutant Penguins
AvP
Cannon Fodder
Doom
Iron Soldier (and 2)
The pinball games
Power Drive Rally (love this)

I can't remember if the snowboarding game was good or not.

[No_not_like_Quake]

The only one of these machines I bought was the 32x, after playing Virtua Racing Deluxe at a shop. Quite the failure but had some decent games.

Came close to buying a 3do, which was probably the most impressive of these machines.

[tearsofash]

Picked up a 3DO and a 32x a little over a year ago. Also got a virtual boy a few years ago as well.

Most of the games I have on the 32x are platformers like Chaotix or Tempo. I haven't really seen any of the 3D it does except from youtube.

The 3DO however, some cool games on it were Lucienne's Quest, Killing Time, and D. Lucienne's Quest is some sort of weird 2.5D RPG that doesn't look bad, and doesn't look good. D is pretty silly. If you want something creepy-ish to show your friends the pinnacle of early 3D, I'd pick that.

[MX7]

D can also be found pretty cheaply for PS and Saturn. It's an essential purchase for anyone even remotely interested in videogames in a scholastic context. Even though it was critically panned, it was still massively influential, and though it was guilty of weaving in too much filmic influence, it's still an important milestone in the formative years of narrative in games.

[louisg]

D can also be found pretty cheaply for PS and Saturn. It's an essential purchase for anyone even remotely interested in videogames in a scholastic context. Even though it was critically panned, it was still massively influential, and though it was guilty of weaving in too much filmic influence, it's still an important milestone in the formative years of narrative in games.

I dunno, after all the 80s Infocom and Lucasarts games (including a few interesting experimental approaches to storytelling), I have trouble thinking of the mid-90s as formative for game storylines. Same with MMORPGs, online play, and open-ended gameplay: the mainstream's late to the party.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I most certainly got my money's worth out of my Jaguar. Defender /Tempest alone were worth it, but there were some other gems.

Attack of the Mutant Penguins
AvP
Cannon Fodder
Doom
Iron Soldier (and 2)
The pinball games
Power Drive Rally (love this)

I can't remember if the snowboarding game was good or not.

Yeah, that Jaguar snowboarding game was cool for it's time. The scaling effects are impressive.

Even Super Burnout, a motocycle racing game, on the Jaguar is cool with it's arcade-spec 60fps framerate.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~